Class Rating Instructor
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
Ho hum........... And anyway I could get paid if I want to, I just don't want to be an hour building FI or be paid. Mainly because I don't need hours and because I dont want to teach ab initio or work as an FI. I just want to put something back into flying for free.
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From: United Kingdom
....but the giving of aerobatic instruction formally does require an instructor qualification (unless I'm mistaken).
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From: mids
I don't think it will bother wannbie FI's.
The one hour with an experenced PPL could either be a great joy if you got on with them or a complete pain in the backside. If they owed there own plane even if you didn't sign thier log book there was nothing stopping them going out and flying 10 mins later.
Its the clubs and schools which will loose quite a bit of revenue.
4 groups of 5 people. 20 Peoples members fee's call it 100 quid per year over 3 years. 30 hours flying at 30 quid an hour in your own aircraft or 130 quid an hour in the schools. 30 * 20 quid for signing the ratings page.
So thats for own plane use
6000
900
600
7.5k for the 3 years the ratings are vaild.
With school plane use an extra 3 k
10.5K
Thats only an extra £3.5 per hour based on 50 hours per year per person
The rating only costs 1500 quid for the CRI and 3000 for the CRE. And if you run the plane as a ltd company it works out even less if you put it through the books. You will proberly save more than that because your insurance will drop because there is an instructor in the group. No overheads of maintaining a building to brief in either. And this doesn't count any tests because some one has forgot and let there SEP lapse.
The one hour with an experenced PPL could either be a great joy if you got on with them or a complete pain in the backside. If they owed there own plane even if you didn't sign thier log book there was nothing stopping them going out and flying 10 mins later.
Its the clubs and schools which will loose quite a bit of revenue.
4 groups of 5 people. 20 Peoples members fee's call it 100 quid per year over 3 years. 30 hours flying at 30 quid an hour in your own aircraft or 130 quid an hour in the schools. 30 * 20 quid for signing the ratings page.
So thats for own plane use
6000
900
600
7.5k for the 3 years the ratings are vaild.
With school plane use an extra 3 k
10.5K
Thats only an extra £3.5 per hour based on 50 hours per year per person
The rating only costs 1500 quid for the CRI and 3000 for the CRE. And if you run the plane as a ltd company it works out even less if you put it through the books. You will proberly save more than that because your insurance will drop because there is an instructor in the group. No overheads of maintaining a building to brief in either. And this doesn't count any tests because some one has forgot and let there SEP lapse.
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From: S Warwickshire
You are mistaken - an instructional qualification is required only to give instruction for a licence or rating or qualification in the licence (ANO Article 36). Since there is no such thing as an aerobatic rating and no aerobatic qualification can be included in a JAA licence, no instructor qualification is required. Interestingly, the privilege to teach aerobatics is not included in any JAA instructional qualification.
The exemption that allows a PPL to do aerial work consisting of flight training, is applicable if they hold an instructor's qualification.
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From: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
I did it originally with the thought in mind of offering checkouts and 2-year flight reviews to members of our group, as we had recently lost one of our instructors.
Actually, I've been mostly engaged flying with fellow group members as a sort of back-up which proved its worth recently.
Like other posters here, I did it as an alternative to the FI, to begin with anyway, as at my stage in life I don't need the hours but I do need another dimension to my flying.
Also, as others have said, it is a most excellent course. It took me 4 days with another 1/2 day for the test.
Cheers,
TheOddOne
Thread Starter
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
In answer to another question the CRI rating can be done at Ontrack Aviation, Wellesbourne. Cost is for the CRI (SE) is £1500 in the school aircraft and negotiable in your own. I am doing the CRI (SE) in my Cessna and the ME in the Sennecca.
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From: Dublin
Just to correct a slight error earlier in this thread.
In order to get a CRI(SPA) you need "300 hours flight time as a pilot of aeroplanes" and not 300 hours P1 time.
I'll make that sometime in the coming months
In order to get a CRI(SPA) you need "300 hours flight time as a pilot of aeroplanes" and not 300 hours P1 time.
I'll make that sometime in the coming months
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You are mistaken - an instructional qualification is required only to give instruction for a licence or rating or qualification in the licence (ANO Article 36). Since there is no such thing as an aerobatic rating and no aerobatic qualification can be included in a JAA licence, no instructor qualification is required. Interestingly, the privilege to teach aerobatics is not included in any JAA instructional qualification.
But reading this thread, it seems I can do CRI course, then teach Pitts/Extra conversions, and aeros to qualified pilots????
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From: S Warwickshire
I stand corrected. A quick look at the dear old ANO shows that aerial work is only applicable to remunerated flights (Art.157) and an instructor's rating is only required for instructing for licences and ratings (art.36).
But the restriction on my FI(A) says "no aerobatics". Does this mean that, if I hadn't got an FI, that I could teach aerobatics? Or does it mean that I can teach them if not logging the hours P1; effectively as a passenger?
But the restriction on my FI(A) says "no aerobatics". Does this mean that, if I hadn't got an FI, that I could teach aerobatics? Or does it mean that I can teach them if not logging the hours P1; effectively as a passenger?
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From: mids
I don't think anyone can comment on what you ask Mark.There hasn't been a test case yet.
If nothing goes wrong your in the clear. If something however small goes wrong you are looking at the CAA getting the legals bods out to get you.
Flyingcircusace i wouldn't take anything on this thread as spoke. The caa don't know what they are doing with this rating. Its been forced on them from JAR-FCL 1 the CAA people won't have a clue what your on about and won't have a clue what the FCL really says. You will just get the usuall pish of read lasors. Which i might add will more than likely get updated due to this thread stating say CRI must do xyz can't do XYZ.
It really is a license to do what you want as long as you don't teach for the issue of PPL's or intial ratings. There is no monitoring, no cfi moaning, you are set free after your rating issue.
If nothing goes wrong your in the clear. If something however small goes wrong you are looking at the CAA getting the legals bods out to get you.
Flyingcircusace i wouldn't take anything on this thread as spoke. The caa don't know what they are doing with this rating. Its been forced on them from JAR-FCL 1 the CAA people won't have a clue what your on about and won't have a clue what the FCL really says. You will just get the usuall pish of read lasors. Which i might add will more than likely get updated due to this thread stating say CRI must do xyz can't do XYZ.
It really is a license to do what you want as long as you don't teach for the issue of PPL's or intial ratings. There is no monitoring, no cfi moaning, you are set free after your rating issue.
Last edited by tescoapp; 11th November 2006 at 13:22. Reason: remove ramblings
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From: EuroGA.org
What an interesting thread. I would have to read it several times to get my head around it though
If I understand this correctly, a CRI allows you to instruct, for free, but not for anything towards a PPL or towards an IMCR or IR. All one can do is "personal improvement" stuff. Is that right?
bose-x
I just want to put something back into flying for free
This is very commendable, and I would very much like to do the same. But I know that if I tried that where I am, I would find my tyres let down - that's if I am lucky.... I have to be extremely careful even taking somebody with me who just happens to be a PPL student at a local school.
If I understand this correctly, a CRI allows you to instruct, for free, but not for anything towards a PPL or towards an IMCR or IR. All one can do is "personal improvement" stuff. Is that right?
bose-x
I just want to put something back into flying for free
This is very commendable, and I would very much like to do the same. But I know that if I tried that where I am, I would find my tyres let down - that's if I am lucky.... I have to be extremely careful even taking somebody with me who just happens to be a PPL student at a local school.
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From: United Kingdom
Mark 1 - According to JAR-FCL 1.330, the privileges of an FI(A) are to conduct flight instruction for a PPL(A), CPL(A), night flying, IR(A), single-engine, multi-pilot type or class rating and FI rating (also, in the UK, the IMC rating). None of these courses, not even the FI(A) course, includes aerobatics in the syllabus. Therefore, your FI(A) rating does not include the privilege of conducting aerobatic instruction in the first place, so how can the CAA seek to prevent you from exercising a privilege of the rating that never existed??? The 'no aerobatics' entry in the licence is quite meaningless - you can teach aerobatics without exercising the privileges of your FI(A) rating and, if you are not using the rating, the restriction to it can not apply.
The fact is that instruction in aerobatics is nothing whatever to do with the FI(A), CRI(A) or any other instructional qualification. Anyone with a pilot's licence can conduct aerobatic instruction, although to receive remuneration it must be a professional licence. Bear in mind, Flyingcircusace, that when you call the CAA to ask these questions, provided that you make it through the automated 'system', you will probably be speaking to someone who knows nothing about the subject and is capable only of parrotting the contents of LASORS.
The fact is that instruction in aerobatics is nothing whatever to do with the FI(A), CRI(A) or any other instructional qualification. Anyone with a pilot's licence can conduct aerobatic instruction, although to receive remuneration it must be a professional licence. Bear in mind, Flyingcircusace, that when you call the CAA to ask these questions, provided that you make it through the automated 'system', you will probably be speaking to someone who knows nothing about the subject and is capable only of parrotting the contents of LASORS.
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I guess the aerobatic FI rating allows you to train and issue the AOPA certificate???
As I understand it......
As a commercial pilot, I can just start teaching aerobatics, for financial reward to qualified pilots. If I do the CRI I can teach tailwheel conversions, again for money. But without a FI rating I cannot take "Trial flights" (Punters for 20 min aero trip)
Flycirc
As I understand it......
As a commercial pilot, I can just start teaching aerobatics, for financial reward to qualified pilots. If I do the CRI I can teach tailwheel conversions, again for money. But without a FI rating I cannot take "Trial flights" (Punters for 20 min aero trip)
Flycirc
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From: mids
The CRI allows you to instruct. As per FCL-1. Trial flights arn't really trial flights its a set exercise in the PPL course and as such counts towards the issue of a PPL.
The 20mins aero trip to none PPL holders is a bit suspect anyway because the training, which all trial flights are ment to be, isn't towards any known exercise in the PPL. It could be argued then that the flight is then a pleasure flight which will then require an AOC and all the other trimmings of a commercial operation.
The license which it is attached to allows you to charge or not as the case maybe.
There will also be issues with logging the flights as only one person can be PIC and the other can't log dual if tere isn't a Instructor on board of some type.
IO540 its abit more than personal improvment. And your case of the possibilty of getting your tyres let down. Is I suspect a very valid point. A couple of CRI's and a CRE at a large GA field with access to a public cat aircraft have the potential to strip a sizable chunk of the easy money from the local flying school. Especially if the CFI thinks they are the local flying standards police they won't like it at all.
Its actually quite an unfair setup to the school who have to pay for inspections, rent buildings maintain public liability insurance etc
The 20mins aero trip to none PPL holders is a bit suspect anyway because the training, which all trial flights are ment to be, isn't towards any known exercise in the PPL. It could be argued then that the flight is then a pleasure flight which will then require an AOC and all the other trimmings of a commercial operation.
The license which it is attached to allows you to charge or not as the case maybe.
There will also be issues with logging the flights as only one person can be PIC and the other can't log dual if tere isn't a Instructor on board of some type.
IO540 its abit more than personal improvment. And your case of the possibilty of getting your tyres let down. Is I suspect a very valid point. A couple of CRI's and a CRE at a large GA field with access to a public cat aircraft have the potential to strip a sizable chunk of the easy money from the local flying school. Especially if the CFI thinks they are the local flying standards police they won't like it at all.
Its actually quite an unfair setup to the school who have to pay for inspections, rent buildings maintain public liability insurance etc
Last edited by tescoapp; 11th November 2006 at 13:48.
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
The 20mins aero trip to none PPL holders is a bit suspect anyway because the training, which all trial flights are ment to be, isn't towards any known exercise in the PPL. It could be argued then that the flight is then a pleasure flight which will then require an AOC and all the other trimmings of a commercial operation.
Is there a teaching element to Ex 3, the air experience flight? I thought this was mean to be "sit back, relax, and get used to being in a light aircraft" flight without the pressure of having to learn anything. Playing with the controls optional as thats covered in Ex 4 onwards.