Civvy Circuit Size
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at Leicster if you tunr downwind before 1000ft on 28 you will be politly not asked to visit again. A lot of places have restrictions for noise abatement.
I agree circuits are to big, one of my pet hates is the bomber circuit. I never leave the airfield perimiter in my 152 but still seem to end up on the outside of dubtrub! But a couple more hours practice and a might be able to cut inside him as a I am sure it is possible to fly a circuit without leaving the airspace above the runway...........
I agree circuits are to big, one of my pet hates is the bomber circuit. I never leave the airfield perimiter in my 152 but still seem to end up on the outside of dubtrub! But a couple more hours practice and a might be able to cut inside him as a I am sure it is possible to fly a circuit without leaving the airspace above the runway...........
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When people extend downwind or crosswind it has a horrible knock on effect...especially if its a busy day.
People just need to learn some circuit ettiquette and GO AROUND rather than extend here there and everywhere (and be taught properly).
Nice to see I'm not the only one who has the gripe which can often spoil a fab sortie!
People just need to learn some circuit ettiquette and GO AROUND rather than extend here there and everywhere (and be taught properly).
Nice to see I'm not the only one who has the gripe which can often spoil a fab sortie!
A few thoughts about circuits; if everyone played the` game`correctly,you should be able to have 4 a/c of similar characteristics( speed d/w, and on app/t/o) operating comfortably;ie 1 on t/o, 1 upwind, 1 d/w, 1 base/finals( 5 at a push with 1 just d/w and another `about` base turn); any more, and it gets too complex.IF, everyone pays attention with ears and eyes they should be able to circulate in a responsible manner. The rule is; if you are catching the a/c ahead you must only extend `Upwind`to make spacing, never d/wind. You should use timing from abeam your threshold( inset or normal) of 15 secs +- 1sec/5kts head/tail wind component and then turn base / or, never further than 4/8 o`clock position(right/left circuits).
Where is this `golden ` rule that says you must turn x-wind at 500` ? Why not climb ahead to 700` before turning ? It will allow one to turn, level off and then turn d/w in a proper position,without having to climb when d/w..
Most light a/c that I have airtested for CAA CofA renewals are woefully lacking in climb performance against the Flight Manual,and if you start turning at `500`ft, then you lose a lot of ground before reaching 1000`, thus extending/widening the circuit. TRY IT AND SEE........Syc.
Where is this `golden ` rule that says you must turn x-wind at 500` ? Why not climb ahead to 700` before turning ? It will allow one to turn, level off and then turn d/w in a proper position,without having to climb when d/w..
Most light a/c that I have airtested for CAA CofA renewals are woefully lacking in climb performance against the Flight Manual,and if you start turning at `500`ft, then you lose a lot of ground before reaching 1000`, thus extending/widening the circuit. TRY IT AND SEE........Syc.
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Certainly if you have a decent headwind, it is sometimes very important not to turn at 500', turning at 700' is often a very sensible thing to do, buit ther is no problem with not quite being at 1000' before reaching downwind in most places.
Noise abatement issues usually kybosh most discussions about "standard" circuit patterns, you just have to do your best to follow the individual airfield patterns.
Noise abatement issues usually kybosh most discussions about "standard" circuit patterns, you just have to do your best to follow the individual airfield patterns.
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I'm not saying my base is quite often busy but here is the RT between me and ATC.
"G- _ _ _ _ downwind to land"
"G- _ _ _ _ your are number 7 following DA40"
At this point I was saying like "S _ _ T where are they all"
So I just said "Have traffic in sight, G - _ _ _ _ " which I did cos I could see the one in front, but we then had a cross country flight before I got to do my "Finals to land".
"G- _ _ _ _ downwind to land"
"G- _ _ _ _ your are number 7 following DA40"
At this point I was saying like "S _ _ T where are they all"
So I just said "Have traffic in sight, G - _ _ _ _ " which I did cos I could see the one in front, but we then had a cross country flight before I got to do my "Finals to land".
Avoid imitations
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"G- _ _ _ _ your are number 7 following DA40"
I would have commented that only the Red Arrows put seven on the same downwind leg...
I would have commented that only the Red Arrows put seven on the same downwind leg...
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If anyone knows Biggin particularly well, I was doing circuits on 21, only to be asked to follow someone who was downwind. It turned out he had 'extended' crosswind and was actually flying downwind almost over Croydon......
Biggin is usually a bit of 'you are number 5 / 6' though...
Biggin is usually a bit of 'you are number 5 / 6' though...
So, here's a question for the house.
You're in the circuit, established crosswind or downwind, and the aircraft in front has extended sooooooo far in front of you that you need to get the chart out since you've either lost, or will lose, sight of the runway (and let's face it, that's only a slight exaggeration, if at-all).
What is the most effective way of pointing this out to the world at large, without cluttering up RT unnecessarily or affecting safety.
Mine would be a call to the tower along the lines of "negative, I am No.1, aircraft in front has left the circuit", but is there a better way? (Did a variation on this at a certain airfield in Northants airfield not long ago, turned out the aircraft in front was the local school CFI
).
G
You're in the circuit, established crosswind or downwind, and the aircraft in front has extended sooooooo far in front of you that you need to get the chart out since you've either lost, or will lose, sight of the runway (and let's face it, that's only a slight exaggeration, if at-all).
What is the most effective way of pointing this out to the world at large, without cluttering up RT unnecessarily or affecting safety.
Mine would be a call to the tower along the lines of "negative, I am No.1, aircraft in front has left the circuit", but is there a better way? (Did a variation on this at a certain airfield in Northants airfield not long ago, turned out the aircraft in front was the local school CFI
).G
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What is the most effective way of pointing this out to the world at large
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Laundryman - think we fly from the same place - and I've had a number 7 as well AFTER being held in the local for rejoin!
I actually listened to the RT of someone ending up being reported for landing at 7:01pm - 1 minute after the airfield closes - due to having to fly a large circuit following a DA. Now, if you're going to push boundaries, then sometimes things will go wrong and you have to live with the consequences, but it's an example of how a large circuit could have cost someone dearly - ATC were asking him if he was going to divert to Luton!
I actually listened to the RT of someone ending up being reported for landing at 7:01pm - 1 minute after the airfield closes - due to having to fly a large circuit following a DA. Now, if you're going to push boundaries, then sometimes things will go wrong and you have to live with the consequences, but it's an example of how a large circuit could have cost someone dearly - ATC were asking him if he was going to divert to Luton!
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Dwshimoda, I think you're right, luckily the people in ATC are very good there and I don't think I would ever consider some of the actions muted earlier in this forum like cutting in tight, that would increase everybody's stress level and make me very unpopular with those lovely people in the tower. I do have a problem with
C _ _ _ _ r who seem to be the main perpetrators in the circuits via Bedford and the head down flying, forcing me to fly somewhere I had no intention going.
C _ _ _ _ r who seem to be the main perpetrators in the circuits via Bedford and the head down flying, forcing me to fly somewhere I had no intention going.
Well there are two issues there, one is the time, the other is the principle.
I'm more interested in the principle than the actual time, the British record for the time to fly 100 circuits I think worked out at 40 seconds a go! So, let's say 4 minutes, whatever.
I'm more interested in the principle than the actual time, the British record for the time to fly 100 circuits I think worked out at 40 seconds a go! So, let's say 4 minutes, whatever.
Of course I didn't time the "No 2 to the Gulfstream V, caution wake vortex recommended spacing is 6 miles" one.
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I like my local field. Arriving downwind, and told I'm number 3: sometimes, when I get to abeam the runway end with two bombers in front, tower says "can you turn final from there?" "Affirm" "Clear to final number 1".
Usually, I'm on the apron and shutting down before the next one lands.
I'm not in DubTrub's or Monocock's league, but I'm in the same club.
Usually, I'm on the apron and shutting down before the next one lands.
I'm not in DubTrub's or Monocock's league, but I'm in the same club.
At Redhill, you seem to be an AWFUL long way from the airfield on the 'standard' circuit, both downwind and on base leg, but as others have said, this is dictated by noise abatement requirements rather than a delibaerate wide circuit.
When training in Air Cadet gliders, I was taught to fly '45 deg' circuits ie you maintain a 45 deg angle between the aircraft and the airfield boundary at all times. This gives you an odd shaped circuit of course, because as you descend down wind, you fly closer and closer to the airfield, but it ensures you can always land back on the airfield. You also got a b......ing if you went too far beyond the downwind boundary!
When training in Air Cadet gliders, I was taught to fly '45 deg' circuits ie you maintain a 45 deg angle between the aircraft and the airfield boundary at all times. This gives you an odd shaped circuit of course, because as you descend down wind, you fly closer and closer to the airfield, but it ensures you can always land back on the airfield. You also got a b......ing if you went too far beyond the downwind boundary!