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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
As before........
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So, was there anyone there? Did the two above notables turn up and, if so, did they say anything worthy/of note/sensible/true? (Delete as improbable). I've done a few searches and found references to his remarks with a few quotes but nothing of substance. Would be happy to re-search and provide you links. Like you I have been listening for a message with solid information regarding direction. Perhaps the BASSA evening message recounting the thousands of people at Bedfont will provide us with some insight. |
Len was seen today.
Acas and TUC attempt to avert new BA strikes | Business | The Guardian
Len was at Bedfont FC and appeared briefly on the Channel 4 news coverage. In case any CC have not got the message there was a short clip of W Walsh saying his bit at the IATA get together. |
I'm surprised that nobody has yet commented on Mr Simpson's interview on Radio 4 this am. When asked what he was recommending for future action as the "leader", his response was to the effect that it wasn't for the leadership to support/recommend voting on any particular course of action, but for the union high-ups to follow what the members told them in any ballot. Read into that whatever you will !
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There is a lot of talk about fear and bullying from both sides
Eddy in the staff only thread Those being interviewed on Channel 4 who claim to live in a climate of fear and bullying, and then those like myself who see BA as a great place to work with some (in general) great people, enjoying great compensation and benefits. I must be missing the bullying stuff somehow..... Not to reveal her Pprune name Not to appear on any photos (except on her or my camera) Yes she, to some degree, lives in fear, but is determined to carry on. That is the effect of the BASSA "we're being bullied by BA" members |
Holley's latest
Right, before I start my last – for now – blog from Bedfont, it is best to warn you that I have had a drink or two. The atmosphere there was so fantastic, to be honest it was impossible not to linger and share a pint and bathe in all the warmth, camaraderie and shear emotion. Today saw the biggest crew room party of all time – we reckon, and this is not exaggeration, that at least 20% of the total BA crew population were at Bedfont today. The turnout was simply overwhelming and the march along the Bath Rd to Waterside was something that will go down in folklore. Pity the poor stewardess, who in her excitement, walked into a lamp post and ended up nursing the biggest black eye I have ever seen. Hard luck Ali – I hope your husband believes you! Before I forget or the drink catches up with me, I have got to mention 4 crew who were there today who live in Edinburgh. They caught the 06:30 flight down to LGW, then bussed to Bedfont before standing on a picket line for 4 hours; they then bussed back to LGW to catch the late afternoon flight back to EDI. Why? They had heard so much about the Bedfont buzz they had to come see for themselves and they were so pleased they had – the only downside was they had paid full fare on BA. Their actions shame the Sausage Chips And BeanS. And incredibly it seems you all have more stamina than the SWP, either that or they have given you up as a lost cause because they have not been seen at Bedfont for 2 days. Perhaps they are mobilising again at ACAS. Tony won’t be happy. I have been asked to mention the two nuns who were waving vigorously as the open top bus did its circuit – they obviously have no time for Wee Willy either! Also thank you for the yesterday’s whip round for Mr Dillon, the samosas man organised by Andrea. I have, thanks to your kind donations, 8 bottles of top quality scotch to give him which should just about last him until the next strike. Lenny’s speech went down a bomb as did his pink shirt – and thanks to Ken Livingstone and John McDonnell for taking the trouble to visit. While on the subject of pink – that was some display of solidarity. It is incredibly uplifting to see all the straight lads (and lasses) rallying to the cause and, if there is a broader “church” than the BASSA membership then I am unaware of it. I think that it is this diversity that is so remarkable – young old, straight gay, British foreign, you name it crew come in all colours, shapes and sizes (cue references to the Bedfont burger bulge) and yet today it was if we were all one. Don’t want to come over all spiritual or evangelical- especially when I have had a few – but I really mean it when I say how proud I felt tonight as Louise and I headed home to try and find our feral kids. Thanks for all your support. I would have looked a bit stupid standing in the burger queue by myself. So the season has finally ended for Bedfont FC – it is time for the summer break - with matches again scheduled to start at the beginning of August. It is true we did not win the League, nor were we promoted but there again, neither have we been relegated! We live to fight another season and if we can persuade some new players to join our team in the summer perhaps we can push Bedfont to the top of the table. Many of you probably don’t realise this but the last few months have really been ground breaking and historically important. We have already mounted one of the longest strikes in aviation history and we have taken on one of the largest, most ruthless, nastiest blue chip companies ever to darken this countries’ social fabric and we are still standing strong, preparing for more. Many years from now you will look back on this summer and say “I am so glad and proud I did what I did”, I wonder if Willie Walsh will feel that same pride? Tomorrow I have my first appeal against my sacking at Waterworld. I am not holding my breath as, all along, it has, imo been “pre-ordained”, but despite “squeezing tea-bags” for 34 years I feel no sorrow because the company I have left. It seems to me that Bassa are in total disarray, which is reinforced by the total silence from the usual Bassa contributors on the various forums. I imagine that Mr Walsh will be sleeping very soundly tonight. |
Are we talking about the same company?
We have already mounted one of the longest strikes in aviation history and we have taken on one of the largest, most ruthless, nastiest blue chip companies ever to darken this countries’ social fabric and we are still standing strong, preparing for more. Many years from now you will look back on this summer and say “I am so glad and proud I did what I did”, I wonder if Willie Walsh will feel that same pride? Tomorrow I have my first appeal against my sacking at Waterworld. I am not holding my breath as, all along, it has, imo been “pre-ordained”, but despite “squeezing tea-bags” for 34 years I feel no sorrow because the company I have left. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that this sort of purple prose exactly typifies the utterly confused, rather hysterical and completely direction-less thinking that BASSA have fomented, propagated and encouraged. Is there any wonder we don't get rational replies and fact filled statements from anyone in control in the Unite branch? one of the largest, most ruthless, nastiest blue chip companies ever to darken this countries’ social fabric all along, it has, imo been “pre-ordained” I feel no sorrow because the company I have left Roger. |
Landroger
Someone posted an excellent post here, many many posts ago, on Cult behaviour....
You will never, ever, convince the hardcore Bassamentalists or change their views, no matter how logical, fact, true or expert your opinions are. The cult has told them what to beleive. So, dont even bother and waste the energy. Fortunately, some of the led lemmings are starting to think for themselves.... But, the fundamental problem was created through years and years of weak BA management, possibly, in the bad directionless old days, BASSA felt they had to take charge of IFCE with such weak mangement.....? Now, there is a strong CEO who wants control of his company back......but BASSA got drunk on that previous, arguably, necessary power? Their big mistake is failing to yield to someone who, at last, they can hand over the reins to and pass the company back into compentant hands? So there is no polarity in blame.... A bit of a devils advocate post...... |
Len McCluskey, the assistant general secretary of Unite, told strikers at Heathrow airport on the last day of three five-day walkouts today that the union was "up for a rematch". And, writing under a pseudonym, a "BA Long haul pilot" is quoted as saying: ""Having recently returned from a trip during the strike, what 'outsiders' can't see is the fear, intimidation and unsustainable conditions endured by those who are working." He should have been more specific about who is doing the intimidation. |
I fail to see how working staff are intimidated and bullied by striking cabin crew. They were not there by definition.
I don't think there is much truth from either camp. People will choose to believe whatever camp they follow. |
Duncan forgot to add...
Many of you probably don’t realise this but the last few months have really been ground breaking and historically important. We have already mounted one of the longest strikes in aviation history and we have taken on one of the largest, most ruthless, nastiest blue chip companies ever to darken this countries’ social fabric and we are still standing strong, preparing for more.
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Boyd on BBC 1
Some Unite person named Boyd was on BBC 1 @ 07.10 today. Yet again he gave no indication as to the date or subject for a further ballot.
Interestingly, even the BBC interviewer was very unsympathetic to Unite/ Bassa & quoted several emails from both the public & CC protesting against IA. Methinks that the tide has turned decisively against the militants.:ok: |
I saw the interview too, he referred again to half empty planes and customers being flown on other airlines, I believe he quoted Virgin and BMI.
We ll I was booked on 4 flights in the strike period 3 off which were opereted by BA aircraft and all full and the other yes I was moved to BMI (not really relevant but the BMI flight was abou a 3rd full). |
From the other thread, posted by ottergirl
The new wording for the next phase of industrial action.
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BASSA is clutching at straws
Many years from now you will look back on this summer and say “I am so glad and proud I did what I did”, I wonder if Willie Walsh will feel that same pride? The truth is that BASSA is no longer the force it was (if it ever was) and has shown such gross mis-management and foresight it now has to look inwards to see how far they have truly let their members down. To the detriment of its members it now has few, in any, alternatives to take a further stance on ST as just one example. They knew well that this was a perk and warned again and again that it would be taken from them. Fighting for it was NEVER an option, it was always there. So, when BASSA turned down perfectly acceptable offers and went on strike they shot themselves in the foot. I doubt that UNITE have ever come across a situation like that before. What a useless exercise that was and once again proved how silly and stupid they had been. UNITE then took the strike to a 'NEW' level - and changed the reason for striking for the return of ST! What a ridiculous thing to happen. So now the union is clutching at straws. Inventing nasty little stories about BA bullying its staff while all the time it is they bullying their own members. Time after time they try to impress using the 'success' of the Bedfont fiasco. Claiming massive support by filling one bus or 300 or 400 hundred eating whatever DH can come up with. At best they were incentives paid for by DH at worst they were a pathetic attempt to persuade others to join in. For it to be effective there should have been 2000 or 3000+ there. Where were they? The press were never going to be interested in a group of cats posing as lions. It is time to be realistic and accept that your gripes were badly mis-handled by your reps using dirty tactics that go back to the bad old days of unions. Since then the whole wicked world of the bad old unions has been to to sleep. I sincerely hope that if BASSA has another ballot it it will fail. Simply because the guys and girls of BA are far far better than having out of date thinking by rabble rouser's representing them. I truly wish the cc staff, and the whole of BA well. I know that it will come good if you all get out from under the power of self seeking, power hungry despots. Good luck. |
To summarise Unite's reasons for the next proposed strikes for the three bullet points listed:
1. To prevent BA from ever again being in a position to defend itself against industrial action. 2. To prevent BA from ever again being in a position to give incentives to staff not to strike. 3. To allow staff to behave as they wish during IA without any possible recourse. Does even the most blinkered BASSA member think BA will roll over and accept any of this? Do they intend to strike indefinately? |
Mariner9:
No. 3 may be a bit of a problem for BASSA. If discussion regarding what some of these disciplinaries were really about becomes public it will remove much of BASSA's argument regarding who was bullying and bring to light for many in the public how outrageous and threatening some of the militants have been. I notice in public statements that the disciplinary matters are always described to the press as "simply posting a comment on Facebook"...or "mostly trivial" and they never state what specifically was posted on Facebook, etc.. BASSA may have opened a can of worms with this request. |
So what say you IR legal eagles? High court trip? The question is will BA take court action before any proposed strike commences to try and prevent it, or will they take action after it has started hoping to get a ruling against it which could result in strikes being considered an extension of the current dispute, and therefore unprotected strike action allowing BA far more freedom in their subsequent actions. But I’m no eagle, more of a budgie I would suggest! |
I think an injuction to stop the strikes really just keeps the problem bubbling away so my guess would be the second option - wait for the strikes and take the unions to court for compensation first. If that battle is won then the strikers will by implication have been taking part in unprotected industrial action and have to face the consequences.
All of that of course assumes that BASSA \ Unite win a ballot for further strike action. By no means guaranteed. |
Whatever the issues, will the turkeys yet again vote for Christmas or will it eventually dawn on Bassa members that Mr Walsh is NOT going to surrender; indeed he is ever closer to a victory.
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If discussion regarding what some of these disciplinaries were really about becomes public it will remove much of BASSA's argument regarding who was bullying I don't think that either the court, or public opinion, would have much sympathy with Unite once the facts are known. It might be better for Unite to drop #3 and let the public continue to believe that the crew were disciplined for 'expressing their views'. |
All of that of course assumes that BASSA \ Unite win a ballot for further strike action. By no means guaranteed. What is surprising is that ALL three points are issues that arise directly out of the strike action. I would have thought that BASSA would have developed a list that has a greater appeal for its membership as a whole. |
Where are the Managers and Directors??
Where are the managers and the Directors? Who is painting the compelling vision for the future? Who is seeking to engage the great staff that BA clearly have - Tira, JSL et al??
BA are allowing Bassa and the Bassa Broadcasting Corp to lead this dispute. The managers and directors should be out there talking about a great future, rather than being buried in committee rooms with their lawyers. Visible managers excited about the future could - if they are good enough, overcome all this Bassastuff - unless the managers too believe what Bassa believe - that the corrupt practices of 30 + years will return when WW goes............ As I've said before.............. IMHO, BA need an action plan 1. to change most of the managers involved, (I know, Diplome, I've said this too often - but the current lot appear to be still asking bassa for permission to serve their customers. Madness). 2. to remove any CSD who is unable/unwilling to demonstrate that their actual behaviour, (not words, and not an interview) has been fully supportive of BAs customers 3. to remove the current CSD job completely, and to replace it with a proper Customer Service Supervisor role. Recruit for this new job from the best of the current total BA CC population - but only allow 49% of the new CSS to be from BA, with 51% recruited from Tesco, John Lewis and etc. 4. Jfdi with respect to New Fleet, and insist that the folk in BA who actually do the recruitment to NF are their brightest and best. Don't let the current lot recruit in their own image. For induction and early training - Use the best of PPF and PPF2 from all those years ago. 5. Give notice - say, 6 months, that all the current T & C are going to be changed. Get rid of all the T & C that cause the many and varied "Spanish" practices and spurious reasons for payment. (Dodgy lightbulbs in LH crew rest places, 2 + hours breaks for SH etc). Make all CC work like they do at EZY. Implement new pay system no matter what bassa say. 6. The Leadership team need to paint a compelling vision of the "New BA" that good current staff and all future staff can imagine themselves in to. Give some hope and aspiration to a workforce that wants more positive meaning from its workplace. Listenning to Tira, JSL, and some of the VCC on the other thread - the raw material is in BA, but I'm not sure that it's being nurtured and fed properly! 7. Hire some much better managers, from well outside Aviation. The inspirational types are available on the market place, but Aviation is not the sector to find them in. 8. Do some real customer service surveys, that the new CSS cannot influence. Make them cheap and cheerful, but accurate. BT do this very well, and even Virgin do try to get real feedback. 9. Employ, via an agency, (not BA staff) some real "Mystery flyers" who will fully report on BA's flying experience for customers, and whose reports really impact managers' salaries. 10. Insist that Captains fully own the total in-flight experience of customers. 11. Publish (anonymised) pay of all BA CC who earn in gross terms a penny over the National average wage. (Currently c £25,000). 12. Pay expenses as incurred. Get rid of the rich, and corrupting influence of the NRT etc golden wheelbarrows. .................... Well, that's a start................ |
If I understand correctly, Bassa/Unite are not allowed to continue or re-ballot on the same strike issue (imposition). They therefore need to seek a reason to strike. Unfortunately they appear to have chosen to ballot on strike action that they cannnot win.
The wording of the ballot, if it is to include the 3 aforementioned points in previous posts will be interesting though. |
Willie Walsh has refused his bonus (334K of shares) for the second year running.
Meanwhile, back in the 70's: Union leaders said there would have been "uproar" if Mr Walsh had pocketed a bonus this year. Len McCluskey, Unite's assistant general secretary, said: "His plans for BA have seen it become a byword for bullying, driving customers into the arms of competitors, poisoned working relations and is denying the airline a peaceful, stable future. "This is not success, it is ruination of a great British company. There should be no bonus and no mega-pot of shares until BA sorts the cabin crew dispute." *** (That means saying "No" all the time till your red nose glows in the dark). |
9. Employ, via an agency, (not BA staff) some real "Mystery flyers" who will fully report on BA's flying experience for customers, and whose reports really impact managers' salaries.
I agree on the mystery flyers. But i would prefer them to be BA employed. I'm on the recieving end of external contractors and quite frankly they are only there to make money, service isn't in their vocabulary. Lets face it, even if BA implemented mystery flyers, the jobs would go to someone with a relative allready working at BA, rather than real people with a passion for BA, travel, customer service and has no connection with BA at all at present. I would have to agree with your comments regarding certain posters on the CC forum. there appears to be some excellent folk with heads screwed on that should be nurtured. they may allready be in management positions for all i know, but if they aren't they should be. External managers without flight experience are essential, managers are there to manage staff, intimate knowledge of a plane, loading dock, cockpit is not essential, desirable yes , but not essential. |
I agree 99% with Len McCluskey
Len McCluskey, Unite's assistant general secretary, said: "His plans for BA have seen it become a byword for bullying, driving customers into the arms of competitors, poisoned working relations and is denying the airline a peaceful, stable future". Should be 'BASSA's' |
baggersup, I perceive that they aren't going to ballot for IA based upon the reinstatement of the perk so much as the means by which it was removed. Yes, they were warned Staff Travel would be removed but their (untested) legal belief is that you cannot be 'punished' by your employer for participating in IA. Thin ice in my books, and largely outside the scope of original reasons for the dispute, but the outcome in court/employment tribunal would be interesting. It might all become irrelevant anyway if BA go down the SOSR route.
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Having said that, previous messages about mystery shoppers got huge responses in an old thread here, saying BASSA would go absolutely mental if that were done and would not stand for that in any circumstances |
Pending ballot
YouGov; Industrial Action Ballots.
1. "You should be allowed to vote in secret without interference from a Trade Union or its officials." 2. "Your Trade Union is not allowed to ask any of its members to take part, or to continue taking part, in Industrial Action unless it has held a properly conducted secret ballot." 3. "Voting is by post." My understanding is that the ballot for the strike that ended yesterday was conducted online whereby the members had to identify themselves. Are there any legal eagles who'd care to comment. Just a thought. |
Mariner9:
If I could rate up a post yours would be my choice. :D |
The ballot for the strike just ended was conducted by post and counted by the electoral reform society (I think).
The online ballot recently was just to ask CC if they would accept BA's latest offer. They were recommended to turn it down by Unite, as in the parent union, not BASSA, as it did not return staff travel unconditionally, nor stop the disciplinaries. Interestingly, Woodley and Simpson speaking for Unite the parent union, did approve the financial package. However there was always a doubt that BASSA would not agree the financial package anyway, on the grounds of no guarantees etc. |
Re The Above
BASSA going "absolutely mental" over a management suggestion would seem to completely vindicate management's point.
It seems that the BASSA leaders are all Frankie Howard fans; well, most of them are of that vintage. I quote: "Nay, Nay and thrice Nay!" |
This is my first post on this forum. I have been following this IA very closely as I am about to take my first trip on BA to EDI this August in Club World. I have been looking forward to this trip since January when I made the booking.
I was one of the PATCO Air Traffic Controllers that went on strike in 1981 and was terminated (sacked; not killed). I see a lot of parallels with what we were told by our union leaders (as well as the national union leadership) and what the members of Bassa are being fed. Don't believe a bit of it! It is all garbage (rubbish)! They will lead you down the path to ruin. I wish I could post this to the other forum so more Bassa members could see it. What the Bassa strikers do not understand is the amount of flights flying between the US and the UK that are operating. I have been watching on Flight Aware since this whole thing began. My flight, ATL to LHR, has run close to schedule since the beginning of this IA as well as a lot of other BA airplanes making their way across the pond . My only fear is getting from LHR to EDI. If I have to I will take the train. I have tickets to the Tattoo and do not intend on missing it. You CC that went to work made the right choice and I hope that you will be the crew that takes care of me on my trip over and back. I would like more than a sandwich though. I fully understand the problems you will face working with the Bassa militants but possibly, as I have seen on the other forum for CC, many think in 90 days they will be gone. I support the CC that went to work. On the next strike ballot simply vote NO! There are more of you than there are of them if I have read these forums correctly. Best of luck to those of you (all departments) that are trying to save one of the world's great airlines. I support BA! |
The point I'm trying to make is: when is a ballot on a new mandate to continue a strike, based on the revised BA offer, suddenly allowed to be online rather than postal? The implications being that those voting against continuation of IA and accepting the offer have to reveal their identity in order to vote. I can't access the BASSA website, but the vitriolic comments levelled at non-strikers and VCC that have appeared on the BA vs BASSA forum is sufficient to put non-striking Unite members in fear of retaliation in one form or another. I hope I'm not being over-dramatic here, but what better way to ensure the vote going Unite's way than to make possible 'yes' voters think twice about revealing their identities and therefore abstaining. It's a cynical ploy to continue this totally unnecessary action. More importantly: is it legal?
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The prospects for yet another ballot by Unite/Bassa ,should surely now concentrate the minds of dissatisfied BA cabin crew. The arguments, reserved justifications,legal clarifications and sheer loyalty of other BA sections are too persuasive to be ignored other than by the bigoted minority.
For those now that profess to be intimidated,bullied or imposed upon, I have no sympathy. Their argument is now redundant and totally transparent. In my view the divisions are now too entrenched for BA to risk the sour, disgruntled militant strikers back into a customer service scenario. All reports indicate a huge public response to 'on board service' on strike days. This positive reaction must not be jeopardised. The 'Final Solution', hopefully .will now emerge with punitive, justifiable legislation to ensure the 'unemployable' will be released. |
What we have in DH is the UK version of David Koresh of Waco fame and the Rev Jim Jones of the mass suicide in Guyana. Both led their followers, who were not around when the marbles were dished out, into oblivion.
It is quite stunning to observe the power these people have over supposedly intelligent and normal individuals. Should the militant folks be allowed back, BA will no longer be a safe and sound airline. Tears are going to be shed and they will not be from those supporting BA. |
It's the BA AGM on 13th July. Could be interesting to attend for once!
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I recently heard on a radio discussion a phrase I'd never come across before, it was a term associated with Lenin, "Useful idiots"
I hope that the rank and file members of Bassa take the precaution of checking that they are not being cynically used by the upper ranks of Bassa for other end purposes. Have a look here: Useful idiot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "The term is now used more broadly to describe someone who is perceived to be manipulated by a political movement, terrorist group, hostile government, or business, whether or not the group is Communist in nature." Citroman |
For GC135 - The online ballot was not 'a new mandate' to continue the strike, the original secret postal mandate to strike was still sufficient.
The online ballot was to see if the offer was acceptable to a majority of union members. Had the earlier immediately before the first strike offer been made available to union members, that would also have been done by online ballot, but BASSA called strike dates and that offer was withdrawn because they had done so. So, it's only ballots to call off a strike that can be online. But yes, I agree, the fact that it is not a secret ballot could well affect the voting. 28% of eligible voters 'abstained' in the last online ballot, and could presumably be considered no voters if it were a secret one. But it is legal. The secret vote is only legally required for an actual strike mandate, not to call a strike off. |
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