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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Old 22nd Aug 2010, 17:21
  #1541 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942

Hi, I was sent a copy of the audited Union accounts last week. Don't know why because I left unite a long time ago!!

Anyway Lisanne Malone is mentioned as a member of the Executive Comittee and all she claimed was 223 but Duncan Holey is not mentioned at all.

It does not mention anything about branch secretaries getting a percentage of the membership subs anywhere in the document. Of course they don't mention everything but that seems like something that I would have thought might get a mention.

Maybe it is just a rumour!! I have always been sceptical about this as all the union reps draw a salary from BA as did DH so why would the union give him subs from the members as well?
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Old 22nd Aug 2010, 17:43
  #1542 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 75
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Thanks, Betty ... that's a completely 'convincing' set of accounts. So Ms Malone's Union activities only cost the membership 223, and she got a FREE Duncan Holley to go with it?

Gosh, I hope nobody at BA or their Legal people read this. Someone might some serious investigation of those Accounts, and those who signed them off.
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Old 22nd Aug 2010, 17:45
  #1543 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tracey Island
Posts: 1,496
Branch secretaries don't get the percentage the branch does. The secretary can only claim expenses.....I suggest it was a rumour born of either misinterpretation or pure mischief, or, possibly a bit of both.....
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Old 22nd Aug 2010, 17:59
  #1544 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942

There is a link to the accounts on a post by SNAS no 1592.

I expect that they get expences from the branch funds as well but only expences I think.

BA pay union reps their salary plus a daily allowance ( I believe) much the same as crew who work in Recruitment and Training which is about 50 per day( in leiu of lost allowances). At the moment due to the dispute union reps are not being off-lined so at the moment they are not picking up their off-line allowances.

I don't know if DH gets all thoes extra sub payments but I very much doubt it myself.
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Old 22nd Aug 2010, 18:37
  #1545 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Age: 63
Posts: 210
Having been a branch secretary of the CPSA many moons ago I can say that then there were no payments made.

The only thing you could claim for was expenses where justified.

Your employer pays you normally for the time you spend on union activities during working hours - providing they agree that you can be released

For time spent on union duties outside your normal working hours - that's out of your community spirit and wish to help your colleagues - i.e. .. no money ..

The only folks who got paid a salary by a union were those directly employed by them.

I can't imagine it being any different now.
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Old 22nd Aug 2010, 22:24
  #1546 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DFW, Tx - USA
Posts: 182
There were statements in the "private" crew thread that DH was now an employee of Unite. He is NO longer employed by BA, that is for sure.
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Old 23rd Aug 2010, 00:35
  #1547 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 73
If, and I say if, Duncan Holley is now employed by Unite I would assume that Wooley and Simpson will be able to control him. This may change the dynamics going forward. Given his most recent statements I would think any employment by Unite is only since he has gone silent. The other question is other than controlling Duncan why would Unite employ him after this is resolved. Certainly they do not want him involved in any negotiations. Does Unite have a lunch room at their offices?
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Old 23rd Aug 2010, 18:35
  #1548 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Age: 75
Posts: 5,891
Can a person be an employee of Unite and also still be a branch secretary of a sub-union that represents employees of a company he no longer works for?
That's a bizarre scenario.
On the premise that this dispute has stretched the definition of bizarre to new boundaries, the answer is possibly yes!

However, I agree that DH's position is, dare I say, unusual ... and undoubtedly being analysed by BA's legal people.

In fairness, who are Messrs Wooley and Simpson employed by? They represent employees who are members of the diaspora called "Unite the Union".
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Old 23rd Aug 2010, 18:40
  #1549 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 79
Posts: 184
BASSA structure

A number of comments have been made about various aspects of Bassa's capability to do things differently from the normal course of events - i.e. passing changes to the Bassa rules that allow the normal change of officers/reps to be delayed until this dispute is over, thereby keeping all the militants in place - previously making changes that only Bassa can call off the IA or any other activity in this dispute - having sole authority to accept or deny any offer made by BA - all of which apparently leaves Unite helpless to intervene and are not normal rules for a trade union. As a result I find it quite easy to believe that the Bassa has been structured over time to be of benefit primarily to those running it.

In the meantime the militants still appear to be very active, creating new trolls or constructed apologists to try and gain sympathy for Bassa and co, twisting any facts in their way. One of the most wicked things I have ever seen is the Bassa release to their members around October last year, stating that they had continually tried to negotiate with BA, who refused to have any meaningful meetings with them, but that Bassa would continue trying with all their might to obtain a just resolution and members should not even read any statements from their employer BA.

This was subsequently blown out of the water at the court hearing regarding inposition, when it became apparent that Bassa had for many months, refused all opportunities to meet or negotiate and were blindly intent on IA and trying to win back control of BA operations. That release to their members was in my view the worst case of lying, twisted propoganda since the war, the problem being that so many believed it, having been primed to only believe Bassa, that the world was flat!

And so it continues on the other thread, Angelica 20102010 pops up, a 37 year old 4 poster in Italy, explaining how it can't all be Bassa's fault. A poster 'Asperge' fights anyone who says anything bad about Bassa. Somewhere else a supposed CC 'Keving Cok' has apparently been fired and is bitterly complaining about injustice and that 62 have been suspended and 12 sacked, if those are true figures, in my view, we have a long way to go yet. I don't know the way in which any posters are accepted/vetted on the other thread, but it would save a lot of wasted effort if these non CC BA staff/Trolls were filtered out earlier - but I do appreciate that its difficult.
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Old 23rd Aug 2010, 18:48
  #1550 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 41
An interesting post on the crew thread by "tofster" saying he/she will accept less crew on board and reduced pay in line with pilots but will not accept MF recruitment at lower wages and will take further IA if called. He/she doesn't seem to understand that further IA is most likely to be unprotected and will thus trigger dismissal and dicusses it in a way that sounds like it is his/her entitlement such that "if no fresh talks or offers are forthcoming" from BA it is not only inevitable but justified.

Unfortunately the time for accepting less crew on board was last year and BA have never, ever, to my knowledge, asked crew to take less pay rather they have done everything to preserve current pay to legacy crew. MF has been introduced as BA has needed to move forward while BASSA has refused to engage in mature communication. Finally, it is clear BA will be not be making better but only diminishing offers if any at all from now on.

There is something strangely disconnected from the real issues and even somewhat irrational in tofster's post. Almost like a lost sheep who is confused having become disconnected from the flock and those who used to give leadership.

If this post is in anyway true and typical of other union crew members the time is ripe for PCCC to move in.

Last edited by Phil Rigg; 23rd Aug 2010 at 22:49.
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Old 23rd Aug 2010, 21:19
  #1551 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 79
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Oddities too

On the other thread, that semi poster Tofster, makes very similar sounds to Kevin Cok and also reminds one of that tomato chappie and one or two other past entities - same prayer book?

In the meantime apropo of Bassa rules, there have also been a couple of comments made recently about how very difficult it is for anyone new to get themselves onto the list as a candidate for the Bassa council/committee, due to the onerous and detailed background, age, experience and qualifications required by the rules.

And so to bed .......zzzzzz
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Old 24th Aug 2010, 07:25
  #1552 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 455
An interesting post on the crew thread by "tofster" saying he/she will accept less crew on board
There was nothing much interesting about it. It was just the same banal twaddle the BASSAmentalists trot out, with the same poor attempts at a passive-aggressive approach.

Lest we forget, if "tofster" and the rest of the lemmings had told their union that it was OK to work one down, then they wouldn't have their arses hanging out of the window now, would they?

The fact is their union had them indoctrinated into believing they could do what they like, so they fought the removal of a crew member until BA were forced to do it, then called it "imposition".

Well tough. You reap what you sow, and these BASSA diehards that are coming on here now saying "they wouldn't have minded working a man down" are quite obviously lying, and trying once again to swing the blame to the company and the CEO.

Thankfully, when you have a space cadet like Duncan Holley orchestrating the campaign, it isn't very hard to shoot it down.

He should stick to talking to his tomatoes (mind you they probably pay more attention).
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Old 24th Aug 2010, 10:58
  #1553 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 41
The Ball is in the Apathetic Majority CC's Court!

I guess that having been repeatedly banned under new userIDs DH has possibly resorted to hijacking tofster's userID. This will be a good one for the mods to untangle!

Having won the power struggle, BA/WW cannot settle with UNITE/BASSA as long as DH and his crew are in control otherwise the madness will continue. BASSA's current leadership has imposed every restrictive measure possible to keep themselves in power thus making leadership change by CC membership difficult.

This leaves the majority apathetic CC still paying their monthly BASSA dues in limbo with the onus on them for action if matters are to be resolved. Either they overthrow BASSA's current leadership or they transfer their membership to PCCC which my guess is still way short of the 40% or so numbers required to function officially.

Regarding the dispute, BA can do nothing but sit back and wait for the majority of CC to get whatever message they need to take whatever action they choose. Meanwhile it has a perfect vacuum to move ahead with MF and even at an increased pace if it desires. For minor recalcitrant rumbles then UNITE will slap BASSA down. Should the IA ballot threat rear again then BA is ready to take its Way Forward offer off the table and to warn CC of unprotected action. If IA happens BA can proceed with dismissals, should it choose, but in any case has plenty of VCC to cover the substantially diminished CC that will actually take IA under these circumstances.

BA has completely contained the militants and we now wait, at last, to hear from the CC apathetic majority.

CC you have the limelight - the ball is firmly in your court - rise-up and speak - demand better from your union or switch your allegiance - how say you?

Last edited by Phil Rigg; 25th Aug 2010 at 15:42.
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Old 24th Aug 2010, 15:48
  #1554 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 41
Deathly silence......... ! ??

Oh well, it was a good intro - maybe this is going to take a while?
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Old 24th Aug 2010, 16:04
  #1555 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: west yorkshire UK
Age: 74
Posts: 11

The tomatoes are debating the problem.
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Old 24th Aug 2010, 16:59
  #1556 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Age: 75
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Never mind ... the CC thread is unravelling the latest distorted 'facts'.

I live in hope that some people will eventually be able to see the truth through the layers of tomato puree.
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Old 24th Aug 2010, 17:53
  #1557 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
I don't think anything will happen until the next BASSA meeting on 6 September.

Oh to be a fly on the wall....
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Old 24th Aug 2010, 18:07
  #1558 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Nov 1999
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I don't think anything will happen until the next BASSA meeting on 6 September.

Oh to be a fly on the wall....
I wouldnt hold your breath. Here's a rough guide.

1. Many less than made the last one will turn up and the number will be multiplied 3-4 fold and posted on other thread by duty BASSA member.

2. There will be several speeches regarding bullying/imposition/comparisons with assorted wars and genocides.

3. There will be no announcement of a strike ballot just some time wasting bull about not giving BA any idea of their intentions (at least until BASSA have a clue what their own intentions are)

4. There will then be a vote where all present will agree with whatever the politburo just told them.

You arent expecting dissent are you?
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Old 24th Aug 2010, 18:35
  #1559 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 75
Posts: 5,891
Gosh, that's a bit cynical!

I was thinking along the lines of:
1. DH has a new job with Unite, and will see you OK once he's harvested the greenhouse.

2. WW is on the verge of resigning due to 'corporate stress'.

3. The next IA will involve all strikers blocking the M4 somewhere near Cardiff, or Bristol. "Bert's Burgers" has been engaged to do the catering.

4. All 11,823 BASSA members have already voted for the next round of IA. The date of the ballot will be announced shortly.
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Old 24th Aug 2010, 19:24
  #1560 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 149
DH has a new job with Unite
If this rumour is true then I wonder if this Unite's way of easing DH out of the branch secretary role?
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