Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight)
Reload this Page >

BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight) If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your questions here?

BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Old 30th Jul 2010, 12:55
  #961 (permalink)  

A Runyonesque Character
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The South of France ... Not
Age: 71
Posts: 1,209
Meanwhile, in a parallel universe:

Airline: "If you go on strike I will withdraw your travel concessions"
Union: "You can't do that, it would be discrimination against people taking legitimate industrial action"
Airline: "Oh, sorry, I hadn't thought of that. Please ignore that last statement"
The SSK is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 13:12
  #962 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 4
If BASSA were to win its impending court case against BA and succeed in its estimable attempt to have such travel determined as contractual, won't that unleash a really squiggly can of worms for the poor crews which have used such travel benefits.
Surely HMRC would be tempted to tax previous staff travel retroactively in the hands of the employee in whose contractual employment the benefit had legally been deemed to have fallen. The potential rewards for the nation's coffers would be huge, the issue too profitable to be ignored and the case work largely done. No doubt some negotiations could be entered into individually or collectively on the part of the crew union and HMRC but travel records are by law required to be kept for six years in order to facilitate retrospective tax assessment debts by the employer and employees and any UK tax case determined by law usually tends to the unequivocal.
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 13:21
  #963 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 79
Posts: 184
Safety Concerns

Why are you on here - you have stated that you are not part of aviation - your only stance is endlessly repeating that BASSA members are being badly treated by having the withdrawal of ST as a result of taking IA - that their actions are being treated far too seriously in the responses that have resulted, despite in some cases resulting in criminal investigations - effectively that they are misunderstood and we should all back off and stop using such emotive words and responses as it is unfair!!

I suggest that you either start discussing and responding in an adult fashion or go and post on the BASSA sites, where no doubt all will be in total agreement with you.
Entaxei is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 13:47
  #964 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Age: 65
Posts: 475
that their actions are being treated far too seriously in the responses that have resulted, despite in some cases resulting in criminal investigations - effectively that they are misunderstood and we should all back off and stop using such emotive words and responses as it is unfair!!
Highlight one of my posts that supports the above.
Safety Concerns is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 13:49
  #965 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 178
Ulterior Motive

I restarted reading this forum following a conversation with a friend who knows someone who knows someone.....

I was challenged by my friend to find the flaw in Unite/Bassa's case that would be the eventual undoing of Bassa and huge embarrassment to Unite - a major flaw not necessarily obvious. I took me a while. I got there though and my friend has confirmed I am right.

I've stated it above but couched it in a different way leaving me feeling rather like a dirty troll, so I'll come clean:

Fact: BASSA membership numbers are much less than they are stating. A monitored ballot on strike action would reveal this and you can therefore not expect anything of the sort, ever!

Fact: Preparations have been made for a challenge to BASSA's legitimacy linked to membership numbers.

Fact: BASSA are totally and utterly at sea partly as a consequence of their obvious other failings but more particularly because it has been made known to them that the number of its members is under serious scrutiny. Unite will play dumb on this one, without too much effort.

That's all.
mrpony is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 14:05
  #966 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Age: 65
Posts: 475
Mr Pony, I hate to be the one to tell you this but it looks as though you have been sold a donkey.

Let me guess, the someone who knows someone who knows someone is against the industrial action.

If Bassa and Unite were so stupid they deserve everything they get and I would start agreeing with Entaxei
Safety Concerns is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 14:06
  #967 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Zulu Time Zone
Posts: 701
mrpony..

Interesting hypothesis, and seems so bleedin obvious once it's been pointed out

I read in the Guardian that the union are claiming 67% of their members rejected the 'final offer'. Now, it was clearly 67% of the 5000ish who voted but that is different. Or is it?! Freudian slip by UNITE, predictable spin or sloppy journalism? Who knows - but it's fun to speculate sometimes.

Last edited by oggers; 30th Jul 2010 at 14:43.
oggers is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 14:13
  #968 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
It would not surprise me if BASSA have no idea what their true membership numbers are.

Of interest also was hearing McCluskey (I believe) state that they had received 7,000 and some odd number of "claims" this morning.

As BA knows exactly how many have lost staff travel and the representation is being made that they will fly 100% of long haul in the event of another strike its reasonable to believe that each "claim" does not represent a unique individual.

Unite/BASSA do like getting creative with numbers.
Diplome is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 14:13
  #969 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 178
Safety Concerns - Donkey and Bassa numbers

The donkey seller has asked me not to participate in this or any other forum on this or any other subject from hereon in.

My information is robust and sourced very close to the centre.

And that really is all. Bye.
mrpony is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 14:55
  #970 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 178
baggersup

The source of my information asked me to desist so I did. I was only supposed to be guessing what the big flaw was, not publicising it. I have to say, however, that I agree with you and seeing as you have already put it 'out there', and at the risk of wearing my friendship with the source a bit thin, the numbers you quote are about the same as has been indicated to me.

I can well imagine the sort of chaos this is causing Bassa - I wonder of they have found out how to delete a hard drive yet?
mrpony is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 14:57
  #971 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 312
Re the alleged 7,000 claims, maybe they relate to separate claims for each strike period and therefore , each striker who was out all the time had to make several submissions?
Skylion is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 15:16
  #972 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 79
Posts: 184
Safety Concerns

Interesting that all your posts prior to the 28th July (3 days ago) - have vanished - so rebuttal is now impossible as are your origins - but you have been profilic in those three days.
Entaxei is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 15:21
  #973 (permalink)  
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the western edge of The Moor
Age: 63
Posts: 1,099
On the question of membership, as the majority will probably pay by salary deduction I'm sure BA know a fairly good ballpark figure.
(was it not BASSA's inability to decipher the salary deduction list last year that was part of the problem they had with the Christmas strike?)
west lakes is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 15:31
  #974 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 42
Speculation

Time for some harmless speculation.

On this forum and the other one I suspect we have:
  • genuine cabin crew from both sides of the divide
  • genuine airline personnel from both sides of the divide
  • genuine SLF
  • anonymous Bassa and Unite reps
  • anonymous BA managers
  • anonymous legally trained individuals
  • back room lawyers
  • and others

For what its worth I think Safety Concerns could be employed by O. H. Parsons and Col White could well be a BA manager
101917 is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 15:58
  #975 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Westlakes:

I'm not sure what the percentage is of those who pay by salary deduction and those that make automatic payments out of their checking accounts.

Its obvious that BASSA has seen a reduction in membership, but given their own confusion regarding mailing out ballots to non-members, etc., just how quickly the numbers are adjusted after someone has departed is of interest.

Is BASSA required to present accurate numbers on its website? Is prompt reporting required or can it try to paint a rosier picture by delaying?
Diplome is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 16:14
  #976 (permalink)  
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the western edge of The Moor
Age: 63
Posts: 1,099
I'm not sure what the percentage is of those who pay by salary deduction
I seem to recall, from whichever thread was running at the time, that it may be in excess of 90%
west lakes is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 16:53
  #977 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 4
101917.
'Time for some harmless speculation.
On this forum and the other one I suspect we have:


* genuine airline personnel from both sides of the divide
* genuine SLF
* anonymous legally trained individuals
* back room lawyers'

This whole BA business is not of great significance any more. I think the matter has to some degree become a devilish if silently gleeful speculation as to the fire and brimstone awaiting members of BASSA and their leaders. I have a sneaky suspicion that more people wish them ill than applaud either their actions or their moralities. No doubt the same could be said by some of the BA board and Mr Walsh but no one much these days is speculating sensibly on his demise. One hopes he is in rather better shape than was secretly John Smith. Therefore I think it is reasonable to conclude that some read these pages in anticipatory delight of the sufferings to come and that others read the paper mill in some trepidation as to what others might suggest could come.
Anyway I'll confess to being or having been all four of the above strata of Illuminati at one time or another and of course I adore genuine cabin crew. But you'd have to ask my lawyer for my definition of genuine when it comes to cabin crew and I might just have to put a disclaimer on that anyway.

Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 30th Jul 2010 at 17:54.
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 17:12
  #978 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
Posts: 2,294
Unite have for several days now indicated that the offer on the table is acceptable, IF ST is returned.

This offer is worse than previous offers dismissed out of hand by UNITE/BASSA. This has caused BA to lose money and passenger confidence - who knows how much damage to the brand has been done and the resultant knock-on cost.

So if the offer is accepted, the strikes have been for nothing - in fact they will have cost CC some Ts and Cs.

If I was a member of the BA Board (the ones who are directing WW exactly how they want him to proceed) I would be doing my utmost to make sure that the CC, who caused the losses for absolutely no reason or gain, were hung out to dry.

If the Board and WW wanted to crush BASSA (as some CC claim), is it any real wonder to any sane thinking person out there?
anotherthing is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 17:41
  #979 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin
Age: 61
Posts: 158
Mr Pony

Your speculation as regard future BA action fits in with my own. I wondered at the time why BA was sending individual contracts and "I'm not in the Union, honest" forms to people it knew were in BASSA. Then it was suggested to me that it would provide very good intelligence for BA as to the possibility of winning a de-recognition ballot, ie if lots of remaining BASSA members tried to accept the offer.

It's at times like this that Unions really wish they hadn't agreed a check off deal with an employer. BA has a very good idea how many members BASSA has, just by looking at how many staff have subs deducted from their salary each month. They know how many stopped paying in time to make a honest declaration when signing their acceptance of the offer. They also know how many signed the offer but are still in the Union and so will be getting, or already have a "We regret, but..." letter saying they can't accept the deal as individuals.

All the above is very useful in giving BA an idea as to whether or not they'd win a derecognition ballot if they went for one. It's actually high risk as, if they lose, they're stuck with BASSA for another three years at least. However, if the numbers look good, they can at least threaten Unite with it. The key point here is that, whilst BA could not use the offer to induce staff to leave the Union, there is nothing as far as I know that stops them using the offer to induce staff to vote against maintenance of the collective bargaining agreement. If I'm correct on this, then BA could go for derecognition, and state that if they win then they'll retable the offer and thereby allow Union members to sign up to it.

The above is all speculation. However, I keep thinking back to the AGM where Walsh and Broughton apparently said they were "sick and tired" of BASSA, which is somewhat undiplomatic langauge to use about an organisation they expect to continue as a valued partner in the business. The fact is, though, that BA know exactly where they stand in terms of the numbers wishing to accept their offer, whther those numbers are good or bad. Unite/BASSA don't. All they know is that turnout in their ballot was poor, with roughly one quarter of crew rejecting the offer. A little over 10% signalled they wanted Unite to accept it, leaving Unite unaware of the true feelings of the other 65%. BA, on the other hand, does know what they want. It may be good news for BA or bad, but at least they know. So, BA has full information, Unite doesn't. Familiar story, I think.
JayPee28bpr is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2010, 17:41
  #980 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 4
There below us stands the tyrant known as Willie Walsh dressed as Caesar with a gold and red and blue crown upon his brow as he opens another season of games at the Circus Maximus. Down below, quivering in anticipation of a hot and steamy end to the afternoon's entertainment huddle the martyrs. Will the emperor hesitate for one solitary second before he signals for the opening of the gates to allow the entrance of the slavering lions and tigers? Will he for one moment in the space of time attempt to halt the frenzied stampede into the ring of the bulls and the bears eager for revenge upon those poor souls? Those members of the cult of Bassa who are about to pass united into the realms of anthropomorphic history. Can any parson save them from their dreadful plight so nobly inflicted, some say in the Forum of Rome, upon themselves for believe in their own unshakeable convictions?
cavortingcheetah is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.