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Ryanair-Questions, comments, bouquets & brickbats (Merged) II

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Ryanair-Questions, comments, bouquets & brickbats (Merged) II

Old 19th Jan 2011, 16:53
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Netherlands
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I booked my family with Ryan Air. I used my wife's name Wiesje - it's a common short form of Willemiena, same as Tony in place of Anthony, or Mike in place of Micheal.

The check-in service insisted this was a passenger change and charged Euro 125.00.

Incidently, this is the highest charge in the industry by a large margin.

I appealed to Ryan Air and after a long time received a standard form reply directing myself to their Terms and Conditions - without stating which clause they were invoking. A second appeal received the same response.

I was left feeling decidledy "ripped-off".

A better relationship with their passengers may even produce more business for Ryan Air.
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Old 19th Jan 2011, 17:00
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ireland
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Sorry, but no sympathy here (and I do not work for FR). Common sense says you input into the system when booking the exact details on your passport / ID / credit card. Then, no possibility for confusion.

Simples.

MD

Last edited by MidlandDeltic; 19th Jan 2011 at 17:02. Reason: Spelling
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Old 19th Jan 2011, 17:24
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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The check-in service insisted this was a passenger change and charged Euro 125.00.
For Deltic:

I cannot agree with your overlooking that there was NOT in fact a passenger change. The passenger remained is the same, that one uses a diminuitive form of same passenger's name is hardly grounds to steal or extort 120 euro from anyone, no less a customer.

Unethical business practice.
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Old 19th Jan 2011, 17:34
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: West Midlands
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Not usually one to stick up for FR but it does clearly state that the name on the boarding pass must match that on the passport. However, the amount charged for a change of name is close to extortion. Perhaps a nominal fee of 10-30 euros would suffice?
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Old 19th Jan 2011, 17:48
  #105 (permalink)  
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An interesting little case mentioned in today's local German paper. A couple very recently flying from Germany to Spain checked in at the point of origin where the Ryanair staff accidently tore the "boarding card" for the return leg in half, handed it back to passengers, said "it will be OK".

Two weeks later at Girona they tried to check in for their return to Germany. Ryanair refused to accept the two pieces as one "boarding card" and insisted on printing out a new one - for 40, more than the flight cost.

They protested they had the original card so should not have to pay again: and were told to write to Ryanair HQ in English. Usual FR prevarication and eventually they gave up trying to get their 40 back.

Disclaimer: we used to fly with FR a lot and liked their cheap prices. However now we have the TGV from Spain to London we take that. Costlier but far more luxurious.
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Old 19th Jan 2011, 19:32
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany
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Cool

Hi,

Who does this spanish judge thinks she is? It's a contract. That guy ticked the box. Yo no lo entiendo.
Regard to the law .. seems it's a illegal contract so for the spanish judge this contract can't be used to force the customer to paid 40 Euros fee .....
Entiendo ?
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Old 19th Jan 2011, 20:04
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cairo
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I think that in the UK this would come under the unfair contract terms law, which basically says (I am not a lawyer) that if it ain't fair it ain't legal.

Let them levy a charge by all means - but the charge has to be proportionate to the cost incurred.
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Old 19th Jan 2011, 20:52
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: scotland
Posts: 169
Sorry, but no sympathy here (and I do not work for FR). Common sense says you input into the system when booking the exact details on your passport / ID / credit card. Then, no possibility for confusion.

Simples.


Maybe you should try booking for a group of people, some of whom have a variety of ID in more than one name. You would quickly find that the whole business becomes extraordinarily time consuming when all you really want is 12 seats.
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Old 19th Jan 2011, 21:21
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: France
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Maybe you should try booking for a group of people, some of whom have a variety of ID in more than one name. You would quickly find that the whole business becomes extraordinarily time consuming when all you really want is 12 seats.
And the correct solution to that situation is to delegate the task to another member of your group! Failing that, ask them for their passports before booking and note down the vital information such as names, date of birth, passport date and place of issue and number before you book the seats because you are bound to be asked at some time for further info, such as for API or printing out boarding passes!

Or you could get them to sign a disclaimer saying they are responsible for all subsequent fees imposed on the booking after it was made because of insufficient or incorrect information supplied by themselves ..... (joke!)
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Old 19th Jan 2011, 21:43
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by SLF3b View Post
I think that in the UK this would come under the unfair contract terms law, which basically says (I am not a lawyer) that if it ain't fair it ain't legal.

Let them levy a charge by all means - but the charge has to be proportionate to the cost incurred.
I am not a lawyer either, but I don't think that is correct. Charges can be below cost, above cost or a blatant rip-off and still be "fair". Do you really think that first class and economy class airfares are priced in proportion to cost incurred ?

Charges do have to be clear, not hidden, not added in once the customer is signed up etc. If FR hid the charge or had small print that made it practically impossible for the customer to print the boarding card, then you'd be into the unfair terms - but that's not the case.

Penalties for default (including cancellation etc.) are required to be reasonable, which is what the credit card companies got hit for, but that is not the same. If you forget to pay your credit card you are actually in breach of contract and could be sued for damages, and costs. Nothing in FR contract (I believe) requires you to print boarding cards, so there is no default if you don't. Simply a charge for them doing it for you. The charge may be a ripoff or a bargain, as may the ticket price, but neither would be "unfair" as a contract term.


As to the poster booking with the wrong name, that has always been a ticket change (or a no-go), and I am suprised anyone believes different.

I use the short form of my first name exclusively, personally and professionally, however for anything to do with international travel (with passport), especially flying, (or the taxman) it's always the full name as on the passport as only my mother ever calls me. It has always been that way, for decades, and I expect always will be, and for every travel operator I've ever used, as far as I recall. My surname is also frequently mis-spelled, and same applies. I expect an operators typo to cause me hassle, and if it's my typo I expect it to be expensive (check, check, check again before pushing that submit button...).

Ryanair's charge for re-ticketing might be higher than other operators, but so are their other charges e.g. for baggage, and maybe their ticket prices are lower... if you get a better deal overall somewhere else, then take that.

I don't work for them, and nor have I flown with them.
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Old 20th Jan 2011, 06:56
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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19th Jan 2011 17:07
Lonewolf_50
Let me try to understand this: the airline asserts that time and materials to print a ticket amounts to forty euros? Am I missing something?
You're missing the bit where time and materials come into it.
You need the pass to travel. They charge 40 euros to print it. End of story.
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Old 20th Jan 2011, 10:02
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Switzerland
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On the question of charging to print a boarding pass, those of you who agree with Ryannair's approach have missed the crucial sentence:

She said Ryanair was subject to international, European and national air navigation laws which oblige airlines to issue tickets for passengers.

The Warsaw Convention obliges the carrier to deliver a passenger ticket specifying, inter alia, the place and date of issue and the place of departure and destination.

So Ryannair is under a duty (which it can't contract out of) to provide its passengers with a ticket. If they print their own, all well and good (yup, it's quick, convenient and what I do every time I fly), but if they don't, they are entitled to be provided with one by Ryannair at no extra charge.

The right to a contract of carriage (ticket) is a fundamental part of the way the law around international carriage of goods (and by extension, people) has developed (and has its origins in shipping law) -but I'll stop now, at the risk of boring you (.....too late? )
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Old 20th Jan 2011, 17:48
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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A ticket is not a boarding pass - two different things.
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Old 20th Jan 2011, 17:49
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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This is an interesting argument because Ryanair say that they have given the passenger a ticket - in the form of a PDF to the customer's computer. The law has to decide whether a virtual ticket is the same as a paper ticket. Spain does not use case law as in the UK so this case will be a one-off. It would be interesting for someone to challenge Ryanair on the same theme in the UK and see if the judge rules in the customer's favour. If so, case law would set the preceedent and MO'L would be somewhat miffed!
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Old 20th Jan 2011, 21:39
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: scotland
Posts: 169
the exact details on your passport / ID / credit card. Then, no possibility for confusion.

Simples.

MD

Could you tell me which is the passport number of a Spanish passport ?

Is it the number which says "passport number", or the other one ?
occasional is online now  
Old 21st Jan 2011, 09:24
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 175
I cannot agree with your overlooking that there was NOT in fact a passenger change. The passenger remained is the same, that one uses a diminuitive form of same passenger's name is hardly grounds to steal or extort 120 euro from anyone, no less a customer.
But the example given (Wiesje - it's a common short form of Willemiena) would not be an obvious diminutive to someone whose first language is not the same. I am sure M O'L puts Michael in when he books his flights!

As infrequent flyer says :
As to the poster booking with the wrong name, that has always been a ticket change (or a no-go), and I am suprised anyone believes different.
Could you tell me which is the passport number of a Spanish passport ?

Is it the number which says "passport number", or the other one ?
Never seen a Spanish passport, but assume like UK it conforms to EU requirements, so where it says insert passport number you insert the passport number, not the computer style script at the bottom ofthe page I assume you are referring to. As regards booking groups, I have done it; you do as Alsacienne says :

...ask them for their passports before booking and note down the vital information such as names, date of birth, passport date and place of issue and number before you book the seats
In short, accept the rules or pay the same / more / less to fly another airline.

MD
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Old 21st Jan 2011, 11:57
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: scotland
Posts: 169
Could you tell me which is the passport number of a Spanish passport ?

Is it the number which says "passport number", or the other one ?

Never seen a Spanish passport, but assume like UK it conforms to EU requirements, so where it says insert passport number you insert the passport number, not the computer style script at the bottom ofthe page I assume you are referring to.

When you get the opportunity, have a look at a Spanish passport. In the same position as the passport number on a British passport there is a number which I usually treat as the passport number being asked for.
Elsewhere on the same page (not among the computer script) is a quite different number which is labelled "passport number".

I would genuinely like to know which is the correct number to provide to an airline as the passport number.
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Old 21st Jan 2011, 13:58
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: dublin
Posts: 2
The purpose of the name change fee is to discourage touts from buying up all the cheap tickets, and selling them on. If they buy tickets for a tenner each, and sell them on for 60, then a 30 eur name change fee isn't going to be a major problem.

I don't think Ryanair would object to bona fide name changes, where the original person genuinely intended to fly, as opposed to intending to sell the ticket on at a profit. The problem, is how they'd go about efficiently enforcing that.
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Old 21st Jan 2011, 19:47
  #119 (permalink)  
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Lonewolf_50
Let me try to understand this: the airline asserts that time and materials to print a ticket amounts to forty euros? Am I missing something?
The fact is that FR do not want to print boarding passes and so they charge EUR40 to dissuade people from asking them to do it. If they do have to print it, they will make a profit - so they win both ways.

Be very sure that FR are serious about this, just as they have been about others. If the court rules against them, they will find another solution!
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Old 22nd Jan 2011, 18:37
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 835
Originally Posted by PAXboy View Post
The fact is that FR do not want to print boarding passes and so they charge EUR40 to dissuade people from asking them to do it. If they do have to print it, they will make a profit - so they win both ways.

Be very sure that FR are serious about this, just as they have been about others. If the court rules against them, they will find another solution!
Solution is publicised now - if they lose on appeal they will stop printing boarding passes, for any money. No pass, no fly. I suspect that (a) they are absolutely serious and (b) it will be a struggle to prove that approach illegal (bit of a case of be careful what you wish for...).

Not sure what they will do for rebooking at the airport for cancelled flights, last minute ticket sales at the airport etc. - but then I'm not sure they do any of that anyway.
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