The PFA
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Abingdon, Oxfordshire, U.K.
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Spiney,
How can you be wandering off topic on this thread. It has taken over the function of the whole PFA Bulletin board. Unfortunately, it gets just about the same number of posts as the PFA Board did. I still want it back though.
Mike W
How can you be wandering off topic on this thread. It has taken over the function of the whole PFA Bulletin board. Unfortunately, it gets just about the same number of posts as the PFA Board did. I still want it back though.
Mike W
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I do not have the accounts to hand and so have not got a clue how the financial make up of the association is divided over the various activities.
It is obviously tempting to say that the Rally needs to be self funding and if not that it should be axed but that would miss the point completely.
For an association like the PFA to work well one needs to have some joint up thinking and in that I would see a very clear role for the Rally even if it was to be a loss leader.
The number two spectator sport after football in this country is air shows. What does the Rally not have anymore? An air show! Why? Part of the reason IIRC was that it would interfere with the arrival and departure of visitors. The result may well be that a lot of enthusiasts will shun away rather than come, pay and support the event.
One of the main functions of the PFA is to support the permit aircraft and home building. For this there is an extensive network of inspectors and the technical support unit at HQs. The cost of this network and the support from the professionals is extremely inexpensive to the permit holders and it is my impression that a lot of people within the association think that this is the holy grail.
The desire to keep these costs low is noble but may well be artificial. For this it would be interesting to see what fraction of the outlay of the aircraft one pays now for permit issue and renewal compared to say 30 years ago.
The cost of the average homebuilt with the arrival of the new stuff (both kits and modern materials) has soared compared to the previous generations where people built from plans alone.
People are prepared to pay the premiums for that as it gives them the performance they are looking for. Surely a more up to date remuneration for the PFA from this angle would not be out of step.
I fear that if the Rally goes, the PFA will do itself a disservice on the PR front.
I joined the Association at the gates as it seemed good value to join, get a year's membership, 'free' admission, an interesting magazine, support the good cause and fuel my romantic notions that one day I may well build my own.
Reality dictates that the latter is unlikely to ever happen but every year I just get that value feeling reaffirmed and I suspect many 'non building' members with me.
FD
It is obviously tempting to say that the Rally needs to be self funding and if not that it should be axed but that would miss the point completely.
For an association like the PFA to work well one needs to have some joint up thinking and in that I would see a very clear role for the Rally even if it was to be a loss leader.
The number two spectator sport after football in this country is air shows. What does the Rally not have anymore? An air show! Why? Part of the reason IIRC was that it would interfere with the arrival and departure of visitors. The result may well be that a lot of enthusiasts will shun away rather than come, pay and support the event.
One of the main functions of the PFA is to support the permit aircraft and home building. For this there is an extensive network of inspectors and the technical support unit at HQs. The cost of this network and the support from the professionals is extremely inexpensive to the permit holders and it is my impression that a lot of people within the association think that this is the holy grail.
The desire to keep these costs low is noble but may well be artificial. For this it would be interesting to see what fraction of the outlay of the aircraft one pays now for permit issue and renewal compared to say 30 years ago.
The cost of the average homebuilt with the arrival of the new stuff (both kits and modern materials) has soared compared to the previous generations where people built from plans alone.
People are prepared to pay the premiums for that as it gives them the performance they are looking for. Surely a more up to date remuneration for the PFA from this angle would not be out of step.
I fear that if the Rally goes, the PFA will do itself a disservice on the PR front.
I joined the Association at the gates as it seemed good value to join, get a year's membership, 'free' admission, an interesting magazine, support the good cause and fuel my romantic notions that one day I may well build my own.
Reality dictates that the latter is unlikely to ever happen but every year I just get that value feeling reaffirmed and I suspect many 'non building' members with me.
FD
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Burgess Hill, UK
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Some pilots who are PFA members might not be great on the radio, but then again neither are a lot of Club pilots. The difference that I see though, is most PFA pilots can sort themselves out without being told what to do on the radio, whereas a numbe of club pilots cant seem to cope.
I go to a lot of PFA fly-ins and cant remember many at airfields with ATC. So I'm not sure of where the original poster on this subject was thinking of. Ludwig suggested a fly-in at an airfield with full ATC and turn away those who arent great on the radio! Interesting. Last fly-in I went to where there was full ATC was so bad because ATC couldnt cope with the arrival rate of aircraft and there werent that many! So if you want an interesting fly-in dont go to somewhere with full ATC.
As for the infringements of Lyneham during the PFA rally. You will find that most of the identified aircraft were either foreign visitors, or club aircraft. So probably not many PFA members there. The one aircraft that got investigated further by the CAA was a PA-28 from somewhere up north, Teeside I think. He made an approach to Lyneham, only went around after flares were fired at him. Then flew through the South Cernay parachute drop zone before making an approach at Aston Down. He did eventually find Kemble!
Watching the rally arrivals and being involved in the brieifings for departures, we see that there are the odd idiots in PFA aircraft, but by far the majority who do stupid things like orbits on final or dont follow the procedures are in factory built club/private aircraft, of course they could be PFA members too, but maybe not. Most of the people who dont understand the departure procedures seem to be factory built aircraft pilots. Similary are the pilots who call up for joining instructions, having not read the AIC!! Including a Citation on a company flight one day at Cranfield!
Someone commented about not attracting people because of no airshow. This is not the case, in previous years when there has been an airshow, the numbers have not been any different, the airshow has not attracted any extra visitors. Most people who come, are there to see the vast array of aircraft flying in, meet up with their friends, look at the exhibits, rather than being at just another airshow.
Anyway, the good news is that despite a few rumours to the contrary, the PFA rally is definitly on this year. This has been confirmed by Steve Petter, the Rally Chairman following a PFA Executive Comittee meeting last night.
Exhibitor bookings are picking up and two major sponsors have signed up.
So see you all at Europe's best aviation event at Kemble 9,10,11 July.
I go to a lot of PFA fly-ins and cant remember many at airfields with ATC. So I'm not sure of where the original poster on this subject was thinking of. Ludwig suggested a fly-in at an airfield with full ATC and turn away those who arent great on the radio! Interesting. Last fly-in I went to where there was full ATC was so bad because ATC couldnt cope with the arrival rate of aircraft and there werent that many! So if you want an interesting fly-in dont go to somewhere with full ATC.
As for the infringements of Lyneham during the PFA rally. You will find that most of the identified aircraft were either foreign visitors, or club aircraft. So probably not many PFA members there. The one aircraft that got investigated further by the CAA was a PA-28 from somewhere up north, Teeside I think. He made an approach to Lyneham, only went around after flares were fired at him. Then flew through the South Cernay parachute drop zone before making an approach at Aston Down. He did eventually find Kemble!
Watching the rally arrivals and being involved in the brieifings for departures, we see that there are the odd idiots in PFA aircraft, but by far the majority who do stupid things like orbits on final or dont follow the procedures are in factory built club/private aircraft, of course they could be PFA members too, but maybe not. Most of the people who dont understand the departure procedures seem to be factory built aircraft pilots. Similary are the pilots who call up for joining instructions, having not read the AIC!! Including a Citation on a company flight one day at Cranfield!
Someone commented about not attracting people because of no airshow. This is not the case, in previous years when there has been an airshow, the numbers have not been any different, the airshow has not attracted any extra visitors. Most people who come, are there to see the vast array of aircraft flying in, meet up with their friends, look at the exhibits, rather than being at just another airshow.
Anyway, the good news is that despite a few rumours to the contrary, the PFA rally is definitly on this year. This has been confirmed by Steve Petter, the Rally Chairman following a PFA Executive Comittee meeting last night.
Exhibitor bookings are picking up and two major sponsors have signed up.
So see you all at Europe's best aviation event at Kemble 9,10,11 July.
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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A lot of what has been said about poor airmanship should certainly not be confined to PFA flyers.
Would you not agree that if someone who may be a very experienced pilot but flys locally from a farm strip and rarely visits large airports will soon loose the ability to stay sharp on the radio.
The licence revaladition system should provide for this using flights with instructors to encourage such pilots to conduct a few flights to ATC airports and around some busy airspace.
I normally fly from an international airport where everyone is used to being told what to do and where to go and most are very sharp on the radio. However such pilots when visiting a flyin or rally often expect the ATC to give onward instructions before the will make the next turn. then when they are not being "minded" by ATC they can cause just as much difficulty as those who know what to do but can't speak on the radio.
I also fly a Rallye aircraft from a farm strip so I tend to meet three types of pilots. Some who "can talk and not fly" and others who "can fly but not talk" and "some who can do both"
Inspite of all that most will find their way around the sky and most will keep out of trouble and as far as I am concerned the more who keep flying the better, PFA or other.
Tony Ringland
PS. beginning of which week will the PFA BB be back???
Would you not agree that if someone who may be a very experienced pilot but flys locally from a farm strip and rarely visits large airports will soon loose the ability to stay sharp on the radio.
The licence revaladition system should provide for this using flights with instructors to encourage such pilots to conduct a few flights to ATC airports and around some busy airspace.
I normally fly from an international airport where everyone is used to being told what to do and where to go and most are very sharp on the radio. However such pilots when visiting a flyin or rally often expect the ATC to give onward instructions before the will make the next turn. then when they are not being "minded" by ATC they can cause just as much difficulty as those who know what to do but can't speak on the radio.
I also fly a Rallye aircraft from a farm strip so I tend to meet three types of pilots. Some who "can talk and not fly" and others who "can fly but not talk" and "some who can do both"
Inspite of all that most will find their way around the sky and most will keep out of trouble and as far as I am concerned the more who keep flying the better, PFA or other.
Tony Ringland
PS. beginning of which week will the PFA BB be back???
Join Date: Aug 2001
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CF,
Good news that the Rally is definitely on.
I will enjoy coming along and having a look.
Have to say that the (apparent) rumours were yet another hiccough which made me wonder whether all is well with the PFA.
FD
Good news that the Rally is definitely on.
I will enjoy coming along and having a look.
Have to say that the (apparent) rumours were yet another hiccough which made me wonder whether all is well with the PFA.
FD
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Cubflyer / Flying Dutch -
Good news indeed that the rally is on. Lets hope for good weather and a big turn-out. Hopefully, the Association can put some of the recent acrimony behind it and start to look forwards again. A Pprune meet-up perhaps?
Mr. W
PS. TonyR - re the BB - don't you know - Tommorrow never comes!
Good news indeed that the rally is on. Lets hope for good weather and a big turn-out. Hopefully, the Association can put some of the recent acrimony behind it and start to look forwards again. A Pprune meet-up perhaps?
Mr. W
PS. TonyR - re the BB - don't you know - Tommorrow never comes!
Join Date: Sep 2002
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We hope to re-open the bulletin early next week - apologies for any inconvenience caused.
If it were "We hope to re-open the bulletin on the 29th" (of February) we would, in the fullness of time, eventually get there.
Mike
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R.I.P. pfa bb
I think we must say goodbye to the PFA BB, even with the new head of engineering in place they cannot seem to fix the problem.
At least free speach is still available on this forum.
Pfa BB RIP
At least free speach is still available on this forum.
Pfa BB RIP
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Gone.........for good this time.
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The passing of the PFA BB is no great loss. Most of it consisted of petty bickering amongst members about useless trivia. I resigned from the PFA years ago because of that very reason.
At least Ppruners bicker about interesting things!
At least Ppruners bicker about interesting things!
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"Did the previous Head of Engineering not make the move to Turweston?"
There was no such post at Shoreham. The Director of Engineering was appointed so to allow the Chief Engineer and Deputy Chief Engineer to concentrate upon their day jobs, ie approving aircraft and mods for flight.
The Dir of Engineering has a broader role and it encompasses such things as governance, CAA liason and liason with the plethora of associated bodies and parties that were preventing the CE and DCE from turning around work packages with the speed that was desired of them.
Hope that this helps,
Stik
There was no such post at Shoreham. The Director of Engineering was appointed so to allow the Chief Engineer and Deputy Chief Engineer to concentrate upon their day jobs, ie approving aircraft and mods for flight.
The Dir of Engineering has a broader role and it encompasses such things as governance, CAA liason and liason with the plethora of associated bodies and parties that were preventing the CE and DCE from turning around work packages with the speed that was desired of them.
Hope that this helps,
Stik
Join Date: Sep 2003
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PFA emails and spam
I've suddenly started getting loads of spam to my .ukpilots.net email address. This is a pfa email account and has always been very spam free. Am I the only one or has somebody now managed to harvest the PFA's email account holders list?
SS
SS
Join Date: Sep 2003
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PFA email adress and spam???
I've suddenly started getting loads of spam to my .ukpilots.net email address. This is a pfa email account and has always been very spam free. Am I the only one or has somebody now managed to harvest the PFA's email account holders list?
SS
SS
Join Date: Sep 2002
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They'll probably claim it as a membership benefit 
Do you subscribe to any mailing list with that address? I've got an email address that is used only for the Flyer list, and that's now getting spammed frequently - at some point an email with my address on must have been copied elsewhere and harvested...
Do you subscribe to any mailing list with that address? I've got an email address that is used only for the Flyer list, and that's now getting spammed frequently - at some point an email with my address on must have been copied elsewhere and harvested...
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Nothing new mailing list wise. I thought about it after and looked at a message "properties" it looks like it is a .ukpilots.net problem as the spams are going to loads of other pfa email addresses too.
b
y shame as it was my one spam free address
SS
b
y shame as it was my one spam free address SS
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I registered on the Flyer Forum last week using my "best" spam-free email address (stupid, yes, I know) and it as received about 5 spams a day since.
Could be a coincidence, but I doubt it.
TallGuy.
Could be a coincidence, but I doubt it.
TallGuy.