Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight)
Reload this Page >

BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight) If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your questions here?

BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Old 30th Aug 2010, 20:28
  #1661 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 79
Posts: 184
Uniforms and Briefings

Having just read the thread BA - Singapore, regarding the crew being too busy discussing the strikes and the BA-Bassa situation, than to provide a proper service and attend to the customers - ('in so many words'; in case of any picking nits being about ) - BA should bring in the following changes.

Instruct all uniformed staff that only the standard uniform may be worn - any deviation from this, such as Bassa lanyards, to be replaced with the correct item in exchange for the non standard item - staff not allowed to commence work until any non standard items replaced.

All briefings to be carried out under the authority and presence of the Captain, which will also help to bind the entire crew as one team entity. CSD's and SCCM's to ensure that the uniform standard is maintained at all times.

I firmly believe that this would help bring about a new team spirit and identify and remove some of the festering diversive influences currently at work.
Entaxei is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 08:14
  #1662 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: spain
Posts: 283
An excellent post on the other thread by Colonel White. In my opinion of course.
Fly380 is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 11:44
  #1663 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 79
Posts: 184
Just read the latest instructions to the masses from DH on the other thread, apart from the usual threats etc., one thing appears to be emerging - a true Basil Fawlty style "Zis Iss Your Furhrer Speaking" - trouble is he means it - which seems to be an escalation of manner to one which I would expect to be shown in someone with serious mental problems. Although many have previously made comments about 'losing it', I believe that now he has and the sooner Unite disband Bassa the better, before the calls are made to go to war!

Last edited by Entaxei; 31st Aug 2010 at 11:46. Reason: spell (casting)
Entaxei is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 12:09
  #1664 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
call100:

Forgive me for being a tad suspicious about the SWP somehow appearing by chance, with knowledge of exactly where to go, immediately after being addressed at their meeting by a BASSA member.

The fact that they were also present and welcome at Bedfont says much about BASSA...though its not as if an individual doesn't have a variety of incidents to cause their opinion of BASSA to be one of general disgust.

While I am certainly not anti-union, I do believe the only way Cabin Crew and BA are going to have a hope of success in the future is either a total change out of the militant leaders of BASSA, or the elimination of BASSA altogether.
Diplome is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 12:38
  #1665 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,835
While I am certainly not anti-union, I do believe the only way Cabin Crew and BA are going to have a hope of success in the future is either a total change out of the militant leaders of BASSA, or the elimination of BASSA altogether
I'm not so pessimistic. I think BASSA are fast becoming an utter irrelevance to BA, if they are not so already... some of their members are still having the odd kick, usually to try and wind up their most hated foe (the pilots), but only the most tunnel visioned of their members can believe they now have the industrial muscle to bring about the downfall of BA or a change in BA's CEO. BASSA has squandered all it's political leverage, quite why or how DH is allowed to stay in post, winding up the masses whilst having no "skin in the game" is beyond me. Union rules?????
wiggy is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 13:03
  #1666 (permalink)  
RTR
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 127
call100

The Mail, The Telegraph, The Guardian, you may not like, but they report what they report whether it is true or not. Its been said and thatís what we 'listen to' - like it or not

From Diplome
Forgive me for being a tad suspicious about the SWP somehow appearing by chance, with knowledge of exactly where to go, immediately after being addressed at their meeting by a BASSA member.
Very true.

Anyway, I am afraid I draw the line at responding to sarcastic twaddle. Clearly you are not capable of holding a debate without resorting to snide. We have had enough of that. Not for me thanks.
RTR is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 13:40
  #1667 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,964
Originally Posted by RTR View Post
Anyway, I am afraid I draw the line at responding to sarcastic twaddle. Clearly you are not capable of holding a debate without resorting to snide. We have had enough of that. Not for me thanks.
Calling all reps and unionists liars and cheats will probably bring about a reaction, rather than a debate.
Litebulbs is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 14:12
  #1668 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 859
I have to agree with Litebulbs here. I would hazard a guess that in Union life, as in normal life, most people are honest and hard working, delivering their very best for the people they represent. There will also be a small minority of rogues, that sadly, is human nature.

What lies in between are those who choose to hold a different set of political ideals to ourselves. That does not make them criminal or negligent, indeed they are often honest and passionate and zealous in their cause.

What is not at issue here is the honesty or integrity of union reps in general. There may be one or two who are rogues, more driven by personal agendas than that of looking after their members best interests. I am sure most here would place DH in this camp, but did he start off that way off that way or has his ill judged actions pushed him into self interest?

You simply cannot go from the specific to the general and hope to maintain credibility. One union rep is corrupt ergo all union reps are corrupt, just makes no sense.

I despise what BASSA is doing to BA, but I do not think that the reps are malicious and corrupt. They are horribly misguided and are doing irrepparable damage to their own union but I do believe that they are passionate and committed individuals striving for what they believe in
Juan Tugoh is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 15:25
  #1669 (permalink)  
RTR
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 127
Litebulbs

I go back aways. When unions were driven by power hungry shop stewards and shopfloor reps. Things were dire and much harm was done. Some of that exists now if your head is in the 70's and 80's.

I am convinced that Unite is, and therefore so is BASSA, trying very hard to bring back the bad old days. As for liars and cheats: "BA are just circling 747's to make them look busy", "there are 24 jumbos parked at Cardiff" and endless other stuff on here and the CC thread. All proven to be untrue but Unite listened to them and followed, with DH pulling their strings. I probably did sound as generalising but there is a myriad of claim and counter claim based on lies. Made up tales of woe when none existed but the intention was to make it sound as rough as possible. The bitternes was not invented, it existed in the raw and in such a case it breeds more and more angst and I know from experience the breeding grounds are entrenched in these two unions and they are making it much much worse than it is.

Now we have a threat of another strike according to Unite. What for? The reinstatement of staff travel and re-instatement of the miscreant reps. Why?
That was NEVER a reason - it was created by the staff themselves. The other reasons have long gone away. They long for another strike! For God's sake why?

BA will never go down and they won't bow to either Unite or BASSA. BASSA will not win because they have dug a hole so deep that they cannot get out. But will they stop this stupidity - NO! But it WILL end that's for sure - in tears and heartbreak, broken homes and bills galore. That's what unions can do.

I do agree with the thought that McCluskey won't win the election as Gen Sec of Unite. But if not him - who?

Last edited by RTR; 31st Aug 2010 at 15:37.
RTR is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 15:27
  #1670 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: England
Posts: 22
Juan Togeh

Whilst I see your point of view Juan, being a simple soul, logic dictates to me that if these people are 'misguided', indeed horribly as you put it, one has to question their collective and individual grasp of simple concepts. Suffice to say "There are none so blind as those who 'refuse' to to see" with apologies from one who knows the physical feeling.
Oneye is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 15:44
  #1671 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,964
RTR

I understand what you are saying and no doubt there is a fair amount of truth in it. But we are not in the 70's and 80's now. Legislation is in place to prevent the wholesale return of industrial power and I see it getting more restrictive, rather than less, through the term of this Government, especially if a uberleftie gets the top job at Unite.

The two sides are in a fight and it is getting dirty, well it has been for a while. I would imagine that both sides are not going to come out of it smelling of roses, but it is obvious that one side has made a far better job of it, than the other.
Litebulbs is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 15:52
  #1672 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Juan Toguh:

Regarding this statement:

I despise what BASSA is doing to BA, but I do not think that the reps are malicious and corrupt. They are horribly misguided and are doing irrepparable damage to their own union but I do believe that they are passionate and committed individuals striving for what they believe in
With all due respect I would assert that one can be "passionate" and also "malicious".

My personal observation is that BASSA reps seem to have knowingly mislead their membership, thinking not of what harm they could be doing to the individuals they are supposed to be protecting, and more of their personal egos and positions.

I can find no other explantion for the messages submitted by Mr. Holley, the advice given by Ms. Malone, the actions during negotiations, etc., etc..
Diplome is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 15:53
  #1673 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,103
Arthur Scargill's Leadership

An indication of the NUM's membership decline is that, whereas at the time of the strike it had nearly 300,000 members, that figure is now down to about 1,500.

Francis Beckett, co-author of Marching to the Fault Line, the most recent history of the dispute, said:

"Arthur Scargill took a proud and powerful trade union, and, by sheer hubris and a failure to think through what he was doing, turned it into a shadow of its former self; he created sectarianism and gave rise to a union that was so divided that it started turning in on itself."
Neither Scargill nor the union were (sic) available for comment.
The quotes above are from 'The Grauniad,' hardly a publication of the Right Wing!
QED Die Fuhrer DH
Neptunus Rex is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 16:16
  #1674 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 859
Diplome and Oneye,

I agree with you both, I was making a general point re unions. I do think that the majority of the BASSA reps are wrong but not malicious or stupid or corrupt

As the loons who write BASSAs stuff are fond of historical allusions, the situation is akin to Europe in the thirties where the intelligent, politically aware saw the choice as either facism or communism. Neither proved to be the correct choice but at the time that is all anyone could see. This dispute has caused a polarization of opinion, it does not mean that one side is right and the other wrong merely that they reflect each other.

As I said in my opening lines there are some that are obviously both corrupt and malicious, sadly for BASSA they are the ones that are pulling the strings. Unions have, in the UK, been an incredible force for good - furthering workers rights and protecting the health and safety, and fighting for recompense when required. However, they became too powerful thinking that they ran the manufacturing industries of Britain and their actions effectively destroyed these industries. The unions through good intentions destroyed the jobs they were fighting for, shipbuilding is a classic example of this.

Yet those very unions that destroyed shipbuilding were trying to provide safety and security in long term jobs. The union leaders were acting with the best of intentions but with limited vision, certainly they had no strategic vision. All of the same can be said of BASSA. As to all their reps being malicious and corrupt, I think you are overstating the case. It is certain that DH has a massive vested interest in not settling on the current deal as he will remain out of a job if he does, he has to fight for reps to be re-instated. He has also proven himself to be petty minded. LM, by allowing him to continue with his drivel, is also be suspect, but then where does that put TW and DS - they have also stood by while DH has bullied.

Ultimately all of this means, I suppose, that this is not a simple matter that can be condensed into a few soundbites.

Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 31st Aug 2010 at 17:48.
Juan Tugoh is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 16:24
  #1675 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tracey Island
Posts: 1,496
Originally Posted by RTR View Post
call100

The Mail, The Telegraph, The Guardian, you may not like, but they report what they report whether it is true or not. Its been said and thatís what we 'listen to' - like it or not



Very true.

Anyway, I am afraid I draw the line at responding to sarcastic twaddle. Clearly you are not capable of holding a debate without resorting to snide. We have had enough of that. Not for me thanks.
You get the debate you deserve.....Your posts were statements (According to you true) not points of debate....You insisted on tarring all with the same brush which was totally ridiculous...So the Holier than thou attitude doesn't really wash...

Anyway, to move on.....I'm not sure that there is any leadership within BASSA. Too many 'reps' are making individual statements and responding on forums and nothing seems to be joined up.
I've never been involved in negotiations or IA where we would have allowed the maverick actions that BASSA reps seem to indulge in.
There are checks and balances to ensure IA is a last resort. Something has broken down and needs fixing ASAP.
I agree that it's either fixed or BASSA will cease to exist by attrition. Hopefully someone will step forward and take the flak and turn it around....Slim hope, but, there is still time, just.

Last edited by call100; 31st Aug 2010 at 16:35.
call100 is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 16:37
  #1676 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,103
Biggins was married to Australian actress Beatrice Norbury from 1971 to 1974. He is now openly gay and formed a civil partnership with his partner, flight attendant Xxxx Xxxxxxxx, on 30 December 2006 at Hackney Register Office.
Matter of public record. BA steward's name deleted for thread decorum.

I do think that the 'partners with alternative lifestyles' thing has been somewhat overdone.

Mr Biggins is such an important meeja megastar that 'Oor Wullie' should be afraid - in fact, be very afraid!
Neptunus Rex is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 16:40
  #1677 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Neptunus Rex:

Darn you!! You have my curiosity aroused. I'll now have to go explore and found out who this Biggins fellow is.
Diplome is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 16:56
  #1678 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Well this is interesting, and explains some of his motivation:

He jokes loudly that one of the good things about being with his partner, BA steward Neil Sinclair, is that he can fly round the world on 10pc fares.
Read more: Queen of the luvvie jungle: How Christopher Biggens can wave goodbye to years of z-list pantos | Mail Online


Evidently Mr. Biggins is still not exactly flush.

Moderators. I did not eliminate Mr. Sinclair's name as he has been quite open regarding his relationship with Mr. Biggin's, including participating in media opportunities.
Diplome is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 17:37
  #1679 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,103
Diplome
(What a marvellous name.)
I think the phrase ŗ propos is "Celebrated Nonentity."

Cheers,
Neppie
Neptunus Rex is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2010, 17:45
  #1680 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,103
Oh Dear, Oh Dear!

From today's Daily Telegraph:
Passengers facing the threat of Christmas strikes as union hardliners moved to escalate the long-running cabin crew dispute.
Not again, surely. It's time for BA to drop these malcontents from the 'First Team.'
Neptunus Rex is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.