BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
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In all honesty it sounds like Mr. Holley sees the writing on the wall..and at this point he is in defensive posture trying desperately to rewrite history.
Its like that fellow in Iraq who was swearing that the troops weren't in Baghad.
Really? I'm sure that Mr. Holley was weeping over his keyboard as he typed those words.
Iberia Merger? Check
Crewing Imposition? Check
American Alliance? Check
Increase in service level after each strike? Check
Mixed Fleet? Check
Support of Public and Street? Check
Improved Financial Reports? Check
BASSA at this point would be lucky to be able to shut down a computer, let alone an airline.
Its like that fellow in Iraq who was swearing that the troops weren't in Baghad.
It has stopped BA in their tracks
Iberia Merger? Check
Crewing Imposition? Check
American Alliance? Check
Increase in service level after each strike? Check
Mixed Fleet? Check
Support of Public and Street? Check
Improved Financial Reports? Check
BASSA at this point would be lucky to be able to shut down a computer, let alone an airline.
Last edited by Diplome; 12th Nov 2010 at 13:46. Reason: Clarity
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And in case you haven't read the Cabin Crew thread.
MF are wearing...HATS! How much more of this corporate bullying can legacy crew handle? Other people have got HATS!!!!! and they don't...... give me strength.
MF wouldn't even exist if BASSA and CC89 had done their job, and negotiated with BA. And now apparently the fact that MF wear hats is a point of major concern to legacy crew. They obviously aren't concerned by the fact that their "leaders" have sold them down the river to pursue their own vendetta against BA and continue to draw money from union coffers despite not even being BA employees any longer....
Why don't they just say enough is enough, and leave BASSA? I really can't believe that a group of people can be so obtuse as not to see that the way ahead is for BASSA to become irrelevant. Just leave, membership numbers will fall below the level required for recognition and BASSA disappears up it's own backside. Simple.
MF are wearing...HATS! How much more of this corporate bullying can legacy crew handle? Other people have got HATS!!!!! and they don't...... give me strength.
MF wouldn't even exist if BASSA and CC89 had done their job, and negotiated with BA. And now apparently the fact that MF wear hats is a point of major concern to legacy crew. They obviously aren't concerned by the fact that their "leaders" have sold them down the river to pursue their own vendetta against BA and continue to draw money from union coffers despite not even being BA employees any longer....
Why don't they just say enough is enough, and leave BASSA? I really can't believe that a group of people can be so obtuse as not to see that the way ahead is for BASSA to become irrelevant. Just leave, membership numbers will fall below the level required for recognition and BASSA disappears up it's own backside. Simple.
DH's latest can be summarised that fighting BA was more important than actually achieving anything "tangible" (to use his word). Explains why there can be no settlement in this dispute - there's nothing BASSA actually want other than to fight. Miss M talks of guarantees but is seemingly unable to explain just what guarantees she is after.
I wonder how many CC who lost wages/ST/Payrise/free tickets/shareoptions/guaranteed salary through MPT, endured crew complement reductions, and have watched the introduction of Mixed Fleet etc will be pleased to have nothing tangible in return other than to say they have fought their employers?
I wonder how many CC who lost wages/ST/Payrise/free tickets/shareoptions/guaranteed salary through MPT, endured crew complement reductions, and have watched the introduction of Mixed Fleet etc will be pleased to have nothing tangible in return other than to say they have fought their employers?
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Dual Ground, the lady who 'complained' about the hats has left BASSA, prior to the strike, she is not one of the obtuse who swallow the BASSA line. She does not deserve your comments.
The point she is making is that BA are making lots of positive gestures towards Mixed Fleet, and treating the existing CC who backed BA by working throughout the IA in the same way as they are the strikers, in fact in 5 cases worse, as 5 strikers have become CSMs on Mixed Fleet.
The hat is no more than a symbol of those positive gestures.
Mind you, it's not clear how BA can treat the non strikers any better than strikers without breaking the law, but just treating Mixed Fleet the same as all the rest would be a start I guess. I daresay they will in time, it's all new at the moment.
The point she is making is that BA are making lots of positive gestures towards Mixed Fleet, and treating the existing CC who backed BA by working throughout the IA in the same way as they are the strikers, in fact in 5 cases worse, as 5 strikers have become CSMs on Mixed Fleet.
The hat is no more than a symbol of those positive gestures.
Mind you, it's not clear how BA can treat the non strikers any better than strikers without breaking the law, but just treating Mixed Fleet the same as all the rest would be a start I guess. I daresay they will in time, it's all new at the moment.
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hats
I was under the impression that not everyone gets hats because of the cost to BA.
As Mixed fleet are on cheaper contracts, BA can afford to give them these, without hurting profit margins.
I think, and perhaps understandably, people are reading to much into it?
As Mixed fleet are on cheaper contracts, BA can afford to give them these, without hurting profit margins.
I think, and perhaps understandably, people are reading to much into it?
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What does Mr Walsh do now?
Given that Unite/Duncy/CC89 have all elected not to ballot or recommend this deal, what happens now to all those crew who elected to strike, or the many who did not? Will BA simply go on as they are, or should Mr Walsh simply invoke the 90 day option, introduce the new deal on a take it or leave it basis? Any ideas anyone, just what can be done?
Incidentally I bumped into a friend today who flys as crew on longhaul (non striker) and she was really worried for her future, she is concerned that BA may try to impose newfleet T&C's on current crew using the 90 day option?
A year on and this dispute sits like an open wound on the bottom of this once good airline! So Sad for all concerned, but mainly the Customer!!!
Incidentally I bumped into a friend today who flys as crew on longhaul (non striker) and she was really worried for her future, she is concerned that BA may try to impose newfleet T&C's on current crew using the 90 day option?
A year on and this dispute sits like an open wound on the bottom of this once good airline! So Sad for all concerned, but mainly the Customer!!!
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@ Just an observer
The impression I got from reading the posts on the other thread was that it was not just the lady in question who had a problem with the "hat issue". My comments are not aimed at her alone, but at the many who cannot see why MF should be treated any differently to legacy crew.
The simple answer is they are different, or at least as I understand it, they are. Completely different T and C's, completely different career prospects and they will not be working alongside Legacy crew, but on flights which are totally MF crewed.
They are the first few, off many, many more to come. They are the future of BA cabin crew.
The Legacy crew are in this position purely and simply because of the intransigence of BASSA and CC89. MF would not even exist if it were not for them.
It seems to me that Legacy crew should be more worried about routes disappearing to MF and the about the possibility of BA invoking 90 days notice than whether or not MF get to wear hats...
Dual Ground, the lady who 'complained' about the hats has left BASSA, prior to the strike, she is not one of the obtuse who swallow the BASSA line. She does not deserve your comments.
The point she is making is that BA are making lots of positive gestures towards Mixed Fleet, and treating the existing CC who backed BA by working throughout the IA in the same way as they are the strikers, in fact in 5 cases worse, as 5 strikers have become CSMs on Mixed Fleet.
The hat is no more than a symbol of those positive gestures.
Mind you, it's not clear how BA can treat the non strikers any better than strikers without breaking the law, but just treating Mixed Fleet the same as all the rest would be a start I guess. I daresay they will in time, it's all new at the moment.
The point she is making is that BA are making lots of positive gestures towards Mixed Fleet, and treating the existing CC who backed BA by working throughout the IA in the same way as they are the strikers, in fact in 5 cases worse, as 5 strikers have become CSMs on Mixed Fleet.
The hat is no more than a symbol of those positive gestures.
Mind you, it's not clear how BA can treat the non strikers any better than strikers without breaking the law, but just treating Mixed Fleet the same as all the rest would be a start I guess. I daresay they will in time, it's all new at the moment.
The simple answer is they are different, or at least as I understand it, they are. Completely different T and C's, completely different career prospects and they will not be working alongside Legacy crew, but on flights which are totally MF crewed.
They are the first few, off many, many more to come. They are the future of BA cabin crew.
The Legacy crew are in this position purely and simply because of the intransigence of BASSA and CC89. MF would not even exist if it were not for them.
It seems to me that Legacy crew should be more worried about routes disappearing to MF and the about the possibility of BA invoking 90 days notice than whether or not MF get to wear hats...
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Dual ground,
You miss the whole point. I am not bothered about whether I wear the hat or not, what I am bothered about is, the fact that I have been a loyal employee and I did not strike, like 50% of other crew and am being made to feel like I am a second class citizen. Whether this is being done on purpose or not dose not alter how it makes many of us, who have been loyal, feel in our hearts.
Mixed Fleet is being brought in in a very uncaring way, to them and us current crew.
Can you imagine how horrid it is for these new young crew to be wearing a hat when hundreds of other crew in the Crew Report Centre are not wearing hats.I have received PM's from new crew saying they are unhappy wearing the hat and it makes them feel awkward. I don't think that's fair do you?
Hats or NO hats we should all look the same. It is going to be at least 10 years before Mixed Fleet is even 50 % of the workforce. Do you think it a sensible decision to have two different standards of uniform. Why not just have us all wear the same uniform and when it gets changed then bring in changes for everyone.
But of course deriding current crew that have done nothing more than work for their employer and cross a picket line, I expect is good sport for you. Not living through this hell like some of us are I don't expect you have any idea how dreadful this is for some of us.
Of course I am worried about other things but having not been in the union since last year I am powerless to do anything about it. I just think it surprising that BA want to alienate the 50% of crew that did back them by making us feel no longer valued. That's all.
You miss the whole point. I am not bothered about whether I wear the hat or not, what I am bothered about is, the fact that I have been a loyal employee and I did not strike, like 50% of other crew and am being made to feel like I am a second class citizen. Whether this is being done on purpose or not dose not alter how it makes many of us, who have been loyal, feel in our hearts.
Mixed Fleet is being brought in in a very uncaring way, to them and us current crew.
Can you imagine how horrid it is for these new young crew to be wearing a hat when hundreds of other crew in the Crew Report Centre are not wearing hats.I have received PM's from new crew saying they are unhappy wearing the hat and it makes them feel awkward. I don't think that's fair do you?
Hats or NO hats we should all look the same. It is going to be at least 10 years before Mixed Fleet is even 50 % of the workforce. Do you think it a sensible decision to have two different standards of uniform. Why not just have us all wear the same uniform and when it gets changed then bring in changes for everyone.
But of course deriding current crew that have done nothing more than work for their employer and cross a picket line, I expect is good sport for you. Not living through this hell like some of us are I don't expect you have any idea how dreadful this is for some of us.
Of course I am worried about other things but having not been in the union since last year I am powerless to do anything about it. I just think it surprising that BA want to alienate the 50% of crew that did back them by making us feel no longer valued. That's all.
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hats
could it be that the problem regarding the provision of hats to 'legacy crew' is one of size?
Betty Girl: we can cheer you on from the sidelines, but it is only you and those like you who can retrieve your union branch from those who have purloined it. they are not the Burmese junta - you have more weapons than you realise.
Betty Girl: we can cheer you on from the sidelines, but it is only you and those like you who can retrieve your union branch from those who have purloined it. they are not the Burmese junta - you have more weapons than you realise.
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I think if you had read the other thread closely you may realise that I am not in the union as I resigned last Christmas for obvious reasons.
I have joined the PCCC an organisation set up by some cabin crew and they are actively recruiting members. The PCCC is hopefully going to be able to be recognised as a union soon.
So I am doing as much as I can.
It looks to me that Bassa is imploding on it's own without any help from me.
I have joined the PCCC an organisation set up by some cabin crew and they are actively recruiting members. The PCCC is hopefully going to be able to be recognised as a union soon.
So I am doing as much as I can.
It looks to me that Bassa is imploding on it's own without any help from me.
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Bettygirl
If, in the last few weeks, BA had decreed that all crew were going to wear the same uniform as MF, how do you think that news would have been received? I suspect from your posts on the other forum that you personally, would welcome it. But I also suspect that certain factions would have been up in arms about it, declaring that this was yet another imposition from management, without union consultation.
"What, do away with our right to wear trousers, or a sweater? No way comrade"
So should BA just let MF start off with the same uniform standards as Legacy? Seems a bit counter-productive when they are trying to introduce what is basically a whole new product, to use business parlance.
As far as the average passenger is concerned, they probably won't notice the difference will they? Their crew are going to be one or the other, so all the crew will be dressed to either one standard or the other.
I'm afraid I really can't see how this devalues you, or makes you a second class citizen. Surely the people doing the same job as you, for a lot less money, are the second class citizens, if indeed anyone is.
Whilst I commend you for your decision to leave BASSA, and for working as normal during the strikes, how can BA legally treat you any differently to those who did strike?
Ultimately you enjoy the T and C's that you do because for years BA management have not stood up to BASSA. Those days are gone now, and I'm afraid your world is never going to be the same again.
You have a staff number don't you? Well I'm afraid as far as BA is concerned that's what you are, a number, a commodity, an overhead. That is, and as far as I know, has always been the reality of working for a large corporation.
As far as been powerless to do anything about the situation goes I really don't accept that. You and all other cabin crew members who are no longer, or have never been, BASSA members have had a year to join another union in sufficient numbers to gain recognition from BA.
Edited: Bettygirl, I have just seen your post where you mention that you have joined the PCCC. I hope that they step out of the shadows soon, so that you again have a voice which will be heard and will speak for you and not self serving union officials.
If, in the last few weeks, BA had decreed that all crew were going to wear the same uniform as MF, how do you think that news would have been received? I suspect from your posts on the other forum that you personally, would welcome it. But I also suspect that certain factions would have been up in arms about it, declaring that this was yet another imposition from management, without union consultation.
"What, do away with our right to wear trousers, or a sweater? No way comrade"
So should BA just let MF start off with the same uniform standards as Legacy? Seems a bit counter-productive when they are trying to introduce what is basically a whole new product, to use business parlance.
As far as the average passenger is concerned, they probably won't notice the difference will they? Their crew are going to be one or the other, so all the crew will be dressed to either one standard or the other.
I'm afraid I really can't see how this devalues you, or makes you a second class citizen. Surely the people doing the same job as you, for a lot less money, are the second class citizens, if indeed anyone is.
Whilst I commend you for your decision to leave BASSA, and for working as normal during the strikes, how can BA legally treat you any differently to those who did strike?
Ultimately you enjoy the T and C's that you do because for years BA management have not stood up to BASSA. Those days are gone now, and I'm afraid your world is never going to be the same again.
You have a staff number don't you? Well I'm afraid as far as BA is concerned that's what you are, a number, a commodity, an overhead. That is, and as far as I know, has always been the reality of working for a large corporation.
As far as been powerless to do anything about the situation goes I really don't accept that. You and all other cabin crew members who are no longer, or have never been, BASSA members have had a year to join another union in sufficient numbers to gain recognition from BA.
Edited: Bettygirl, I have just seen your post where you mention that you have joined the PCCC. I hope that they step out of the shadows soon, so that you again have a voice which will be heard and will speak for you and not self serving union officials.
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"I just think it surprising that BA want to alienate the 50% of crew that did back them by making us feel no longer valued. That's all."
Betty Girl - I don't think BA want to alienate the 50% of cabin crew that did back them and I think you, and others like you, are the only reason that a 90 day notice hasn't been issued.
Betty Girl - I don't think BA want to alienate the 50% of cabin crew that did back them and I think you, and others like you, are the only reason that a 90 day notice hasn't been issued.
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Betty Girl - I don't think BA want to alienate the 50% of cabin crew that did back them and I think you, and others like you, are the only reason that a 90 day notice hasn't been issued.
BA could have easily expedited a resolution to this well over 12 months ago, but such a resolution would probably have had a longer term impact on crew, far greater than the strikes (however difficult things may be at the moment).
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Thanks for all your posts.
I guess it will always be hard for those not actually experiencing all this, to understand what it is like at work for us crew.
Just so you know I don't feel like a number at work and I have a good relationship with my manager and also my manager's manager, if that makes sense. Both of them feel that Mixed Fleet having the hat is a mistake.
It is hard in a post to explain how it has made many of us feel and when I read my own posts back, I do understand why it seems trivial to many of you, but it is about how it is making us feel.
I did not think it would affect me but it did. I can't explain to you why but it has. What's worse is that it is singling out all the new crew too and it is hard enough when you are new without having to wear a hat that singles you out as new when hardly anyone else is wearing one.
I guess I wont be able to make you understand but it is just one more unnecessary thing added into this already awful mess.
I guess it will always be hard for those not actually experiencing all this, to understand what it is like at work for us crew.
Just so you know I don't feel like a number at work and I have a good relationship with my manager and also my manager's manager, if that makes sense. Both of them feel that Mixed Fleet having the hat is a mistake.
It is hard in a post to explain how it has made many of us feel and when I read my own posts back, I do understand why it seems trivial to many of you, but it is about how it is making us feel.
I did not think it would affect me but it did. I can't explain to you why but it has. What's worse is that it is singling out all the new crew too and it is hard enough when you are new without having to wear a hat that singles you out as new when hardly anyone else is wearing one.
I guess I wont be able to make you understand but it is just one more unnecessary thing added into this already awful mess.
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Hats
Betty Girl
You seem to be a genuine and loyal employee who is clearly concerned about the ongoing dispute, but please have a sense of perspective. The issue of hats is hardly an area for serious debate at a time when BASSA are posturing for another strike ballot.
A vote in favour would be disastrous for people like you if BA decide to finally play hardball and give 90day notice of new contracts on a take it or leave it basis.
They would not be allowed to differentiate between the good, loyal group of staff and the loony militants. That is something you should be more concerned about.
On a human level, I have enormous sympathy with your situation and I hope PCCC will become a reality and a positive influence within BA. Good luck.
You seem to be a genuine and loyal employee who is clearly concerned about the ongoing dispute, but please have a sense of perspective. The issue of hats is hardly an area for serious debate at a time when BASSA are posturing for another strike ballot.
A vote in favour would be disastrous for people like you if BA decide to finally play hardball and give 90day notice of new contracts on a take it or leave it basis.
They would not be allowed to differentiate between the good, loyal group of staff and the loony militants. That is something you should be more concerned about.
On a human level, I have enormous sympathy with your situation and I hope PCCC will become a reality and a positive influence within BA. Good luck.
Paxing All Over The World
Thanks Betty girl, that's very helpful - and I DO mean that. There is only one reason I am surprised at the addition of a hat: COST. Why increase the cost of uniform in a modern world where CC hats vanished so long ago I can't remember when I last saw one.
As yet, I have not seen the new hat but I'll bet it doesn't add much to the ensemble because one of the long standing joke in the airline world is that female CC hats have ALWAYS looked ridiculous.
These will have been designed and made and then need to replaced when lost or damaged. VERY silly and it sounds like a complete waste of money even BEFORE the mgmt learn that they can upset staff in a whole brand new way.
As yet, I have not seen the new hat but I'll bet it doesn't add much to the ensemble because one of the long standing joke in the airline world is that female CC hats have ALWAYS looked ridiculous.
These will have been designed and made and then need to replaced when lost or damaged. VERY silly and it sounds like a complete waste of money even BEFORE the mgmt learn that they can upset staff in a whole brand new way.
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Thanks Paxboy,
It is the one used for VIP flights and by the promotional teams so it is not actually new.
You can see it if you google ' British Airways hat ' and you also can see the old one that we used to wear in the early 90's.
Thanks.
It is the one used for VIP flights and by the promotional teams so it is not actually new.
You can see it if you google ' British Airways hat ' and you also can see the old one that we used to wear in the early 90's.
Thanks.
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A vote in favour (of a strike) would be disastrous for people like you if BA decide to finally play hardball and give 90day notice of new contracts on a take it or leave it basis.
They would not be allowed to differentiate between the good, loyal group of staff and the loony militants. That is something you should be more concerned about.
They would not be allowed to differentiate between the good, loyal group of staff and the loony militants. That is something you should be more concerned about.