Blue Pullovers and Gold Stripes

[Sassenach]

I raised a point in Thief13x's thread, 'When you almost became... "Another Statistic"', about students and PPLs not feeling able to discuss their mistakes with their instructors for fear of reprimand or embarrassment. I went on to suggest that the image an instructor creates for himself/ herself has a large part to play in this reluctance:

Don't make yourselves out to be demigods or super-human; be modest about your capabilities, encourage open discussion with your students and listen to what they tell you - who knows, you might learn something too. Instructors wearing white cotton shirts, blue pullovers and gold stripes can be really intimidating to inexperienced students. Good instructors don't need physical trappings to prove how good they really are.

The instructors at our club are all incredibly experienced (including several airline training captains and an ex RAX test pilot), but are incredibly modest about it, to the point of being self-effacing. They strive to put students at their ease: this includes a conscious policy of not wearing any kind of instructor's uniform.

I am interested to know what PPL students past and present think about this. Do a blue pullover and gold stripes inspire confidence and put you at your ease, or are they just plain intimidating?

[shortstripper]

Niether really ...

The instructors who wear the trappings because the school insist have no choice anyway and the ones who do even when they don't have to, tend to be prats ... but then, even prats can be good or bad teachers

Looking back, the best instructor I had IMHO was a woman. Not sure if that means anything but it may be because women don't seem to be as egotistical as men. The best male instructors I’ve had were all old and experienced (nothing to prove?). The only common factor is that all my instructors save one didn’t wear the trappings … the one that did was useless! … but I don’t think he either inspired or intimidated because of the uniform.

SS

[Zlin526]

Lots of differing opinions on this one. My own instructor was an ex-ag pilot. He'd quite often turn up wearing only shorts and sandals, but he could still show most instructors a thing or two about handling skills. As for protection from fire, he didn't seem to give a $-hit.

As Shortstripper says, those who HAVE to wear a uniform have no choice. Those who do have a choice and still wear a blue woolly pully and epaulettes for GA & club flying seem to have (IMHO of course) a bit of a problem with image. Maybe it goes with the smart 'flying school' clubhouse image that most people seem to expect these days. If I woz an instructor, I'd probably wear smart jeans, desert boots and a polo shirt, but that's what I tend to wear for flying anyway!

Its the same with 'Leather Pilot Cases'. How many 10 hr students do you know that go out and buy one, because it's seen to be 'an essential bit of kit which all pilot have'?

Any aviation psychologists (or psychiatrists for some instructors) on the forum care to comment?

Its the quality of the instruction that counts, not what the instructor is wearing.





Edited for Political correctness and to avoid upsetting the sensitive characters among us.

[dublinpilot]

It's not about what you wear, but about how approahable you are.

The best instructor I had, was very good for a number of reasons (most not relevant to this thread). But one of the things I liked about him was that if I asked him a straight question, I got an honest answer, not a textbook one. Sometimes this would mean he'd have to tell me "I don't know", or "There's no right thing to do in that situation. You'll just have to decide with seems best, and go with it. What I would have done was..... But don't forget you always have the option of...."

But most of all he had confidence in my flying. Or at least appeared to have. That way I didn't mind telling him about my mistakes, and asking his advice. Had I not thought that he had confidence in my flying, I might have been more reluctant to discuss these things with him, in case he suddenly thought I was no longer capable of flying solo, or want to go back over areas I'd already covered.

This I suppose is why most students and PPL's don't want to discuss their mistakes. Fear of being "gounded for further training."

So instructors, always let your students feel that you have confidence in them, even if you don't! Otherwise they won't talk to you about their mistakes!

dp

[Aerobatic Flyer]

Obviously the owner or manager of a flying school will want his staff to look reasonably presentable, but it is competence that matters - and competence is generally accompanied by sufficient natural authority that clothing is irrelevant.

Dressing up in airline captain outfits to fly small aeroplanes is silly. As a customer, if all other things were equal, I would choose a school where the instructors dressed normally in place of one where they wore white shirts, and I would generally actively avoid one where the shirts came with gold trimmings.

[MLS-12D]

Dressing up in airline captain outfits to fly small aeroplanes is silly.

Agreed. But then, so is dressing up in pseudo merchant marine outfits to fly large aeroplanes.

This I suppose is why most students and PPL's don't want to discuss their mistakes. Fear of being "gounded for further training."

Very true.

[Pink_aviator]

I DISAGREE

I think AS a flying female ,and low hour ,well high hour student ,low hour pilot,
55 hours

That to me ,I want to feel confident in my instructor and my school ,
and that goes with a proffesional image.

Proffetional in my mind

(and I am a dreamy romantic ,who always falls for her instructors )

is white shirt ,stripes and if cold, blue jumper with eppellets.

YES we all know that it is the quality of the instruction and not the "TRAPPING " but a smart appearance I think inspires confidence .

Especially for the TRIAL flyers
(yes I know we are talking about PPL students but they can come from them )
,
Who I have seen, can be qqquite nnnnervouse , and a jean clad ,open shirted ,bronzed taut muscled instructor may

emmmmmmmm
I think I may have just changed my mind .

THE PINKSTER .

[Human Factor]

Agreed. But then, so is dressing up in pseudo merchant marine outfits to fly large aeroplanes.

This is a legal requirement for the big jets (mainly so you can see who the flight crew are). However, I'd trade mine for something a bit more practical like a decent leather flying jacket, mainly so I don't freeze my bits off doing a walkround in the winter!

As far as instructors at your average PPL flying school wearing half a dozen stripes on their shoulders, I find it quite amusing. The best pilots don't need to prove it. The professional schools (OATS, etc.) are a different consideration though as they are training for the airline environment.

As for me, I wear an RAF baby-gro for light aircraft flying as I've seen what can happen if you don't.

HF

[Boing_737]

I have mixed views on this. On the one hand, a club provides an instructor with a uniform to give a good image - and as many instructors aren't exactly paid minimum wage, then it would seem unfair to make them buy the uniform themselves. This is especially true at the airfield I fly from which is very muddy during the winter months, and you wouldn't want to be destroying your own clothing.

On the other hand, a line should be drawn somewhere. Wearing the ol' gold stripes in a PA28 (or worse a C152) is a little pretencious IMHO. I certainly wouldn't do it if I was in that position as it seems to be a symbol of superiority - teachers in schools no longer wear gowns and mortar boards do they?

The approachability of an instructor is basically down to their attitude. If they are not approachable, and cannot talk candidly about (flying) problems with a student, then they shouldn't be an instructor - and I don't think the argument that they are just their before they get their right hand jet seat is a good one. Their sole purpose as an instructor is to teach you and I to fly, safely, and be there to offer advice as necessary. Do FIs have to do a course in tuition? (dunno the answer to that, never looked into an FI course). Does any external agency (outside of the flying fraternety) evaluate an instructors ability to teach?

One essential item that should be provided though, that would make instructors way more approachable is a constant deodorant shower during the summer months - nothing like getting into the cockpit on a barmy summer evening with your instructor who has been working all day in the flying greenhouses


Just my opinion, hope no one gets offended......

[MLS-12D]

This is a legal requirement for the big jets (mainly so you can see who the flight crew are).

I stand to be corrected, but while there may be a regulatory requirement for aircrew to wear distinctive uniforms, I don't believe there is an legal directive that gold stripes and brass hats must be worn.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

nothing like getting into the cockpit on a barmy summer evening with your instructor who has been working all day in the flying greenhouses

Ah yes. Specially if their day job is test flying Hercs -- and they've spent the morning seeing how one behaves with both fans on the same wing turned off. Hard physical work that, it appears.

[ACW 335]

I doubt most people even know what the gold stripes mean?! Maybe they are just 'wannabes'?

My instructor wears a blue woolly pully somtimes but no gold stripes. Again i would say it is the instructor as a person - some people may find the stripes intimidating. I don't - i just think it looks dam siilly on some people...especially when they jump in a shed of a 152

[BeechNut]

I have one of those blue woolly pullovers, but I'm not an instructor, just a 400 hour PPL. No stripes though.

I wear it because it's the warmest bloody sweater in my closet. And I live in Canada, and rather have a weakness for staying warm in winter. In fact it's so warm, I can only really wear it in the coldest weather.

Let's face it, flying a 115 knot Beechcraft is nothing pretentious...

Mike

[Sassenach]

All interesting stuff - keep it coming!

I tend to agree that instructors trying to look like airline pilots just end up looking silly. This always runs through my mind when I see flying school adverts in the back of magazines, with jumped-up newly-qualified instructors blue pullovered and epauletted up to the nines. In my view, just because a school is training potential airline pilots, doesn't mean that silly uniforms are justified either - smart work clothes would be much better. I recently visited the Trafikflyghögskolan at Ljungbyhed in Sweden - all their instructors and students wear flying suits which, as Human Factor said, is far more sensible attire.

I think Dublinpilot's comment about the manner in which questions are answered, is also very important. Students should always be prepared to ask "why?", and not just take their instructor's answer as gospel. If the instructor cannot provide a convincing explanation of something he or she has told you, it's probably rubbish. For example, has anyone asked their instructor to explain why he or she has advocated flapless landings in a crosswind?

[greeners]

Completely agree that flying suits are the only sensible way to go, and b*gg*r the wisecracks. Mind you, most pretentious of all are those who wear flying suits AND four stripes on their shoulders!

Sassenach, I remember trying to get out of Ljungbyhed on a veeery cold and frosty morning a year ago - the car skidding on the way to the hangar was not a great start...

[Genghis the Engineer]

Well, I'm a well known flying suit fan - but don't own any gold bars.

But, a couple of years ago I helped a colleague ferry a new Islander back from Bucharest. I wore my flying suit (in a new aircraft, still in primer, with no trim and a fair number of sharp edges and drafts it was ideal) and he wore a flying instructors jersey with an obscene number of gold bars.

It was quite clear when transiting continental airports that his gold bars carried considerable weight amongst customs officials, airport staff, etc and next I do a similar trip I'll probably invest a tenner in a set of them.

But to be fair to him, I've never seen him wear gold bars at work (he's a working civilian Test Pilot) or at play (he QFIs).

G

[dublinpilot]

Funny you should mention that Gen.

I was just thinking of an article I read in one of the mags a year or two ago, about a group making a flying trip across a number of countries. I think it was around southern Europe & north Africa, but coulnd't be sure.

Anyway they were having some difficulty with customs and decided to try wearing their white shirts and gold bars. Apparently all their customs problems were solved!

dp

[Boing_737]

I read something similar (in Flyer I think). It was the London to Sydney air race and account from one of the crews. They took it in turns to wear the coveted 4 gold bars, and they were worn to get stuff done in some of the more beurocratic countries.

Still no excuse for wearing them when pootling around the circuit though

[Capt. Manuvar]

Most instructors in other industries wear the standard shirt and tie. A lot of people expect a certain level of professionalism from flight schools/instructors. Not everyone learns to fly for the 'love of flying'. There are a lot of people see it as a career or business investment, and will not be too impressed by an FI in flipflops and shorts.
Most PROFESSIONAL pilots wear some form of uniform, i don't think FIs are or should be considered less professional than airline pilots, etc.
Most Police/EMS pilots wear growbags and gold bars and don't look like prats.
I detect a hint of jealousy among the anti-uniform brigade. I can bet you a fiver most of you have wished to have a professional pilot job but never got the chance. there's no point slagging of the fortunate few. I don't think that FIs in uniform look anymore ridiculous than supermarket/fast food workers who have to wear some of the most hideous colour combinations .
In the end of the day, its the individual that counts not the uniform they're wearing.
I'm suprised by the change in attitude towards growbags. a few months ago on this forum, most wouldn't be seen dead in one. there's been a similar change in attitude among private helo pilots towards bone domes. It must be something in the water.
Zlin526
there's more to learning to fly than handling skills. I wouldn't touch that instructor of your with a bargepole, as a give a few $hit$ about fire protection.
Capt. M (off to buy one if those transair 5-gold-bar thingys)

[slim_slag]

Capt. Manuvar,

Who are you kidding? Getting a job as a professional pilot in the late 90's was easier than falling of a log!

So you owe me and quite a few of my mates a fiver.

And only BA captains are allowed to wear 5 bars