BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
Paxing All Over The World
The SSK is right. If I was a BA shareholder, what would have worried me is why it took BA so long to find ANYONE that would do business with them and WHY?
Given that the natural AA link-up is not going to be allowed in any form that either will want (at this stage) then they had to go somewhere. However, their failure to link with one of the other world class carriers dies, in my view, relegate BA to the second tier of global carriers.
Why could they not find anyone to sign with them?
Given that the natural AA link-up is not going to be allowed in any form that either will want (at this stage) then they had to go somewhere. However, their failure to link with one of the other world class carriers dies, in my view, relegate BA to the second tier of global carriers.
Why could they not find anyone to sign with them?
- Too bossy?
- Too dictatorial?
- Too arrogant?
- Too indebted (pensions and unions)?
- ???
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PAXboy:
The EU has approved the BA alliance with American Airlines.
American, BA Score Big For The Oneworld Alliance - Forbes.com
I'm not too worried regarding what has or not happened in the past. BA is obviously attempting to take firm control of their airline and deal with many difficult issues.
Of interest to me is what effect this will have on the future.
For purposes of this thread I'm going to have to do some exploring and learn more regarding benefits, performance, costs, etc., of AA and Iberia's Cabin Crew.
The EU has approved the BA alliance with American Airlines.
American, BA Score Big For The Oneworld Alliance - Forbes.com
I'm not too worried regarding what has or not happened in the past. BA is obviously attempting to take firm control of their airline and deal with many difficult issues.
Of interest to me is what effect this will have on the future.
For purposes of this thread I'm going to have to do some exploring and learn more regarding benefits, performance, costs, etc., of AA and Iberia's Cabin Crew.
A Runyonesque Character
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BA almost merged with KLM and Sabena in 1990, and came very close with KLM in 2000. The first probably failed due to regulatory hurdles which had largely been removed by 2000. The second failed due to inability to agree on the respective shares of the resultant cake. BA's pension burden probably played a part in this.
Diplome, I suspect that this two-way merger (forget AA for the time being, that's just a commercial agreement) will have very little efffect on crew costs and conditions for the foreseeable future. All the early benefits will be in head-office and support functions. Even after six years I suspect there has been very little convergence amongst AF and KLM cabin crews (although I stand to be corrected by a couple of prominent Prooners).
Diplome, I suspect that this two-way merger (forget AA for the time being, that's just a commercial agreement) will have very little efffect on crew costs and conditions for the foreseeable future. All the early benefits will be in head-office and support functions. Even after six years I suspect there has been very little convergence amongst AF and KLM cabin crews (although I stand to be corrected by a couple of prominent Prooners).
Paxing All Over The World
Derek Simpson is on the panel for BBC - BBC Radio 4 Programmes - Any Questions?, 16/07/2010 tonight in the UK but available to listen in real time on line for those overseas. Then there is BBC - BBC Radio 4 Programmes - Any Answers?, 17/07/2010 on Saturday and you can join in on that.
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I personally have been told by very senior people at BA haw amazed they were at the success of AF/KL, having been very sceptical about how two such different corporate cultures could be brought together.
It was a pity that BA did not merge with KL as it would have given it a second hub nearby and maintained BA's presence in the regions. In truth, BA now means very little to a lot of UK pax outside of London and the South East.
Paxing All Over The World
Diplome
Thanks, I didn't realise the reduced agreement had gone through - but it's not the killer alliance they needed.
Y-e-e-e-s, to a point but it is all that has happened in the past that will force the future. Throughout the pax discussions in PPRuNE since I have been participating, many folks (I shall not attempt a %) have thought that BA is past it's prime. During this dispute so much has come to light that shows just how much the previous generations of mgmt and unions have laid traps for the future (wittingly or otherwise).
I agree that the mgmt are now grasping the nettle but I suspect that it is too little, too late. I do not enjoy saying these things - but I speak as I see and think.
The EU has approved the BA alliance with American Airlines.
I'm not too worried regarding what has or not happened in the past. BA is obviously attempting to take firm control of their airline and deal with many difficult issues.
Of interest to me is what effect this will have on the future.
Of interest to me is what effect this will have on the future.
I agree that the mgmt are now grasping the nettle but I suspect that it is too little, too late. I do not enjoy saying these things - but I speak as I see and think.
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Report back on BA PHX to LHR
I have posted here in my capacity as SLF about our upcoming trip to Britain on BA. So for what it's worth I figured I'd report back after the experience.
No international travel for me since 2000 so no recent experiences to compare this with but these are my thoughts.
BA288 PHX to LHR 06/16/10, if I remember correctly.
The crew seemed positive and I have to say I had no complaints about the service. IFE worked fine and I enjoyed the selections. Spent a lot of time listening to some classical music and a radio station program about the adventures of Josef Haydn's head post mortem. Watched an epsiode of "Top Gear" about taking vehicles across South America. Both my wife and I enjoyed both meals and there were numerous refreshment runs between dinner and breakfast. The flight was smooth as glass all the way.
The only thing that marred it for us was a truly awful landing at Heathrow where for a few seconds I was quite certain we were going to crash. We were over the threshold floating down onto the runway when the plane rolled so severely to the left I could see nothing but grass out of the window. The pilot was obviously battling to get it level again and we touched down hard on the left landing gear and took some seconds for the right to hit the concrete which it did with significant force. Plane then lurched sharply to the right so much so that I was pressed hard against my wifes seat. She was sitting to my left.
I suspect some new 747 crew were being given practice at landing the type as I was surprised to see five flight crew board the plane in Phoenix and we were informed by the Captain that there were several extra pilots on board just after takeoff. The flight up till the last moments of landing had been incredibly smooth. It was as if the AP had had control right up till then and suddenly was disengaged and the pilot caught totally unawares.
Whatever the situation there didn't seem to be much in the way of wind at Heathrow when we arrived to account for it and there was certainly no applause for the pilot on this occasion.
The return flight BA289 LHR to PHX on July 04th was far bumpier though not too much to be uncomfortable. The service was still good by and large with both the meals and IFE being of good quality. Or at least the satisfied both my wife and I.
I say by and large about the service as there was one flight attendent who seemed to be one of the strikers. At least thats what I gathered from the snippets of conversation I heard between him and the other FA'.s. He did his job just fine and no complaints about that but I you'd been following the issues around the strike on PRUNE as I had it was obvious that he had issues with the company. As I said while it didn't impact his service to passengers I thought it was somewhat unprofessional to go on about such issues while on the job. But then again I only realised that is what he was doing because of what I learned on this forum. Not sure it would have been of concern to any other passengers.
The landing at Phoenix though was actually worse than the one in London because of all the low level maneuvering in the last ten minutes or so as the plane flew in a wide arc out east of the city over the Superstition mountains. I assume the plane was under some form of manual control at that point. There was so much change in speed, attitude and even altitude in the final minutes I actually thought I was going to throw up which as never happened to me before in a passenger jet.
As to wether or not I'd fly BA again. Don't know. Apart from two problematic landings, (which can happend anywhere anytime I suppose) the service was good. We had chosen BA as they had the only direct flight between Phoenix and London but for both of us 10 hours in an economy seat is proably too much. We may well end up trying a different airline in future if only to be able to compare.
- Peter.
No international travel for me since 2000 so no recent experiences to compare this with but these are my thoughts.
BA288 PHX to LHR 06/16/10, if I remember correctly.
The crew seemed positive and I have to say I had no complaints about the service. IFE worked fine and I enjoyed the selections. Spent a lot of time listening to some classical music and a radio station program about the adventures of Josef Haydn's head post mortem. Watched an epsiode of "Top Gear" about taking vehicles across South America. Both my wife and I enjoyed both meals and there were numerous refreshment runs between dinner and breakfast. The flight was smooth as glass all the way.
The only thing that marred it for us was a truly awful landing at Heathrow where for a few seconds I was quite certain we were going to crash. We were over the threshold floating down onto the runway when the plane rolled so severely to the left I could see nothing but grass out of the window. The pilot was obviously battling to get it level again and we touched down hard on the left landing gear and took some seconds for the right to hit the concrete which it did with significant force. Plane then lurched sharply to the right so much so that I was pressed hard against my wifes seat. She was sitting to my left.
I suspect some new 747 crew were being given practice at landing the type as I was surprised to see five flight crew board the plane in Phoenix and we were informed by the Captain that there were several extra pilots on board just after takeoff. The flight up till the last moments of landing had been incredibly smooth. It was as if the AP had had control right up till then and suddenly was disengaged and the pilot caught totally unawares.
Whatever the situation there didn't seem to be much in the way of wind at Heathrow when we arrived to account for it and there was certainly no applause for the pilot on this occasion.
The return flight BA289 LHR to PHX on July 04th was far bumpier though not too much to be uncomfortable. The service was still good by and large with both the meals and IFE being of good quality. Or at least the satisfied both my wife and I.
I say by and large about the service as there was one flight attendent who seemed to be one of the strikers. At least thats what I gathered from the snippets of conversation I heard between him and the other FA'.s. He did his job just fine and no complaints about that but I you'd been following the issues around the strike on PRUNE as I had it was obvious that he had issues with the company. As I said while it didn't impact his service to passengers I thought it was somewhat unprofessional to go on about such issues while on the job. But then again I only realised that is what he was doing because of what I learned on this forum. Not sure it would have been of concern to any other passengers.
The landing at Phoenix though was actually worse than the one in London because of all the low level maneuvering in the last ten minutes or so as the plane flew in a wide arc out east of the city over the Superstition mountains. I assume the plane was under some form of manual control at that point. There was so much change in speed, attitude and even altitude in the final minutes I actually thought I was going to throw up which as never happened to me before in a passenger jet.
As to wether or not I'd fly BA again. Don't know. Apart from two problematic landings, (which can happend anywhere anytime I suppose) the service was good. We had chosen BA as they had the only direct flight between Phoenix and London but for both of us 10 hours in an economy seat is proably too much. We may well end up trying a different airline in future if only to be able to compare.
- Peter.
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Hi.PJ67.
I'm only an ex-ppl, but I would suggest that your 'awful landing' at Heathrow was simply the result of a nasty crosswind. If this is the case, it is very common practice [even in a 747] to land with the aircraft well banked into the wind, therefore resulting in your view of the grass etc.,
This prevents the aircraft drifting off the centreline, and is absolutely no cause for alarm, and is perfectly normal given the prevailing conditions. I
I can, of course, understand your concern, which, without meaning to be patronising, is simply due to your inexperience.
I have travelled frequently with nearly all trans-atlantic carriers, and always go BA if possible. Happy future landings.
I'm only an ex-ppl, but I would suggest that your 'awful landing' at Heathrow was simply the result of a nasty crosswind. If this is the case, it is very common practice [even in a 747] to land with the aircraft well banked into the wind, therefore resulting in your view of the grass etc.,
This prevents the aircraft drifting off the centreline, and is absolutely no cause for alarm, and is perfectly normal given the prevailing conditions. I
I can, of course, understand your concern, which, without meaning to be patronising, is simply due to your inexperience.
I have travelled frequently with nearly all trans-atlantic carriers, and always go BA if possible. Happy future landings.
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The only thing that marred it for us was a truly awful landing at Heathrow where for a few seconds I was quite certain we were going to crash. We were over the threshold floating down onto the runway when the plane rolled so severely to the left I could see nothing but grass out of the window. The pilot was obviously battling to get it level again and we touched down hard on the left landing gear and took some seconds for the right to hit the concrete which it did with significant force. Plane then lurched sharply to the right so much so that I was pressed hard against my wifes seat. She was sitting to my left.
I suspect some new 747 crew were being given practice at landing the type as I was surprised to see five flight crew board the plane in Phoenix and we were informed by the Captain that there were several extra pilots on board just after takeoff. The flight up till the last moments of landing had been incredibly smooth. It was as if the AP had had control right up till then and suddenly was disengaged and the pilot caught totally unawares.
I suspect some new 747 crew were being given practice at landing the type as I was surprised to see five flight crew board the plane in Phoenix and we were informed by the Captain that there were several extra pilots on board just after takeoff. The flight up till the last moments of landing had been incredibly smooth. It was as if the AP had had control right up till then and suddenly was disengaged and the pilot caught totally unawares.
(It was pretty windy over the last couple of days, pilots not prone to being caught unawares unless the engines stop without warning, then it takes them a few seconds to get to grips with it. I don't think you really need to worry.)
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JEM60
May I suggest you 'consolidate' a little more as a PPL.! Your explanation of crosswind landings in heavy jets is pure bxxxxx.
Approaches and landings in a crosswind are conducted with judicious application of drift compensation not bank. The drift is kicked off in the flare by rudder hopefully to ensure the main wheels touch in line with the runway centre line. Any bank in these circumstances is dangerous and likely to cause engine pod or impact damage.
May I suggest you 'consolidate' a little more as a PPL.! Your explanation of crosswind landings in heavy jets is pure bxxxxx.
Approaches and landings in a crosswind are conducted with judicious application of drift compensation not bank. The drift is kicked off in the flare by rudder hopefully to ensure the main wheels touch in line with the runway centre line. Any bank in these circumstances is dangerous and likely to cause engine pod or impact damage.
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ChicoG:
Haven't found a verifying source yet but I do agree. If Mark Everard has been dismissed I will view it as a positive.
I wonder how long before we hear cries of "Unfair" from the BASSA faithful. lol.
That pornographic website registered to Mr. Everard was one of the more outrageous actions by BASSA in this dispute.
Haven't found a verifying source yet but I do agree. If Mark Everard has been dismissed I will view it as a positive.
I wonder how long before we hear cries of "Unfair" from the BASSA faithful. lol.
That pornographic website registered to Mr. Everard was one of the more outrageous actions by BASSA in this dispute.
Paxing All Over The World
pj67coll, you do not mention in which cabin you were sitting and service expectation is directly related.
As to the landing at LHR, the field is well known for eddies of wind around the big buildings and an upset of the kind you experienced is not unknown and can indeed happen anywhere at any time. The reverse that I have experience is an approach where the aircraft is rather 'jittery' but when within a few seconds of touchdown - suddenly everything smooths out and all is gentle. That is the luck of the draw and has less to do with automatic landing equipment and/or the flight crew than may be imagined.
As to the landing at LHR, the field is well known for eddies of wind around the big buildings and an upset of the kind you experienced is not unknown and can indeed happen anywhere at any time. The reverse that I have experience is an approach where the aircraft is rather 'jittery' but when within a few seconds of touchdown - suddenly everything smooths out and all is gentle. That is the luck of the draw and has less to do with automatic landing equipment and/or the flight crew than may be imagined.
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Duggie
Just in case you read this (Duggie posts on the CC BA thread)
Times change.
This means the content and position of a given job changes.
The position of CC is changing.
There are many people who have to make their own sandwiches on jobs a lot more complicated than yours, there is nothing wrong with making your own sandwiches....
Good CC who think of their guests first will always find a good job.
Live with the changes
Go play politburo somewhere else. Trolling is boring.
Just in case you read this (Duggie posts on the CC BA thread)
Times change.
This means the content and position of a given job changes.
The position of CC is changing.
There are many people who have to make their own sandwiches on jobs a lot more complicated than yours, there is nothing wrong with making your own sandwiches....
Good CC who think of their guests first will always find a good job.
Live with the changes
Go play politburo somewhere else. Trolling is boring.
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Diplome
A CSD friend of mine heard of Mark Everard's dismissal on arrival back at LHR today. You're quite right on your assumption, she's up in arms about his 'unfair' sacking he being one of the nicer reps! Unfortunately I was unaware at the time that he was behind the pornographic website. She will be advised accordingly
Last edited by GCI35; 17th Jul 2010 at 15:52. Reason: Ommision
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MissM and Ava Hannah seem to have resigned from the other thread, so welcome Dougie Fashion to enlighten us all on the practices of the men behind the door and benefits of being a BASSA member! At least he's not based in JNB.
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Mark Everard
Mr Everard cannot have been dismissed for starting a website with the name pccc and posting porn on it.
Posting porn on the internet is not illegal in itself and BA does not own PCCC (I hope) so why did he get dismissed?
Posting porn on the internet is not illegal in itself and BA does not own PCCC (I hope) so why did he get dismissed?
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Could Mr E have been dismissed for bringing the company into disrepute?
Or if he was stupid enough to actually host the pornographic images on his own site/server (especially if it is located in the UK) that could have criminal proceedings brought into play?
Or if he was stupid enough to actually host the pornographic images on his own site/server (especially if it is located in the UK) that could have criminal proceedings brought into play?