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-   -   BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II (https://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/417709-ba-strike-your-thoughts-questions-ii.html)

Airclues 10th Jun 2010 10:10

If discussion regarding what some of these disciplinaries were really about becomes public it will remove much of BASSA's argument regarding who was bullying
BA have complied with the disciplinary rules (that were agreed with the unions) that details of cases should not be made public. However, if the strike ballot was challenged in court, I assume that the judge could demand that the 'crimes' be revealed to the court.

I don't think that either the court, or public opinion, would have much sympathy with Unite once the facts are known. It might be better for Unite to drop #3 and let the public continue to believe that the crew were disciplined for 'expressing their views'.

Diplome 10th Jun 2010 10:14

All of that of course assumes that BASSA \ Unite win a ballot for further strike action. By no means guaranteed.
Agreed..though it is hard for a logic based individual to have much insight into the more radical BASSA members thinking.

What is surprising is that ALL three points are issues that arise directly out of the strike action. I would have thought that BASSA would have developed a list that has a greater appeal for its membership as a whole.

Ancient Observer 10th Jun 2010 10:31

Where are the Managers and Directors??
Where are the managers and the Directors? Who is painting the compelling vision for the future? Who is seeking to engage the great staff that BA clearly have - Tira, JSL et al??

BA are allowing Bassa and the Bassa Broadcasting Corp to lead this dispute. The managers and directors should be out there talking about a great future, rather than being buried in committee rooms with their lawyers.
Visible managers excited about the future could - if they are good enough, overcome all this Bassastuff - unless the managers too believe what Bassa believe - that the corrupt practices of 30 + years will return when WW goes............

As I've said before..............

IMHO, BA need an action plan
1. to change most of the managers involved, (I know, Diplome, I've said this too often - but the current lot appear to be still asking bassa for permission to serve their customers. Madness).
2. to remove any CSD who is unable/unwilling to demonstrate that their actual behaviour, (not words, and not an interview) has been fully supportive of BAs customers
3. to remove the current CSD job completely, and to replace it with a proper Customer Service Supervisor role. Recruit for this new job from the best of the current total BA CC population - but only allow 49% of the new CSS to be from BA, with 51% recruited from Tesco, John Lewis and etc.
4. Jfdi with respect to New Fleet, and insist that the folk in BA who actually do the recruitment to NF are their brightest and best. Don't let the current lot recruit in their own image.
For induction and early training - Use the best of PPF and PPF2 from all those years ago.
5. Give notice - say, 6 months, that all the current T & C are going to be changed. Get rid of all the T & C that cause the many and varied "Spanish" practices and spurious reasons for payment. (Dodgy lightbulbs in LH crew rest places, 2 + hours breaks for SH etc). Make all CC work like they do at EZY.
Implement new pay system no matter what bassa say.
6. The Leadership team need to paint a compelling vision of the "New BA" that good current staff and all future staff can imagine themselves in to. Give some hope and aspiration to a workforce that wants more positive meaning from its workplace. Listenning to Tira, JSL, and some of the VCC on the other thread - the raw material is in BA, but I'm not sure that it's being nurtured and fed properly!
7. Hire some much better managers, from well outside Aviation. The inspirational types are available on the market place, but Aviation is not the sector to find them in.
8. Do some real customer service surveys, that the new CSS cannot influence. Make them cheap and cheerful, but accurate. BT do this very well, and even Virgin do try to get real feedback.
9. Employ, via an agency, (not BA staff) some real "Mystery flyers" who will fully report on BA's flying experience for customers, and whose reports really impact managers' salaries.
10. Insist that Captains fully own the total in-flight experience of customers.
11. Publish (anonymised) pay of all BA CC who earn in gross terms a penny over the National average wage. (Currently c 25,000).
12. Pay expenses as incurred. Get rid of the rich, and corrupting influence of the NRT etc golden wheelbarrows.

Well, that's a start................

Winch-control 10th Jun 2010 10:33

If I understand correctly, Bassa/Unite are not allowed to continue or re-ballot on the same strike issue (imposition). They therefore need to seek a reason to strike. Unfortunately they appear to have chosen to ballot on strike action that they cannnot win.
The wording of the ballot, if it is to include the 3 aforementioned points in previous posts will be interesting though.

ChicoG 10th Jun 2010 11:23

Willie Walsh has refused his bonus (334K of shares) for the second year running.

Meanwhile, back in the 70's:

Union leaders said there would have been "uproar" if Mr Walsh had pocketed a bonus this year.

Len McCluskey, Unite's assistant general secretary, said: "His plans for BA have seen it become a byword for bullying, driving customers into the arms of competitors, poisoned working relations and is denying the airline a peaceful, stable future.

"This is not success, it is ruination of a great British company. There should be no bonus and no mega-pot of shares until BA sorts the cabin crew dispute."
There is no word as to whether Woodley, Simpson and McWitless have offered to forgo any of their six figure salaries, benefits, second homes or luxury cars while members suffer as a result of their lacklustre negotiating skills ***

*** (That means saying "No" all the time till your red nose glows in the dark).

johnoWhiskyX 10th Jun 2010 14:25

9. Employ, via an agency, (not BA staff) some real "Mystery flyers" who will fully report on BA's flying experience for customers, and whose reports really impact managers' salaries.

I agree on the mystery flyers. But i would prefer them to be BA employed. I'm on the recieving end of external contractors and quite frankly they are only there to make money, service isn't in their vocabulary. Lets face it, even if BA implemented mystery flyers, the jobs would go to someone with a relative allready working at BA, rather than real people with a passion for BA, travel, customer service and has no connection with BA at all at present.

I would have to agree with your comments regarding certain posters on the CC forum. there appears to be some excellent folk with heads screwed on that should be nurtured. they may allready be in management positions for all i know, but if they aren't they should be. External managers without flight experience are essential, managers are there to manage staff, intimate knowledge of a plane, loading dock, cockpit is not essential, desirable yes , but not essential.

The SSK 10th Jun 2010 14:47

I agree 99% with Len McCluskey

Len McCluskey, Unite's assistant general secretary, said: "His plans for BA have seen it become a byword for bullying, driving customers into the arms of competitors, poisoned working relations and is denying the airline a peaceful, stable future".
To make it spot-on, he only needs to change a single word. The first one.

Should be 'BASSA's'

4Foxtrot 10th Jun 2010 15:32

baggersup, I perceive that they aren't going to ballot for IA based upon the reinstatement of the perk so much as the means by which it was removed. Yes, they were warned Staff Travel would be removed but their (untested) legal belief is that you cannot be 'punished' by your employer for participating in IA. Thin ice in my books, and largely outside the scope of original reasons for the dispute, but the outcome in court/employment tribunal would be interesting. It might all become irrelevant anyway if BA go down the SOSR route.

Mariner9 10th Jun 2010 15:42

Having said that, previous messages about mystery shoppers got huge responses in an old thread here, saying BASSA would go absolutely mental if that were done and would not stand for that in any circumstances
How would one spot the difference between "going absolutely mental" and BASSA's normal behaviour Baggers? :ok:

GCI35 10th Jun 2010 16:03

Pending ballot
YouGov; Industrial Action Ballots.

1. "You should be allowed to vote in secret without interference from a Trade Union or its officials."

2. "Your Trade Union is not allowed to ask any of its members to take part, or to continue taking part, in Industrial Action unless it has held a properly conducted secret ballot."

3. "Voting is by post."

My understanding is that the ballot for the strike that ended yesterday was conducted online whereby the members had to identify themselves. Are there any legal eagles who'd care to comment.
Just a thought.

Diplome 10th Jun 2010 16:19


If I could rate up a post yours would be my choice. :D

just an observer 10th Jun 2010 16:20

The ballot for the strike just ended was conducted by post and counted by the electoral reform society (I think).

The online ballot recently was just to ask CC if they would accept BA's latest offer. They were recommended to turn it down by Unite, as in the parent union, not BASSA, as it did not return staff travel unconditionally, nor stop the disciplinaries. Interestingly, Woodley and Simpson speaking for Unite the parent union, did approve the financial package. However there was always a doubt that BASSA would not agree the financial package anyway, on the grounds of no guarantees etc.

Neptunus Rex 10th Jun 2010 16:36

Re The Above
BASSA going "absolutely mental" over a management suggestion would seem to completely vindicate management's point.

It seems that the BASSA leaders are all Frankie Howard fans; well, most of them are of that vintage. I quote:

"Nay, Nay and thrice Nay!"

MCOflyer 10th Jun 2010 16:44

This is my first post on this forum. I have been following this IA very closely as I am about to take my first trip on BA to EDI this August in Club World. I have been looking forward to this trip since January when I made the booking.

I was one of the PATCO Air Traffic Controllers that went on strike in 1981 and was terminated (sacked; not killed). I see a lot of parallels with what we were told by our union leaders (as well as the national union leadership) and what the members of Bassa are being fed. Don't believe a bit of it! It is all garbage (rubbish)! They will lead you down the path to ruin. I wish I could post this to the other forum so more Bassa members could see it.

What the Bassa strikers do not understand is the amount of flights flying between the US and the UK that are operating. I have been watching on Flight Aware since this whole thing began. My flight, ATL to LHR, has run close to schedule since the beginning of this IA as well as a lot of other BA airplanes making their way across the pond . My only fear is getting from LHR to EDI. If I have to I will take the train. I have tickets to the Tattoo and do not intend on missing it.

You CC that went to work made the right choice and I hope that you will be the crew that takes care of me on my trip over and back. I would like more than a sandwich though. I fully understand the problems you will face working with the Bassa militants but possibly, as I have seen on the other forum for CC, many think in 90 days they will be gone. I support the CC that went to work. On the next strike ballot simply vote NO! There are more of you than there are of them if I have read these forums correctly. Best of luck to those of you (all departments) that are trying to save one of the world's great airlines.

I support BA!

GCI35 10th Jun 2010 19:10

The point I'm trying to make is: when is a ballot on a new mandate to continue a strike, based on the revised BA offer, suddenly allowed to be online rather than postal? The implications being that those voting against continuation of IA and accepting the offer have to reveal their identity in order to vote. I can't access the BASSA website, but the vitriolic comments levelled at non-strikers and VCC that have appeared on the BA vs BASSA forum is sufficient to put non-striking Unite members in fear of retaliation in one form or another. I hope I'm not being over-dramatic here, but what better way to ensure the vote going Unite's way than to make possible 'yes' voters think twice about revealing their identities and therefore abstaining. It's a cynical ploy to continue this totally unnecessary action. More importantly: is it legal?

Boxkite Montgolfier 10th Jun 2010 19:15

The prospects for yet another ballot by Unite/Bassa ,should surely now concentrate the minds of dissatisfied BA cabin crew. The arguments, reserved justifications,legal clarifications and sheer loyalty of other BA sections are too persuasive to be ignored other than by the bigoted minority.
For those now that profess to be intimidated,bullied or imposed upon, I have no sympathy. Their argument is now redundant and totally transparent.

In my view the divisions are now too entrenched for BA to risk the sour, disgruntled militant strikers back into a customer service scenario. All reports indicate a huge public response to 'on board service' on strike days. This positive reaction must not be jeopardised. The 'Final Solution', hopefully .will now emerge with punitive, justifiable legislation to ensure the 'unemployable' will be released.

101917 10th Jun 2010 19:21

What we have in DH is the UK version of David Koresh of Waco fame and the Rev Jim Jones of the mass suicide in Guyana. Both led their followers, who were not around when the marbles were dished out, into oblivion.

It is quite stunning to observe the power these people have over supposedly intelligent and normal individuals. Should the militant folks be allowed back, BA will no longer be a safe and sound airline.

Tears are going to be shed and they will not be from those supporting BA.

Hartington 10th Jun 2010 20:09

It's the BA AGM on 13th July. Could be interesting to attend for once!

citroman 11th Jun 2010 00:30

I recently heard on a radio discussion a phrase I'd never come across before, it was a term associated with Lenin, "Useful idiots"

I hope that the rank and file members of Bassa take the precaution of checking that they are not being cynically used by the upper ranks of Bassa for other end purposes.

Have a look here: Useful idiot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The term is now used more broadly to describe someone who is perceived to be manipulated by a political movement, terrorist group, hostile government, or business, whether or not the group is Communist in nature."


just an observer 11th Jun 2010 07:06

For GC135 - The online ballot was not 'a new mandate' to continue the strike, the original secret postal mandate to strike was still sufficient.

The online ballot was to see if the offer was acceptable to a majority of union members. Had the earlier immediately before the first strike offer been made available to union members, that would also have been done by online ballot, but BASSA called strike dates and that offer was withdrawn because they had done so. So, it's only ballots to call off a strike that can be online.

But yes, I agree, the fact that it is not a secret ballot could well affect the voting. 28% of eligible voters 'abstained' in the last online ballot, and could presumably be considered no voters if it were a secret one. But it is legal. The secret vote is only legally required for an actual strike mandate, not to call a strike off.

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