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-   -   BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III (https://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/429571-ba-strike-your-thoughts-questions-iii.html)

notlangley 9th Oct 2010 11:50

Yes Lotpax I agree with your last posting._ But everyone has a different vista of the World._ I am limited by my view that within every individual is the wish for good for neighbours and strangers - but this wish coexists with an opportunist potential that results in the exploitation of others._ Most people will completely disagree and will helpfully explain that they themselves happen to be altruistic in nature (what a pity that do-gooder has become word of insult).

The quote from Mrs Justice Cox was to highlight that the fault was Unite and not BASSA._ This time last year Unite and BASSA were singing from the same page in the hymn book._ Since then, there was a sermon._ BASSA did not listen to the sermon._ But if the window-blind episode is anything to go by, Unite have understood the words and taken them back to their Chapel._ IMO 2011 will be a watershed for BASSA cabin crew - and non-BASSA cabin crew members need to be understanding and helpful.

brocstar 9th Oct 2010 12:21

As 'self loading freight', customer, passanger - in fact whatever you like to call me I have been reading this thread for what seems like forever.

I appreciate that the current 'dispute' affects many people differently - so let me tell you as one who is COMPLETELY outside of these events apart from being a potential customer how it affects me and my thoughts and opinions.

I travel a lot by air within Europe and I will NEVER use BA unless forced ever again. Over a longish period of time I have found the cabin crew to be arrogant and dismissive, to do the least required and to treat the customers as a 'have to be endured nuisance'.

I don't care whether they are members of BASSA, UNITE or the local church wives/husbands group, on our last 4 flights my wife and me have been made to feel as if we (and the other passangers) are merely an inconvenient annoyance.

I would not like to have to think of any crew member having to work in an unpleasant atmosphere - whatever their views, but perhaps some of them deserve it.

I look forward to the day when I can use BA again without wondering how unpleasant the experience will be.

Brocstar

MissM 9th Oct 2010 13:27


MissM

I think you are getting more than a little paranoid and self-important.

Was your name mentioned in either of my messages? No. On the other hand, if the cap fits you are more than welcome to wear it.

If you can't take the heat, MissM, get out of the kitchen and quit moaning.

Perhaps you should quit your job with British Airways, too: an employer you so clearly hate and despise.
Paranoid? I know exactly what I am talking about. My name was mentioned, from what I can remember, twice in one of your previous messages. There's no need for you to claim otherwise.

Why should I leave BA? Because I happen to be unsatisfied with our present management who are wanting to get rid of us because we are too expensive? Perhaps if you were in my situation you would might feel the same way.

Chuchinchow 9th Oct 2010 14:10

MissM has advise me that:

Perhaps if you were in my situation you would might feel the same way.
No, MissM, quite the opposite.

If I was in your situation I would consider my personal situation, the general state of my health, the deleterious effects of the strain caused by the events at my place of work during the last couple of years, and the consequent effects of all this on the people closest to me.

If I was in your situation I would also consider the fact that the leadership of the trade union that I had so passionately supported, and to which I had faithfully contributed to every month, had clearly not acted in my best interests.

If I was in your situation I would ask the leadership of that union why, after more than a year and a half of dealing with my employer, it had not managed to reach any sort of equable solution to its original grievance.

If I was in your situation I would further ask the leadership of my union just why it made braggart declarations that misled its members. The return of staff travel privileges "within five minutes" is but one of those foolish assertions. You, of all people, will no doubt remember (and cringe at the memory of) many, many more of those bombastic statements.

If I was in your situation I would ask myself just what future I have with an employer who has cleverly side-stepped my trade union and its inept leadership, which has made a considered decision to push on with its business plan without further reference to diehard strikers and bovine dissenters.

If I was in your situation, having taken all of the above into consideration, I would ask myself if it would be worth my while to risk being shunted into a dead-end position with my employer (do you really want to stay as a purser until SOSR, compulsory redundancy or retirement catch up with you?). After all, it is you who has admitted that your costs of employment by British Airways are expensive, not me.

If I was in your situation, and having been let down by my bumbling and incompetent union branch secretary and my self-serving union representatives, I would consider my job-related assets and skills and seek more congenial employment.

There is a whole world and possibly a better life outside British Airways' world-wide fleet, you know. No getting out of the country every week or so to far-flung and (possibly) exotic places, and no strutting and preening on airport concourses so that all and sundry can see you in your BA uniform, that much is true, but meaningful and satisfying work nevertheless that would benefit both you and the community at large.

As for your assertion that your

name was mentioned, from what I can remember, twice in one of your previous messages
so what? Those who live by the pen must be prepared to . . .

Mr Optimistic 9th Oct 2010 14:12

Puzzled
 
Wasn't the original dispute about 'imposition', regarding removal of one position per crew (or getting the nco's to chip in with the general effort) ? Where did the 'want to get rid of us' bit come from, a compulsory redundancy exercise I haven't heard about ? Mind you, wouldn't doubt that things have changed and that perhaps now it is possible that many do in fact want a clean start without you.

MissM 9th Oct 2010 15:02


If I was in your situation I would consider my personal situation, the general state of my health, the deleterious effects of the strain caused by the events at my place of work during the last couple of years, and the consequent effects of all this on the people closest to me.
My health is excellent, thank you. My personal situation is fine too.


If I was in your situation I would also consider the fact that the leadership of the trade union that I had so passionately supported, and to which I had faithfully contributed to every month, had clearly not acted in my best interests.
BASSA are trying their very best to protect our interests including our terms and conditions. As an outside I can understand if this is difficult to acknowledge and understand.


If I was in your situation I would ask the leadership of that union why, after more than a year and a half of dealing with my employer, it had not managed to reach any sort of equable solution to its original grievance.
Blame it on the union. Surely our management could never be responsible for not reaching an agreement with us.


If I was in your situation I would further ask the leadership of my union just why it made braggart declarations that misled its members. The return of staff travel privileges "within five minutes" is but one of those foolish assertions.
Be rest assured that ST will be returned sooner or later. Personally I don't need it but many of our commuting crew do. Surprisingly there was a huge amount of commuters on strike which would indicate that the threat of removal of ST which BA made did not work. It would, on the other hand, indicate that they are worried about their careers.


If I was in your situation I would ask myself just what future I have with an employer who has cleverly side-stepped my trade union, and its inept leadership, at every turn and has made a considered decision to push on with its business plan without further reference to diehard strikers and dissenters.
As long as BA are in dispute with us there will never be any peace. It should also be in WW's best and personal interest to sort it out before he can actually move on to become the leader of IAG.


If I was in your situation, having taken all of the above into consideration, I would ask myself if it would be worth my while to risk being shunted into a dead-end position with my employer (do you really want to stay as a purser until SOSR, compulsory redundancy or retirement catch up with you?)
Strangely SOSR is something which has been rumoured for a very long time and has yet not been issued. Last time this rumour circulated was back in May during the strike. Personally I don't think they will ever issue it because otherwise it would have been.


If I was in your situation, and having been let down by my bumbling and incompetent union branch secretary and my self-serving union representatives, I would consider my job-related assets and skills and seek more congenial employment.

There is a whole world and possibly a better life outside British Airways' world-wide fleet, you know. No getting out of the country every week or so to far-flung and (possibly) exotic places, and no strutting and preening on airport concourses so that all and sundry can see you in your BA uniform, that much is true, but meaningful and satisfying work nevertheless that would benefit both you and the community at large.
I don't feel let down by my union. Of course there's a world outside BA but what if you happen to like your job? Has that ever crossed your mind?


so what? Those who live by the pen must be prepared to . . .
So what? Maybe you don't understand but perhaps it was given to you in confidence, something which you don't seem to appreciate, as I never expected you to tattle it all over a public forum. Thanks a lot. I realise I never should have given it to you, but hey, we all make mistakes.

rethymnon 9th Oct 2010 15:17

I suppose we must assume that the Moderator is satisfied that 'MissM' is real?

Chuchinchow 9th Oct 2010 15:39


Quote:
"If I was in your situation I would ask the leadership of that union why, after more than a year and a half of dealing with my employer, it had not managed to reach any sort of equable solution to its original grievance."

Blame it on the union.
Glad you agree with +/- 90% of the readers of this thread MissM

Chuchinchow 9th Oct 2010 15:58

Thirty pieces of silver?
 
MissM has reproved me, saying;


Strangely SOSR is something which has been rumoured for a very long time and has yet not been issued. Last time this rumour circulated was back in May during the strike. Personally I don't think they will ever issue it because otherwise it would have been]
No, it may not. But how about the voluntary redundancy package that you seem to be so greedy and willing to accept - if its terms satisfy your requirements. See your post #62, 6 October 2010, at 17:45:

As much as some of you obviously would prefer me to do, I won't be going anywhere for a while. Maybe if BA offered me a good VR package I would consider it!
Funny how even the most rabid union supporter has her (or his) price. Or is it possibly rodents desperately seeking to disembark from a vessel in distress?

MissM 9th Oct 2010 16:10


Glad you agree with +/- 90% of the readers of this thread MissM
I was being sarcastic...


No, it may not. But how about the voluntary redundancy package that you seem to be so greedy and willing to accept - if its terms satisfy your requirements. See your post #62, 6 October 2010, at 17:45:
I have only said that I have no intention of leaving BA. I would, however, consider leaving should they offer another round of a VR package. Why? Because our days are definitely counted in this company. Call me 'so greedy' if you wish but that's certainly not the case. If I could stay in BA until I retire I would.


Funny how even the most rabid union supporter has her (or his) price. Or is it possibly rodents desperately seeking to disembark from a vessel in distress?
Desperately seeking to disembark? Not at all.

And, please leave out '(or his)' in the future.

jghill 9th Oct 2010 16:10

I see the bassa website is up to three x's!

Chuchinchow 9th Oct 2010 16:24


And, please leave out '(or his)' in the future.
You stick to your prose style, MissM, and I will stick to mine.

Litebulbs 9th Oct 2010 16:27


Originally Posted by rethymnon (Post 5984216)
I suppose we must assume that the Moderator is satisfied that 'MissM' is real?

The same could be asked of you?

Litebulbs 9th Oct 2010 16:31

MissM
 
I would just like to say that you are holding yourself in a very professional manner. There are probably many things that we don't agree on, with the dispute in question, but I have complete respect in the way that you put your point.

However, my opinion doesn't really count for too much on pprune!

Lotpax 9th Oct 2010 16:38

I fail to see how Miss M can be accused of being greedy for mentioning VR on the one hand, then be told she should leave BA on the other.

Doesn't make any sense to me and any reasonable person would consider a VR offer, before deciding whether it suited their needs or not.

I do not support BASSA's cause, but Miss M should not be pilloried for doing so.

MissM 9th Oct 2010 16:47

Litebulbs

Thank you! The same could be said for you. And, your opinion does count. :)

Lotpax

The only person accusing me of being greedy is Chuchinchow who appears to have taken a hostile stance on me. I do agree with you that any reasonable person would consider leaving if VR is being offered. There's nothing wrong with it and certainly not a greedy behaviour. It would have been a greedy behaviour if I had expected or even demanded BA to offer it. That's not the case.

Thanks to you too :)

Chuchinchow 9th Oct 2010 17:07


a hostile stance on me
A hostile stance to me, perhaps, but still wrong.

And do not try to wriggle out of or to disavow statements you so clearly made here, in writing. Everybody has her (or his) price; in this case it is merely a question of when and how much MissM would accept.

Mr Optimistic 9th Oct 2010 17:18

It's only polite
 
...to drop the '(or his)' qualifier since this is implies some doubt over bona fides for which I see no cause.

PleasureFlyer 9th Oct 2010 17:34


Blame it on the union. Surely our management could never be responsible for not reaching an agreement with us.

Wasn't it proven in court that it was the unions fault an agreement wasn't reached due to the different parts of the union not even willing to be in the same room as each other?

Litebulbs 9th Oct 2010 17:43


Originally Posted by PleasureFlyer (Post 5984434)
Wasn't it proven in court that it was the unions fault an agreement wasn't reached due to the different parts of the union not even willing to be in the same room as each other?

An interesting refresher -

Malone & Ors v British Airways Plc [2010] EWHC 302 (QB) (19 February 2010)

The way I see the thrust of this, is that the contract was not linked clearly to industrial agreements. I am presuming that the appeal will be trying to prove the link.


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