Passengers handling the controls
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Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
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From: UK
Having started this fuss off, I think I should probably say something.
The reason I posted the question was quite straightforward. I'm in a large syndicate operating a straightforward 4-seater (A PA28 ). Recently at a syndicate meeting another member (a very experienced LAME whose hobby is private flying) ranted that nobody should be allowing their passengers to handle the controls since it was illegal (in his belief) unless the captain was an instructor.
Now I've never had any problem about allowing a sensible pax to fly my aeroplane for a bit, and have done on numerous occasions. I've even been advised to do so with nervous passengers by some very experienced instructors - so I was pretty damned certain that the fellow was wrong. But, I couldn't find anything which said so; but in the words of a retired department head at CAA "if you can't afford the answer, don't ask the question", so I wasn't going to be so daft as to ask the CAA.
So, I posted a question here hoping that somebody would know if there was a rule anywhere that I could use to point out to my colleague that he was talking rubbish.
Well, having posted the question, I've to my surprise started a thread of terrifying proportions, and let's be honest, not actually highlighted any regulation either permitting or prohibiting what most of us consider a perfectly acceptable practice. So, I shall tell my friend that he's wrong unless he can prove otherwise, and continue allowing my friends and family to fly on trips so that I can enjoy the view.
Happy new year everybody,
Genghis.
The reason I posted the question was quite straightforward. I'm in a large syndicate operating a straightforward 4-seater (A PA28 ). Recently at a syndicate meeting another member (a very experienced LAME whose hobby is private flying) ranted that nobody should be allowing their passengers to handle the controls since it was illegal (in his belief) unless the captain was an instructor.
Now I've never had any problem about allowing a sensible pax to fly my aeroplane for a bit, and have done on numerous occasions. I've even been advised to do so with nervous passengers by some very experienced instructors - so I was pretty damned certain that the fellow was wrong. But, I couldn't find anything which said so; but in the words of a retired department head at CAA "if you can't afford the answer, don't ask the question", so I wasn't going to be so daft as to ask the CAA.
So, I posted a question here hoping that somebody would know if there was a rule anywhere that I could use to point out to my colleague that he was talking rubbish.
Well, having posted the question, I've to my surprise started a thread of terrifying proportions, and let's be honest, not actually highlighted any regulation either permitting or prohibiting what most of us consider a perfectly acceptable practice. So, I shall tell my friend that he's wrong unless he can prove otherwise, and continue allowing my friends and family to fly on trips so that I can enjoy the view.
Happy new year everybody,
Genghis.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver Island
Genghis :
Your thread is wonderful, everyone joined in and we had a real good discussion....
There is no regulation anywhere on earth specifically denying you the right to let someone enjoy the thrill of guiding a flying machine throught the air, providing it has dual controls and you use common sense in what you allow the person to do.
Even your friend who got you going on this benefits......
He can now read all these posts and realize just how disconnected he is from reality... Hopefully he does not get a job with your CAA you have enough problems there now.
Hey, I'll do my good deed for the year, next time I'm in London have him get together with me and I will attempt to re educate him so he can join the rest of us who actually understand the subject.
Chuck
Your thread is wonderful, everyone joined in and we had a real good discussion....
There is no regulation anywhere on earth specifically denying you the right to let someone enjoy the thrill of guiding a flying machine throught the air, providing it has dual controls and you use common sense in what you allow the person to do.
Even your friend who got you going on this benefits......
He can now read all these posts and realize just how disconnected he is from reality... Hopefully he does not get a job with your CAA you have enough problems there now.
Hey, I'll do my good deed for the year, next time I'm in London have him get together with me and I will attempt to re educate him so he can join the rest of us who actually understand the subject.
Chuck
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 2
From: Europe
Chuck,
Next time you come to London could you let us/me know as I would be keen to meet up and buy you a beer or two and have a good chat in a real rather than this virtual bar!
And if you would be ameniable to some flying I would be keen to be shown a few tricks by a true master in the art of aviating.
FD
PS: Tried to sent you a PM but your mail box is full
Next time you come to London could you let us/me know as I would be keen to meet up and buy you a beer or two and have a good chat in a real rather than this virtual bar!
And if you would be ameniable to some flying I would be keen to be shown a few tricks by a true master in the art of aviating.
FD
PS: Tried to sent you a PM but your mail box is full
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: North Kent
Hmmm,
Sure I didn't spot this in the thread so here goes!
What about the AOPA "Flying Companions" Certificate? That is 8 hours dual and 10 hours ground in the aircraft regularly flown by the P1.
How does that fit in to all this in terms of legality?
SteveO (37hrs closer to my NPPL)
Sure I didn't spot this in the thread so here goes!
What about the AOPA "Flying Companions" Certificate? That is 8 hours dual and 10 hours ground in the aircraft regularly flown by the P1.
How does that fit in to all this in terms of legality?
SteveO (37hrs closer to my NPPL)
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 0
From: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
It's not a licence or a rating. Any training given towards it would therefore not be for the grant of a licence and the instructor would not need to hold an FI rating.
This is the legal position, the common sense one is entirely different.
Mike
This is the legal position, the common sense one is entirely different.
Mike
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Isle of Man
So some of the superstars on this forum can fly solo after 3.5 hours.....our instructors can let us loose on our own when they deem we're ready, but we mustn't let anyone touch the controls.....
Hmmmm
A bit confusing
Hmmmm
A bit confusing
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
From: Canada
So, I shall tell my friend that he's wrong unless he can prove otherwise, and continue allowing my friends and family to fly on trips so that I can enjoy the view.
If I were you, I would be inclined to let him think whatever he likes, and simply go on doing my own thing.
That's my free legal advice; but do whatever you think best!
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver Island
It may be that those who do not feel you should let Granny have a go at the controls are acting from a position of insecurity in their own ability to over power Granny if she suddenly freezes on the controls?
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,547
Likes: 0
From: Dublin
Or they think that they are previliged, and no one else should be let try it.
God forbid, but they might realise it's not that hard!
Or maybe they will like it, and decided to get their own ppl, and he won't be the only one of his friends that can fly.
God forbid, but they might realise it's not that hard!
Or maybe they will like it, and decided to get their own ppl, and he won't be the only one of his friends that can fly.
