night flying
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night flying
Hello.
Can someone please tell me what is required for a JAR-FCL PPL holder to fly an aircraft at night?
Also when a night rating is obtained what are the restrictions of night flying... ie. is it restricted to CTR's? and can visual approaches to the runway be made?.. do you need approach lighting etc..
Thanks for any responses.
Can someone please tell me what is required for a JAR-FCL PPL holder to fly an aircraft at night?
Also when a night rating is obtained what are the restrictions of night flying... ie. is it restricted to CTR's? and can visual approaches to the runway be made?.. do you need approach lighting etc..
Thanks for any responses.
Carbonfibre-based lifeform
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Can someone please tell me what is required for a JAR-FCL PPL holder to fly an aircraft at night?
A more in-depth answer (for the UK at least) is available in this and this section of LASORS.
A UK JAR PPL with a Night Qualification flying in the UK can fly outside CTRs and can make visual approaches.
Just noticed you're in Ireland, so you may want to read this thread where I asked about night flying there. A consensus eventually emerged.
Last edited by Fly Stimulator; 7th Oct 2003 at 06:36.
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I think FS has answered this adequately, but one topic which came to my attention last night that I haven't found a ready answer to in the ANO interests me.
A couple of guys from our club were away in the club a/c and had delays getting back, such that it was after published hours for the home airfield (which is an A/G service) and was, in fact, dark! The aircraft is on an out of hours waiver for the field. One of the pilots was night qualified.
They tried to get into Dundee, but it was shut. They also tried Fife, which was in darkness. Eventually, they flexed their credit cards and flew into Edinburgh, incurring a £104 bill - somehow, they managed by dint of some active discussion, to get the handling charge waived.
It was always my belief that a licensed airfield with an A/G service can be used for landings outside published hours if you have the permission of the aircraft owner (hence the out of hours waiver). I would thus have seriously considered landing at the home airfield in this circumstance, accepting the fact that it was in darkness (that was part of my night training at Bournemouth - all the approach aids got switched off). I cannot readily find an answer to this in the regs - anyone got any comment??
A couple of guys from our club were away in the club a/c and had delays getting back, such that it was after published hours for the home airfield (which is an A/G service) and was, in fact, dark! The aircraft is on an out of hours waiver for the field. One of the pilots was night qualified.
They tried to get into Dundee, but it was shut. They also tried Fife, which was in darkness. Eventually, they flexed their credit cards and flew into Edinburgh, incurring a £104 bill - somehow, they managed by dint of some active discussion, to get the handling charge waived.
It was always my belief that a licensed airfield with an A/G service can be used for landings outside published hours if you have the permission of the aircraft owner (hence the out of hours waiver). I would thus have seriously considered landing at the home airfield in this circumstance, accepting the fact that it was in darkness (that was part of my night training at Bournemouth - all the approach aids got switched off). I cannot readily find an answer to this in the regs - anyone got any comment??
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Circuit Basher, when you say 'all approah aids were turned off, I presume you mean the runway lights too, however, no one should ever consider landing by the light of their aircraft lights alone as this is foolhardy and best left for emergency situations, not just to save a handling fee. It is exceptionally difficult to judge flare height under the landing light of an average PA28, not to mention the consequences of a blown bulb - a fairly common occourunce on PA28s and light aircraft.
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CB
Presumably the airfield wasn't completely in darkness?
Even with the best accuracy of GPS I don't think one can do a night approach (using the aircraft lights only) if it is really dark.
Presumably the airfield wasn't completely in darkness?
Even with the best accuracy of GPS I don't think one can do a night approach (using the aircraft lights only) if it is really dark.
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I wasn't actually there, but I believe it was officially in the hours of darkness, but with some residual natural light. As I say, I was more interested in the legalities rather than the practicalities! And yes, I have (as part of my training) landed by aircraft landing light alone - eerie feeling!
At the airfield in question, the only nav aid is a VOR - on specified training nights in winter, there are VASIs.
At the airfield in question, the only nav aid is a VOR - on specified training nights in winter, there are VASIs.
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Sorry... how does one see where the runway is if it is dark and has no edge lighting at least? I was taught to use the 'string of pearls' provided by the edge lighting in the absence of any approach lights, but that would clearly not work if the runway was not lit at all!!
Am I missing something here?
Am I missing something here?
Same way you get home from the village pub in the dark without a torch, you use what's there. In practice it's not that hard particularly if there's isn't too much nearby streetlighting to confuse the issue (and ruin your night vision) if the skies are fairly clear.
After landing, seeing to taxi can be the most difficult bit, and where the landing light is actually most useful.
G
After landing, seeing to taxi can be the most difficult bit, and where the landing light is actually most useful.
G
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Hi Folks,
Apologies for resurrecting this thread, but I just wanted to get a couple of things straight.
I'm considering doing my night rating. Am I correct in assuming the following:
Its about 5 hours training
I will be able to fly after "official sunset"
I could land at my home airfield after hours, providing its light enough to see what I'm doing (assuming no runway lights or PAPI, VASI etc.....).?
If it's got really dark I would have to fly to an airfield with 24 Hr ATC and some lights?
How much night flying would I have to do in a year to keep my rating, and if I lose it, is it a check ride with an instructor?
Anything else I should know?
Excuse the ignorance, and thanks in advance.
F - Wyg
Apologies for resurrecting this thread, but I just wanted to get a couple of things straight.
I'm considering doing my night rating. Am I correct in assuming the following:
Its about 5 hours training
I will be able to fly after "official sunset"
I could land at my home airfield after hours, providing its light enough to see what I'm doing (assuming no runway lights or PAPI, VASI etc.....).?
If it's got really dark I would have to fly to an airfield with 24 Hr ATC and some lights?
How much night flying would I have to do in a year to keep my rating, and if I lose it, is it a check ride with an instructor?
Anything else I should know?
Excuse the ignorance, and thanks in advance.
F - Wyg
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F-Wyg,
Yes, 5 hours training. No written paper or skills test.
It's a qualification, not a rating, and therefore no revalidation (although you must have performed one take-off and landing after dark in the previous 90 days to carry passengers).
Although no legal revalidation requirement, school may require check ride if renting.
As for landing after dark at home airfield without lighting, don't do it. Hopefully, during your night training you will see that to try as much would be pretty stupid unless an emergency. Our home field has indemnity/waiver scheme for local aircraft but explicitly excludes landing after dark when closed.
140
Yes, 5 hours training. No written paper or skills test.
It's a qualification, not a rating, and therefore no revalidation (although you must have performed one take-off and landing after dark in the previous 90 days to carry passengers).
Although no legal revalidation requirement, school may require check ride if renting.
As for landing after dark at home airfield without lighting, don't do it. Hopefully, during your night training you will see that to try as much would be pretty stupid unless an emergency. Our home field has indemnity/waiver scheme for local aircraft but explicitly excludes landing after dark when closed.
140
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140,
Thanks for that, exactly what I needed to know!
No way I would even want to attempt landing in the darkness with no lights. I have enough problems in the daylight!
Cheers,
F - Wyg
Thanks for that, exactly what I needed to know!
No way I would even want to attempt landing in the darkness with no lights. I have enough problems in the daylight!
Cheers,
F - Wyg
Or if feeling really ambitious, from one to the other!
Now there's a challenge, the Dusk to Dawn....
However, what I find very annoying is how few UK airfields are open at night - far too many only turn the lights on once a week for a couple of hours night-training - which then most of their pilots find hard to use. I tried to negotiate a landing at about 7pm at Wolverhampton Spaceport last winter - just because I wanted to stop in the vicinity, and they would have charged me a small fortune to keep the lights on. Just one of the reasons why travelling around the UK by air is nothing like so easy as travelling around the US on similar routes where they have sensible innovations like automatic nightlighting. Sorry, got myself all worked up there.
G
Now there's a challenge, the Dusk to Dawn....
However, what I find very annoying is how few UK airfields are open at night - far too many only turn the lights on once a week for a couple of hours night-training - which then most of their pilots find hard to use. I tried to negotiate a landing at about 7pm at Wolverhampton Spaceport last winter - just because I wanted to stop in the vicinity, and they would have charged me a small fortune to keep the lights on. Just one of the reasons why travelling around the UK by air is nothing like so easy as travelling around the US on similar routes where they have sensible innovations like automatic nightlighting. Sorry, got myself all worked up there.
G
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Genghis, couldn't agree more.
My home airfield only opens at night a couple of days a week for training - weekdays only, which is no use to me because I can only fly at weekends.
My next nearest airfield also only opens on weekdays for night flying, but at least they open 5 days a week. Still, it's no use to me.
The next nearest after that will open 7 days a week. But only for pilots who are based there - there are some trees on final which become invisible at night, apparently.
So that leaves me with next fourth-nearest airfield, where I tried to do some night flying last year. The airfield is only open until 6pm, which doesn't leave enough time to get anywhere and come back. Add to that the fact that I was not at all impressed with the school I was renting from.... and won't be going back again this year.
The fifth-nearest airport is my next option (I guess I'm lucky to have 5 airports within almost-reasonable driving distance). I think they might be my best bet, but since I'm out of the country for half of the winter this year I haven't decided yet whether to go through the hassle of getting checked out at a new school. I might, though, because I love night-flying - everything becomes really pretty.
FFF
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My home airfield only opens at night a couple of days a week for training - weekdays only, which is no use to me because I can only fly at weekends.
My next nearest airfield also only opens on weekdays for night flying, but at least they open 5 days a week. Still, it's no use to me.
The next nearest after that will open 7 days a week. But only for pilots who are based there - there are some trees on final which become invisible at night, apparently.
So that leaves me with next fourth-nearest airfield, where I tried to do some night flying last year. The airfield is only open until 6pm, which doesn't leave enough time to get anywhere and come back. Add to that the fact that I was not at all impressed with the school I was renting from.... and won't be going back again this year.
The fifth-nearest airport is my next option (I guess I'm lucky to have 5 airports within almost-reasonable driving distance). I think they might be my best bet, but since I'm out of the country for half of the winter this year I haven't decided yet whether to go through the hassle of getting checked out at a new school. I might, though, because I love night-flying - everything becomes really pretty.
FFF
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Sounds like we are quite lucky at INV.
gets dark about 5:30 after the clocks change
Airport is open until the last Gatwick flight is in 10pm.
And you struggle to get them to turn the lights off. Unless it one of the pilots on desk then your lucky to see the field on the down wind. ( asked for min lighting and the bugga turned the apron floods off as well)
Mind you there is an awful lot of water about and high ground.
On a clear full moon night it is brillant flying around the area.
MJ
gets dark about 5:30 after the clocks change
Airport is open until the last Gatwick flight is in 10pm.
And you struggle to get them to turn the lights off. Unless it one of the pilots on desk then your lucky to see the field on the down wind. ( asked for min lighting and the bugga turned the apron floods off as well)
Mind you there is an awful lot of water about and high ground.
On a clear full moon night it is brillant flying around the area.
MJ
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I've always thought night flying must be really cool - if you're flying past towns and villages and can see all the streetlights and houses lit up. Especially cool on a full moon.
But I think the idea of what happens if the plane conks out on you in the dark is a bit too scary for me...!
But I think the idea of what happens if the plane conks out on you in the dark is a bit too scary for me...!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I fly at night all the time. Joys of night freight...
Last night was glorious, very cold though.
I am intrigued, there's no PAL (pilot activated lighting) here (UK)? In Australia, you use a VHF freq the click 3 times to activate the lighting. They stay on for either an hour or 30 min depending.
Last night was glorious, very cold though.
I am intrigued, there's no PAL (pilot activated lighting) here (UK)? In Australia, you use a VHF freq the click 3 times to activate the lighting. They stay on for either an hour or 30 min depending.