The Average UK GA PPL?
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The Average UK GA PPL?
I have the impression that the following fits this but I could be completely wrong!
15 to 20 hours per year
VFR / Day only
Rents club aircraft or has a share in something relatively simple.
Anyone know of any official sources which would prove or disprove this? I remember reading some time ago that 15% of PPL’s go on to do an IMC, but that most do not keep it current for long.
Rod1
15 to 20 hours per year
VFR / Day only
Rents club aircraft or has a share in something relatively simple.
Anyone know of any official sources which would prove or disprove this? I remember reading some time ago that 15% of PPL’s go on to do an IMC, but that most do not keep it current for long.
Rod1
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15 to 20 hours per year
VFR / Day only
Rents club aircraft or has a share in something relatively simple.
Sounds plausible.
The problem with averages is not knowing the standard deviation
The average of 0 and 10 is 5 allright but everybody knows it's meaningless.
Most surveys of GA that purport to show how many tens of thousands of active aircraft are there like to lump in everything right down to parachutes with lawn mowers on the back, but in reality 99% of those people rarely venture too far away from the hilltop off which they launched (I know, they do it where I live). I wouldn't call that "GA".
You can dig out license issue etc stats on the CAA website. We have discussed this here before. There isn't data on there to work out the active PPL population; possibly it is missing intentionally. One can have a go, by making some reasonable assumptions about the average age at which people get their PPL (which is on the website) and the age at which they either pack it in, or fail their medical. There is some extra info in the latest CAA survey of GA.
Renters are sure to fly few hours on average - many do just the 12 min. I know a fair few that do close to zero; they need to fly with an examiner to renew every 2yrs. Group owners will be flying more. Outright owners will be flying the most; I do 150hrs/year and I know a fair few (who are not on the internet, BTW) that do 300+ hrs/year. Most IRs are owners. Most GA business flights are done by owners.
No matter how you look at it, there is a vast spread of activities which makes any generalisation hard.
Reading your posts elsewhere, you can build a supporting case for ultralights taking over GA and that may well happen but if it does it will kill off most GA airfields, which will confine flying to private strips, a bit like fishing going on from private fishing clubs with exclusive right for that lake and absolutely no new members unless vetted by the local masonic lodge. OK if you are into that sort of thing; very poor enroute visibility due to having one's nose buried up everybody else's back end
VFR / Day only
Rents club aircraft or has a share in something relatively simple.
Sounds plausible.
The problem with averages is not knowing the standard deviation
The average of 0 and 10 is 5 allright but everybody knows it's meaningless.Most surveys of GA that purport to show how many tens of thousands of active aircraft are there like to lump in everything right down to parachutes with lawn mowers on the back, but in reality 99% of those people rarely venture too far away from the hilltop off which they launched (I know, they do it where I live). I wouldn't call that "GA".
You can dig out license issue etc stats on the CAA website. We have discussed this here before. There isn't data on there to work out the active PPL population; possibly it is missing intentionally. One can have a go, by making some reasonable assumptions about the average age at which people get their PPL (which is on the website) and the age at which they either pack it in, or fail their medical. There is some extra info in the latest CAA survey of GA.
Renters are sure to fly few hours on average - many do just the 12 min. I know a fair few that do close to zero; they need to fly with an examiner to renew every 2yrs. Group owners will be flying more. Outright owners will be flying the most; I do 150hrs/year and I know a fair few (who are not on the internet, BTW) that do 300+ hrs/year. Most IRs are owners. Most GA business flights are done by owners.
No matter how you look at it, there is a vast spread of activities which makes any generalisation hard.
Reading your posts elsewhere, you can build a supporting case for ultralights taking over GA and that may well happen but if it does it will kill off most GA airfields, which will confine flying to private strips, a bit like fishing going on from private fishing clubs with exclusive right for that lake and absolutely no new members unless vetted by the local masonic lodge. OK if you are into that sort of thing; very poor enroute visibility due to having one's nose buried up everybody else's back end
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Does not fit me or virtually any of the PPL's I know......
We have our own pilot operated lights and so virtually everyone has a current night rating and half are IMC. The ones that are not are flying permit aircraft singing the praises and wishing they would at least allow night flight....
I own, I fly 350-500hrs per year, night and IR.
We have our own pilot operated lights and so virtually everyone has a current night rating and half are IMC. The ones that are not are flying permit aircraft singing the praises and wishing they would at least allow night flight....
I own, I fly 350-500hrs per year, night and IR.
500 hours a year at around £100 / hour equates to £50,000 in cold cash - nice one Bose. I would not say that anyone in the remotely average PPL bracket can write off that amount of cash for pleasure.
I would estimate that between £2,000 and £5,000 is what most PPL's budget annually for flying. Flying paragliders would give you a much higher hourly useage for the same budget as opposed to using the budget to stay current in an expensive SEP (or Twin) - group ownership of SEP's and Permit also give more utilisation hours for your £.
Hovering AND talking
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Where do you get £100 an hour from!
I would suggest that the average/typical/median/modal PPL does not own/operate their own aircraft. I also read somewhere (but I can't find the reference) that a not insignificant number of pilots pretty much give up flying once they have their PPL; presumably these should also be factored in.
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OK - £25,000 a year then. That is still £2,000 / month off the bottom end of your payslip or balance sheet after tax and you will most certainly be in a minority to be able to afford that as readily disposable income.
There is an incorrect perception that flying is a rich mans hobby and certainly if you can blow £2,000 / month on it then you fit the perception and I am sure that I am not alone in saying that I envy you and I don't think that you are typical.
I would say that I am pretty average - I earn a reasonable income but I have a mortgage and I have children both of my own and those of my new partner and I have child support payments not to mention the time committments associated with work and family. I reckon that 25 hours is about average because it enables pleasure flying to fit in financially and time wise with all of my other committments.
Ironically this year I may well achieve 40 hours but this will be the highest number of hours in one year that I have ever achieved and it is not cost this year which will limit me, just time to fit flying in around everything else.
There is an incorrect perception that flying is a rich mans hobby and certainly if you can blow £2,000 / month on it then you fit the perception and I am sure that I am not alone in saying that I envy you and I don't think that you are typical.
I would say that I am pretty average - I earn a reasonable income but I have a mortgage and I have children both of my own and those of my new partner and I have child support payments not to mention the time committments associated with work and family. I reckon that 25 hours is about average because it enables pleasure flying to fit in financially and time wise with all of my other committments.
Ironically this year I may well achieve 40 hours but this will be the highest number of hours in one year that I have ever achieved and it is not cost this year which will limit me, just time to fit flying in around everything else.
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you can build a supporting case for ultralights taking over GA and that may well happen but if it does it will kill off most GA airfields, which will confine flying to private strips
A 2 runway layout like Popham or a single runway layout like Old Sarum or Sandown uses up a lot less space.
Those who choose to fly a/c that need runway lighting, paved runways and approach aids will find their choices limited to developed a/d that have commercial traffic to help pay. Those who don't need such things will vote with their wallets and move to places with less grandiose ideas.
I'm no great fan of ultralights. They exist as a class only because the regulators have created the classification, some indeed are available in versions that fall into more than one class. If an aeroplane is airworthy it is airworthy. The airframe, the air through which it flies, and the powerplant that pulls it along don't behave differently depending on whether it is on a Permit or C of A, whether there's a built-up area underneath, whether it's dark outside or whether the pilot is flying by reference to instruments.
Having re-read that paragraph I'll rephrase it. I'm no great fan of paring away a structure simply to force it under an artificially imposed weight limit. While paring the weight down inevitably improves performance it also results in structures that may have little margin of strength above the absolute minimum called for.
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I fly a complex SEP as part of a non capital group, have a current night qualification and am just about to embark on an IMCR. I seem to average about 70 hours a year and only rarely land at the same place I have taken off from. I would dearly love to find the time/money to do a CPL/IR and then an FI course one day.
How average does that make me?
Nigel
How average does that make me?
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Nice post Mike,
I too am surprised at how as a nation generally we passionately support our own corners whilst also having a need to pigeon hole or 'name' something or someone who is different.
In aviation this manifests itself horrendously with bloody minded spats between the PFA and the BMAA and between supporters of Permit Vs Cof A aircraft. It is almost laughable really and we probably would laugh if the displayed mentality was clothed in an 'Irish' joke.
For goodness sake man has dreamed of flying like a bird as long as mankind has existed - for millions of years - and it is only in the last hundred years that this dream has been realised. Even now precious few of us fly and we ought to be grateful to have the privilige to do so. Why are we not bound together to maintain our flying priviliges? Why are we not accepting of others rights to fly in the way that suits them? Why are we not grateful that technology has advanced to such a degree that ultra light weight aircraft can now achieve the same performance at a fraction of the cost than forty years ago? Why do we not all join together and celebrate the joy of being able to fly in whatever manner is of our own choosing? Why are we not pooling our combined voices and talents to stop the CAA from regulating the owner/pilots out of existance in the same way that the manufacturing industry was regulated out of existance.
just a little off topic rant - sorry.
I too am surprised at how as a nation generally we passionately support our own corners whilst also having a need to pigeon hole or 'name' something or someone who is different.
In aviation this manifests itself horrendously with bloody minded spats between the PFA and the BMAA and between supporters of Permit Vs Cof A aircraft. It is almost laughable really and we probably would laugh if the displayed mentality was clothed in an 'Irish' joke.
For goodness sake man has dreamed of flying like a bird as long as mankind has existed - for millions of years - and it is only in the last hundred years that this dream has been realised. Even now precious few of us fly and we ought to be grateful to have the privilige to do so. Why are we not bound together to maintain our flying priviliges? Why are we not accepting of others rights to fly in the way that suits them? Why are we not grateful that technology has advanced to such a degree that ultra light weight aircraft can now achieve the same performance at a fraction of the cost than forty years ago? Why do we not all join together and celebrate the joy of being able to fly in whatever manner is of our own choosing? Why are we not pooling our combined voices and talents to stop the CAA from regulating the owner/pilots out of existance in the same way that the manufacturing industry was regulated out of existance.
just a little off topic rant - sorry.
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We all know that if you hold a licence you do as much flying as you can afford, both financially and due to time constraints.
Based on how much time you do fly, however, I am interested to know how that time is spent? Without finger-pointing, criticising or accusing, as this is not the point of my question, I would be interested to hear whether people who do around the minimum time per year to keep valid practise any kind of emergency drills/PFLs, EFATOs etc.?
I would also like to put this question out to those who do more hours per year aswell (bose etc.) - for example, does anybody discipline themselves to fly an hour in every x number of hours/months with another qualified pilot who can simulate emergency situations unheralded? If so, what kind of things do you practise? How many times? How much added value do you get out of such flights?
I know that revalidations probably include this type of stuff, but I think it would be really interesting to see different people's viewpoints on how often they practise these things over the course of the year. I ask because it's the kind of thing that isn't set in stone, and so there is no requirement (per se) to do anything of the kind, but clearly not doing so is potentially reckless, and lots of people (I hope) will have opinions on this.
Thoughts on this very much appreciated, just something I wonder about from time to time!
A38
Based on how much time you do fly, however, I am interested to know how that time is spent? Without finger-pointing, criticising or accusing, as this is not the point of my question, I would be interested to hear whether people who do around the minimum time per year to keep valid practise any kind of emergency drills/PFLs, EFATOs etc.?
I would also like to put this question out to those who do more hours per year aswell (bose etc.) - for example, does anybody discipline themselves to fly an hour in every x number of hours/months with another qualified pilot who can simulate emergency situations unheralded? If so, what kind of things do you practise? How many times? How much added value do you get out of such flights?
I know that revalidations probably include this type of stuff, but I think it would be really interesting to see different people's viewpoints on how often they practise these things over the course of the year. I ask because it's the kind of thing that isn't set in stone, and so there is no requirement (per se) to do anything of the kind, but clearly not doing so is potentially reckless, and lots of people (I hope) will have opinions on this.
Thoughts on this very much appreciated, just something I wonder about from time to time!
A38
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Nice post Tony.
OK, so to summarize. We have a number who agree with my suggestion and a number who say they are not themselves average, but nobody has proposed an alternative!
I am not average; I do 80 – 100 hours a year including small amounts of IMC and increasingly occasional Night. Aircraft owner, Beginnings of learning formation flying ex aerobatic pilot, mostly do long distance touring. My limiting factor is time rather than mony, I have a Wife and two kids!
Total flying budget £4500.
Rod1
OK, so to summarize. We have a number who agree with my suggestion and a number who say they are not themselves average, but nobody has proposed an alternative!
I am not average; I do 80 – 100 hours a year including small amounts of IMC and increasingly occasional Night. Aircraft owner, Beginnings of learning formation flying ex aerobatic pilot, mostly do long distance touring. My limiting factor is time rather than mony, I have a Wife and two kids!
Total flying budget £4500.
Rod1
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When I had a PFA Streak Shadow I very regularly practised all manner of emergencies and PFL's and felt hugely confident and comptant to deal with anything other than catastrophic airframe failure.
I am still getting to know my new steed (Eurostar) and so whilst I have practiced emergency drills I am nowhere near as confident as I would like to be. For example, I am unable to approach the stall comfortably in the Eurostar and always have a knot in my stomach as the ASI nudges downwards below 40 mph - whereas in the Streak I would fling it into the stall.
It helps that I choose to fly very simple aircraft with non complex systems and also choose not to venture out in anything other than good VFR conditions. My drills are simple and the chances of over stressing and forgetting vital actions is minimal
I am still getting to know my new steed (Eurostar) and so whilst I have practiced emergency drills I am nowhere near as confident as I would like to be. For example, I am unable to approach the stall comfortably in the Eurostar and always have a knot in my stomach as the ASI nudges downwards below 40 mph - whereas in the Streak I would fling it into the stall.
It helps that I choose to fly very simple aircraft with non complex systems and also choose not to venture out in anything other than good VFR conditions. My drills are simple and the chances of over stressing and forgetting vital actions is minimal
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OK, so to summarize. We have a number who agree with my suggestion and a number who say they are not themselves average, but nobody has proposed an alternative!
An alternative to what?
There are loads of different aircraft types. If you want to fly VFR in fair weather, the permit/ultralight stuff is fine. If you need to go places or need more utility value, then you need to push (much) further in terms of qualifications and training and budgets and get your IR and a decent IFR plane. If you like aeros you get into yet something else.
I am sorry to agree (but I do) with Mike Cross's suggestion that GA airfields will eventually close. Still, a lot depends on how successful the newcomers like DA40/DA42/SR22 are. They aren't cheap but they are much more capable (both legally and practically) and - contrary to what the low-end owners are preaching - there is plenty of money around. The fact that the GA scene is very poor in attracting affluent individuals right now does not mean this will always be the case. There is still time to turn things around: lots of GPS approaches into grass airfields without ATC, that would be a very good start in giving GA utility value.
An alternative to what?
There are loads of different aircraft types. If you want to fly VFR in fair weather, the permit/ultralight stuff is fine. If you need to go places or need more utility value, then you need to push (much) further in terms of qualifications and training and budgets and get your IR and a decent IFR plane. If you like aeros you get into yet something else.
I am sorry to agree (but I do) with Mike Cross's suggestion that GA airfields will eventually close. Still, a lot depends on how successful the newcomers like DA40/DA42/SR22 are. They aren't cheap but they are much more capable (both legally and practically) and - contrary to what the low-end owners are preaching - there is plenty of money around. The fact that the GA scene is very poor in attracting affluent individuals right now does not mean this will always be the case. There is still time to turn things around: lots of GPS approaches into grass airfields without ATC, that would be a very good start in giving GA utility value.
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IO540
You are right; it was not a very clear post.
I suggested the average PPL would do;
15 to 20 hours per year
VFR / Day only
Rents club aircraft or has a share in something relatively simple.
No alternatives have been proposed, and quite a few agree so I assume I was reasonably close.
Rod1
You are right; it was not a very clear post.
I suggested the average PPL would do;
15 to 20 hours per year
VFR / Day only
Rents club aircraft or has a share in something relatively simple.
No alternatives have been proposed, and quite a few agree so I assume I was reasonably close.
Rod1
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Rod1
I fail to see what you are trying to prove here.
What is to be gained by establishing some kind of average value for these parameters?
As I have said, there is a wide range of flying going on, and working out an average is meaningless.
If anything it would be utterly depressing. I mean, how long do you think it will be before a 15 hour/year pilot renting the typical piece of flying scrap metal is going to say to himself (literally or subconsciously) :
"this hobby is such a huge hassle, it costs me so much money to do the 15hrs, I get so little in return for it, I have such poor currency that I can't go anywhere, nobody but absolute anoraks wants to fly with me in the piece of crap that I can get, a lot of people politely refuse to fly with me because they are horrified at going up with a 15hr pilot (**), there is close to zero crumpet hanging around this scene AND/OR my wife/gf can't see the point of me doing this since I never take her anywhere nice... I might just chuck it in and put the £1500 towards an upmarket gym membership and an upmarket tennis club membership (both of which will provide much better scenery)"
??
One has to be positive to move forward in this (or any other) business. Yes most PPLs fly few hours and are as tight as the proverbial but if one believes that will never change, where will that get us? Light/Permit aircraft is a good answer for many but the ownership costs are perhaps half of CofA and that isn't enough of a difference to make a big difference, in a game that requires this much long term commitment. The key is in improving what people get out of it. If the "scene" is crap (like it is in so many respects) then even £5/hour flying won't interest very many.
(**) actual reaction today, among a meeting of a number of non-flyers asking me the minimum and likely average PPL hours
I fail to see what you are trying to prove here.
What is to be gained by establishing some kind of average value for these parameters?
As I have said, there is a wide range of flying going on, and working out an average is meaningless.
If anything it would be utterly depressing. I mean, how long do you think it will be before a 15 hour/year pilot renting the typical piece of flying scrap metal is going to say to himself (literally or subconsciously) :
"this hobby is such a huge hassle, it costs me so much money to do the 15hrs, I get so little in return for it, I have such poor currency that I can't go anywhere, nobody but absolute anoraks wants to fly with me in the piece of crap that I can get, a lot of people politely refuse to fly with me because they are horrified at going up with a 15hr pilot (**), there is close to zero crumpet hanging around this scene AND/OR my wife/gf can't see the point of me doing this since I never take her anywhere nice... I might just chuck it in and put the £1500 towards an upmarket gym membership and an upmarket tennis club membership (both of which will provide much better scenery)"
??
One has to be positive to move forward in this (or any other) business. Yes most PPLs fly few hours and are as tight as the proverbial but if one believes that will never change, where will that get us? Light/Permit aircraft is a good answer for many but the ownership costs are perhaps half of CofA and that isn't enough of a difference to make a big difference, in a game that requires this much long term commitment. The key is in improving what people get out of it. If the "scene" is crap (like it is in so many respects) then even £5/hour flying won't interest very many.
(**) actual reaction today, among a meeting of a number of non-flyers asking me the minimum and likely average PPL hours
Firstly can we get rid of this horrible foreign term "ultralight", it doesn't exist anywhere in UK aviation, and outside the UK it means something different in pretty much every country that you visit.
Secondly, Mike - sorry but I think that you are oversimplifying things enormously. Aviation has huge numbers of distinctions,e.g.
Amateur built PtF
Historic PtF
Type Approved PtF
Private CofA
Public CofA
(and these last two can be divided into normal, utility and often aerobatic)
Then we have more divisions:
Microlight
VLA
Up to 2000lb (PFA)
Up to 5,700 kg (part 23)
Up to 7,000 kg (light)
And that's just single engine.
Then we have licencing:
NPPL (PPC, M, SEP, TMG)
ICAO non-JAR PPL
JAR-PPL
BCPL (any of those left)
CPL
fATPL
ATPL
Then we can rate then: IMC, night, IR, ME, Tailwheel, VP, complex....
All of these assorted categories get treated differently. Whilst one could sensibly argue that the whole thing is far too damned complicated (and I'd almost certainly agree with you), the general approach is that the more potential for public/passenger risk, the greater the regulation.
Microlights at one end then (and I'd agree that they are still just another aeroplane) are at the lowest end of speed/energy/mass/pax/overflight permissions, and so they get the lightest touch treatment. Fair enough, but that's no reason to feel aggrieved at their existence, any more than at Bose-X's enormous number of hours each year - he pays for it in cash, regular tests, and so-on.
Me?, I'm just not flying enough this year and am not a typical anything, but usually manage 70-100 hours each year.
G
Secondly, Mike - sorry but I think that you are oversimplifying things enormously. Aviation has huge numbers of distinctions,e.g.
Amateur built PtF
Historic PtF
Type Approved PtF
Private CofA
Public CofA
(and these last two can be divided into normal, utility and often aerobatic)
Then we have more divisions:
Microlight
VLA
Up to 2000lb (PFA)
Up to 5,700 kg (part 23)
Up to 7,000 kg (light)
And that's just single engine.
Then we have licencing:
NPPL (PPC, M, SEP, TMG)
ICAO non-JAR PPL
JAR-PPL
BCPL (any of those left)
CPL
fATPL
ATPL
Then we can rate then: IMC, night, IR, ME, Tailwheel, VP, complex....
All of these assorted categories get treated differently. Whilst one could sensibly argue that the whole thing is far too damned complicated (and I'd almost certainly agree with you), the general approach is that the more potential for public/passenger risk, the greater the regulation.
Microlights at one end then (and I'd agree that they are still just another aeroplane) are at the lowest end of speed/energy/mass/pax/overflight permissions, and so they get the lightest touch treatment. Fair enough, but that's no reason to feel aggrieved at their existence, any more than at Bose-X's enormous number of hours each year - he pays for it in cash, regular tests, and so-on.
Me?, I'm just not flying enough this year and am not a typical anything, but usually manage 70-100 hours each year.
G
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Had my PPL since 2001 and have averaged 50 - 60 hours per year. Probably just over half of my annual hours are glider towing, the other half I've had to pay for(member of a 172 syndicate until just recently).