fincastle84
 

You missed out the flown hours from your post.

Yes, it certainly is difficlut to find a negative view of BASSA reps on any forum where they control the moderation!

So, Ancient Observer, at the end of that extremely interesting post of yours, and purely because I'm too lazy to research it, what was the appeal judgement or guidance on reasonable time off for union duties?

But work loads for union business such as balloting and the like in 1982 must be a far cry from those of today where the Internet and perhaps reduced numbers of union members surely enormously reduces time required for extraneous duties associated with union management. So any guidance from the Court of Appeal in 1982 would have been predicated on old working practices?

Blimey, Fin, I am not surprised you are one concerned shareholder.
45, 000 quid divided by 20 hours = 2,150 quid per hour!
I think BALPA should be told!

Litebulbs
 

I have over the years got to know a number of people within cabin services, and the ones who I trust and who trust me have mentioned MANY scenarios about what Bassa have got upto. Now I'm not being naive, BUT as I said these are people I implicitely trust. The stories of Bassa not turning up at numerous meetings is well recorded as an example. In fact CC89 regularly got fed up of that happening to them as well. DH mentioned on radio 5live, that ALTHOUGH Bassa didn't win the 97 dispute, it meant BA brought in a more softer person to deal with them. Over the next 8 years the lovely but ineffective Joy Hordern ( or joy Hidden as she was known as) did pretty much everything DH and his troops wanted. Hence according to DH all was happy. It was only when WW appointed Simon Talling-Smith that things started to change.

A dear friend of mine sat in the same office as Joy for years, and used to tell me that Bassa had her EXACTLY where they wanted her. Any problems and the little threats started.

Now I know that its not that simple, but I don't think I'm far from the truth. As for putting even a percentage of what I've written on Crew forum or the Bassa forum would result in the the usual - you must be a pilot/ waterworld latte drinker, VVC etc!

I seem to remember it being under the reign of Horden and Street that Bassa got BA Ops to divert an aircraft in flight as the crew were at risk of going outside their industrial agreement (not scheme). The lever was threats of non-cooperation. Can you imagine that happening now? Just goes to show what a crazy messed up organisation BA once was.

There aren't many outside camp Bassa who have known all the things that they have done over the years, but I bet WW has been told/advised of many of them. Thats why what is happening now will not change and the likes of DH,LM and the rest are still it seems in deep denial

From the GMB website

This proves that BA can negotiate and so can unions (except BASSA). Also proves that BA are not into "breaking" unions. Anyone from BASSA care to comment on the last paragraph.

It's all about working together and this proves it beyond doubt.

Ex

Can anybody explain to me why an organisation with 10,000 (??) , members paying £15 per month each does not employ professional staff to look after membership records, ballot organising etc. These tasks require no special sector industry knowledge. Surely, sensible convention would be that the reps represent members interest rather than undertaking the time consuming administrative minutiae ? Nor is it reasonable that an employer is compelled to release an individual rep to undertake such duties, whilst being paid by the employer ?

I can understand a union branch of say 50 people needing to do the admin voluntarily, but for a group with membership fees exceeding £1.8m pa it beggars belief. Or is there some ulterior reason for the union branch to organise this way ?

cavorting.

It's easy to research, there is an acas code, and all the time off
provisions were brought together in sections 168 - 170 of the Trade
Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992.
Although 1982 is a long time ago, most of the post Thatcher Employment legislation in this area dates back to the 80s and earlier.
Union duties must relate to the official’s own employer
and not, for example, to any associated employer.

There is a distinction between duties and activities.

If DH has said in the public domain that he wanted the time off to update the branch records, that is, at best an activity, not a duty. Some ETs would NOT even regard it as an activity as defined by the law and acas.

Duties are to do with the relationship with the employer.
I should not repeat theacas code here. You can find it at

http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/l/q/CP03_1.pdf

Note one quote "There is no right to time off for trade union activities which themselves consist of industrial action." getting a ballot ready for Industrial action will fall in to this category.

Finally - it is the Rep's task to ASK FOR time off - not to just take it!


On the GMB deal, the GMB is run more as a business than as a "battling" TU. It is more interested in gaining members and organising the members than it is in striking - but as they've shown at Astra Zeneca, if they have to strike they will do. Both Mick Rix (Aviation) and Alan Black. (Chems/Pharms) are people who can do deals. Mick has an interesting background................

Alan should be a Prof. at a leading Business School. Quite why he's an FTO I have no idea.

Ancient Observer,
Thank you for that very detailed explanation to my question which I much appreciate. The ACAS document is a little open to individual interpretation I should have thought. So thank you for pointing out some of the more salient points. I would have think it reasonable to assume that anyone who was used to working within the framework of the document would be well aware of its actual boundaries. Reasonable however was always a very individual word and has often been left to the law courts in its interpretation.

Its not just a GMB deal, Unites members on the ground have also voted and accepted overwhelmingly.

A reasonable solution to that problem, and to the general one of people "going sick" before an unpopular trip, might be to arrange matters so that on returning to work their first trip was the one they missed. A side effect would be that anyone missing a lucrative trip for a genuine reason would not lose out.

Your Prayers Are Requested
 

It would appear that the BA strike-related threads, both here and in "the other place" are mortally ill and that their demise is imminently expected.

These long-running, contentious, but often amusing discussions have gone through a number of incarnations. Now they are being deprived of the nourishment of readers' contributions and the consequent oxygen of publicity.

While the dates of the funerals have, understandably, yet to be announced mourners are earnestly requested not to send flowers - yellow or otherwise.

Grateful thanks are extended to all contributors who expressed sympathy (or otherwise) for the causes discussed on the threads.

The probable cause of death has been diagnosed as apathy and boredom.

Hello CCC ... the oxygen of publicity indeed. I now have to remind myself to read [occasionally] the outpourings on the subject, as they have become so empty of interest.

Ho-hum ... I'm flying BA, and I'm asking myself what that BASSA nausea was all about ;)

Yawn!
 

Yes, it's all become so tiresome, so I'm off to the Military bits to see if I can inveigle Fin 84 into a bit of banter.
Back when this one generates some interest.

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/yawnstretch.gif

Quote:

---

The probable cause of death has been diagnosed as apathy and boredom

---

Some of us died of these afflictions rather earlier than today


:)

TS ... you have my genuine sympathy, as you have had to read all this stuff. ;)

However, it's nearly over now ...





... probably. :cool:

MPN11
I also sympathize with TS. When this is over, I shall miss her sensible posts though, for they were always worth reading.

Given the potential for riotous assembly and unruly behaviour on this thread (and the one in 'another place') I reckon the mods have done a tremendous job in keeping it on the island. :)

Thanks Mods. :ok:

Roger.