BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III

[Hotel Mode]

I don't think there will be any real 'Victor' from any of this...Both sides failed miserably.

If you had told a BASSA member this time last year that by now the following would have happened:

1/2 Crewmembers off every long haul flight
1-3 Crewmembers off every short haul flight
2 Year pay freeze
New fleet not only started but growing rapidly
BA's cost savings target not only made but exceeded
1 night off after long range diversions
BASSA no longer remotely involved in day to day ops
Staff travel lost for 4 months
Staff travel seniority lost
BASSA no longer the effective negotiating body for cabin crew
4000 other staff trained to take their place any time they threaten a strike
60% of their colleagues ignoring BASSAs strike call
BASSA totally neutered

They would have had absolute apoplexy. Its their worst case scenario plus a whole load more.

BA will make back the strike losses in savings that they wouldnt otherwise have achieved within 18 months. Its hard to see how theres any doubt about a victor here.

[call100]

Richard228
I respect your opinion but I don't think that BA are the shining light you believe. BASSA have done a lot of harm to the TU movement. I don't agree with the way this bitter battle has/is being fought by either side. I don't see any 'Victories' to anyone except for the lawyers....


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree...

[Richard228]

call100

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree...

although I do agree with you on one thing... yes the lawyers do always seem to win

[Juan Tugoh]

Call100

BASSA have done a lot of harm to the TU movement. I don't agree with the way this bitter battle has/is being fought by either side. I don't see any 'Victories' to anyone except for the lawyers....

I think you are partly right, this dispute could have been handled more adroitly, however, as Hotel Mode listed:

1/2 Crewmembers off every long haul flight
1-3 Crewmembers off every short haul flight
2 Year pay freeze
New fleet not only started but growing rapidly
BA's cost savings target not only made but exceeded
1 night off after long range diversions
BASSA no longer remotely involved in day to day ops
Staff travel lost for 4 months
Staff travel seniority lost
BASSA no longer the effective negotiating body for cabin crew
4000 other staff trained to take their place any time they threaten a strike
60% of their colleagues ignoring BASSAs strike call
BASSA totally neutered

I think that there have been some clear victories. Ultimately the conduct of the campaign is not as important as the outcome. There has been a clear outcome here, not one that BASSA would have wanted or hoped for.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by Mariner9

Sadly, I don't share your optimism. The Miss M's of this world appear able to whip the majority of their fellow CC's interested enough to vote into a sense of outrage at will.

BASSA want to strike. Let them. I think most on here (perhaps even Litebulbs?) would agree that BA would have to take decisive action should it come to that.

I don't think BASSA want to strike, but they feel that it is required, because so much focus is on the dismissed employees, as it should be.

No doubt some of the dismissed would have been dismissed even if Bob Crowe had managed to sneak onto the management side of the disciplinary process. If BA can accept that the arbitration process allows the independent reviewer to reinstate dismissed employees without question, based on all the facts presented, then that could be a solution.

But as I see it, the negotiations are complete and a free vote (no public BASSA reps spin so far) will take place. If the vote is for rejection, then enough due process has been followed to make the dismissals fair in my mind and the new contract will not be the one that the vote will be about.

[AV Flyer]

From DH, on that other thread:
Quote:
Your ballot, when it arrives will also contain a detailed analysis of the document, to help you to make up your mind.

If you wish to accept it the dispute will end on that basis, if you reject it, the union will issue an immediate ballot for strike action."


It will be interesting to see if DH (BASSA) can continue to show his reluctant support for the ballot and not break out with some negative and misleading comments or "spin" thus revealing his true feelings and potentially influencing BASSA members into rejecting the offer. This is precisely why BA have required UNITE & BASSA to recommend the offer.

It could be argued that DH has already overstepped his remit in stating that "if you reject it, the union will issue an immediate ballot for strike action" which from my understanding is not up to him to say and could thus be considered as his first non-supportive and misleading remark as it is not at all certain that the union will automatically and immediately issue a strike ballot in the event of rejection.

Woodley needs to reign Holley in before he says one thing too many and BA cry 'foul' and pull their offer.

[Ancient Observer]

Volunteers required...............

In the proposals, it says that BA needs a complete review of its IR framework.
Quote
Both parties are jointly committed to a comprehensive review of industrial relations between BA and Unite-representing cabin crew to be undertaken by a mutually acceptable third party supported by Acas with a view to them making recommendations that both parties will accept as binding

I would volunteer to take part in this, with Diplome as Chair and Litebulbs as the "TU side".

However, I suspect that one of the usual suspects such as John Purcell of Bath Uni. will get the role.
(John - can I be Secretary of the review, please, with Fred Higgs representing the TU side??)

[Diplome]

Ancient Observer:

As Chair I would simply move the meeting to after 6 p.m., to be held at my favorite sushi restaurant and copious amounts of sake would be required.

...and if anyone texts from the table they have to pick up the check

[Neptunus Rex]

Diplome,

As always, a breath of fresh air.

[Diplome]

Now Neptunus Rex...you don't have to go that far to get an invitation.

You can attend as a customer/passenger representative. Including the concerns of how decisions impact the customer/passenger would be groundbreaking indeed.

[Granary]

Holley says:

If you wish to accept it the dispute will end on that basis, if you reject it, the union will issue an immediate ballot for strike action."

Just keep him away from the machine wot does.

The fact is the CC have a chance to move on and it is very much in their interest now to accept that. Just think! During the next 3 years living a normal life will be a big test for all of us. To even think that BASSA would call for another strike is too absurd to even give it thought. But Holley would do it for one person HIMSELF. That is who you are dealing with and he cannot any longer represent you at BA. Think about it - its your life and livelihood he is messing with.

[notlangley]

The vote that is to take place is arguably the most important vote that cc have ever participated in._ The result of the voting will be determined by the dvads group._ This group is the largest faction of British Airways cabin crew._ I tend to the view that none (or nearly none) of the dvads group read this thread, or the "other" thread or the flyertalk thread or the BASSA thread or the uniteba thread or the PCCC thread._ Therefore nothing that is posted on any of these threads will influence the vote.

What follows from this bit of making-it-up-as-I-go-along is that probably none of the dvads group contribute to any of these threads._ Therefore when the vote comes, the result will be a complete surprise to all of us who read any of these threads.

Oh by the way dvads means "didn’t vote and didn’t strike"._ dvads are the only ones who are free of guilt - they didn’t do anything, so they couldn’t have done anything wrong.

[AV Flyer]

baggersup:

Agree completely. This is in one step beyond "window blinds gate" and Simpson tweeting from the confidential ACAS negotiations.

If I were BA at this sensitive 'discovery' stage in the negotiations (where BASSA members are learning and questioning what the offer is about) I would expect a written retraction from UNITE, to the extent that they can still put the genie back in the bottle, followed by a statement that Holley has been dismissed.

The more I think about it the more serious I believe this to be. BA has negotiated and surrendered a lot of ground here including returning ST in good faith and reached agreement with UNITE to support the offer to their members and to improve the professionalism of their negotiating techniques moving forwards. This is nothing short of a bad faith slap in the face and thumbing of his nose at BA by Holley.

[AlpineSkier]

@ AV

Holley dismissed ? From what ?

Unless he has been hired by Unite - and this seems to be unknown - they can't sack him from his current BASSA role as i understand it.

Presumably BASSA elections will soon be a much-followed topic.

[AV Flyer]

AS:

..... dismissed, removed, gagged, injuncted, derecognised, etc., what ever UNITE has in its legal power to assure BA it is able to do - I guess.

[LD12986]

The vote that is to take place is arguably the most important vote that cc have ever participated in.

Indeed it is. However, cabin crew previously had the chance to vote on an offer that is barely any different to this offer and not even 50% of them bothered to vote. That may have been in part because of the relatively short two week ballot period. However, that is still a low turn out.

With staff travel having been restored, and four months passing since the end of the strikes with absolutely nothing achieved by Unite, things may have changed now. But the greatest danger is this offer being rejected because the militant minority all go out and vote no, and the moderate/disinterested majority simply don't bother either way.

[Litebulbs]

Baggers

Now, that is something to think about, if you believe what has been preached on both threads, that each deal would get worse.

[Litebulbs]

Do you think that if the vote comes back as a no, then the contract enforced utilising the SOSR defence will be this current offer, if the ballot turnout is low?

edit - if that is the course of action that BA choose....

[Colonel White]

Baggers and others.

My understanding is that if the Unite membership accept this deal, it will be applied to all staff. The caveat is those non-union staff who signed the earlier offer in June. If the latest deal is better than the deal they signed, they get the new deal. If the deal they signed is better, they can stay on that. All the staff who either didn't sign the June deal or left the union after the deadline will get the deal on offer assuming that the Unite members accept it.

If the Unite members reject the deal, BA may then offer it to the now non-union members who didn't sign the previous deal, but it is not guaranteed.

[west lakes]

I find it curious that the changes to the disruption agreement haven't been mentioned.

This is one change to that accepted by non-union staff. I can't help but think that this could be awkward as those that had already signed could be entitled to more time off than those that didn't!