Newcastle Aero Club
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Hold Foxtrot
Interesting figures - from which you can calculate:
Cost of flying £360,000 divided by no. of hours 3000
Give a cost per hour of £120.00 - but they were charging less than this. At £90.00 per hour they would have been losing £30.00 per hour.
I think the above may be slightly on the pessimistic side but is not too far from the truth.
What it does go some way to showing is that the profits from flying training are marginal at best.
Cost of flying £360,000 divided by no. of hours 3000
Give a cost per hour of £120.00 - but they were charging less than this. At £90.00 per hour they would have been losing £30.00 per hour.
I think the above may be slightly on the pessimistic side but is not too far from the truth.
What it does go some way to showing is that the profits from flying training are marginal at best.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Met office
Dont shoot the messenger.
Only joking, no splitting hairs.
The figures are an approximation and only to show that the club was viable and flight training was indeed used by the majority and not the "Money bags gentry " spoken of previously.
I agree £90 per hr for solo hire,but I think you must also agree the higher percentage of flights where training, at the higher rate of £120 + landing fine (fee).
NAC was a profitable concern,any improper use of the funds therein should come to light from RMT investigation's and passed to the relavent authourity and in time we may well see this happen.
Anybody who cannot do the time should not commit the crime.
And that is the case for the Defence m'lud
Regards all
Must fly, got to work (no pun intended )
Only joking, no splitting hairs.
The figures are an approximation and only to show that the club was viable and flight training was indeed used by the majority and not the "Money bags gentry " spoken of previously.
I agree £90 per hr for solo hire,but I think you must also agree the higher percentage of flights where training, at the higher rate of £120 + landing fine (fee).
NAC was a profitable concern,any improper use of the funds therein should come to light from RMT investigation's and passed to the relavent authourity and in time we may well see this happen.
Anybody who cannot do the time should not commit the crime.
And that is the case for the Defence m'lud
Regards all
Must fly, got to work (no pun intended )
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Location: Newcastle
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NACT (suggestion/explanation)
Hi Flyers,
If the Journal or rumours are correct about new owners making the former NAC facilities available for hire, or by some massive stroke of luck enables the NACT proposal to pip them at the post, I suggest it would be a good idea to have an embryo organisation in place to take up any offer on behalf of any former NAC general members or future potential flyers who decide to join in. By so doing I think it will help get people flying again quicker at Newcastle because they already know the set up (and possibly how to improve & avoid past ‘mistakes’). Alternatively as a group they could start afresh on another airstrip if terms at Newcastle were not favourable.
As author of the NACT Proposal I am entitled to invite people to help further it by delegating responsibilities to a group of them. Once formed the group could act in response to the new members (in waiting) expressed needs. If it is still possible to purchase the former NAC name it would then be possible to keep the “oldest flying club in the country” alive no matter where it lives if people so desired.
It will not be an easy task given it means starting from scratch like the original Newcastle pioneers in 1905. That is?
If it is true that in 1905 Newcastle Airport was born from a twinkle in the eyes of
Five friends who formed a fellowship in a farmers field to further their faith in flying, & so found the Wright way of flying!
Sorry about the ‘Waffle’ Noise!
Let’s get back to serious business. Lottery ticket did not win so it is back to plan ‘A’.
I.e. by way of example only 500 members at £50 PA membership = £25,000.
250 members spending £500 a year on flying = £125,000
500 members spending £500 PA on club activities (not all beer I hope) =£250,000.
Total expected turnover = £400,000
Same story as earlier post basically. Bulk buying will make it cheaper to fly.
Good cash flow management on a pay as you go basis will create scope to develop a club. It may be possible to augment the above with 500 people joining in fundraising activities for fun and in the spirit of the former Newcastle Aero Club motto;-
“by your own Efforts so shall ye rise” to raise the total by £200,000 PA to buy a plane and contribute to paying for activities etc.
Unless of course one of the Ppruner’s reading this site was the sole winner of last nights lottery or next Saturday’s jackpot & pledges £400,000 to start us off!!!!
In the hope people are interested in this approach my next post will be some nominations for people to FORM the INITIAL PILOT CREW to steer the group of potential members onto an airstrip in the shortest possible time. This form of action group is normally called a STEERING GROUP.
Best wishes
Hope2
Get some support
If the Journal or rumours are correct about new owners making the former NAC facilities available for hire, or by some massive stroke of luck enables the NACT proposal to pip them at the post, I suggest it would be a good idea to have an embryo organisation in place to take up any offer on behalf of any former NAC general members or future potential flyers who decide to join in. By so doing I think it will help get people flying again quicker at Newcastle because they already know the set up (and possibly how to improve & avoid past ‘mistakes’). Alternatively as a group they could start afresh on another airstrip if terms at Newcastle were not favourable.
As author of the NACT Proposal I am entitled to invite people to help further it by delegating responsibilities to a group of them. Once formed the group could act in response to the new members (in waiting) expressed needs. If it is still possible to purchase the former NAC name it would then be possible to keep the “oldest flying club in the country” alive no matter where it lives if people so desired.
It will not be an easy task given it means starting from scratch like the original Newcastle pioneers in 1905. That is?
If it is true that in 1905 Newcastle Airport was born from a twinkle in the eyes of
Five friends who formed a fellowship in a farmers field to further their faith in flying, & so found the Wright way of flying!
Sorry about the ‘Waffle’ Noise!
Let’s get back to serious business. Lottery ticket did not win so it is back to plan ‘A’.
I.e. by way of example only 500 members at £50 PA membership = £25,000.
250 members spending £500 a year on flying = £125,000
500 members spending £500 PA on club activities (not all beer I hope) =£250,000.
Total expected turnover = £400,000
Same story as earlier post basically. Bulk buying will make it cheaper to fly.
Good cash flow management on a pay as you go basis will create scope to develop a club. It may be possible to augment the above with 500 people joining in fundraising activities for fun and in the spirit of the former Newcastle Aero Club motto;-
“by your own Efforts so shall ye rise” to raise the total by £200,000 PA to buy a plane and contribute to paying for activities etc.
Unless of course one of the Ppruner’s reading this site was the sole winner of last nights lottery or next Saturday’s jackpot & pledges £400,000 to start us off!!!!
In the hope people are interested in this approach my next post will be some nominations for people to FORM the INITIAL PILOT CREW to steer the group of potential members onto an airstrip in the shortest possible time. This form of action group is normally called a STEERING GROUP.
Best wishes
Hope2
Get some support
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Location: england
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INTERESTING POSTS
Hi guys,
some interesting post's.
although some things must be mentioned here.
After speaking with Elia yesterday I did find out
some interesting points.
He did not pull out, he did bid on the aircraft as they were
in the gill air hangar, he strickly appraised them for what they
were worth.
Samsom aviation bid was considerably higher so they would definetly get the bid, which they have.
Elia was told that whoever took over the aero club would
have to continue the business as usual. Now we all know that
samson is going to raise his prices and hence make people
go elsewhere so where is the logic here guys.
The building and lease were not what he was told weeks
before.
Elia made several trips to the airport with plenty of
members and was told evertime he when up that parkin
and mason where busy and that they would get back to him.
Elia feels that if he spoken with the airport he could have
possibly worked somethink out.
Now looking at the bigger picture that is why the airport really
has never done a lot for the aero club and hence letting the club
bill up big debts to rid the place for their future master plan.
Also elia made a remark that during his time he had several
conversations with certain people that had let the cat out of
the bag and hence Elia had stated in newcastle where he
met up with a group of members that a deal had been done
before he arrived, hence the airport or anyone else not returning any of his calls....
I know elia well and I think something else is in the making
here I really don't think this is all over.
WHO KNOWS ANOTHER DEAL MAY TAKE PLACE.
HAS ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE NEWCASTLE FLYING SCHOOL
MAKING A PROPOSAL TO SAMSON ABOUT PUTTING THIER SCHOOL
IN THE BUILDING. THIS WILL MAKE FOR SOME INTERESTING POSTS.
SAFE FLYING ALL
MIKE
his calls.
some interesting post's.
although some things must be mentioned here.
After speaking with Elia yesterday I did find out
some interesting points.
He did not pull out, he did bid on the aircraft as they were
in the gill air hangar, he strickly appraised them for what they
were worth.
Samsom aviation bid was considerably higher so they would definetly get the bid, which they have.
Elia was told that whoever took over the aero club would
have to continue the business as usual. Now we all know that
samson is going to raise his prices and hence make people
go elsewhere so where is the logic here guys.
The building and lease were not what he was told weeks
before.
Elia made several trips to the airport with plenty of
members and was told evertime he when up that parkin
and mason where busy and that they would get back to him.
Elia feels that if he spoken with the airport he could have
possibly worked somethink out.
Now looking at the bigger picture that is why the airport really
has never done a lot for the aero club and hence letting the club
bill up big debts to rid the place for their future master plan.
Also elia made a remark that during his time he had several
conversations with certain people that had let the cat out of
the bag and hence Elia had stated in newcastle where he
met up with a group of members that a deal had been done
before he arrived, hence the airport or anyone else not returning any of his calls....
I know elia well and I think something else is in the making
here I really don't think this is all over.
WHO KNOWS ANOTHER DEAL MAY TAKE PLACE.
HAS ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE NEWCASTLE FLYING SCHOOL
MAKING A PROPOSAL TO SAMSON ABOUT PUTTING THIER SCHOOL
IN THE BUILDING. THIS WILL MAKE FOR SOME INTERESTING POSTS.
SAFE FLYING ALL
MIKE
his calls.
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Hope 2 Fly
Am I the only one who becoming a little suspicious of Hope2Fly's motives? I would like to think that he is a genuine outsider who is trying to help club members in their hour of need but am not so sure anymore.
He has stated he is a non-member. His recent posts have been long, rambling, sometimes incomprehensible, probably delusional and quite comical because of this.
However to actually go to the stage of submitting a proposal to the administrators shows that he means business. I am quite worried however by his last post where he states HE will nominate people to join some sort of Steering group that will represent the club to Samson. Under what authority does he act?
I was starting to think that he might be or be connected with the ex-committee members who contributed to this situation and that his posts were just a smokescreen to distract us.
So I say (politely) to Hope2Fly:
I think it is reasonable from the point of view of former members (I am one) that if you claim to represent our best interests and would like our further support:
1) You identify yourself?
2) State what your interests in the club are?
3) State what experience you have of operating such a trust.
Thanks
clearfinalsno1
He has stated he is a non-member. His recent posts have been long, rambling, sometimes incomprehensible, probably delusional and quite comical because of this.
However to actually go to the stage of submitting a proposal to the administrators shows that he means business. I am quite worried however by his last post where he states HE will nominate people to join some sort of Steering group that will represent the club to Samson. Under what authority does he act?
I was starting to think that he might be or be connected with the ex-committee members who contributed to this situation and that his posts were just a smokescreen to distract us.
So I say (politely) to Hope2Fly:
I think it is reasonable from the point of view of former members (I am one) that if you claim to represent our best interests and would like our further support:
1) You identify yourself?
2) State what your interests in the club are?
3) State what experience you have of operating such a trust.
Thanks
clearfinalsno1
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Mike Halls
I discussed the possibility of some, or all, of the Flying Instructors getting together and approaching Samson with a view to running a Flying School out of the Club Building, paying Samson a fee for use of the building, and leasing the aircraft from them, with another club member the other day.
We both thought it seemed like a good idea. I was thinking of running it by JC to see what he thought, but haven't got around to it yet.
Seems like it could be a viable proposition if the finances were properly costed and realistic prices were charged.
Similarly, as I think I may have mentioned before...if Samson were approached with an offer of paying a fee to use the AeroClub facilities, would such an offer really be turned down? After all profit is profit.
We both thought it seemed like a good idea. I was thinking of running it by JC to see what he thought, but haven't got around to it yet.
Seems like it could be a viable proposition if the finances were properly costed and realistic prices were charged.
Similarly, as I think I may have mentioned before...if Samson were approached with an offer of paying a fee to use the AeroClub facilities, would such an offer really be turned down? After all profit is profit.
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Mu Beta: That sounds like a great idea. It looks like its definately Samson who got it doesnt it, so anything that gets us flying again is worth a go. They can only answer in one of two ways so its a 50/50 chance of an affirmative 
WK
WK
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Mu Beta, similar to the request I made earlier to Hope2Fly, if you are planning on running a new club, may we be allowed to know your identity and your plans?
Will "your" club be privately owned (by you?) or a member run organisation? Have you decided on instructor salarys and conditions?
Thank you
Will "your" club be privately owned (by you?) or a member run organisation? Have you decided on instructor salarys and conditions?
Thank you
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NAC
Members:
For the record, I also know the ID of Mu Beta and I am not suggesting Mu Beta is part of anything to do with "The Newcastle Flying School" or an ex committee member/s bid.
For the record, I also know the ID of Mu Beta and I am not suggesting Mu Beta is part of anything to do with "The Newcastle Flying School" or an ex committee member/s bid.
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NACT & NACC (steering group nominations)
Hi Flyers,
Will the people I nominate please forgive me for doing so without proper consultation & protocol. It is difficult to communicate in these circumstances and limited time scale. I recognise they may not want the responsibility or be in a position to take it. I cannot think of any other way to make progress given the circumstances of not knowing people and this forum being my only way of communicating with the flying community in the region. The process of establishing a pilot team/steering group will clarify to me if there is the will, among those who expressed an interest in winning there club back, to co-operate and activly do something to achieve that objective. Perhaps more importantly it will show if the pioneering spirit of the clubs founders lives on or not.
1) H999 ;- has demonstrated a will to act & help others particularly in comunication.
2) Sean377;- has also demonstrated a will to act & help others co-operatively.
I think they both recognised my difficulties, what I was trying to achieve, have an open mind about people who may be different and seem willing to listen and consider trying something new.
3) vacant place nominated person not in position to accept.
4) Elia Golfin;- Has all the necessary attributes to build a successful flying business and demonstrated a willingness to foster the club spirit and contribute to its development.
In my oppinion it will be mutually benificial to his clubs and any future club here that may arrise from this process. We can learn a lot from the wider activity base in American clubs. It is apparently cheeper to have a fortnight flying holiday over there with forty hrs flying time. Than it is for thirty hours flying over here. I think it makes good sence to foster this link that may grow into exchanges & joint activities with American clubs.I hope he is willing to donate his expertise.
5) Fifth Element;-. I believe it will be essential to have a person in the team who is able to co-operate effectively with the airport authority officers. A local person with acknowledged integrity would be important to establish credibility of any club hoping to operate from Newcastle Airport.
I leave it to the Ppruners to nominate the Fifth Element Person.
In my oppinion 3 delegates is the minimum number to make progress possible, five is probable adaquate, seven might be better to lighten the load. The target is five people.
If the above people are not in a position to accept the nomination it is understood and accepted. I apologise for putting them in this position it is a lot of responsibility to take on especially without clarifying what it involves first.. Would you all please publically accept or decline.
It’s up to Ppruner’s interested in developing a Newcastle flying club to fill vacancies. Communicate among themselves to provide seconders. Then we see what happens?
Good luck
Hope2
PS where there is a will there is a way to achieve this through your own contact networks.
Will the people I nominate please forgive me for doing so without proper consultation & protocol. It is difficult to communicate in these circumstances and limited time scale. I recognise they may not want the responsibility or be in a position to take it. I cannot think of any other way to make progress given the circumstances of not knowing people and this forum being my only way of communicating with the flying community in the region. The process of establishing a pilot team/steering group will clarify to me if there is the will, among those who expressed an interest in winning there club back, to co-operate and activly do something to achieve that objective. Perhaps more importantly it will show if the pioneering spirit of the clubs founders lives on or not.
1) H999 ;- has demonstrated a will to act & help others particularly in comunication.
2) Sean377;- has also demonstrated a will to act & help others co-operatively.
I think they both recognised my difficulties, what I was trying to achieve, have an open mind about people who may be different and seem willing to listen and consider trying something new.
3) vacant place nominated person not in position to accept.
4) Elia Golfin;- Has all the necessary attributes to build a successful flying business and demonstrated a willingness to foster the club spirit and contribute to its development.
In my oppinion it will be mutually benificial to his clubs and any future club here that may arrise from this process. We can learn a lot from the wider activity base in American clubs. It is apparently cheeper to have a fortnight flying holiday over there with forty hrs flying time. Than it is for thirty hours flying over here. I think it makes good sence to foster this link that may grow into exchanges & joint activities with American clubs.I hope he is willing to donate his expertise.
5) Fifth Element;-. I believe it will be essential to have a person in the team who is able to co-operate effectively with the airport authority officers. A local person with acknowledged integrity would be important to establish credibility of any club hoping to operate from Newcastle Airport.
I leave it to the Ppruners to nominate the Fifth Element Person.
In my oppinion 3 delegates is the minimum number to make progress possible, five is probable adaquate, seven might be better to lighten the load. The target is five people.
If the above people are not in a position to accept the nomination it is understood and accepted. I apologise for putting them in this position it is a lot of responsibility to take on especially without clarifying what it involves first.. Would you all please publically accept or decline.
It’s up to Ppruner’s interested in developing a Newcastle flying club to fill vacancies. Communicate among themselves to provide seconders. Then we see what happens?
Good luck
Hope2
PS where there is a will there is a way to achieve this through your own contact networks.
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Phoenix from NAC
Hi All
I see what you are all getting at re: Newcastle Flying School Ltd or whatever, I put this question to you all.
Would you be bothered if Mr Parkin was sitting in JC's chair when you paid a reasonable cost for your flight/training ?
We must put aside previous venom and bad feeling,they whoever they may be will be investing their money and not us.
If there is to be an FTO at all I would gladly pay the devil for my flying, I dont have to like him but I'm getting what I want.
Selfish ? Dammed right, but it's what we all want is it not ?
MB : Brilliant idea. No committee, make them self employed with a manager and they all commit an ammount of money to the buisness so it is in their own interest to do well.
I think we need to forget the word "club and members "we now become "customers " of whoever takes over if indeed this happens.
Mike Halls :Would Elia still be interested in a lease ?
Regards All
I see what you are all getting at re: Newcastle Flying School Ltd or whatever, I put this question to you all.
Would you be bothered if Mr Parkin was sitting in JC's chair when you paid a reasonable cost for your flight/training ?
We must put aside previous venom and bad feeling,they whoever they may be will be investing their money and not us.
If there is to be an FTO at all I would gladly pay the devil for my flying, I dont have to like him but I'm getting what I want.
Selfish ? Dammed right, but it's what we all want is it not ?
MB : Brilliant idea. No committee, make them self employed with a manager and they all commit an ammount of money to the buisness so it is in their own interest to do well.
I think we need to forget the word "club and members "we now become "customers " of whoever takes over if indeed this happens.
Mike Halls :Would Elia still be interested in a lease ?
Regards All
Last edited by GonTek; 21st Jan 2005 at 09:08.
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Well, I guess I should be flattered at being nominated 
, but rather than accept or decline at this point in time, I'm happy to 'suck it and see' for the time being! I'm still at a loss as to what we are trying to achieve and what I'm being nominated to do 
, but I'll keep an open mind!
One other thing - when are we going to have that drink
It\'s like the Gobi Desert in here!
That\'s my 1st job as nominee, organise a
up! 
\
, but rather than accept or decline at this point in time, I'm happy to 'suck it and see' for the time being! I'm still at a loss as to what we are trying to achieve and what I'm being nominated to do , but I'll keep an open mind!One other thing - when are we going to have that drink
It\'s like the Gobi Desert in here!
That\'s my 1st job as nominee, organise a
up! \
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Sean: I'm definately on your side.
I've spoken to JC today and, unfortunately, he says Samson's not really interested in Flying Training and he doesn't think permission from the Airport would be forthcomming either.
But you never know unless you ask.
For the record I'm not part of Newcastle Flying School Limited, nor have I any connection with any ex-committee members apart from knowing some of them and counting some of them as friends.
I'd just like to see the members who can fly and those who want to learn to be able to do so.
clearfinalsno1:- I wasn't proposing to run a new club, I don't have the level of experience in aviation to consider that, and I have no plans...it just seemed that the instructors forming a kind of co-operative (yes probably on a self-employed basis I suppose) might make flying training accessible again. It was only a thought, but having spoken to JC probably not a viable one.
I've spoken to JC today and, unfortunately, he says Samson's not really interested in Flying Training and he doesn't think permission from the Airport would be forthcomming either.
But you never know unless you ask.
For the record I'm not part of Newcastle Flying School Limited, nor have I any connection with any ex-committee members apart from knowing some of them and counting some of them as friends.
I'd just like to see the members who can fly and those who want to learn to be able to do so.
clearfinalsno1:- I wasn't proposing to run a new club, I don't have the level of experience in aviation to consider that, and I have no plans...it just seemed that the instructors forming a kind of co-operative (yes probably on a self-employed basis I suppose) might make flying training accessible again. It was only a thought, but having spoken to JC probably not a viable one.
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So if Samson aren't interested in training, what is their interest? Hiring out to PPL's?
With regards the 'corporate doss-house' worries, I really can't see Shearer and Co. wanting to come up to the airport earlier than they need to, just to hang around.
With regards the 'corporate doss-house' worries, I really can't see Shearer and Co. wanting to come up to the airport earlier than they need to, just to hang around.
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Whilst we all think Mr Parkin wants otherwise, I thought the official airport line was that they WOULD allow flight training and hire to continue from any phoenix organisation?
If Samson is not interested in this, does anyone know what they plan to do with the aircraft? Are they all still on the field? Do you think they will be transferred elsewhere as a lot or sold as individual items? What about all the cups and plaques?
If Samson is not interested in this, does anyone know what they plan to do with the aircraft? Are they all still on the field? Do you think they will be transferred elsewhere as a lot or sold as individual items? What about all the cups and plaques?
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Sounds like a load of Hogwash to me.
"Newcastle flying school" dont make me laugh, same old faces same old tricks.
Back to the "old boys" network.
Besides Parkin has shown his hand, he intends to rid Newcastle of GA as he has done without shame elsware, his only problem is finding away to do it legally.
We all know Elia was the best option but he was scuppered by the pirates.
"Newcastle flying school" dont make me laugh, same old faces same old tricks.
Back to the "old boys" network.
Besides Parkin has shown his hand, he intends to rid Newcastle of GA as he has done without shame elsware, his only problem is finding away to do it legally.
We all know Elia was the best option but he was scuppered by the pirates.