Pilot Magazine Watch Offer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: northants
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Never mind the bl**dy watch, how about if they actually send the magazine instead.
Quote from Pilot magazine web site
"you will also receive Pilot magazine each month, hot off the presses. Subscribers' copies of Pilot are posted a few days in advance of the magazine going on sale in newsagents. You need never miss a copy again!
I am still waiting for the latest Pilot magazine.
Three phone calls, and three promised "I'll get the copy out today" and I am still waiting. Could have bought the Feb issue 2 weeks ago from the flying school.
Quote from Pilot magazine web site
"you will also receive Pilot magazine each month, hot off the presses. Subscribers' copies of Pilot are posted a few days in advance of the magazine going on sale in newsagents. You need never miss a copy again!
I am still waiting for the latest Pilot magazine.
Three phone calls, and three promised "I'll get the copy out today" and I am still waiting. Could have bought the Feb issue 2 weeks ago from the flying school.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yakker,
Please email me direct - [email protected]
I'd like to get you a copy asap and also find out who you spoke to.
Please email me direct - [email protected]
I'd like to get you a copy asap and also find out who you spoke to.
Sink The Pink
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: age Frais
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glad you said that yakker.
I didn't renew my subscription for that very reason.
I learned a good lesson with tall the hassle I had with getting my subscription copies through. That lesson was.....if you haven't got staff who are good with customers, don't put an email contact adress in your magazine. If you have got staff who clearly don't give a chuff for their customers, don't bother even offering them free gifts, they 'aint gonna come back.
Sorry Sam, but I believe you have opened up a can of worms for yourself now that you have revealed your identity. Perhaps you should take a leaf out of Mr Seager's checklist, his only post here has been professional, quite funny and unbiased.
When there was one mag we had no choice.
When there were two mags people were prepared to buy both.
Now there are three, I don't think the Pilot boys can face up to the fact that they're resting on their laurels somewhat.
I didn't renew my subscription for that very reason.
I learned a good lesson with tall the hassle I had with getting my subscription copies through. That lesson was.....if you haven't got staff who are good with customers, don't put an email contact adress in your magazine. If you have got staff who clearly don't give a chuff for their customers, don't bother even offering them free gifts, they 'aint gonna come back.
Sorry Sam, but I believe you have opened up a can of worms for yourself now that you have revealed your identity. Perhaps you should take a leaf out of Mr Seager's checklist, his only post here has been professional, quite funny and unbiased.
When there was one mag we had no choice.
When there were two mags people were prepared to buy both.
Now there are three, I don't think the Pilot boys can face up to the fact that they're resting on their laurels somewhat.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sam I hope this dosn't come across as a bit cheeky but...
All the mags are either ppl only and only deal with VFR flying. Which i will admit is proberly a very high percentage of your readers.
How about some more technical flying articles?
Not really the spanner stuff although a few of them wouldn't go a miss.
But finer points of instrument flying and the common cockups flying certain procedures. And examples of what to do when ATC require you to step outside SOPs. Ie max speed until 4dme etc.
You could even case study particular horrible ones. Faro islands, the cloud break at SUM comes to mind.
A case example or 2 of common incidents detailing what the pilots problems were and how they dealt with them and the process which is going on with ATC dealing with the problem.
Off the top of my head
Pilots entering IMC
Unsure of position
Rough engine
Bad wx
I know from nights in the pub. What ATC have been told what we will do is quite different than in real life. And also I didn't have a clue the processes or the resources available to me as a pilot through ATC if required, until these pub nights.
You never know it may help ppl's see the benifit of keeping a IMC not only valid but also current.
MJ
All the mags are either ppl only and only deal with VFR flying. Which i will admit is proberly a very high percentage of your readers.
How about some more technical flying articles?
Not really the spanner stuff although a few of them wouldn't go a miss.
But finer points of instrument flying and the common cockups flying certain procedures. And examples of what to do when ATC require you to step outside SOPs. Ie max speed until 4dme etc.
You could even case study particular horrible ones. Faro islands, the cloud break at SUM comes to mind.
A case example or 2 of common incidents detailing what the pilots problems were and how they dealt with them and the process which is going on with ATC dealing with the problem.
Off the top of my head
Pilots entering IMC
Unsure of position
Rough engine
Bad wx
I know from nights in the pub. What ATC have been told what we will do is quite different than in real life. And also I didn't have a clue the processes or the resources available to me as a pilot through ATC if required, until these pub nights.
You never know it may help ppl's see the benifit of keeping a IMC not only valid but also current.
MJ
)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mad_jock
I agree entirely regarding the very low-end coverage in the UK mags, but they are probably reflecting the bulk of their readership: low time PPL pilots (perhaps < 10hrs/year), antique type owners (usually very low time too), plane spotters.
And I bet most of the readership is skint, so little point in articles about modern planes, modern nav methods, etc.
Very very occassionally an article appears which addresses something a bit higher up but then it often contains what I consider gross errors - probably gets printed because nobody on the staff is any different from the above mentioned readership. Flyer is occassionally OK.
I agree entirely regarding the very low-end coverage in the UK mags, but they are probably reflecting the bulk of their readership: low time PPL pilots (perhaps < 10hrs/year), antique type owners (usually very low time too), plane spotters.
And I bet most of the readership is skint, so little point in articles about modern planes, modern nav methods, etc.
Very very occassionally an article appears which addresses something a bit higher up but then it often contains what I consider gross errors - probably gets printed because nobody on the staff is any different from the above mentioned readership. Flyer is occassionally OK.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am a born engineer with the dyslexia to prove it.
Attempting to sit down and write something which isn't a spontanious commiting to paper is akin to torture for me.
Hence I now work as a pilot not a Mechanical Engineer which required reports to be written. Thats not the only reason, if i had had the chance at 17 I would never have gone to Uni,.But hey who knows I use my engineering knowlege and problem solving everyday at work as a pilot.
But why is JF such a strong pulling point for Flyer? His stuff is very broad based which appeals to all aviators. Its the way the technical stuff is written which makes the difference. Unfortunatly most technical pieces are written in the style of Thom and as soon as most ppl's start reading that style will switch off after the pain of the PPL exams. Personally I don't have a problem reading Engineering style reports its actually easier for me than normal newspaper stuff because i only have to read 10% of the piece to get the full content ( its a dyxie thing skim reading only lifting the keywords and data but you need to have some knowledge of the subject to fill the rest in). And also most of these writers have forgotten that a picture says a 1000 words.
I am not saying the pieces should be huge like the "I flew the wife up to Kirkwall for a shag via Oban and Stornway" type stuff.
Just short simple page long stuff which deals with topics which everyone can relate to in theory if not in practise.
MJ
Attempting to sit down and write something which isn't a spontanious commiting to paper is akin to torture for me.
Hence I now work as a pilot not a Mechanical Engineer which required reports to be written. Thats not the only reason, if i had had the chance at 17 I would never have gone to Uni,.But hey who knows I use my engineering knowlege and problem solving everyday at work as a pilot.
But why is JF such a strong pulling point for Flyer? His stuff is very broad based which appeals to all aviators. Its the way the technical stuff is written which makes the difference. Unfortunatly most technical pieces are written in the style of Thom and as soon as most ppl's start reading that style will switch off after the pain of the PPL exams. Personally I don't have a problem reading Engineering style reports its actually easier for me than normal newspaper stuff because i only have to read 10% of the piece to get the full content ( its a dyxie thing skim reading only lifting the keywords and data but you need to have some knowledge of the subject to fill the rest in). And also most of these writers have forgotten that a picture says a 1000 words.
I am not saying the pieces should be huge like the "I flew the wife up to Kirkwall for a shag via Oban and Stornway" type stuff.
Just short simple page long stuff which deals with topics which everyone can relate to in theory if not in practise.
MJ
Last edited by mad_jock; 5th Feb 2004 at 21:45.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know that this thread started off about a cheapo watch offer, but now that it has quickly descended into a general magazine bashing exercise I thought I'd stick my oar in too.
It strikes me that all 3 mainstream magazines have become sad clones of each other. This months Ultimate High cover feature in Pilot tells us nothing that the seemingly identical article in Flyer did a few months ago. Why can't the commisioning editors see that recycling other peoples good ideas is going to increase the readerships boredom rather than their own circulation figures.
All aircraft flight tests read as identi-kit articles and are often so turgid and unimaginative as to make aircrafts actual POH look like a literarcy masterpeice by comparison. It is the writing equivilent of "painting by numbers". Further more, the constant references to "as we turned onto base we lowered 30 degrees of flap" rather than "I" lowered 30 degrees of flap does give the nagging doubt that it is the factory demonstration pilot rather than the writer doing the flying (or is that just me)?
Articles based on peoples flying holidays are often about as interesting as your neighbours holiday snaps (which in reality is pretty much all the articles add up to anyway). The content of these articles is never far away from woke up at X, had breakfast, flew to Y, had lunch, then flew to Z, had dinner then went to bed (x 7 or 10 days etc.). It's probably very interesting to the author, but not usually that exciting to the readership at large. These articles are only salvaged on the rare occasions that a) there is an actual purpose to the flying, b) the destination and/or flying experience are truly unique or c) the author is a good enough snapper to pad out the prose with some above average pictures.
What is missing from the vast majority all articles in these magazines is originality and an element of passion. The reason that JF is so well thought of is that his knowledge and authority are beyond doubt but more importantly there is a "spark" and enthusiasm that shines through his writing. The only decent article in this months crop of magazines in Bob Grimstead and family having a go at tandem skydiving. (I've no interest in the subject matter itself but the quality of both writing and photography made it a great read). One of the 3 mainstram mags could do worse than give our own PA her own column as her trials and tribulations on her way to her PPL would certainly inject some life and humour into the magazine.
As Mad Jock says a wider imagination when it comes to commisioning articles with more challanging content from people who can REALLY write would start to transform the magazines. I know a number of posters to this forum are also bikers. For those that aren't have a look at a copy of "Bike" magazine. The quality and passion of some of the writing far surpasses what is in the average flying mag. Some of these journos seem to enjoy a regular adrenaline rush - why not commision one of them to do his PPL or an aeros course and see what his account is like. Dave Calderwood, editor of Pilot, is an ex- bike mag journo I seem to remember so maybe he can give the mag a good kick up the @rse.
Anyway, sorry - Rant over.
Mr. W
It strikes me that all 3 mainstream magazines have become sad clones of each other. This months Ultimate High cover feature in Pilot tells us nothing that the seemingly identical article in Flyer did a few months ago. Why can't the commisioning editors see that recycling other peoples good ideas is going to increase the readerships boredom rather than their own circulation figures.
All aircraft flight tests read as identi-kit articles and are often so turgid and unimaginative as to make aircrafts actual POH look like a literarcy masterpeice by comparison. It is the writing equivilent of "painting by numbers". Further more, the constant references to "as we turned onto base we lowered 30 degrees of flap" rather than "I" lowered 30 degrees of flap does give the nagging doubt that it is the factory demonstration pilot rather than the writer doing the flying (or is that just me)?
Articles based on peoples flying holidays are often about as interesting as your neighbours holiday snaps (which in reality is pretty much all the articles add up to anyway). The content of these articles is never far away from woke up at X, had breakfast, flew to Y, had lunch, then flew to Z, had dinner then went to bed (x 7 or 10 days etc.). It's probably very interesting to the author, but not usually that exciting to the readership at large. These articles are only salvaged on the rare occasions that a) there is an actual purpose to the flying, b) the destination and/or flying experience are truly unique or c) the author is a good enough snapper to pad out the prose with some above average pictures.
What is missing from the vast majority all articles in these magazines is originality and an element of passion. The reason that JF is so well thought of is that his knowledge and authority are beyond doubt but more importantly there is a "spark" and enthusiasm that shines through his writing. The only decent article in this months crop of magazines in Bob Grimstead and family having a go at tandem skydiving. (I've no interest in the subject matter itself but the quality of both writing and photography made it a great read). One of the 3 mainstram mags could do worse than give our own PA her own column as her trials and tribulations on her way to her PPL would certainly inject some life and humour into the magazine.
As Mad Jock says a wider imagination when it comes to commisioning articles with more challanging content from people who can REALLY write would start to transform the magazines. I know a number of posters to this forum are also bikers. For those that aren't have a look at a copy of "Bike" magazine. The quality and passion of some of the writing far surpasses what is in the average flying mag. Some of these journos seem to enjoy a regular adrenaline rush - why not commision one of them to do his PPL or an aeros course and see what his account is like. Dave Calderwood, editor of Pilot, is an ex- bike mag journo I seem to remember so maybe he can give the mag a good kick up the @rse.
Anyway, sorry - Rant over.
Mr. W
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chichester, UK
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMHO - if you want a really good read, join (the original USA) AOPA and get their magazine. Far, far better than the UK competition and with the dollar where it is international membership costs the same as - or possibly slightly less than - a one-year P*lot sub. The UK AOPA mag is also good, but sadly it's also got less content and membership is a lot more expensive...
I do subscribe to both Flyer and Pilot, although i'm increasingly wondering why - especially with Pilot. I agree with Mr. Wolfie, I'm fed up with reading reviews of the same aeroplane/course/whatever in both. Flyer at least has John F and Irv.
Edit: while i'm on my soapbox, i'm fed up with fuggin' articles about flying from here to bogdovia. Took off. Landed. Had lunch. Put fuel in aeroplane. Took off. Landed. Bit overcast. Had lunch. Repeat for four pages... it's good cheap filler from someone who took a few pictures, but it's no use to anybody and oh so dull...
I do subscribe to both Flyer and Pilot, although i'm increasingly wondering why - especially with Pilot. I agree with Mr. Wolfie, I'm fed up with reading reviews of the same aeroplane/course/whatever in both. Flyer at least has John F and Irv.
Edit: while i'm on my soapbox, i'm fed up with fuggin' articles about flying from here to bogdovia. Took off. Landed. Had lunch. Put fuel in aeroplane. Took off. Landed. Bit overcast. Had lunch. Repeat for four pages... it's good cheap filler from someone who took a few pictures, but it's no use to anybody and oh so dull...
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree entirely regarding the very low-end coverage in the UK mags, but they are probably reflecting the bulk of their readership: low time PPL pilots (perhaps < 10hrs/year), antique type owners (usually very low time too), plane spotters.
And I bet most of the readership is skint, so little point in articles about modern planes, modern nav methods, etc.
Very very occassionally an article appears which addresses something a bit higher up but then it often contains what I consider gross errors - probably gets printed because nobody on the staff is any different from the above mentioned readership. Flyer is occassionally OK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
IO540
Antique owners low time? There may be some (but < 10 hours, no way), but most are masters of their craft - they need to be to keep the sharp handling skills those types demand so have to put in regular hands-on hours. No autopilot in a Stampe. Not many skint Spit owners, either.
And for coverage of 'modern planes', go buy yourself a copy of 'Practical Woodworker'.
SSD
Last edited by Shaggy Sheep Driver; 6th Feb 2004 at 17:05.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Brighton. UK. (Via Liverpool).
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know that this thread started off about a cheapo watch offer, but now that it has quickly descended into a general magazine bashing exercise
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote : general magazine bashing exercise
Actually no it isn't. It is turning into an exercise in the bashing of one particular magazine - and why not?. Any magazine which ignores the needs of the readership base deserves to be bashed.
FLYER does not get bashed. TP does not get bashed.
The broad concensus of this thread, and of this forum, is clear PILOT is XXXX and PPRUNE probably provides better content.
Being involved in the magazine world I know that a magazine editor and publisher lives by his last circulation figures. Circulation going down when competitor circulation is increasing usually means reaching for the C/V. Circulation increasing usually means a bonus.
Every magazine needs to find its place in the market. It is not just raw numbers but who the people are behind the numbers that matters.
Those who participate in this thread have made their own decision and they have every right to do so.
Personally I read them all and find certain elements of each to be good and certain elements of each to be poor. Offering me a watch will make no difference to my reading habits (nor probably my flying skills). Presumably to some people it swings the balance between subscribing to one mag and another and as the newstrade mags exit for profit one can only assume that there is some long term positive effect from offers of this nature.
Ultimately though the newstrade mags will stand or fall on achieving the right audience for their advertisers. The posters on PPRUNE are obviously going to do little to line the pockets of PILOT. The evidence here is that FLYER is tops, TP inoffensive, and PILOT is crap (the AOPA mag stands apart as a non newstrade mag). Evidence from other sources might suggest a different pattern.
Surely this rich tapestry of opinions and evidence is something which makes the world a better place. If not we would all be flying similar aircraft having travelled to the airfield in similar cars.
I'm with the Wolf in looking for better and more varied content. F3Greens is right this is all feedback. Whether some of the publishers will regard it as valuable and free (assuming that criticism dents sales and therefore costs) it remains to be seen.
Actually no it isn't. It is turning into an exercise in the bashing of one particular magazine - and why not?. Any magazine which ignores the needs of the readership base deserves to be bashed.
FLYER does not get bashed. TP does not get bashed.
The broad concensus of this thread, and of this forum, is clear PILOT is XXXX and PPRUNE probably provides better content.
Being involved in the magazine world I know that a magazine editor and publisher lives by his last circulation figures. Circulation going down when competitor circulation is increasing usually means reaching for the C/V. Circulation increasing usually means a bonus.
Every magazine needs to find its place in the market. It is not just raw numbers but who the people are behind the numbers that matters.
Those who participate in this thread have made their own decision and they have every right to do so.
Personally I read them all and find certain elements of each to be good and certain elements of each to be poor. Offering me a watch will make no difference to my reading habits (nor probably my flying skills). Presumably to some people it swings the balance between subscribing to one mag and another and as the newstrade mags exit for profit one can only assume that there is some long term positive effect from offers of this nature.
Ultimately though the newstrade mags will stand or fall on achieving the right audience for their advertisers. The posters on PPRUNE are obviously going to do little to line the pockets of PILOT. The evidence here is that FLYER is tops, TP inoffensive, and PILOT is crap (the AOPA mag stands apart as a non newstrade mag). Evidence from other sources might suggest a different pattern.
Surely this rich tapestry of opinions and evidence is something which makes the world a better place. If not we would all be flying similar aircraft having travelled to the airfield in similar cars.
I'm with the Wolf in looking for better and more varied content. F3Greens is right this is all feedback. Whether some of the publishers will regard it as valuable and free (assuming that criticism dents sales and therefore costs) it remains to be seen.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chichester, UK
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FLYER does not get bashed. TP does not get bashed.
The other reason people bash Pilot is that it used to be really good and has declined. I'd guess most people who have read it for more than a couple of years still expect better.
Being involved in the magazine world I know that a magazine editor and publisher lives by his last circulation figures. Circulation going down when competitor circulation is increasing usually means reaching for the C/V. Circulation increasing usually means a bonus.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Brighton. UK. (Via Liverpool).
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, my gripe now is the way it has gone right off the scale for thread hi-jacking. It started with a question about a watch and this has still not been answered and never will if the thread continues to go the way it is.
Straight from the horses mouth. Feedback regarding magazines content, not a bit about the original question at all. You want feedback you will get it here both good and bad but please leave this thread alone and start another flying mag bashing/feedback thread. Yellow card time guys.
Now then Sam, about this watch you were going to send us......
F3Greens is right this is all feedback.
Now then Sam, about this watch you were going to send us......
Bringing the thread swiftly back on track, has anybody got one of these wonder watches yet?
Will they admit it?
Did they keep it?
Did they indeed pass it on to an unsuspecting relative, friend, domestic animal?
Will they admit it?
Did they keep it?
Did they indeed pass it on to an unsuspecting relative, friend, domestic animal?
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BRL
I thought that was the point about free speach and forums of this sort?.
Personally I would rather hear about the watch which I have been unable to get my hands on but then the debate which seems to generate the greater interest (as always) is that which surrounds the magazines available to us in the U.K.
I suppose you could just change the topic line then it wouldnt be 'off topic'!.
Apparently the watcvhes have been popular which presumably means people have taken out subs with a watch. So someone must have one unless the watch went straight in the bin. Reviews of said watch please as I guess the magazines wont rewiew it!
I thought that was the point about free speach and forums of this sort?.
Personally I would rather hear about the watch which I have been unable to get my hands on but then the debate which seems to generate the greater interest (as always) is that which surrounds the magazines available to us in the U.K.
I suppose you could just change the topic line then it wouldnt be 'off topic'!.
Apparently the watcvhes have been popular which presumably means people have taken out subs with a watch. So someone must have one unless the watch went straight in the bin. Reviews of said watch please as I guess the magazines wont rewiew it!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Brighton. UK. (Via Liverpool).
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2Donks, then start an interesting thread about the subject then if you feel like it. Just don't use this one which is about watches not quality of mags.
FF. Free speach and all that I agree with 100%, thread hi-jacking I don't. Simple realy. The guy asked a question about a watch, not how good/crap flying magazines are.
FF. Free speach and all that I agree with 100%, thread hi-jacking I don't. Simple realy. The guy asked a question about a watch, not how good/crap flying magazines are.