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-   -   BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III (https://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/429571-ba-strike-your-thoughts-questions-iii.html)

TightSlot 4th Oct 2010 15:56

BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
 
The story continues..........................

BAAlltheway 4th Oct 2010 17:49

OOOOHH I get to go first!


ust trust me when I tell you that no one likes Willie Walsh and he does not inspire any of his workforce to be the best. We are products of a previous chief executive Colin Marshall who inspired us all to be the best and it is his legacy of customer service that runs through many of us.
Bettygirl.. I'm not sure who the "no one" you refer to is. Are you meaning CC? All BA staff? I wouldn't dream of speaking for you, or any other CC, nor any other department in BA, so whilst it may be the case in your area, i must disagree that Willie Walsh is universally disliked. On the contrary, in my department, and most of the others that i come into contact with, he is very well respected and liked. Sure, he is not from the fluffy fluffy give the crowd what they ask for school like Colin Marshall and Rod Eddington, and under WW i have had to work longer, harder, and for fewer bonuses/pay rises. However, under WW i feel that what i do IS important and makes a difference, and that he is working harder to make our company a viable one with a future.

I would take that any day over some one with flowery phrases who keeps doling out money on things that don't pay, and don't bring us returns. I come from a Customer service background in BA, and i will agree we have had to stop doing some things that we used to do. But most of these things are nice to do's that customers tell us they don't value enough to pay for. Times change, customers change, markets change, and we have to work out how to change with it, and do things cleverer.

Willie Walsh ain't perfect i'll agree, but i'm a fan, and will continue to be..

ChicoG 5th Oct 2010 04:40


Customer Service? Every customer wants it and almost no customer is willing to pay for it.
And if you believe that, you might as well just go LCC and be done with it.

Fortunately, it's not true.

notlangley 5th Oct 2010 07:04

A pity - conversations on these threads deteriorate into aggressive verbal attacks
 
Originally posted by 617sqn on 29 September 2010 (thread 2216 of Your thoughts and Questions II).

I am BA cc based at LHR worldwide fleet(longhaul)
We would never be rostered to do a trip with the entire crew again as it would not be possible. Some people may have part time, leave or UK request days next so it would not work.
I will check in for a long haul trip and not usually know anyone on the crew.
I can appreciate that this does sound strange to non flyers who have familiarity in their work place.
Crew, both in the cabin and the flight deck, get used to getting on board not even knowing everyone's names. We all know what tasks have to be done before passenger boarding. This is a very busy time so no real chit chat can take place.
What this means for a minority of the thousands of cabin crew is that after a decade or two of living without "chat", these few have not polished their way of speaking to colleagues who have different ideas and views about xyz (xyz can be unions or management or BASSA or CC89 or just about anything that other cc say).
What is the answer to social starvation?_ The only worthwhile answer has to be one discovered and developed by cabin crew.

PAXboy 5th Oct 2010 11:55

ChicoGb

Quote (PAXboy): Customer Service? Every customer wants it and almost no customer is willing to pay for it.
And if you believe that, you might as well just go LCC and be done with it.
Fortunately, it's not true.
Indeed, which is why I said 'almost'. Some customers will pay for extra service on some occasions and some will always want/need to find the lowest price irrespective of whether the service is good or bad. As with all aspects of human behaviour, it's a long and winding line.

However, in the depths of this recession with some way still to go, price is king for most people. Then there is the topic that, many of the aspects of service that suppliers (of all types) have spent ages designing and training their staff to deliver - never even get noticed by some of their customers!

LD12986 5th Oct 2010 20:12

Some positive news for once, BA's traffic numbers are up year on year, with the all important premium traffic up 4.3% (I know BASSA acolytes have previously delighted in falling passenger numbers).

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External...xUeXBlPTM=&t=1

pcat160 6th Oct 2010 22:00

Another new long haul service beginning next summer announced today: LHR-SAN using a three class 777. This is good news and generates more growth for Mixed Fleet.:ok:

JUAN TRIPP 6th Oct 2010 22:57

LHR-SAN
 
Sorry but where was this announced? Can't see it anywhere on Ba's schedule.

Just seen it now. Sorry

Chuchinchow 6th Oct 2010 23:07

An open letter to a certain BA flight attendant
 
A certain British Airways flight attendant, over on the crew thread, has informed her (or his) readers:

BA is becoming a great place to work at. As of October 7th we will have to work with VCC on certain WW flights. At least it removes some of the pressure on our EF colleagues who have had to work with them for some time but it's outrageous and provocative. We shouldn't be forced to work with people who are nothing but prolonging our dispute.
Flight Attendant , there is a constant and repetitive strand that links each and every message you have posted: your near pathological hatred of British Airways, the current state of IFCE and BA's Chief Executive. Your last sentence

We shouldn't be forced to work with people who are nothing but prolonging our dispute.
says it all.

No one is forcing Flight Attendant to come to work for a company whose business plans and ideals are clearly anathema to her (or him). Why prolong the agony of having to fight an indefensible position, Flight Attendant?

Your beloved trade union, BASSA, has clearly abandoned you and hung you and your ilk out to dry.

Cut your losses, Flight Attendant, and resign from a company that you have so clearly come to hate and despise. Believe me: there is a whole world outside British Airways - even for someone who professes not to have ever had any other form of employment in her (or his) life.

Lotpax 7th Oct 2010 05:31

CCC

The best way to deal with people, whom you believe have extreme views, on bulletin boards is to ignore them.

All you are doing is pouring petrol on a fire that was not burning very well.

Or to put it another way, do not dignify their rantings.

I am taking two British Arways flights later today and will not give this poster a passing thought.

My only concern is whether the service in Club Europe will be any good, as it has been poor on the last two.

ChicoG 7th Oct 2010 07:11

Lotpax, I hope you reported your dismay via the online complaint form (rather than the CSD complaint form lottery)?

Chuchinchow 7th Oct 2010 07:15

Thank you, Lotpax, for that gratuitous advice.

I can only hope that if you are served by "Flight Attendant" on your Club class flight today she (or he) can be bothered to offer you hot towels.

It's a point about which she (or he) is somewhat particular. She (or he) has often told us hot towels are one of BASSA's main weapons in its struggle against her (or his) oppressive employer, British Airways. So she (or he) takes action against the very passengers who contribute so much to paying her (or his) salary. Crazy, but that's the way this person fights her (or his) personal war.

I am sorry to be so coy and circumspect in describing this person but she (or he), who seems to believe she (or he) is a legend in her (or his) own bunk break time, has a distinct aversion to being identified in any way or form. That's strange, seeing that she (or he) is probably one of the most zealous promoters of the BASSA cause on these boards.

So no names, no pack drill.

Lotpax 7th Oct 2010 08:12

CCC

To be honest, it's a bit difficult to decide whether the other poster or you is ranting the most :ugh:

Tonight maybe the first time, but I have never failed to get a hot towel in Club World and never received less than professional, competent service.

CE on the other hand is simply not worth the money presently and much of that is due to reduction in the hard product, a management decision.

ChicoG

I wrote to to the CEO and am having a dialogue with a helpful lady in the customer service team, who seems to be on the case.

call100 7th Oct 2010 10:06


Originally Posted by Lotpax (Post 5979290)
CCC

To be honest, it's a bit difficult to decide whether the other poster or you is ranting the most
:ugh:

Tonight maybe the first time, but I have never failed to get a hot towel in Club World and never received less than professional, competent service.

CE on the other hand is simply not worth the money presently and much of that is due to reduction in the hard product, a management decision.

ChicoG

I wrote to to the CEO and am having a dialogue with a helpful lady in the customer service team, who seems to be on the case.

Couldn't agree more with you there LP...;)

pcat160 7th Oct 2010 22:08

Legal Activity
 
There has been considerable discussion about various legal actions which would be undertaken by Unite/Bassa/et al in various courts. Other than the appeal of the original suit over crewing levels/imposition have any additional actions been initiated?

ninja-lewis 7th Oct 2010 22:20

Has anybody noticed http://www.bassa.co.uk seems to redirect to • BASSA• Welcome - a black page with a single yellow cross.

MissM 7th Oct 2010 22:28

Chuchinchow

Let's sort this out once and for all because this is getting out of hand.

Why are you going on about me on this forum? Is it because I refused to communicate with you further unless you would exclude personal attacks and insults in your posts, to which you replied "I could not care less" yet continued to send me personal messages? I have all of them saved.

Please find the post in which I have stated that the hot towel issue is one of BASSA's strongest weapons. Perhaps if you knew the history of this issue you might have been of a different opinion. It goes back as far as to 9/11 when BA had to make rapid changes to which BASSA responded quickly. As long as everything is negotiated and agreed I will not have a problem delivering the service.

I don't see anything wrong with saying that I am very good at my job. I know it will be very difficult for you to believe following but I happen to like what I do. I would like to say that I do my very best every time I am at work and I provide the service which our customers expect from BA. Lastly, to your information, I never work in our CE cabin as I work on our WW fleet.

Betty girl 8th Oct 2010 08:01

Just want to make sure anyone reading this thread realises that it is hot towels in World Traveller plus that Bassa members are not doing.

Hot towels in Club World (ww flights) are being done.

Hot towels in Club Europe (E/F flights) were removed by BA and cannot be done because they are no longer ever loaded on the flights.

AlpineSkier 8th Oct 2010 08:03

Miss M

You seem to be under an illusion about the following.


We are the reason as to why BA was once the world's favourite airline. Sure
The people who made BA "The world's favourite airline " were McCann-Erickson or Saatci and Saatchi not BA cabin staff.

It was an advertising slogan, nothing else. Nobody ever voted BA as being that.

One illusion down and about twenty-five to go.

I believe you recently also re-posted that absolute nonsense about BA and BASSA only being 10 million apart in savings when negotiations were taking place.

This lie has been de-bunked so often, but you still have the brass-neck to re-post it.

Do you have no shame ?

call100 8th Oct 2010 08:31

The personal attacks are now getting out of hand....If you can't comment on the situation without resorting to it then maybe it's better not saying anything.
It would be interesting if everyone posted their salaries, job descriptions and benefits along with their bile, so that the playing field was evened up slightly......:rolleyes::ugh:

Rhayader 8th Oct 2010 09:14

Having read both threads more or less from the start there is one thing that concerns me as SLF.

With all the bile and invective being thrown about between strikers, non-strikers, VCC and in some cases the flight deck; how is this impacting on your work performance? I do not mean the hot towels or the meal service but more the safety critical aspects of your duties. Before I get jumped on with comments such as 'I/we/they would not be so un-professional to let that affect my performance', I will tell you that it does impact on your actions and in the vast majority of cases you are not conscious of it.

In my experience of assessing competance and managing traincrew I have had to remove from safety critical duties a number of staff who thought they were performing well but had underlying issues (financial, personal and colleague related among others) that was having a detrimental, or I thought could have detrimental effect, on the safety of the customers in the event of an incident.

Are measures put in place to ensure that the acrimony displayed on these boards and on picket lines is not carried over into the cabin?

Litebulbs 8th Oct 2010 09:18

Good call, call.

It would be interesting to see how much BA management grade pay is;)

notlangley 8th Oct 2010 10:03

Double letter on crewforum

LD12986 8th Oct 2010 10:10

Good call, except this dispute has never been about pay. The staff costs of all BA departments compared to other airlines are on the CAA website.

As for management, BA senior management pay is certainly lower than that of its FTSE 100 peers. There are FDs of large plcs who earn far more than WW does as CEO.

If you go on strike and seek out public support, you cannot expect your terms and conditions to escape public scrutiny and criticism.

Diplome 8th Oct 2010 11:21

What relevance does BA management salary have to the issue of Cabin Crew?

Last I looked BA wasn't a collective.

Management makes more...as they should.

sempir 8th Oct 2010 11:43

Not sure if this is the correct thread so am wearing safety gear. What are "new fleet"and "mixed fleet"? Taa.:confused:

Lotpax 8th Oct 2010 12:01


I will tell you that it does impact on your actions and in the vast majority of cases you are not conscious of it.
Interesting comment. Last night my CE inflight service was delivered professionally and competently, unlike the previous two.

But I did not see a single smile from the three crew in our cabin.

The flight met the standards I expect for service delivery and that is good enough for me.

On the CW flight, it was service as usual, with just one hiccup, the seat I was allocated had several large areas of dried white/cream stains on it. Fortunately there was a spare seat available for take off and then the CC member in my area (who was really nice, as well as professional) changed the cushion so I could return to the original place.

The contrast between crew body language and facial expressions could not have been more noticeable.

Edited to add that I am not saying the difference between the two crews was anything to do with the strike, just that we pax do notice whether crew are apparently happy/not happy.

Betty girl 8th Oct 2010 12:47

Sempir,
Mixed Fleet is a new fleet that BA are starting up with different terms and conditions to the Current Fleets which are World Wide, Euro Fleet and Single Fleet Gatwick. Some posters refer to it as New Fleet but it is the same thing.

If you look through all the posts on the previous threads British Airways V Bassa, there have been a few, you will find the answer to all your questions.

Colonel White 8th Oct 2010 14:35

Call100 Job title ? totally irrelevant, its job dimensions that are important. Salary ? again not useful, there are some skills that have a higher value to organisations than others. In aviation, flight crew earn commensurately more than most managers with equivalent line responsibilities. Equally, you'll find that general admin workers tend to earn less than IT programmers. If you look at most organisations the highly paid folk tend to be the sales force, who get commission. I fai to see how publishing such information would even up the playing field.

rethymnon 8th Oct 2010 14:53

Posterity
 
As an erstwhile student of Industrial Relations - and once a P/T lecturer on HR, it is worth bearing in mind that this strike will one day form the basis of an academic dissertation or even a book. I do hope that all the posts on Pprune will be saved as they will undoubtedly be invaluable to whoever undertakes this task.

Can I ask whether I am right in concluding that the BASSA leadership (sic) is predominately made up of senior cabin crew - CSDs and Pursers? If that is correct, how come that the more junior ranks are so under- represented? Could this explain what appears to be some rather skewed decision making?

Mariner9 8th Oct 2010 15:03

Rethymnon, according to that ever-reliable source Wikipedia ;) the Bassa leadership is made up predominantly of sacked/suspended/long term sick senior cabin crew.

If accurate, it is clear to see why BASSA have no interest in ending this dispute. Having said that, the Wikipedia entry for BASSA was clearly authored by someone with an anti-BASSA view!


The British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (BASSA) is a branch of the British trade union Unite.

BASSA was originally formed exclusively for British Airways (BA) cabin crew.

BASSA now has other branches representing cabin crew at other airlines. Branch 1/1117 is for Thomson Airways cabin crew.[1]

Originally part of the Transport and General Workers' Union (T&GWU), BASSA is now part of Unite. Membership is falling from a high point of over 11,000 in 2009. At 8 August 2010 membership stood at 9,555; one month later on 8 September 2010 membership stood at 9,279 before this information was removed from the website and updated to read "about 10,000". This still makes BASSA one of the largest branches of Unite.[2]

BASSA is managed by a committee of wholly elected representatives, which disproportionally consists in the main of CSDs and Pursers from the Heathrow World Wide fleet, all of whom are usually operational staff with their airline, though two are on disciplinary charges for gross misconduct. As at August 2010, Duncan Holley, the Branch Secretary, is the exception to this rule, and remains in his BASSA role despite having been sacked from British Airways for gross misconduct.

The current chairperson is Lizanne Malone, a BA Cabin Services Director, who has not worked operationally for over a year, and who married an American, resides in Los Angeles, California.[3]

Headquartered at the Unite offices at Harlington, Middlesex, BASSA has support offices in Abbey House at Heathrow Airport, and in Jubilee House at Gatwick Airport. BASSA provides a secure website to service its members, 10% of whom reside overseas.[4]

As of February 2010, BASSA is facing competition from the newly formed Professional Cabin Crew Council

notlangley 8th Oct 2010 19:05

I think that it is fundamental to homo sapiens that some will exploit others - therefore I believe that trades unions are very important (I would like to say essential) for civilised societies in which corruption is low.

What puzzles me is why World Fleet and Euro Fleet are not regarded by Unite as being different and separate work units._ The terms and conditions are clearly different with World Fleet receiving extra payments._ If only the two joint secretaries of Unite had realised this and imposed (am I allowed to say "imposed") this division then at least one of the two JS would today be planning his grand entry into the House of Lords.

TSR2 8th Oct 2010 21:17


BASSA now has other branches representing cabin crew at other airlines. Branch 1/1117 is for Thomson Airways cabin crew.[1]
So are the members THOSSA's ... Sorry, I'll get my coat.

Diplome 8th Oct 2010 23:17

Had to smile when I read this:


I think that it is fundamental to homo sapiens that some will exploit others
Any thinking person would apply the same motiviation to Unions in relation to their members as Employers and their employees.

No heroes to be found in that statement.

Lotpax 9th Oct 2010 03:21


Any thinking person would apply the same motiviation to Unions in relation to their members as Employers and their employees.
Non sequitur.

Union officials are elected by the members, so they have to deliver something to keep tenure.

Don't equate BASSA to normal union, it is not.

Chuchinchow 9th Oct 2010 04:13


Chuchinchow

Why are you going on about me on this forum?
MissM

I think you are getting more than a little paranoid and self-important.

Was your name mentioned in either of my messages? No. On the other hand, if the cap fits you are more than welcome to wear it.

If you can't take the heat, MissM, get out of the kitchen and quit moaning.

Perhaps you should quit your job with British Airways, too: an employer you so clearly hate and despise.

ChicoG 9th Oct 2010 06:02


I think that it is fundamental to homo sapiens that some will exploit others - therefore I believe that trades unions are very important (I would like to say essential) for civilised societies in which corruption is low.
Not when that union is BASSA, who in my opinion manipulate and exploit their members to the extreme and are clinging on to their positions, being paid handsomely for doing so, despite have absolutely NO right to do so other than a show of hands from the more rabid bunch of Bedfont berks.

notlangley 9th Oct 2010 06:05

Court 74
 
Judgement Day

notlangley 9th Oct 2010 07:07

Lotpax quite reasonably says

Union officials are elected by the members, so they have to deliver something to keep tenure.
However Mrs Justice Cox said on 17 December 2009

Before the ballot closed on 14th December BA wrote to UNITE on 11th December, asking them to confirm the accuracy of the numbers and asking whether or not voluntary redundancy leavers had in fact been included in the figures. Unite did not reply.
Also from Mrs Justice Cox

In the absence of a response from the union, BA wrote a more detailed letter on 14 th December, i.e. the day that the ballot closed. This informed the union in the clearest terms that BA was concerned as to the inclusion of voluntary redundancy leavers in the process. Rather than respond to that concern, however, UNITE served on BA the result of the ballot and the notice of industrial action.

Lotpax 9th Oct 2010 10:26

Not Langley

My point is simply that one cannot directly compare a union to an employer.

The board keeps tenure by convincing the shareholders they have a done a good job whereas senior union employees retain their job by convincing the members of the same.

One may argue that both exploit employees/members (delete as appropriate.)


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