Do I Need a GPS?
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KCDW
It would appear to me that in suggesting somebody buys the cheapest GPS is the worst of the possible options.
They don't have aviation databases. One of the great anti-gross-error features of a GPS is the ability to construct the entire journey from items within its database. These would be airfields, VORs, NDBs, even airway intersections.
I strongly suspect that the majority of cases where people got into a total mess with a GPS (e.g. ended up 20 miles off and in the middle of CAS) were the result of entering user waypoints, and getting them wrong. And perhaps using a GPS from a camping shop; one which doesn't show the flight plan as a whole. With a moving-map GPS one can display the whole flight plan and that provides a good error check but if there is no moving map then ....
Strafer
There seems to be a two camps here who are convinced that one side are Luddites who only advocate "WW1" flying and another who think the other side can't tell where they are unless Mr Garmin tells them.
It looks like you are generalising almost as much as I do
Not at all - to a PPL flying VFR I would suggest using a GPS CONCURRENTLY with map reading and the plog. It's a very easy process. The plog then doesn't really need to have wind in it (because the GPS shows your drift clearly) and that in turn eliminates any need for using the slide rule for anything at all. Controversial? Of course.
It would appear to me that in suggesting somebody buys the cheapest GPS is the worst of the possible options.
They don't have aviation databases. One of the great anti-gross-error features of a GPS is the ability to construct the entire journey from items within its database. These would be airfields, VORs, NDBs, even airway intersections.
I strongly suspect that the majority of cases where people got into a total mess with a GPS (e.g. ended up 20 miles off and in the middle of CAS) were the result of entering user waypoints, and getting them wrong. And perhaps using a GPS from a camping shop; one which doesn't show the flight plan as a whole. With a moving-map GPS one can display the whole flight plan and that provides a good error check but if there is no moving map then ....
Strafer
There seems to be a two camps here who are convinced that one side are Luddites who only advocate "WW1" flying and another who think the other side can't tell where they are unless Mr Garmin tells them.
It looks like you are generalising almost as much as I do
Not at all - to a PPL flying VFR I would suggest using a GPS CONCURRENTLY with map reading and the plog. It's a very easy process. The plog then doesn't really need to have wind in it (because the GPS shows your drift clearly) and that in turn eliminates any need for using the slide rule for anything at all. Controversial? Of course.
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Here we go again. Who is to say that in this day and age dead reckoning is the "correct way"? What we are suggesting and I agree with IOS is that all ofthese tools are used in conjunction with each not isolated from each other.
Entering GPS coordinates by hand into a handheld non aviation unit is where most GPS errors occur. Buy an aviation GPS the Garrmin 196 being a good example, build the flight from the database as IOS suggests and plan the flight on the chart with pencil and ruler and a PLOG and fly them all together. Use the other equipment available to you, ADF, VOR, DME whatever the aircraft has, look at the window. ALL of the tools together maintain situational awareness.
Use the GPS as well as the map, don't just throw it aside because when you come to the point you need the information your stress levels are already high and interpreting the information won't help them! Get used to interpreting the display as part of your cockpit ROUTINE.
Add a check of the GPS batteries to your preflight check. After all you would not take off with out checking the fuel and the oil, the batteries are no different. My GPS is mains powered with battery back-up, I include a battery check for this along with my Bose headset as part of the pre-flight check.
There is nothing big or clever about doing things the hard way!
So our intrepid flyer is slightly off course leaving him stressed, he has to work out how to get back on course and avoid an airspace conflict. His stress levels are high, he is struggling to work out his 1:60 rule and the nice lady/man from XYZ zone informs him that he has just infringed controlled airspace. Now is he sat thinking how big and clever he is because he can navigate VFR using only a map and a stopwatch or perhaps thinking that 10 minutes ago would have been a great time to have addittional tools at his disposal to ensure he did not get into this situation in the first place?
It seems to me that a lot of the advice about doing it "properly" before buying a GPS comes from people who had to do it that way as nothing else was on offer and as a result think that everyone that follows them should learn the same way.
Wake up guys and gals, we live in the Nintendo age now!
Entering GPS coordinates by hand into a handheld non aviation unit is where most GPS errors occur. Buy an aviation GPS the Garrmin 196 being a good example, build the flight from the database as IOS suggests and plan the flight on the chart with pencil and ruler and a PLOG and fly them all together. Use the other equipment available to you, ADF, VOR, DME whatever the aircraft has, look at the window. ALL of the tools together maintain situational awareness.
Use the GPS as well as the map, don't just throw it aside because when you come to the point you need the information your stress levels are already high and interpreting the information won't help them! Get used to interpreting the display as part of your cockpit ROUTINE.
Add a check of the GPS batteries to your preflight check. After all you would not take off with out checking the fuel and the oil, the batteries are no different. My GPS is mains powered with battery back-up, I include a battery check for this along with my Bose headset as part of the pre-flight check.
There is nothing big or clever about doing things the hard way!
So our intrepid flyer is slightly off course leaving him stressed, he has to work out how to get back on course and avoid an airspace conflict. His stress levels are high, he is struggling to work out his 1:60 rule and the nice lady/man from XYZ zone informs him that he has just infringed controlled airspace. Now is he sat thinking how big and clever he is because he can navigate VFR using only a map and a stopwatch or perhaps thinking that 10 minutes ago would have been a great time to have addittional tools at his disposal to ensure he did not get into this situation in the first place?
It seems to me that a lot of the advice about doing it "properly" before buying a GPS comes from people who had to do it that way as nothing else was on offer and as a result think that everyone that follows them should learn the same way.
Wake up guys and gals, we live in the Nintendo age now!
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IO540
... hear what you say. Which is why I said "Carefully input your waypoint map references"
I can honestly say that in using my approach described, ie checking the resultant distances against that worked out on the Plog, has always enabled me to identify errors with either my GPS waypoint OR my Plog! The approach is a Gross Error Check in itself.
GrassStrip admits to some uncertainty about his nav skills, and I get the impression that he/she is primarily looking for GPS as insurance, rather than a tool which has equal footing with VFR and instrument methods... hence my suggestion.
Cheers
... hear what you say. Which is why I said "Carefully input your waypoint map references"
I can honestly say that in using my approach described, ie checking the resultant distances against that worked out on the Plog, has always enabled me to identify errors with either my GPS waypoint OR my Plog! The approach is a Gross Error Check in itself.
GrassStrip admits to some uncertainty about his nav skills, and I get the impression that he/she is primarily looking for GPS as insurance, rather than a tool which has equal footing with VFR and instrument methods... hence my suggestion.
Cheers
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
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Bose-X: I'm mightily impressed that you could learn to operate a GNS430 and a stormscope in 5 minutes. I spent probably two hours with the GNS430 manual, another two hours with the "simulator" on my PC, another half an hour sitting in the aeroplane with the real unit and working through the menus, and I would still say I'm not fully conversant with it. I suppose I'm just thick, or a slow learner, or both.
I can set up a route with a STAR and an instrument approach, and fly it on the 430. I can use it to look up ATC and Navaid frequencies. I certainly wouldn't want to be learning to do that while trying to aviate, navigate, and communicate, though.
I think the chap yesterday was having difficulty in his "clapped-out 1970 Cortina" PA28 because he was in and out of IMC and not capable of handling it. It wasn't the aeroplane's fault - he'd have had the same problem in anything, even a state-of-the-art high-performance wonderplane - except that he'd probably have "lost it" completely in the latter.
I did let my younger (car buff) daughter have one lesson in my Sierra Cosworth, but it only lasted about 5 minutes. Scared her rotten, it did. The insurance changed the rules soon after, and that prevented her from driving it anyway.
Nintendo? What's that? Don't they make fruit machines, or something? :-)
I can set up a route with a STAR and an instrument approach, and fly it on the 430. I can use it to look up ATC and Navaid frequencies. I certainly wouldn't want to be learning to do that while trying to aviate, navigate, and communicate, though.
I think the chap yesterday was having difficulty in his "clapped-out 1970 Cortina" PA28 because he was in and out of IMC and not capable of handling it. It wasn't the aeroplane's fault - he'd have had the same problem in anything, even a state-of-the-art high-performance wonderplane - except that he'd probably have "lost it" completely in the latter.
I did let my younger (car buff) daughter have one lesson in my Sierra Cosworth, but it only lasted about 5 minutes. Scared her rotten, it did. The insurance changed the rules soon after, and that prevented her from driving it anyway.
Nintendo? What's that? Don't they make fruit machines, or something? :-)
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Keef – I think the situation is somewhat more complex. We obviously don’t know anything about the background or experience of your cross channel flyer other than he sounded “on the ragged edge”. Now we might speculate that he was new to cross channel flying and to having no visual clues to help him. You mention there was some thin stratus. At the best of times cross channel you often find yourself on instruments because of the lack of visual clues, and with some stratus about maybe the viz. below was not great. So our cross channel flyer may have had some basic aircraft handling issues. Maybe he now adds to that in the back of his mind not being certain whether he is maintaining an accurate heading (you add “he was at a different height and going in a different direction”). It seems to me with a moving map GPS a quick glance would alleviate one worry (where he was in relation to the French coast) and would give him a line to follow if he had set up a route before leaving his home airfield.
Now a 430 does have a few buttons to press and to do so would provide a potentially dangerous distraction to our channel flyer BUT surely the panel of most light aircraft have plenty of other buttons to play with if you must in the same way to use the car analogy you might want to tune the radio, select cruise control and use your hand held ‘phone on the motorway whilst driving in fog! As I said in my previous post learning what the buttons do on your panel any more than the buttons on your GPS in the air would seem to be verging on the reckless UNLESS you are completely on top of the situation. Fortunately however we live in a world of largely free choice and if you really want to do that it is a matter for you in spite of having had it drummed into you during training that you fly the aircraft first and foremost. In short, I think we need to be careful that our argument doesn’t become one of well we had better not give the pilot the ability in the cockpit to do x and y and z because it might become all too distracting for the poor fellow. The fact remains that pilots are operating in complex environment and need to have the tools to make it as easy for them as possible. In my opinion the key is to teach the pilot not to become totally reliant on any one instrument and to shed distractions when he is becoming overwhelmed. Surely that MUST be part of good pilot training and in that regard a GPS is no different from any other instrument we have in the cockpit other than (imho) this ridiculous obsession some have that it shouldn’t be there!
I wonder whether at the time stabilised compass gyros where being installed in cockpits there were those who said they should be banned. The mark 1 brigade will doubtless agree you can still navigate perfectly well with a map, pencil and magnetic compass and a gyros compass can and will go wrong ( in my experience more often than the GPS).
My point is that had our hapless channel flyer had a GPS the odd occasional glance might have eliminated one other worry from the back of his mind. Had the GPS gone wrong he would have been back to flying the track he had laid on his map before he set out so he would have been no worse off.
Now a 430 does have a few buttons to press and to do so would provide a potentially dangerous distraction to our channel flyer BUT surely the panel of most light aircraft have plenty of other buttons to play with if you must in the same way to use the car analogy you might want to tune the radio, select cruise control and use your hand held ‘phone on the motorway whilst driving in fog! As I said in my previous post learning what the buttons do on your panel any more than the buttons on your GPS in the air would seem to be verging on the reckless UNLESS you are completely on top of the situation. Fortunately however we live in a world of largely free choice and if you really want to do that it is a matter for you in spite of having had it drummed into you during training that you fly the aircraft first and foremost. In short, I think we need to be careful that our argument doesn’t become one of well we had better not give the pilot the ability in the cockpit to do x and y and z because it might become all too distracting for the poor fellow. The fact remains that pilots are operating in complex environment and need to have the tools to make it as easy for them as possible. In my opinion the key is to teach the pilot not to become totally reliant on any one instrument and to shed distractions when he is becoming overwhelmed. Surely that MUST be part of good pilot training and in that regard a GPS is no different from any other instrument we have in the cockpit other than (imho) this ridiculous obsession some have that it shouldn’t be there!
I wonder whether at the time stabilised compass gyros where being installed in cockpits there were those who said they should be banned. The mark 1 brigade will doubtless agree you can still navigate perfectly well with a map, pencil and magnetic compass and a gyros compass can and will go wrong ( in my experience more often than the GPS).
My point is that had our hapless channel flyer had a GPS the odd occasional glance might have eliminated one other worry from the back of his mind. Had the GPS gone wrong he would have been back to flying the track he had laid on his map before he set out so he would have been no worse off.
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Keef, makes my point exactly! I doubt very much that you are either slow or stupid but I also guess that if your daughter is old enough to drive you did not grow up in the electronic age but rather have had to integrate yourself into it as it has been forced onto you?
I grew up in the electronic generation, designing Human Interface Devices once upon a time. Learning to use the Garmin was quick and easy for me. But I agree I would not attempt to learn it in the air. The sensible person learns to use it safely on the ground. In your case through a couple of hours of manual reading and simulation, in my case by sitting and playing with it.
Give a 15 year old a Nintendo, a Play Station and an X-Box and I will guarantee that they are up and playing on them all in minutes while you/we are still working out which end to open the box!
My comment about the guy you saw in IMC still stands, it seems he may have been flying beyond his ability. I sould suggest that reading his map and looking at his stopwatch were the last things on his mind. When he is safely VMC again how does he know his position? His situational awareness by now is totally shot!
Of course I can see why you want to hang onto the "old" ways if you think something as low tech as a Sierra is leading edge high performance!!!
Reading a map and controlling a clapped out old Ford is pretty high task loading.....
I grew up in the electronic generation, designing Human Interface Devices once upon a time. Learning to use the Garmin was quick and easy for me. But I agree I would not attempt to learn it in the air. The sensible person learns to use it safely on the ground. In your case through a couple of hours of manual reading and simulation, in my case by sitting and playing with it.
Give a 15 year old a Nintendo, a Play Station and an X-Box and I will guarantee that they are up and playing on them all in minutes while you/we are still working out which end to open the box!
My comment about the guy you saw in IMC still stands, it seems he may have been flying beyond his ability. I sould suggest that reading his map and looking at his stopwatch were the last things on his mind. When he is safely VMC again how does he know his position? His situational awareness by now is totally shot!
Of course I can see why you want to hang onto the "old" ways if you think something as low tech as a Sierra is leading edge high performance!!!
Reading a map and controlling a clapped out old Ford is pretty high task loading.....
To go back to the original poster's question:
Buy a Garmin Pilot III, it gives you all you need in an easily portable package. It will give you reassurance when you are uncertain. I found that having a GPS and using it as a confirmation of position greatly increased my confidence in my navigation abilities. I also bought an aerial which attaches to the inside of the windscreen with suckers. This avoids the blanking effect the airframe can sometimes have on the satellite signals.
Also buy NavBox Proplan for your PC. Using this you can plan your routes on screen before uploading to your GPS. It'll also print out your plogs for you. Once you have the line drawn on your map and checked your safety heights and that you are not infringing any airspace (cos the airspace on NavBox can be inaccurate) you are ready to go. It's also a load of fun planning fantasy flights. It'll be the best 30 odd quid you've ever spent.
I wouldn't be without the setup described above. My previously faultless Pilot III's internal batteries died on me, pre-flight, once (unit replaced free of charge by Garmin) and this has been the only problem I've experienced with it.
Buy a Garmin Pilot III, it gives you all you need in an easily portable package. It will give you reassurance when you are uncertain. I found that having a GPS and using it as a confirmation of position greatly increased my confidence in my navigation abilities. I also bought an aerial which attaches to the inside of the windscreen with suckers. This avoids the blanking effect the airframe can sometimes have on the satellite signals.
Also buy NavBox Proplan for your PC. Using this you can plan your routes on screen before uploading to your GPS. It'll also print out your plogs for you. Once you have the line drawn on your map and checked your safety heights and that you are not infringing any airspace (cos the airspace on NavBox can be inaccurate) you are ready to go. It's also a load of fun planning fantasy flights. It'll be the best 30 odd quid you've ever spent.
I wouldn't be without the setup described above. My previously faultless Pilot III's internal batteries died on me, pre-flight, once (unit replaced free of charge by Garmin) and this has been the only problem I've experienced with it.
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There have been some excellent replies here, most of which are very relevant to me and my situation.
First of all I absolutely agree that my planning, map and PLOG skills should be honed to the best of my ability and that this will only come with more experience and will be something I shall keep doing throughout my flying life.
However the idea of a GPS unit gives me a comforting sense of back-up to my primary navigation skills. I know that it is very easy to get 'behind' the aircraft very quickly due to a situation for example, where you are navigating, talking on the radio, then whoops just gained 300ft, traffic to your 2 o'clock, getting close to that Class E airspace boundary, can't go higher than 3,000ft due to cloud, keeping eyes peeled for a safe landing place if it all goes wrong, destination airfield has just changed from 08L to 19R so how does that affect my overhead join and land...
Good pre-flight planning is of course extremely important and the key is that none of the things I’ve learnt during my training and over that past 15 hours will change if i have a GPS. I will not become lazy and forget about pre-flight planning, I will not be relying solely on my GPS (if at all), but it will be there if i need it and a quick glance to reassure me is worth it's weight in gold when the going gets tough.
This kind of reminds me of when I first took up scuba diving, initially going to 30m was a daunting prospect (especially in the North Sea), so I decided to buy a pony bottle (a small spare tank with it's own reg) this gave me a tremendous sense of confidence (not to be confused with over-confidence - I am aware of my limitations) and helped me have some truly excellent dives. Fortunately I never needed to use it and now I’ve got over 3,500 dives i feel my skills and my awareness are such that i can handle most situations so I don’t take it with me anymore. However it was very reassuring knowing I could use it when I was new to the sport and gave me one less thing to worry about.
Hopefully, I will be able to achieve a similar amount of pleasure in my flying career, but these initial few hundred hours are the ones where any backup will stand me in good stead. After all, it would be better for me to have it and not use it, than to wish I had it when I can feel it going pear shaped...
First of all I absolutely agree that my planning, map and PLOG skills should be honed to the best of my ability and that this will only come with more experience and will be something I shall keep doing throughout my flying life.
However the idea of a GPS unit gives me a comforting sense of back-up to my primary navigation skills. I know that it is very easy to get 'behind' the aircraft very quickly due to a situation for example, where you are navigating, talking on the radio, then whoops just gained 300ft, traffic to your 2 o'clock, getting close to that Class E airspace boundary, can't go higher than 3,000ft due to cloud, keeping eyes peeled for a safe landing place if it all goes wrong, destination airfield has just changed from 08L to 19R so how does that affect my overhead join and land...
Good pre-flight planning is of course extremely important and the key is that none of the things I’ve learnt during my training and over that past 15 hours will change if i have a GPS. I will not become lazy and forget about pre-flight planning, I will not be relying solely on my GPS (if at all), but it will be there if i need it and a quick glance to reassure me is worth it's weight in gold when the going gets tough.
This kind of reminds me of when I first took up scuba diving, initially going to 30m was a daunting prospect (especially in the North Sea), so I decided to buy a pony bottle (a small spare tank with it's own reg) this gave me a tremendous sense of confidence (not to be confused with over-confidence - I am aware of my limitations) and helped me have some truly excellent dives. Fortunately I never needed to use it and now I’ve got over 3,500 dives i feel my skills and my awareness are such that i can handle most situations so I don’t take it with me anymore. However it was very reassuring knowing I could use it when I was new to the sport and gave me one less thing to worry about.
Hopefully, I will be able to achieve a similar amount of pleasure in my flying career, but these initial few hundred hours are the ones where any backup will stand me in good stead. After all, it would be better for me to have it and not use it, than to wish I had it when I can feel it going pear shaped...
PPRuNe Handmaiden
G'day Grassy,
Ahh a scuba diver, talk about a veritable minefield of techno goodies to keep your wallet empty.
As you've said, proper planning is the key. I don't have a GPS, used a few (I let the boss buy them). GPS's are nice and useful but not essential.
If I were you, I'd make a list of what you want the GPS to do and cost (eg, colour, moving map, updatable data base, portable and so on). Then pour over glossy brochures, search online and read reviews in magazines. (Head off to the library for them).
Reduce your list to a couple of units. Now go and have a look at them. If you can, ask around your flying club/school for demo's of the units and people's recommendations. Have a go at them yourself. Model X might do exactly what model Y does but to you, in a more intuitive way. You're the one that has to use it, you want one that will fit your needs.
Ahh a scuba diver, talk about a veritable minefield of techno goodies to keep your wallet empty.
As you've said, proper planning is the key. I don't have a GPS, used a few (I let the boss buy them). GPS's are nice and useful but not essential.
If I were you, I'd make a list of what you want the GPS to do and cost (eg, colour, moving map, updatable data base, portable and so on). Then pour over glossy brochures, search online and read reviews in magazines. (Head off to the library for them).
Reduce your list to a couple of units. Now go and have a look at them. If you can, ask around your flying club/school for demo's of the units and people's recommendations. Have a go at them yourself. Model X might do exactly what model Y does but to you, in a more intuitive way. You're the one that has to use it, you want one that will fit your needs.
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I wholeheartedly agree with LowNslow - buy a decent moving map GPS - the Pilot III is the best and smallest of the lot. In a country that is hardly renowned for either wonderful visibility or startling geographical features by which to navigate (yes I know this is a generalisation but compared with many countries it is undeniably true), a GPS provides a welcome reality check / nav cross check.
The Pilot III is utter simplicity to use (just turn it on if all you want is the moving map!), it is cheap and reliable - save for the occasional software glitches, well publiced on this forum eg by SSD - and very accurate.
The Pilot III is utter simplicity to use (just turn it on if all you want is the moving map!), it is cheap and reliable - save for the occasional software glitches, well publiced on this forum eg by SSD - and very accurate.
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I LOVE a good GPS thread and fortunately we seem to get one every couple of months 
When I was at school we weren't allowed to use calcuators. There's one on my desk but I don't use it all the time. Conversely, I could work out 17/13 to four decimal places on a piece of paper, but why would I when a reliable, accurate machine can do it for me?
Similarly, I fly with a GPS. I don't use it all the time, although its always on when I'm flying and its always got my route programmed into it. Where I do use it is when I am getting close to a field that I have yet to get a visual fix on. Looking for grass strips can be difficult enough in the middle of the summer. A GPS set to auto zoom makes things a lot easier and lets me enjoy the flight without going through someones dropzone. I also use it if I am passing close to CAS. I use it here to cross reference that the village/railway bridge/road junction on my map is exactly the one I think it is.
During normal flight, I am happy to decide "yes, that is Wickham Market" etc and only use the GPS to check ground speed. When flying microlights and other "cool" ships, wind makes a big difference to fuel required and a 1000ft change in altitude can make a big difference to GS. GPS is brilliant for getting the best ground speed as you see the results of an altitude change instantly, rather than having to wait for the next waypoint.
That bloke flying the channel? I don't reckon he had a GPS. His problem was that he was trying to re-sharpen his pencil with his Gerber, but the Warrior had a slight turn to the right
When I was at school we weren't allowed to use calcuators. There's one on my desk but I don't use it all the time. Conversely, I could work out 17/13 to four decimal places on a piece of paper, but why would I when a reliable, accurate machine can do it for me?
Similarly, I fly with a GPS. I don't use it all the time, although its always on when I'm flying and its always got my route programmed into it. Where I do use it is when I am getting close to a field that I have yet to get a visual fix on. Looking for grass strips can be difficult enough in the middle of the summer. A GPS set to auto zoom makes things a lot easier and lets me enjoy the flight without going through someones dropzone. I also use it if I am passing close to CAS. I use it here to cross reference that the village/railway bridge/road junction on my map is exactly the one I think it is.
During normal flight, I am happy to decide "yes, that is Wickham Market" etc and only use the GPS to check ground speed. When flying microlights and other "cool" ships, wind makes a big difference to fuel required and a 1000ft change in altitude can make a big difference to GS. GPS is brilliant for getting the best ground speed as you see the results of an altitude change instantly, rather than having to wait for the next waypoint.
That bloke flying the channel? I don't reckon he had a GPS. His problem was that he was trying to re-sharpen his pencil with his Gerber, but the Warrior had a slight turn to the right
Use of GPS
Some of the convoluted arguments in this thread have got my eyes glazing over .... but have answered the question. Yes you do need a GPS, it should be simple and easy to use with a moving map, you should be conversant with it and you should be equally conversant with all the other means of navigation at your disposal and as current as you can be in all of them and rely most on the one least likely to fail, with the others as backups to remain safe.
However that's no reason not to add my bit.
For example 1st time from Fairoaks to Sandown. Take off from EGTF fly south to A3, turn right, follow A3 to M27, head for Gunwharf Quay, after Gunwharf Quay head for Ryde Pier. After Ryde look for Sandown. Can see Bembridge, cannot see Sandown. Quick consult of Pilot 3 ... shows it's 3-4 miles in my 10-11 O'Clock. Know where to look, make the call, aha got it, fly circuit and land. Use of complementary technologies makes life easy without over reliance on either.
On return Depart to over Ryde Pier then dial MID VOR to go direct (but VFR). Once on track check with Mk1 eyeball and GPS. This ain't right !! Going roughly correct way but not exact. How is VOR tracking this far out ??? revert to GPS, map and eyeball to over Midhurst Town then by eyeball, heading watch and map to Dunsfold.
When have time to think as aeroplane location precisely known, return to problem .... thick t@*t ! using Ockham Freq, not Midhurst. Solution - do IMC rating and learn morse code. Again complementary technologies.
The thing that scares me most is the thought of using GPS alone and having absolutely no clue if it packed up - a place I ain't going. By all means use the best kit available, just make sure you aren't caught out when it goes t*ts up. Do gross error checks by another means. By all maens use the best kit available
coz it'll make life easier and may even prolong it one day. (I had my rear fog lamps on this morning and when I fly I'll have the transpoder for the same reason.) Just have another life prolonging plan available for when the first one goes to rat s$%t.
It's like somebody once who had little concept of mathematics telling me that 100 / 20 was 4.803 coz the (duff) calculator said so.
Years ago there was a 747 took off from Heathrow bound for the middle east and after t/o (on 09) they set the FMS and it turned left 45 degrees. The old boy in the LH seat pointed it back the right way, (lets get on our way and we'll sort it out later) but the lad in the RH seat turned it back saying the FMS must be right, the old boy had the heading for DVR confused. After some words were exchanged they returned to Heathrow on the basis of FMS u/s. At vast cost they discovered that their first way point wasn't Dover, per the plan, they'd somehow got Clacton.
However that's no reason not to add my bit.
For example 1st time from Fairoaks to Sandown. Take off from EGTF fly south to A3, turn right, follow A3 to M27, head for Gunwharf Quay, after Gunwharf Quay head for Ryde Pier. After Ryde look for Sandown. Can see Bembridge, cannot see Sandown. Quick consult of Pilot 3 ... shows it's 3-4 miles in my 10-11 O'Clock. Know where to look, make the call, aha got it, fly circuit and land. Use of complementary technologies makes life easy without over reliance on either.
On return Depart to over Ryde Pier then dial MID VOR to go direct (but VFR). Once on track check with Mk1 eyeball and GPS. This ain't right !! Going roughly correct way but not exact. How is VOR tracking this far out ??? revert to GPS, map and eyeball to over Midhurst Town then by eyeball, heading watch and map to Dunsfold.
When have time to think as aeroplane location precisely known, return to problem .... thick t@*t ! using Ockham Freq, not Midhurst. Solution - do IMC rating and learn morse code. Again complementary technologies.
The thing that scares me most is the thought of using GPS alone and having absolutely no clue if it packed up - a place I ain't going. By all means use the best kit available, just make sure you aren't caught out when it goes t*ts up. Do gross error checks by another means. By all maens use the best kit available
coz it'll make life easier and may even prolong it one day. (I had my rear fog lamps on this morning and when I fly I'll have the transpoder for the same reason.) Just have another life prolonging plan available for when the first one goes to rat s$%t.
It's like somebody once who had little concept of mathematics telling me that 100 / 20 was 4.803 coz the (duff) calculator said so.
Years ago there was a 747 took off from Heathrow bound for the middle east and after t/o (on 09) they set the FMS and it turned left 45 degrees. The old boy in the LH seat pointed it back the right way, (lets get on our way and we'll sort it out later) but the lad in the RH seat turned it back saying the FMS must be right, the old boy had the heading for DVR confused. After some words were exchanged they returned to Heathrow on the basis of FMS u/s. At vast cost they discovered that their first way point wasn't Dover, per the plan, they'd somehow got Clacton.
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Hi Grasstrip,
I was in a very similar situation to you in February. I had passed my PPL and wanted to get in some flying. Even though I knew my nav was fairly good, I wanted a little bit of re-assurance and bought a Pilot III.
I learnt how to use it before I went flying and booked an hour with an instructor. We disappeared off for an hour and did some PFLs and then spent 20 mins looking at the GPS. This meant I had then added safety of being able to arse around with the GPS whilst instructor helped with the lookout.
I still plan my flights as if I were training and fly DR with the GPS for backup, and it does make me feel happier.
If you still have to fly a couple more hours with an instructor anyway, buy a GPS and go up and have a play, while he acts as "safety" pilot. That way you know how to use it when your up solo, without having to flick through the manual.
Just my 2ps worth.
F - Wyg
I was in a very similar situation to you in February. I had passed my PPL and wanted to get in some flying. Even though I knew my nav was fairly good, I wanted a little bit of re-assurance and bought a Pilot III.
I learnt how to use it before I went flying and booked an hour with an instructor. We disappeared off for an hour and did some PFLs and then spent 20 mins looking at the GPS. This meant I had then added safety of being able to arse around with the GPS whilst instructor helped with the lookout.
I still plan my flights as if I were training and fly DR with the GPS for backup, and it does make me feel happier.
If you still have to fly a couple more hours with an instructor anyway, buy a GPS and go up and have a play, while he acts as "safety" pilot. That way you know how to use it when your up solo, without having to flick through the manual.
Just my 2ps worth.
F - Wyg
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flyingwysiwyg
A moving-map GPS needs virtually no user interaction.
You just switch it on and when the signal is received, the map shows up. The only head-down thing one might be doing is entering / editing a flight plan and that one should definitely do on the ground.
I don't know why one might spend 20 mins fiddling with a GPS when airborne. It tells you directly where you are, where you are going, and what nearby places are called so you can reference them to the chart (and visually identify them) as you go along.
A moving-map GPS needs virtually no user interaction.
You just switch it on and when the signal is received, the map shows up. The only head-down thing one might be doing is entering / editing a flight plan and that one should definitely do on the ground.
I don't know why one might spend 20 mins fiddling with a GPS when airborne. It tells you directly where you are, where you are going, and what nearby places are called so you can reference them to the chart (and visually identify them) as you go along.
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IO540,
I realise that a moving map GPS requires no fiddling around with if you're using it as a reference. I wasn't suggesting that you should be entering or editing waypoints in the air either.
There are a number of screens and functions available on the PIII which I wanted to fully understand and or see working.
I would also point out that some GPS systems are more tricky to use than others. Whether GrassStrip chooses to use up any part of his lesson familiarising himself with a new GPS is entirely up to him. Personally I found it quite useful!
F - Wyg
edited for spelling
I realise that a moving map GPS requires no fiddling around with if you're using it as a reference. I wasn't suggesting that you should be entering or editing waypoints in the air either.
There are a number of screens and functions available on the PIII which I wanted to fully understand and or see working.
I would also point out that some GPS systems are more tricky to use than others. Whether GrassStrip chooses to use up any part of his lesson familiarising himself with a new GPS is entirely up to him. Personally I found it quite useful!
F - Wyg
edited for spelling
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flyingwysiwyg
Indeed - all I was getting at is that anything remotely complicated can and should be done on the ground.
It is OK to edit a FP while airborne but is pretty fiddly. Even on a very expensive panel mounted GPS it is fiddly because there is no keypad for data entry; one has to scroll through letters and numbers with a lever or a knob.
Indeed - all I was getting at is that anything remotely complicated can and should be done on the ground.
It is OK to edit a FP while airborne but is pretty fiddly. Even on a very expensive panel mounted GPS it is fiddly because there is no keypad for data entry; one has to scroll through letters and numbers with a lever or a knob.
