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-   -   BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II (https://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/417709-ba-strike-your-thoughts-questions-ii.html)

Ancient Observer 23rd Jun 2010 16:47

Bizdev,
That's a red herring.
BA can deploy their own staff as they think fit. They can employ anyone they like extra on any basis (eg temp or perm).

On the new mixed fleet, I really do hope that they get the management of this right. Like - NONE of the existing managers with their failures over 30 plus years. Get some Tesco/Dulux/Asda managers in.

fincastle84 23rd Jun 2010 17:01

The introduction of mixed fleet proves the utter contempt that BA now have for the Bassa mob. They are obviously considered as being irrelevant to BA's future progress. I can't imagine why Unite are wasting money on yet another useless ballot. Save it for your next wasted conflict against public sector job cuts, another battle that they will lose.

LD12986 23rd Jun 2010 18:07

So will the launch of Mixed Fleet push BASSA into agreeing a deal with BA to secure agreement with the company on its implementation? Or will BASSA use this to push any voters thinking if voting No in the next ballot to vote Yes?

Desk Jockey 23rd Jun 2010 18:43


From that other forum:
Tiramisu
Quote:
if you do move to Mixed Fleet, you cannot be a member of BASSA/AMICUS.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea to exclude the BASSA epsilon minuses from Mixed Fleet, but how does it work?
It doesn't

Direct.gov

Refusal of employment for trade union membership reasons

In order to start work, no employer or employment agency may require you to:
  • join a trade union
  • leave a trade union
  • be a member of a specific trade union
  • become a member of a different trade union
Nor are they allowed to advertise a job with a requirement that you do any of those things.

kenhughes 23rd Jun 2010 21:47

DJ

But the advertisement was for internal transfer to mixed fleet, so the "In order to start work" aspect of that paragraph would appear to be null and void?

Pohutu 23rd Jun 2010 22:01

The Direct.gov site that Desk Jockey quotes goes on to say

Other unfavourable treatment for a trade union membership reason

Treating you unfavourably includes, for example, refusing you promotion or training opportunities, or withholding a pay increase.
If you are a trade union member your employer must not treat you unfairly in order to deter you from:
  • joining a trade union
  • taking part in its activities
  • making use of the services it provides to its members
  • leaving it
which seems to cover the point. I wonder whether the truth of the matter is that, whilst an employee of the new Mixed Fleet could be a member of BASSA / Unite, there will be no union recognition and therefore no collective bargaining rights.

slf22 24th Jun 2010 05:56


Originally Posted by Pohutu (Post 5770742)
I wonder whether the truth of the matter is that, whilst an employee of the new Mixed Fleet could be a member of BASSA / Unite, there will be no union recognition and therefore no collective bargaining rights.

That quote specifically says BASSA/Amicus and doesn't mention Unite. Are BASSA/Amicus trade unions in their own right? Or are they branches of Unite? If the latter is the case then BA are saying you can't be a member of the branch. Which would get around the TU discrimination point.

I was also wondering if this wasn't something to do with the collective bargaining agreements that are already in existence.

call100 24th Jun 2010 07:34

Amicus is the other Union that joined with T&G to form Unite........Bassa are from the old T&G camp.:sad:

johnoWhiskyX 24th Jun 2010 07:38

It could be a ploy to open the door for PCCC as the negotiating body for mixed fleet.
I don't know if PCCC could be and affiliated branch like BASSA is. WW is an old union man and i wouldn't be surprised if some advice was forthcoming on the ins and outs of union affiliation. WW doesnt want unions destroyed..just the bassa loonies.

Someone on the other forum asked a question about the new recruitment for mixed fleet. Specifically why ex temps did not have to make an application, but were being invited back for assesment, but existing temps had to apply.

Err, am i thinking the obvious, that inviting back for assesment will be for those ex temps who were outstanding and allmost certainly not contaminated by bassa, and any bassa bod's currently emplyed can be weeded out by the application process.

But of course that would be discriminatory and wouldnt possible happen:ok:

Desk Jockey 24th Jun 2010 10:06


DJ

But the advertisement was for internal transfer to mixed fleet, so the "In order to start work" aspect of that paragraph would appear to be null and void?
BA will not only recruit internally for new fleet will they?

ChicoG 24th Jun 2010 13:57

Maybe it's only me, but if BA can recruit cabin crew at these much reduced rates, it ought to send a message to the old hands on inflated salaries that they need to justify their much larger packages.

I'm not doubting or criticising for a minute the added value that comes with experience. There will doubtless be many long serving cabin crew whose experience is vital to the smooth running of the operation.

However, not everyone chooses to learn from experience, and certainly it's my belief that there are plenty that benefit from the rewards of "seniority" when all they've really done is hang around doing the same average (or worse) work and benefited from a structure that rewards them just by being there for another year.

What news of these new entry level positions should do is encourage the long timers to amply demonstrate why their years of experience are of extra value to the organisation and justify their packages.

What it will do to many of them is make them look over their shoulders and go running to BASSA for protection that they don't deserve.

Perhaps there is a correlation between the number of strikers and the number of surly, unhelpful BA cabin crew reported on many forums, and which appears supported by many people here and elsewhere who have reported an enjoyable flying experience when they are not around?

jetset lady 24th Jun 2010 14:33


If the latter is the case then BA are saying you can't be a member of the branch. Which would get around the TU discrimination point.

I don't know for sure but I suspect it's far more likely that Unite have said that they will not represent anyone from New Fleet rather than that BA have said there will be no recognition.

Thunderbug 24th Jun 2010 15:21

BA have said that New Fleet will be represented by a different set of Reps to those which represent Worldwide & Eurofleet. So this could be BASSA, but different elected reps, a new union under the Unite umbrella or a completely new outfit such as PCCC.

Basically it is an effort to get new blood and stop the old militant BASSA from infecting New Fleet. Can you imagine Miss Malone & Duncan Holley represented New Fleet? You can that they have done such a good job at LGW and the regions! :ugh:

air pig 24th Jun 2010 16:07

Just spoken to someone who went to Madrid and back a couple of weeks ago by BA with a group of people. No flight from MCR to LHR so was transfered by coach to LHR, even worse on return from Madrid, two hour delay to LHR missed MCR connection, transfered to LGW by coach for MCR flight> Nightmare experience both ways. Another couple of people last night BA lost their luggage on tranfer at LHR, very poor staff service and communication, and you wonder why BA is losing money. Comment from first person " WILL NEVER FLY BA AGAIN."

Emirates made last year the same amounts in profit as BA lost, BASSA need to wake up or see their employer die and their jobs with it.

F3G 24th Jun 2010 16:39

I'm back under a slightly different handle, due to problems with my old account, which works for all fora, bar three.

So my comment on the previous point

BASSA need to wake up or see their employer die and their jobs with it.

Not just BASSA, for they are not the sum of all evil, just part of it.

I spent quite a lot of a client's money on a one way LCA to LHR flight in Club Europe last week and have to say it was a shocking experience.

700 and .....
  • No priority boarding
  • An aircraft (767) that was like a museum piece, e.g. flickering overhead CRT screens
  • No pre flight drink
  • No hot towels
  • Horrible 'canapes' consisting of small pieces of bread with topping (why not nice nuts like EK?)
  • 33" seat pitch (compared to 40" and foot rests on the CY JED/RUH/LCA segments
  • Lousy meals, I declined mine and so did a number of other people
  • A CSD who never spoke to me and seemed to prefer to talk with BA staff travellers
  • Very inattentive service - e.g. no drinks, not even a water round for 2 hours after the meal (had to use the call bell and it took 10 mins to answer, even though several CC were about - belt sign was on, so I had to rely on the bell)
  • Remote stand arrival at LHR, total circus with C and Y crammed into a coach
  • The behaviour of some of the groundstaff was really unprofessional, whooping at their friends 'Oh My God, is that really you......." It's nice to see your friends, but is this the way to behave in front of the customers?
All in all (even though it was not my money) I felt ripped off.

As other forum members will know, I have gone out of my way to balance attacks on BA ground service by complementing the Club World service, which has never disappointed me.

But after this experience, no more Club Europe for me, I could have bought a discounted economy ticket for 120 - next time I'll buy 2, take my own food and water and pocket the difference.

One cannot blame BASSA for the product.

Ancient Observer 24th Jun 2010 17:00

Issues to ballot over...........
 
I've just had a quick skim through the BA CC thread to look for some ideas for a very serious ballot.
As long term readers will know, I've been making my opinions known about this set of issues for over a year now.
I think we're at a point where there are some real crunch issues.

A big ballot is required.

"Are you prpared to go on strike over the following issues?

1. That Chateau Lynch Bages that we liberate from First is just too heavy. We need a lighter wine for our sojourn at the BFC later this Summer.
2. The quality and "spare" stock of Champagne has gone down since 1973. It must be restored immediately.
3. I am no longer entitled to give my mates an upgrade to First when I feel like it. I have to ask the Captain. Seriously, who is running this airplane, darling?
4. BA now expect Reps to turn up for work. This is disgraceful.
5. BA now expect very experienced people like me to push a trolley. In 2007 I earnt 80,000. You really do not expect someone on 80,000 to push a trolley, do you?
6. For 30 years or more, BA have never meant what they said. Especially when it came to discipline. Now they do, and it really must stop. Now.
7. Last year, once, BA made me stay in a 41/2 star hotel in Central. That sort of slippage is the thin end of the wedge. We demand 5 star hotels.
8. That nasty Union Unite only lets us stay in 3 star hotels when we go to their dreary Conferences, or go to their awful courses. BA must fund us for 5 star hotels when we are on Union business.
9. BA want us to take shorter breaks. How on earth are we to take shorter breaks? I need my 8 hours sleep on my lovely NRT trips. Stop this nonsense now.
We look forward to your Vote in favour of Industrial Action."

PAXboy 24th Jun 2010 18:43

ChicoG

However, not everyone chooses to learn from experience, and certainly it's my belief that there are plenty that benefit from the rewards of "seniority" when all they've really done is hang around doing the same average (or worse) work and benefited from a structure that rewards them just by being there for another year.
Since this is what happens in EVERY line of work, commerce, trade, profession, govt and commercial that I have ever seen and worked in (30 years of it since I left college) then you can see why they think that they should be allowed to get away with it too.

Diplome 24th Jun 2010 22:04

PAXboy:

Being married to the head of a rather significant entity here in the U.K., and owning my own business in the U.S., I can assure you that simply because you have managed to maintain pulmonary functioning in your position for a time certain is NOT going to bring you promotion in my world.

If New Fleet brings anything to BA, one of the issues I hoped to be addressed is the promotion of "common" simply because common has been there longer than capable.

JackMcHammocklashing 25th Jun 2010 00:02

Dear Willie Walsh or minion scanning the forums
 
Are you aware, that among the 3 Million unemployed, there are around 80.000 attractive under 23 year olds, who would be more than happy to work for less than 12k per year, and staff travel would be an extra delight, After doing UNI getting a 2:1 degree Now flipping burgers, or indeed no employment at all

Indeed add another 200 thousand unemployed, who have left education,and would give anything to flip burgers, let alone travel the world and recieve payment for doing so, Would be more than happy to be given an extra tenner, for a fish supper in a foreign land whilst sleeping in a youth hostel before the flight back
They would not even attempt to ask for extra as the lock was broken, indeed many of the accomodations did not even have a door

Many work for coaching companies, and provide hostess service for 36hrs whilst traveling to Italy, or Croatia in return for an afternoon on the beach, and a lunch before starting the 36hr return journey on the same coach all for 10k per year and a suntan (10k as minimum wage not applicable outside the UK)

If the Royal Navy can teach an uneducated 15yearold, to fight crash on deck fires, and tween deck fuel fires, save lives and rescue, then I am sure you can do it to 21year old graduates (perhaps not today no CDF) Before they push the trolley up and down offering tea coffe, you fu coffee and duty free (though maybe need a little more training as on my last flight the CC had a problem that two pens at 12.60 each was not 30.30)

ie:- BA crew are not speshul anyone can do it, Visit brewers fayre, or wetherspoons, or cheap airlines, You WILL find quality people working for minimum wages

All these people are proud keen and clean, more than willing to work a hard shift, even more so for the prestige of working for BA

Offer the BA experience with EASYJET OR RYANAIR CREW and your fortunes are made

Jack McH

PAXboy 25th Jun 2010 00:44

Diplome

Being married to the head of a rather significant entity here in the U.K., and owning my own business in the U.S., I can assure you that simply because you have managed to maintain pulmonary functioning in your position for a time certain is NOT going to bring you promotion in my world.
Sure, I'm not saying that I support people loafing around!! When I was a telecomms consultant in the 1990s/early 2000s, I was very frustrated by seeing people being paid high sums of money when they knew very little about their job! They had just hung in there long enough, not upset anyone and bumbled along. As long as they did not make any major foul ups - they stayed in place.

It's not how it should be but it's how it often is. The larger the company the more difficult it is to trap time servers and wastrels. If those staff are often away from base (almost any travel company but you can include drivers of vehicles for delivery who were only restricted when the Tachometer began law and other workers away from base) then you have a major managerial problem. Many, many, many companies fail in that task.


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