Quitting Flying
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(1) If we are talking about setting up a slick training/hire operation:
Easy: find a suitable airfield, with a reasonably affluent catchment area, from which you can evict the existing school/club(s) and get somebody to do it properly. I can think of a number of locations but the "eviction" bit is impossible - one would have to wait for the existing ops to go bust which is likely to take a few years.
So, nothing is going to change.
The CAA will continue to discourage GPS use and mandate the ancient WW1 syllabus with the slide rule (which makes 95% of potential customers living in the 21st century take the micky and walk back out).
Even with a brand new slick operation it will be hard to avoid employing the same "60hrs in a C150 is perfectly OK, young chappy" types to run the show.
The trouble is that most punters already in the business are so skint that they will rent a piece of junk for £80/hr in preference to something better for £90/hr.
Also (in the face of competition) the junk operator can just drop his rates below the competition for months or years (exhausting his engine funds but that won't be a problem for a good while) making it awfully hard for somebody to compete.
There are lots of little things we have gone over and those could be done. But no matter how one looks at it, they are conditional on finding people who can actually afford this leisure activity.
(2) If we are talking about some PPLs getting their hands on decent planes for going places:
I think most people agree that self fly hire is the quickest way to oblivion, so shared ownership has to be THE avenue to explore.
It isn't hard for a bunch of keen PPLs to form a group around a decent plane, and even perhaps rent it out (to very carefully picked people) on top of that. One can get something pretty good for say £80k, and with 10 members that's "just" £8k each. That's no more than the average total spend on a PPL, and well within the means of anyone who has enough disposable income to maintain reasonable currency.
Easy: find a suitable airfield, with a reasonably affluent catchment area, from which you can evict the existing school/club(s) and get somebody to do it properly. I can think of a number of locations but the "eviction" bit is impossible - one would have to wait for the existing ops to go bust which is likely to take a few years.
So, nothing is going to change.
The CAA will continue to discourage GPS use and mandate the ancient WW1 syllabus with the slide rule (which makes 95% of potential customers living in the 21st century take the micky and walk back out).
Even with a brand new slick operation it will be hard to avoid employing the same "60hrs in a C150 is perfectly OK, young chappy" types to run the show.
The trouble is that most punters already in the business are so skint that they will rent a piece of junk for £80/hr in preference to something better for £90/hr.
Also (in the face of competition) the junk operator can just drop his rates below the competition for months or years (exhausting his engine funds but that won't be a problem for a good while) making it awfully hard for somebody to compete.
There are lots of little things we have gone over and those could be done. But no matter how one looks at it, they are conditional on finding people who can actually afford this leisure activity.
(2) If we are talking about some PPLs getting their hands on decent planes for going places:
I think most people agree that self fly hire is the quickest way to oblivion, so shared ownership has to be THE avenue to explore.
It isn't hard for a bunch of keen PPLs to form a group around a decent plane, and even perhaps rent it out (to very carefully picked people) on top of that. One can get something pretty good for say £80k, and with 10 members that's "just" £8k each. That's no more than the average total spend on a PPL, and well within the means of anyone who has enough disposable income to maintain reasonable currency.
The Original Whirly
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IO540,
While some of your ideas are good, one thing you seem to forget is that people are different, and that applies to pilots too. I'd far rather spend my £8000 on half a Luscombe or Jodel, than a tenth of some fancy touring aircraft. I don't want to be in a group of ten; I want availability when I want it, and I like old aircraft. I have a GPS and don't use it, because I keep forgetting how to, and I find map and compass nav easy and fun. And I happen to know I'm not unique. And of the non-pilot friends I take flying, there are as many who are like me as like you.
There's lots we can do as individuals. I have resolved that next time I go to the airfield to fly alone, I'll try very hard to find someone there who'd like to go with me. And I'll talk to the students and non-pilots who are around, and the families who've dropped in for coffee and to look at aircraft.
I KNOW that sort of thing works. Very soon after I started instructing, the school I worked for realised that a disproportionate number of my trial lessons were coming back for more? Why? I'm not the world's best pilot, or greatest instructor. But what I can do is pass on my own enthusiasm, and explain to people that:
a) They CAN do it
b) It's not all that expensive; look at how much you'll be putting in per week, not what it'll cost overall - a coffee a day costs huge amounts over a year, if you look at it that way.
c) They CAN pass exams, even if they're old or young or non-technical or whatever.
d) It IS worth it.
I didn't need my FI training to be able to do any of that. All I needed was enthusiasm for flying and an interest in people. Everybody reading this thread has those, or they wouldn't be reading this.
The schools aren't great, the costs are horrible, the rules and regulations are ridiculous - we know all that, and we can't change it, or not easily. But people get turned on to flying by other people. So there is actually quite a lot we can do.
And next time we have a Private Flying fly-in, and we have at least a couple every year, see who you can bring with you. Explain everthing to your passengers, give them the map, tell them what you're doing, and show them that you're human, not the great infallible super-pilot. So that they know that they could do it too.
Big oaks from little acorns grow, and ripples spread outwards, and all that kind of stuff.
While some of your ideas are good, one thing you seem to forget is that people are different, and that applies to pilots too. I'd far rather spend my £8000 on half a Luscombe or Jodel, than a tenth of some fancy touring aircraft. I don't want to be in a group of ten; I want availability when I want it, and I like old aircraft. I have a GPS and don't use it, because I keep forgetting how to, and I find map and compass nav easy and fun. And I happen to know I'm not unique. And of the non-pilot friends I take flying, there are as many who are like me as like you.
There's lots we can do as individuals. I have resolved that next time I go to the airfield to fly alone, I'll try very hard to find someone there who'd like to go with me. And I'll talk to the students and non-pilots who are around, and the families who've dropped in for coffee and to look at aircraft.
I KNOW that sort of thing works. Very soon after I started instructing, the school I worked for realised that a disproportionate number of my trial lessons were coming back for more? Why? I'm not the world's best pilot, or greatest instructor. But what I can do is pass on my own enthusiasm, and explain to people that:
a) They CAN do it
b) It's not all that expensive; look at how much you'll be putting in per week, not what it'll cost overall - a coffee a day costs huge amounts over a year, if you look at it that way.
c) They CAN pass exams, even if they're old or young or non-technical or whatever.
d) It IS worth it.
I didn't need my FI training to be able to do any of that. All I needed was enthusiasm for flying and an interest in people. Everybody reading this thread has those, or they wouldn't be reading this.
The schools aren't great, the costs are horrible, the rules and regulations are ridiculous - we know all that, and we can't change it, or not easily. But people get turned on to flying by other people. So there is actually quite a lot we can do.
And next time we have a Private Flying fly-in, and we have at least a couple every year, see who you can bring with you. Explain everthing to your passengers, give them the map, tell them what you're doing, and show them that you're human, not the great infallible super-pilot. So that they know that they could do it too.
Big oaks from little acorns grow, and ripples spread outwards, and all that kind of stuff.
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what are we going to do about it
(a) being clearly a training operation where PPL hire was definitely way down the list of priorities ("well, you might be able to have a plane if they aren't all needed for lessons")
(b) running not-very-new 152s, well maintained and in good condition but some with non-working radio nav gear and none with GPS, and obviously useless for taking your mates for a ride (only one at a time, and you can't go very far if you're taking the maximum weight seriously)
(c) not doing any marketing either to potential pilots or to existing members, with "birthday present" type "trial lessons" being regarded as something of a distraction
to
(a) providing much better service to PPL hire members, with lectures, post PPL courses, fly-outs (with students along as well), and PPL hire treated as real bookings
(b) running new 172s with working radio gear and GPS; clearly this is largely with the PPL hire market in mind, as you don't need a four seater with decent radio gear for PPL training
(c) marketing themselves much better to existing members and potential new pilots.
Not all of us want to buy an aircraft, for at least the following reasons:
(1) From time to time it would be the wrong aircraft and/or it would be in the wrong place so we'd be hiring on occasion anyway, which would feel somewhat extravagent if we at the same time had a plane at home doing nothing.
(2) Hiring is less of a financial risk, and it's easy to stop if money unexpectedly gets tighter. Some pilots' partners may prefer this to having an expensive asset which runs the risk of needing unpredictable expensive repairs and would be difficult to sell for a decent price in the middle of the next recession when the money is needed.
So, I've got a local club who are directly catering to people who want to hire as PPLs, and that suits me fine at the moment.
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WB,
I think you've got it. It IS about the people and what those people want to do with their flying.
Getting a PPL is expensive, time consuming, mired in unnecessary antiquity and regulation, and a hell of a lot of fun. We may not be able, as private owners and pilots, to do anything about that. But we can certainly do something with the newly minted PPL and our own flying enthusiasm.
Yakker has the right idea. "What are WE going to do about it?" I notice, however, that he asked the question but didn't offer any solutions. THAT'S the problem. Most people ask the question with a blank look on their face and a sense of "it's too big for me to tackle alone" in their minds. That's why organization and doing things on some kind of small scale is what it may take to start.
For instance, how much organization do most of us put into our flying? How often do we fly alone (me? Most of the time since the Pitts is a one-holer) or with an empty seat that could be filled with an entusiastic student or fellow PPL? What does it take to fill that empty seat? How many events does your airport or club host each year? And I don't just mean fly-ins and that sort of thing, but more like fly-outs? Leicester holds a half dozen or so each season (including a "ladies-only" flyout!), and that's still not enough for some of us. A couple of years ago a member took it upon himself to organize fly-outs specifically aimed at getting new PPLs to venture out of eyesight of the field. They booked the entire club fleet and every seat was filled! How about treasure hunts that incorporate several fields in one day or weekend? Flour bombing (Boxing Day at Leicester - great fun, clubhouse is heaving, and no one ever hits the target!). Then there're ground-based events that we could do. Talks by relevant personalities on interesting topics a la RAeS, club social dos or, if no club, a gathering of local pilots for a night at a local pub to plan the next event or just shoot the breeze. Calll up a student and bring her along.
I guess my point is that it's down to US to ensure new PPLs or people on the edge of quitting get influenced by positive and enthusiastic people. Some folks will seek it, some folks need to be taken under a wing, but they're all part of a population worth keeping high in numbers (and voter registration cards!)
As to the costs and other issues, that's for another posting. My fingers are tired. But I'll lead with this - microlights and SLAs?
Pitts2112
I think you've got it. It IS about the people and what those people want to do with their flying.
Getting a PPL is expensive, time consuming, mired in unnecessary antiquity and regulation, and a hell of a lot of fun. We may not be able, as private owners and pilots, to do anything about that. But we can certainly do something with the newly minted PPL and our own flying enthusiasm.
Yakker has the right idea. "What are WE going to do about it?" I notice, however, that he asked the question but didn't offer any solutions. THAT'S the problem. Most people ask the question with a blank look on their face and a sense of "it's too big for me to tackle alone" in their minds. That's why organization and doing things on some kind of small scale is what it may take to start.
For instance, how much organization do most of us put into our flying? How often do we fly alone (me? Most of the time since the Pitts is a one-holer) or with an empty seat that could be filled with an entusiastic student or fellow PPL? What does it take to fill that empty seat? How many events does your airport or club host each year? And I don't just mean fly-ins and that sort of thing, but more like fly-outs? Leicester holds a half dozen or so each season (including a "ladies-only" flyout!), and that's still not enough for some of us. A couple of years ago a member took it upon himself to organize fly-outs specifically aimed at getting new PPLs to venture out of eyesight of the field. They booked the entire club fleet and every seat was filled! How about treasure hunts that incorporate several fields in one day or weekend? Flour bombing (Boxing Day at Leicester - great fun, clubhouse is heaving, and no one ever hits the target!). Then there're ground-based events that we could do. Talks by relevant personalities on interesting topics a la RAeS, club social dos or, if no club, a gathering of local pilots for a night at a local pub to plan the next event or just shoot the breeze. Calll up a student and bring her along.
I guess my point is that it's down to US to ensure new PPLs or people on the edge of quitting get influenced by positive and enthusiastic people. Some folks will seek it, some folks need to be taken under a wing, but they're all part of a population worth keeping high in numbers (and voter registration cards!)
As to the costs and other issues, that's for another posting. My fingers are tired. But I'll lead with this - microlights and SLAs?
Pitts2112
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I'd be willing to bet that anywhere with a proper club, separate from any school, has a far lower dropout rate than a pure school (even, as I said, if it calls itself a club).
Re the diff between a "school" and a "club": I can't see there can be much.
I'd far rather spend my £8000 on half a Luscombe or Jodel, than a tenth of some fancy touring aircraft. I don't want to be in a group of ten; I want availability when I want it, and I like old aircraft. I have a GPS and don't use it, because I keep forgetting how to, and I find map and compass nav easy and fun. And I happen to know I'm not unique.
Whirlybird - The Voice of Reason
You're absolutely right, there's little else I can say.
Yakker
Good idea - and I think AOPA have just started something similar.
One second please...
...ah, here it is:
The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) Wings Awards Scheme offers four levels of award namely Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum Wings.
The aim is to promote the development of holders of the Private Pilot’s Licence (PPL) and the National Private Pilot’s Licence (NPPL) through the recognition of their achievements by the award of AOPA Wings.
More info at:
www.aopa.co.uk
You're absolutely right, there's little else I can say.
Yakker
However that said, why can\'t something along the lines of glidings, bronze, silver, gold award be introduced to further your flying achievement, instead of the IMC, night, twin route that many seem to take.
One second please...
...ah, here it is:
The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) Wings Awards Scheme offers four levels of award namely Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum Wings.
The aim is to promote the development of holders of the Private Pilot’s Licence (PPL) and the National Private Pilot’s Licence (NPPL) through the recognition of their achievements by the award of AOPA Wings.
More info at:
www.aopa.co.uk
microlights and SLAs
G
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t isn't hard for a bunch of keen PPLs to form a group around a decent plane, and even perhaps rent it out (to very carefully picked people) on top of that. One can get something pretty good for say £80k, and with 10 members that's "just" £8k each.
I'm surprised that no Club/School operator has made an input to this thread.
Spicy Meatball
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I must say, upon reading this thread further, I started getting depressed 
I started wondering, whether what I am doing (half way through PPL training) was actually worth it. Then I read QNH1013's thread and I started cheering up. I couldn't agree more with what was said here, and also that of Whirly. A group share is ideal and something which I will definately do. The thing is though, I am fearful that I wont get one due to me being a very low hour (just passed) PPL. I will have to wait and see. I am more than willing to become part of the "WE" in the "WE must do something", which has been said quite a few times over the last page or two.
Maz
I started wondering, whether what I am doing (half way through PPL training) was actually worth it. Then I read QNH1013's thread and I started cheering up. I couldn't agree more with what was said here, and also that of Whirly. A group share is ideal and something which I will definately do. The thing is though, I am fearful that I wont get one due to me being a very low hour (just passed) PPL. I will have to wait and see. I am more than willing to become part of the "WE" in the "WE must do something", which has been said quite a few times over the last page or two. Maz
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...due to me being a very low hour (just passed) PPL
A lot of groups give the low-hour pilot the old excuse of "increased premiums".
Our tailwheel PFA Permit group has, over the last 3 years or so, taken on three new ppl's, each with 50 hours, zero t/w time. The (then) insurers then simply asked for a premium boost of about £25, and a proviso was added that the excess for them (should a claim be made) be doubled for them during their first twenty hours on type. The usual "differences training" applied, of course.
One of the three joined the group even before getting the ppl, but could not fly it until the ppl arrived. The other two like the aircraft so much, they went and bought their own.
You may find that you need to locate a group that would be keen to "take you on" and broach the subject with the broker.
It is the group that makes a group, not the aircraft that makes the group.
The Original Whirly
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Maz,
There's another side to this. I was one of those new PPLs who was determined not to let my newly acquired skills lapse, having heard of so many people who did. When I actually got my PPL I sort of panicked....What do I do now? Should I buy a share? Should I get 25 hours (or whatever it is) and do an IMC? Tell me, someone, what do I do?!!!!!
Well, I'm inclined to say, hold on for a bit. Carry on hiring, and just enjoy being able to fly when you want and where you want to. That'll give you a bit of an idea of what you actually want to do with your flying, which may not be what the next person wants. Then is the time to join a group, or whatever.
In my case I found another new PPL who wanted to go places. The school let us take an aircraft away for a day if we did at least three hours flying - that meant, for us, a visit to any airfield within one and a half hours flying distance, every week or two. It was a wonderful first summer of flying. After that I discovered helicopters; I don't know what he did. But I could have realised that I could do much more with an IMC, or decided STOL aircraft and farm strips were my thing, or that I wanted to tour Europe, and so on.
What I'm saying is, don't let your skills lapse, but don't jump into things either. Hiring for a bit is fine, and gives you the time and space to work out what you want from your flying.
There's another side to this. I was one of those new PPLs who was determined not to let my newly acquired skills lapse, having heard of so many people who did. When I actually got my PPL I sort of panicked....What do I do now? Should I buy a share? Should I get 25 hours (or whatever it is) and do an IMC? Tell me, someone, what do I do?!!!!!
Well, I'm inclined to say, hold on for a bit. Carry on hiring, and just enjoy being able to fly when you want and where you want to. That'll give you a bit of an idea of what you actually want to do with your flying, which may not be what the next person wants. Then is the time to join a group, or whatever.
In my case I found another new PPL who wanted to go places. The school let us take an aircraft away for a day if we did at least three hours flying - that meant, for us, a visit to any airfield within one and a half hours flying distance, every week or two. It was a wonderful first summer of flying. After that I discovered helicopters; I don't know what he did. But I could have realised that I could do much more with an IMC, or decided STOL aircraft and farm strips were my thing, or that I wanted to tour Europe, and so on.
What I'm saying is, don't let your skills lapse, but don't jump into things either. Hiring for a bit is fine, and gives you the time and space to work out what you want from your flying.
Spicy Meatball
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Thank you Whirly, I have always had a bit of a habbit of jumping in too quick to be honest, but this time... 
When anyone ever asks me (often to the annoyance, in the tone of their voice):
"So what do you want to do with it when you have got your license?" Often, this comes in a tone of voice that suggests:
"What the hell are you bothering with all this for? Whats your gain?". To which I simply reply:
"Enjoy it".
Simple as that. The thing is though, I dont want them to be right! I want to enjoy the fact that, like you said, I can fly whenever I want, and with whoever wants to come with me. I would also like to go to Florida, check out the scenery. But lets not make this thread about me. I am more than happy to speak to people and offer them a place next to me for a flight, there's nothing better than sharing your enthusiasm with someone else. After all, I changed flying school after one hour because of the fact that there wasn't an ounce of social atmosphere. But that's just my humble opinion.
Maz
When anyone ever asks me (often to the annoyance, in the tone of their voice):"So what do you want to do with it when you have got your license?" Often, this comes in a tone of voice that suggests:
"What the hell are you bothering with all this for? Whats your gain?". To which I simply reply:
"Enjoy it".
Simple as that. The thing is though, I dont want them to be right! I want to enjoy the fact that, like you said, I can fly whenever I want, and with whoever wants to come with me. I would also like to go to Florida, check out the scenery. But lets not make this thread about me. I am more than happy to speak to people and offer them a place next to me for a flight, there's nothing better than sharing your enthusiasm with someone else. After all, I changed flying school after one hour because of the fact that there wasn't an ounce of social atmosphere. But that's just my humble opinion.
Maz
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Pitts2112
"I notice, however, that he asked the question but didn't offer any solutions. THAT'S the problem."
I have personally organised fly-outs, quiz nights, evening talks, all of which have been mentioned. And guess what, after a while you find it is the same small core of aviators who turn up. Within a year it fizzles out. The hard core are aviation lovers, who will fly anyway, most of these are owners (personally or in a group).
I was hoping to see some new ideas, and motivate us hard core into involving more to join us.
"I notice, however, that he asked the question but didn't offer any solutions. THAT'S the problem."
I have personally organised fly-outs, quiz nights, evening talks, all of which have been mentioned. And guess what, after a while you find it is the same small core of aviators who turn up. Within a year it fizzles out. The hard core are aviation lovers, who will fly anyway, most of these are owners (personally or in a group).
I was hoping to see some new ideas, and motivate us hard core into involving more to join us.
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Yakker
You are so right! I and better minds than mine, have wrestled with this problem before, (indeed I have a sneaking feeling we may even have jointly wrestled with it) and there are always a number of exciting flying things to add to the list. The ideas inevitably tend to be things that the idea-originator would either like to do, or felt was useful to them in some way in their past flying experiences, and whilst it may be just what is required to keep other PPL’s flying it may not.
The fizzle factor to which you referred I think is common in all clubs societies and loose gathering; most people want to have it organised but are not able/ willing/competent to organise it themselves so a large part of the fizzle is down to those few die-hards getting sick of making all the running. I am sure you know that even those whose livelihood is getting PPL’s flying can feel ground down by the process after a while.
That said, what now?
There are loads of societies and clubs that cater for those with a special interest such as navigation or aerobatics, instrument flying or air racing, but nothing specifically aimed at essentially entertaining Joe Soap PPL. I propose the launch of the Pprune Keep Britain Flying Alliance ” a not for profit organisation dedicated to stimulating interest amongst private flyers throughout the land by pooling the vast experience on this forum. It would not be builders club or a lobby group, but it could organise events at airfields around the land or simply inspire local groups to organise something in their school, club airfield or offer existing schools and clubs ideas on a plate. The trouble might be that those with the inspiration may be too busy flying to contribute!
What thinketh thou?
You are so right! I and better minds than mine, have wrestled with this problem before, (indeed I have a sneaking feeling we may even have jointly wrestled with it) and there are always a number of exciting flying things to add to the list. The ideas inevitably tend to be things that the idea-originator would either like to do, or felt was useful to them in some way in their past flying experiences, and whilst it may be just what is required to keep other PPL’s flying it may not.
The fizzle factor to which you referred I think is common in all clubs societies and loose gathering; most people want to have it organised but are not able/ willing/competent to organise it themselves so a large part of the fizzle is down to those few die-hards getting sick of making all the running. I am sure you know that even those whose livelihood is getting PPL’s flying can feel ground down by the process after a while.
That said, what now?
There are loads of societies and clubs that cater for those with a special interest such as navigation or aerobatics, instrument flying or air racing, but nothing specifically aimed at essentially entertaining Joe Soap PPL. I propose the launch of the Pprune Keep Britain Flying Alliance ” a not for profit organisation dedicated to stimulating interest amongst private flyers throughout the land by pooling the vast experience on this forum. It would not be builders club or a lobby group, but it could organise events at airfields around the land or simply inspire local groups to organise something in their school, club airfield or offer existing schools and clubs ideas on a plate. The trouble might be that those with the inspiration may be too busy flying to contribute!
What thinketh thou?
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GtE, thanks for the correction on the microlight moniker,
Yakker, didn't mean to disparage your character or efforts, merely that what you wrote was, unfortunately, fairly indicative of the approach most of us take, me included most of the time.
Maz, a group is definitely the way to go, for the camaraderie as much as the flying. If you can't find a group, try to buy an airplane, if you can swing the up front cost, and then advertise for shares - I've been told that's much more successful than trying to get people together to commit to a group and then search for an airplane. But I've always joined groups rather than started them so I'm not really an expert there.
I've found the group thing and the club thing to be the best elements of flying in the UK.
Pitts2112
Yakker, didn't mean to disparage your character or efforts, merely that what you wrote was, unfortunately, fairly indicative of the approach most of us take, me included most of the time.
Maz, a group is definitely the way to go, for the camaraderie as much as the flying. If you can't find a group, try to buy an airplane, if you can swing the up front cost, and then advertise for shares - I've been told that's much more successful than trying to get people together to commit to a group and then search for an airplane. But I've always joined groups rather than started them so I'm not really an expert there.
I've found the group thing and the club thing to be the best elements of flying in the UK.
Pitts2112
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On the whole, people don't want to go to clubs or meetings. They don't want to belong to yet another group. They don't want an organised event that'll take up lots of time and money. They'd just like access to a little more guidance and advice than they've got already. They'd like a flying club to be just that - a place where people were approachable, where they could ask for advice, where they could find people to fly with. And that's where individuals can help out...excuse my sounding like a broken record, but I know it works.
The Original Whirly
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Whirly's good deed for the day.
Having not done any f/w flying for 5 weeks, and since the wx was better than expected, I decided to commit aviation today. Over a pre-flight cup of coffee I started chatting to someone; it turned out he'd done 20 hours of a PPL and gone solo many years ago, then given up. "Why?", I asked. He started by saying it was lack of time and money, but I got the feeling there was more too it than that. Anyway, remembering all I'd said on this thread, I decided maybe I should put my money where my mouth is, and I asked him if he wanted to come flying with me.
It was fairly hazy, with a lot of low cloud, so I didn't go far, just messed around in the local area, then did some circuits, 50 minutes in total. I apologised to Ken for my first pretty ropey landing, but he seemed happy, and they got better after that. After the flight he seemed exceedingly happy to help me refuel and put KF to bed at the far end of the airfield. I got the impression that he enjoyed being part of something he'd been in some way on the fringes of before. But it was over lunch (which he bought, and so he should, as I didn't charge him for any flying) that the real reasons for his giving up came out. A different instructor every week, so that he never really got to know any of them. Only managing an hour a week at most, so that months as a student became years. Realising he had no idea what he'd do, or what he could do, when he got his PPL. Being scared a couple of times while flying with low hours pilots who, without going into it all, were definitely over-confident.
I'd been afraid he would be bored flying with me, but he said it was the first time he'd realised that flying could be relaxing, and he'd thoroughly enjoyed it. I told him I do this for fun, had simply wanted to bore holes in the sky and get current again, and didn't believe in stretching myself to the point where I and my passengers get scared. Then I heard more about over-critical instructors, and PPLs who are deadly, dismally serious about their flying, so that it just isn't fun and you're permanently stressed about it. And I told him about long distance trips, and the fun of flying on the continent, and landing on the beach at Barra, and things like that.
I learned a lot from him. I hope he learned something from me. At any rate, we both had a very pleasant flight. I'll definitely grab strangers out of the cafe and stick them in my aircraft more often.
Will he take up flying again? Who knows? But I think this definitely gives us all some insight into why people give up flying.
It was fairly hazy, with a lot of low cloud, so I didn't go far, just messed around in the local area, then did some circuits, 50 minutes in total. I apologised to Ken for my first pretty ropey landing, but he seemed happy, and they got better after that. After the flight he seemed exceedingly happy to help me refuel and put KF to bed at the far end of the airfield. I got the impression that he enjoyed being part of something he'd been in some way on the fringes of before. But it was over lunch (which he bought, and so he should, as I didn't charge him for any flying) that the real reasons for his giving up came out. A different instructor every week, so that he never really got to know any of them. Only managing an hour a week at most, so that months as a student became years. Realising he had no idea what he'd do, or what he could do, when he got his PPL. Being scared a couple of times while flying with low hours pilots who, without going into it all, were definitely over-confident.
I'd been afraid he would be bored flying with me, but he said it was the first time he'd realised that flying could be relaxing, and he'd thoroughly enjoyed it. I told him I do this for fun, had simply wanted to bore holes in the sky and get current again, and didn't believe in stretching myself to the point where I and my passengers get scared. Then I heard more about over-critical instructors, and PPLs who are deadly, dismally serious about their flying, so that it just isn't fun and you're permanently stressed about it. And I told him about long distance trips, and the fun of flying on the continent, and landing on the beach at Barra, and things like that.
I learned a lot from him. I hope he learned something from me. At any rate, we both had a very pleasant flight. I'll definitely grab strangers out of the cafe and stick them in my aircraft more often.
Will he take up flying again? Who knows? But I think this definitely gives us all some insight into why people give up flying.
Last edited by Whirlybird; 13th Dec 2004 at 08:17.
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Well done Whirly - brilliant. That's probably the best way to start if somebody wants to change things.
The remaining obstacle is as discussed before - many or most schools don't like one pinching their "customers" so it's a case of meeting up with existing PPLs who are not attached (via training or self fly hire business) to any existing organisation. I know I keep going back to the negatives but in some situations there are plenty of them... I couldn't do this openly where I am based - taking up even the most hypothetical self fly hire customer of a certain company could easily result in my hangar space being "cancelled"
The remaining obstacle is as discussed before - many or most schools don't like one pinching their "customers" so it's a case of meeting up with existing PPLs who are not attached (via training or self fly hire business) to any existing organisation. I know I keep going back to the negatives but in some situations there are plenty of them... I couldn't do this openly where I am based - taking up even the most hypothetical self fly hire customer of a certain company could easily result in my hangar space being "cancelled"
The Original Whirly
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IO540,
That is totally horrendous. It's none of their business who you fly with!!!
I don't know what you can do about that really. Would just having a chat to them do any good....explaining that people who learn more about flying get more confident and do more flying, which will mean more money in their pockets? More pilots who fly for longer helps the schools too - more self-fly hire, more sales in cafes etc, more landing fees - we should all be on the same side really. You argue pretty convincingly on PPRuNe; can't you convince the school in the same way?
That is totally horrendous. It's none of their business who you fly with!!!
I don't know what you can do about that really. Would just having a chat to them do any good....explaining that people who learn more about flying get more confident and do more flying, which will mean more money in their pockets? More pilots who fly for longer helps the schools too - more self-fly hire, more sales in cafes etc, more landing fees - we should all be on the same side really. You argue pretty convincingly on PPRuNe; can't you convince the school in the same way?