BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
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I have always respected your point of view, and the way in which you expressed it.
I am now retired, but when I was a Captain, I always sought the opinions of all my senior crew before committing to a course of action. The whole team needs to be involved for the best result.
Of course, it is not always possible, such as when I had an engine failure (A330) at top of descent. A busy twenty minutes, but, having been briefed in the cockpit, our Chief Purser handled it superbly. After landing, the riding engineer came to the cockpit to announce that #1 reverser had not deployed.
Our Chief Purser came to the cockpit with Champagne.
How things have changed
I have always respected your point of view, and the way in which you expressed it.
I am now retired, but when I was a Captain, I always sought the opinions of all my senior crew before committing to a course of action. The whole team needs to be involved for the best result.
Of course, it is not always possible, such as when I had an engine failure (A330) at top of descent. A busy twenty minutes, but, having been briefed in the cockpit, our Chief Purser handled it superbly. After landing, the riding engineer came to the cockpit to announce that #1 reverser had not deployed.
Our Chief Purser came to the cockpit with Champagne.
How things have changed
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'Unite' survey on bullying
i wonder who dreamed this up?
17% response rate (not sure how that compares) so when we read that circa 50% of respondents have been bullied or have witnessed bullying we are actually talking of around 8% of those invited to respond. it is reasonable to assume that the more sensitive are most likely to both respond and to perceive bullying. also, there is a real risk that these two categories overlap thus bigging-up the positive response.
the categories of bullying are also open to interpretation. they include (unfair) criticism, (over) monitoring and overruling for example. i think we could all answer 'yes' to that over a working life time!
interestingly it also includes 'memory loss'! so, how do they know?
as a postscipt, someone should have looked more closely at this before including the phrase 'the high level of union density'!
17% response rate (not sure how that compares) so when we read that circa 50% of respondents have been bullied or have witnessed bullying we are actually talking of around 8% of those invited to respond. it is reasonable to assume that the more sensitive are most likely to both respond and to perceive bullying. also, there is a real risk that these two categories overlap thus bigging-up the positive response.
the categories of bullying are also open to interpretation. they include (unfair) criticism, (over) monitoring and overruling for example. i think we could all answer 'yes' to that over a working life time!
interestingly it also includes 'memory loss'! so, how do they know?
as a postscipt, someone should have looked more closely at this before including the phrase 'the high level of union density'!
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Unite emailed 11,055 employees of the airline in late November/early December 2010
I notice that some employees that they e-mailed were not members of Unite. _So what is the current membership of Unite?
Reference:-_link
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So basically, it was a self-selecting survey with a very low response rate. It's hardly surprising that a minority of crew will seize any opportunity to criticise the company.
If BASSA and Unite were genuinely concerned about bullying they would have used a respected independent research company which would have selected respondents at random and ensured questions were properly drafted.
This seems like a rather desperate attempt to breathe life into a flagging dispute.
The self-pitying and sanctimonious bleating by some about the legal right to strike is also tiresome. BA also has the right to protect its business from disruption and run it effectively in the way it chooses. There is also the question of proportionality.
If BASSA and Unite were genuinely concerned about bullying they would have used a respected independent research company which would have selected respondents at random and ensured questions were properly drafted.
This seems like a rather desperate attempt to breathe life into a flagging dispute.
The self-pitying and sanctimonious bleating by some about the legal right to strike is also tiresome. BA also has the right to protect its business from disruption and run it effectively in the way it chooses. There is also the question of proportionality.
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Duncan's latest rambling thoughts are on the BALPA BA forum, I'm sure they will appear here shortly!
Nothing unexpected - KTF, we will win, applause from the myopic, all praise McClunky.
Nothing unexpected - KTF, we will win, applause from the myopic, all praise McClunky.
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Just for you
Just a quick report back from your ever-loving Branch Secretary on today's
meeting at Kempton. Incidentally someone I know who still talks to BA has
been told by them that they think I am completely mad, and I would hate to
convince them otherwise, so forgive my rambles!!
Firstly can I say that I felt that today was one of the best meetings we
have ever had. Not only was it brilliantly attended but everyone there
generated a real positive vibe. Of course, the tone was set by a really
rousing speech by the new General Secretary, Len McCluskey who truly
caught the mood and resolved a lot of the outstanding issues. More of that
later but first he told the meeting how this dispute was like no other he
had experienced, and how, in his opinion, Walsh has never wanted peace.
"Never mind the BA brand" he said, "this is all about the Willie Walsh
brand - the actions of a mad man". That predictably drew a large roar of
agreement as did the sight of Nicky Marcus on the top table wearing the
now infamous Willie Walsh Y fronts.
Len then undertook to be 100% hands on and pledged to be totally behind
getting the deal or outcome the membership wanted.
He then said he would authorise the Unite legal dept to co-operate with
Crew Defence lawyers! That too earned a loud cheer but not as loud at the
cheer that went up when he said he had already written to the General
Secretary of BALPA to ask that BALPA members immediately refrain from
strike breaking, adding that if it continued, he would be requesting
their expulsion from the TUC. Kempton Park roof nearly blew off and the
statue of Desert Orchid even joined in the ovation. If only those
misguided pilots could have heard the commotion and the anger, perhaps
some of them might have second thoughts.
There were some questions from the floor surrounding the legal issues -
which Len addressed - but he said the industrial route was the one more
likely to succeed due to the current industrial laws of the land being
heavily biased in favour of the employer these days. However all legal
steps are judged on their merit and the ones that have already been lodged
will continue until the membership agree otherwise. It was not therefore
wise to rely on the courts settling this dispute.
Len also admitted that Unite PR had not been slick enough and there needed
to be a more high profile strategy and improvements made. Understandably
there was not much argument against this.
Following another question from the floor Len pledged in future reps would
be included in talks with the company.
Len was asked whether Willie Walsh moving upstairs would mean a more
conciliatory attitude from BA. Len said he hoped so but Walsh has already
signalled an intention to remain involved in the dispute so we will have
to wait and see but, whatever, there will have to a negotiated settlement
and BA have to accept this. It is now evident all along that Walsh has
only ever been interested in bringing BASSA to its knees and even early on
a deal everyone could have lived with, was there but Walsh chose to move
the goalposts.
Len wound up by saying he was amazed at how strong we all were and how
impressed he is with the resolve and unity. He asked that the members
"continue to believe in themselves and in their committee" and that
"justice will prevail". He understood the nature of the job and how it is
hard to present a unified face but somehow we had done just that.
Speaking personally now I thought his presence today was incredibly
uplifting and reassuring and that the words he spoke are overdue but
nevertheless very welcome. I think most at the meeting agreed. Shubha
(Unite Legal) then gave an update to where we are with all the legal cases
so far which again many told me afterwards was very helpful. It is good
that we had someone there from Unite Legal dept in person as they do have
the final word and I think Shubha will come away today suitably impressed
not only by the passion and determination, but also the intelligence of
the questions.
After Len left the BASSA committee answered questions many of which
centred around BA doing away with all our agreements and what to do if
faced with BA trying to force you to break an agreement. It was stressed
this is an individual decision but a CSD present nearly brought the house
down when she said she would be sticking to her agreement no matter what
and would expect her crew to "stick" by her. Everyone agreed we were in
uncharted waters and BA were circling like dishonourable sharks but at the
end of the day "an agreement is an agreement".
An ex-crew member then addressed the meeting giving details of an
alternate staff travel scheme he had initiated to help with those who no
longer have BA staff travel rights. There is a website and details will be
posted.
The organisers of Santas crew then spoke, thanking all those who had
donated and announcing that the appeal would keep going. Both speakers
were warmly applauded.
Finally Sean Beatty and Lizanne Malone asked for the Branches' approval to
be nominated for the forthcoming GEC elections. Sean said it was
imperative a team be elected to give Len full support and when the time
came the 6 people to vote for would be Beatty, Malone, Parsons, Holmes,
Murphy and Kwasi. (We will be posting an article on this nearer the time).
So all in all a very good meeting. Everyone I spoke to enthused about it
and there really was an incredible atmosphere of togetherness today.
Finally Nicky Marcus said a few words of thanks and also how proud she was
to represent you all. She was quite rightly given a standing ovation and
it was all very emotional, to be frank. When you stand shoulder to
shoulder at events like this there is an overwhelming sense of doing
what's right and also a great feeling of togetherness. We might all be
from very varied backgrounds etc but today over a thousand people spoke as
one and were united by a determination to resist the biggest bully in BA
history to the end - whatever that takes!
Now before BA have me sectioned I will end by saying thanks to all those
who turned up and a big thank you to those who continue to keep the faith.
Forgive the grammar in this - it has been written after a long day but I
want to post it asap for all those down route. Safe flying. Duncan
meeting at Kempton. Incidentally someone I know who still talks to BA has
been told by them that they think I am completely mad, and I would hate to
convince them otherwise, so forgive my rambles!!
Firstly can I say that I felt that today was one of the best meetings we
have ever had. Not only was it brilliantly attended but everyone there
generated a real positive vibe. Of course, the tone was set by a really
rousing speech by the new General Secretary, Len McCluskey who truly
caught the mood and resolved a lot of the outstanding issues. More of that
later but first he told the meeting how this dispute was like no other he
had experienced, and how, in his opinion, Walsh has never wanted peace.
"Never mind the BA brand" he said, "this is all about the Willie Walsh
brand - the actions of a mad man". That predictably drew a large roar of
agreement as did the sight of Nicky Marcus on the top table wearing the
now infamous Willie Walsh Y fronts.
Len then undertook to be 100% hands on and pledged to be totally behind
getting the deal or outcome the membership wanted.
He then said he would authorise the Unite legal dept to co-operate with
Crew Defence lawyers! That too earned a loud cheer but not as loud at the
cheer that went up when he said he had already written to the General
Secretary of BALPA to ask that BALPA members immediately refrain from
strike breaking, adding that if it continued, he would be requesting
their expulsion from the TUC. Kempton Park roof nearly blew off and the
statue of Desert Orchid even joined in the ovation. If only those
misguided pilots could have heard the commotion and the anger, perhaps
some of them might have second thoughts.
There were some questions from the floor surrounding the legal issues -
which Len addressed - but he said the industrial route was the one more
likely to succeed due to the current industrial laws of the land being
heavily biased in favour of the employer these days. However all legal
steps are judged on their merit and the ones that have already been lodged
will continue until the membership agree otherwise. It was not therefore
wise to rely on the courts settling this dispute.
Len also admitted that Unite PR had not been slick enough and there needed
to be a more high profile strategy and improvements made. Understandably
there was not much argument against this.
Following another question from the floor Len pledged in future reps would
be included in talks with the company.
Len was asked whether Willie Walsh moving upstairs would mean a more
conciliatory attitude from BA. Len said he hoped so but Walsh has already
signalled an intention to remain involved in the dispute so we will have
to wait and see but, whatever, there will have to a negotiated settlement
and BA have to accept this. It is now evident all along that Walsh has
only ever been interested in bringing BASSA to its knees and even early on
a deal everyone could have lived with, was there but Walsh chose to move
the goalposts.
Len wound up by saying he was amazed at how strong we all were and how
impressed he is with the resolve and unity. He asked that the members
"continue to believe in themselves and in their committee" and that
"justice will prevail". He understood the nature of the job and how it is
hard to present a unified face but somehow we had done just that.
Speaking personally now I thought his presence today was incredibly
uplifting and reassuring and that the words he spoke are overdue but
nevertheless very welcome. I think most at the meeting agreed. Shubha
(Unite Legal) then gave an update to where we are with all the legal cases
so far which again many told me afterwards was very helpful. It is good
that we had someone there from Unite Legal dept in person as they do have
the final word and I think Shubha will come away today suitably impressed
not only by the passion and determination, but also the intelligence of
the questions.
After Len left the BASSA committee answered questions many of which
centred around BA doing away with all our agreements and what to do if
faced with BA trying to force you to break an agreement. It was stressed
this is an individual decision but a CSD present nearly brought the house
down when she said she would be sticking to her agreement no matter what
and would expect her crew to "stick" by her. Everyone agreed we were in
uncharted waters and BA were circling like dishonourable sharks but at the
end of the day "an agreement is an agreement".
An ex-crew member then addressed the meeting giving details of an
alternate staff travel scheme he had initiated to help with those who no
longer have BA staff travel rights. There is a website and details will be
posted.
The organisers of Santas crew then spoke, thanking all those who had
donated and announcing that the appeal would keep going. Both speakers
were warmly applauded.
Finally Sean Beatty and Lizanne Malone asked for the Branches' approval to
be nominated for the forthcoming GEC elections. Sean said it was
imperative a team be elected to give Len full support and when the time
came the 6 people to vote for would be Beatty, Malone, Parsons, Holmes,
Murphy and Kwasi. (We will be posting an article on this nearer the time).
So all in all a very good meeting. Everyone I spoke to enthused about it
and there really was an incredible atmosphere of togetherness today.
Finally Nicky Marcus said a few words of thanks and also how proud she was
to represent you all. She was quite rightly given a standing ovation and
it was all very emotional, to be frank. When you stand shoulder to
shoulder at events like this there is an overwhelming sense of doing
what's right and also a great feeling of togetherness. We might all be
from very varied backgrounds etc but today over a thousand people spoke as
one and were united by a determination to resist the biggest bully in BA
history to the end - whatever that takes!
Now before BA have me sectioned I will end by saying thanks to all those
who turned up and a big thank you to those who continue to keep the faith.
Forgive the grammar in this - it has been written after a long day but I
want to post it asap for all those down route. Safe flying. Duncan
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I think it might be for those that have been suspended or sacked but also die hard union members are not using their staff travel, although it has been partially restored, as they feel by using it they would be accepting that is was alright to have their free tickets and seniority for staff travel removed.
They believe it could jeopardize any future court case if they accept it back and use it without it being restored completely.
They believe it could jeopardize any future court case if they accept it back and use it without it being restored completely.
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Duncan said
I think there were some interesting statements in Duncan’s recent missive.
While reporting on Red Len’s talk Duncan said the following “he said the industrial route was the one more likely to succeed due to the current industrial laws of the land being heavily biased in favour of the employer these days……. It was not therefore wise to rely on the courts settling this dispute.” Now, everybody recognizes what a complete failure the last IA was and how the planned IA will be even less successful, and Red Len says the courts will likely be even less of a success than IA. Assuming most CC can comprehend what they read this should provide additional incentive not to strike regardless of how they vote. Some will of course relish the opportunity to fall on their sword.
Duncan also said “today over a thousand people spoke as one.” Given the nature of past exaggerations does anyone have a guess as to how many actually attended?
While reporting on Red Len’s talk Duncan said the following “he said the industrial route was the one more likely to succeed due to the current industrial laws of the land being heavily biased in favour of the employer these days……. It was not therefore wise to rely on the courts settling this dispute.” Now, everybody recognizes what a complete failure the last IA was and how the planned IA will be even less successful, and Red Len says the courts will likely be even less of a success than IA. Assuming most CC can comprehend what they read this should provide additional incentive not to strike regardless of how they vote. Some will of course relish the opportunity to fall on their sword.
Duncan also said “today over a thousand people spoke as one.” Given the nature of past exaggerations does anyone have a guess as to how many actually attended?
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Why the need for a scheme for those who don't have staff travel rights? Hasn't it been restored?
Junior trash
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Sort of. It was in the offer (subject to seniority constraints) that the membership were not allowed to vote on by the union. But as they weren't, it wasn't.
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Interesting choice of wording by Comrade McCluskey, assuming that Comrade Holley has reported it correctly.
'...the industrial route was the one more likely to succeed due to the current industrial laws of the land being heavily biased in favour of the employer these days……. It was not therefore wise to rely on the courts settling this dispute.'
So does this mean that our Len wants to lead his troops into strike action or not ? My initial reading of this was that he thought that strike action would be more successful than chasing BA through the courts for the restoration of staff travel etc. A rerun of the Charge of the Light Brigade.
Then I had a think and remembered that the ballot paper covered industrial action as well as action short of strike. So is Len reckoning to get this sorted by calling a work to rule. It would have the benefit of being a token which might attract a larger following than strike action. It would prevent BA from withdrawing the offer from the table and it would save the union the difficulty of trying to defend in court what might be considered a continuation of an existing dispute and hence without protection. The cynic in me wondered if anyone would notice a cabin crew work to rule.
Re: over a thousand turned up at Kempton. We've done this chestnut to death. The capacity figures for Kempton Park meeting rooms are in the public domain. I can't see the racecourse making exceptions for anyone, least of all BASSA. What DH omits to specify are the number of attendees who were either BASSA personnel or ex-cabin crew having been dismissed. I trust the SWP weren't in attendance either. I did think that 1,000 people must represent about 20% of the membership these days. Still, it's better than the CC89 meeting which probably took place in a hotel bedroom and looked empty at that.
'...the industrial route was the one more likely to succeed due to the current industrial laws of the land being heavily biased in favour of the employer these days……. It was not therefore wise to rely on the courts settling this dispute.'
So does this mean that our Len wants to lead his troops into strike action or not ? My initial reading of this was that he thought that strike action would be more successful than chasing BA through the courts for the restoration of staff travel etc. A rerun of the Charge of the Light Brigade.
Then I had a think and remembered that the ballot paper covered industrial action as well as action short of strike. So is Len reckoning to get this sorted by calling a work to rule. It would have the benefit of being a token which might attract a larger following than strike action. It would prevent BA from withdrawing the offer from the table and it would save the union the difficulty of trying to defend in court what might be considered a continuation of an existing dispute and hence without protection. The cynic in me wondered if anyone would notice a cabin crew work to rule.
Re: over a thousand turned up at Kempton. We've done this chestnut to death. The capacity figures for Kempton Park meeting rooms are in the public domain. I can't see the racecourse making exceptions for anyone, least of all BASSA. What DH omits to specify are the number of attendees who were either BASSA personnel or ex-cabin crew having been dismissed. I trust the SWP weren't in attendance either. I did think that 1,000 people must represent about 20% of the membership these days. Still, it's better than the CC89 meeting which probably took place in a hotel bedroom and looked empty at that.
A history of the Roman Catholic church
Re-reading some of this thread reminds me of the little history that I've read about.
In Western Europe, up to about 1450, the individual was not really noticed. Individuals did not have self-esteem or self-worth. Individuals were not even "cogs" in the machine. If you were not at least a knight, (a CSD) you did not count.
Some thinking from about 1450 allowed the idea that individuals might have value and self-worth.
This notion of an individual that had some value continued to grow with the various bits of Protestantism. Remember that the first Protestants were not outside the Catholic church - they were firmly inside and seeking to reform it.
The idea that individuals might relate personally to God, and not via the Church and its corrupt priests was liberating for many. Individuals - if they could read - were beginning to read the Bible, and not just listen to bassa.
Then, from about 1550 onwards, the formal Church responded. It set up a counter-reformation. This counter-reformation insisted that anyone who read the Bible was a sinner. Anyone who related personally to God was a sinner.
So, I suspect that I do not have to spell it out. DH is the pope. The Heritage striking CSDs are the Priests, and if you do not do what you are told, you will be helped to think right by the bassa Inquisition.
In Western Europe, up to about 1450, the individual was not really noticed. Individuals did not have self-esteem or self-worth. Individuals were not even "cogs" in the machine. If you were not at least a knight, (a CSD) you did not count.
Some thinking from about 1450 allowed the idea that individuals might have value and self-worth.
This notion of an individual that had some value continued to grow with the various bits of Protestantism. Remember that the first Protestants were not outside the Catholic church - they were firmly inside and seeking to reform it.
The idea that individuals might relate personally to God, and not via the Church and its corrupt priests was liberating for many. Individuals - if they could read - were beginning to read the Bible, and not just listen to bassa.
Then, from about 1550 onwards, the formal Church responded. It set up a counter-reformation. This counter-reformation insisted that anyone who read the Bible was a sinner. Anyone who related personally to God was a sinner.
So, I suspect that I do not have to spell it out. DH is the pope. The Heritage striking CSDs are the Priests, and if you do not do what you are told, you will be helped to think right by the bassa Inquisition.
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Nice to see that BALPA has got a special place in Looney Lens heart. Especially as a large amount of the other VCC were from various sub branches of Unite!
Bravely follow Len my darlings, just look, saliently, at the fantastic 'dragging heels/obstinate refusal to change' approach to which he came to fame in Liverpool and the rapid dash to the job centre that he led his brave comrades when the docks industry collapsed. Except for him of course as Union firebrand fame beckoned. Let everyone else risk their jobs, Len is sorted for life on the backs of the membership thanks very much.
Well done Len, Derek Hatton must be proud.
Bravely follow Len my darlings, just look, saliently, at the fantastic 'dragging heels/obstinate refusal to change' approach to which he came to fame in Liverpool and the rapid dash to the job centre that he led his brave comrades when the docks industry collapsed. Except for him of course as Union firebrand fame beckoned. Let everyone else risk their jobs, Len is sorted for life on the backs of the membership thanks very much.
Well done Len, Derek Hatton must be proud.
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Hotel Mode
Sort of. It was in the offer (subject to seniority constraints) that the membership were not allowed to vote on by the union. But as they weren't, it wasn't.
That's incorrect. Staff travel was restored to all unconditionally with a DoJ of Oct 2010.
Do I take it that everyone now has ST back (albeit with a recent DoJ)? If this is the case, why are they considering strike action?