BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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Diplome.
You asked how many crew turned up yesterday I think it was 57% Longhaul 75% Shorthaul and 98% at Gatwick. Today at 1300 it was 58% Longhaul ( but still a large amount of LH flights to go so that could go up, or down ) Shorthaul was an astounding 88% and Gatwick 98%. Rgds hope this helps.
You asked how many crew turned up yesterday I think it was 57% Longhaul 75% Shorthaul and 98% at Gatwick. Today at 1300 it was 58% Longhaul ( but still a large amount of LH flights to go so that could go up, or down ) Shorthaul was an astounding 88% and Gatwick 98%. Rgds hope this helps.
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Curious that the profitable LH is [apparently] being under-served - but then statistics can prove almost anything! What is clear is where the "trouble" lies, and Mr Walsh simply has to address that aspect.
I was encouraged to read on the CC Thread that apparently some Volunteers are now contemplating becoming full-time CC. Clearly it is not the desperately hard life that others would like everyone else to believe [i.e. over-worked and under-paid].
PS - would it be simpler to simply concentrate on what's happening at LHR? The good BA staff at LGW and LCY have made their position clear. Focus on LHR, and the militants, and the people who are filling their jobs whilst they march around "strutting and fretting their hour upon the stage" [Shak.] would now seem appropriate.
I was encouraged to read on the CC Thread that apparently some Volunteers are now contemplating becoming full-time CC. Clearly it is not the desperately hard life that others would like everyone else to believe [i.e. over-worked and under-paid].
PS - would it be simpler to simply concentrate on what's happening at LHR? The good BA staff at LGW and LCY have made their position clear. Focus on LHR, and the militants, and the people who are filling their jobs whilst they march around "strutting and fretting their hour upon the stage" [Shak.] would now seem appropriate.
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Flew during the strike - 30th march 2010.
Flew from BOM to LHR yesterday on the day service. Full cabin crew by the looks of it. Spoke to one during the flight. She felt the union was using them for its own ends so she took the decision to work. All the staff seemed quite happy and it was a good flight / atmosphere. No hot meals or spirits but the cold meal was good and the staff were generous with all other drinks. The actual crew service was better than I have experienced before!
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Aer Lingus Cabin Crew dispute
Not sure if anyone flagged the cabin crew settlement at Aer Lingus, Willie Walsh's previous employer:
Full report here
Cabin crew at Irish airline Aer Lingus have voted 92 per cent in favour of the airline’s cost-cutting plan, dramatically reversing last month’s vote that rejected the same proposal by two to one.
After the cabin crew rejected the original €97 million (£86.6 million) cost-cutting plan, Aer Lingus management threatened to make all 1,300 of them redundant and immediately re-employ all but 230 on new contracts with reduced pay and new conditions. The 230 staff would have been made compulsorily redundant on statutory redundancy terms of two weeks pay per year of service.
The cabin crew, members of the Impact union, were the only group in the airline to reject the survival plan, despite their union recommending acceptance. The other four groups including pilots and ground handling staff accepted the plan, which includes 640 voluntary redundancies on six weeks’ pay per year of service, pay cuts of 5 to 10 per cent and new working conditions.
Bilateral talks at the Labour Relations Commission resulted in the cabin crew agreeing to re-ballot after receiving what it said were “deeper clarifications” on the plan. The airline said there had been no change to the original plan.
Aer Lingus welcomed the ballot result and said it will now implement the cost-cutting plan starting immediately with the pay cuts. The plan is designed to cut 7.5 per cent from the airline’s cost base.
After the cabin crew rejected the original €97 million (£86.6 million) cost-cutting plan, Aer Lingus management threatened to make all 1,300 of them redundant and immediately re-employ all but 230 on new contracts with reduced pay and new conditions. The 230 staff would have been made compulsorily redundant on statutory redundancy terms of two weeks pay per year of service.
The cabin crew, members of the Impact union, were the only group in the airline to reject the survival plan, despite their union recommending acceptance. The other four groups including pilots and ground handling staff accepted the plan, which includes 640 voluntary redundancies on six weeks’ pay per year of service, pay cuts of 5 to 10 per cent and new working conditions.
Bilateral talks at the Labour Relations Commission resulted in the cabin crew agreeing to re-ballot after receiving what it said were “deeper clarifications” on the plan. The airline said there had been no change to the original plan.
Aer Lingus welcomed the ballot result and said it will now implement the cost-cutting plan starting immediately with the pay cuts. The plan is designed to cut 7.5 per cent from the airline’s cost base.
Last edited by plane speak; 30th Mar 2010 at 21:21. Reason: spelling
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Possibly some similarities ??
Computer Industry style comparison
If you are running or take over a company which is suffering from previous bad/weak management and belligerent/militant trade unions, the situation you are in must be one where current working practices are very restrictive, costs/salaries are high, the company is overstaffed and the trade unions are making/interfering with management control/decisions
The only way forward is to restructure the company in all aspects - for this you need the understanding and assistance of the unions. If the only response that you receive from the unions is threats, demands, and then a strike, what are the ways forward left open to you - surrender or fight.
Regardless of the legalities, fire the striking staff, offer to rehire - but cherry pick those that are - good at their job - not militant unionists, once employed remove the restrictive working practices and increase the wages, the cost savings will pay for it, allocate an amount to meet legal costs and awards to those staff who are not re-employed. Firing the staff on strike may well be illegal - but - as the union had not attempted to help the company and the staff had decided to strike - driving the company into an even worse situation - it is unlikely that a court would have any real sympathy with the union or strikers, would take into account the improved situation of those re-employed and therefore the company. The resulting individual court cases and payments awarded would take some time, possible years and, it is unlikely that the court would award a large amount.
Cull your management team, don't use them on any union negotiation as they have already lost any authority on previous situations, promote new blood from within (if its available!), hire new human resources manager and director, appoint new 2nd and 3rd I/C. In changing management team -re-organisation of company and department structure, possibly a few early retirements, changes of responsibility, accurate performance evaluations, would take care the changes needed - all perfectly legal. Any manager that cannot give a good performance because of unions needs replacing.
In creating more efficient ways of working, also ensure that staff in each department have more responsibility for their work seeing a job through from start to finish, this gives a sense of being part of MY company, having a pride in their work, the best providing an upcoming source of supervisors and managers. Always involve the staff in discussions re any changes to their operation, invite suggestions before laying out your ideas - they may surprise you with better methods, remember, they do the job - ALWAYS share cost savings. For fairness, the following must be said -
Unions are not automatically bad, there is a place for them in providing a focal help and representation point for staff. Provided that they fully understand the company operation, its marketplace and needs, they can provide new ideas to the company and work with it to the benefit of all concerned. The problem for the last XXX years is that the majority of unions have a political agenda which is their primary objective.
NB: Labour costs are not always the biggest financial element, aircraft and airport facilities don't come cheap!!.
If you are running or take over a company which is suffering from previous bad/weak management and belligerent/militant trade unions, the situation you are in must be one where current working practices are very restrictive, costs/salaries are high, the company is overstaffed and the trade unions are making/interfering with management control/decisions
The only way forward is to restructure the company in all aspects - for this you need the understanding and assistance of the unions. If the only response that you receive from the unions is threats, demands, and then a strike, what are the ways forward left open to you - surrender or fight.
Regardless of the legalities, fire the striking staff, offer to rehire - but cherry pick those that are - good at their job - not militant unionists, once employed remove the restrictive working practices and increase the wages, the cost savings will pay for it, allocate an amount to meet legal costs and awards to those staff who are not re-employed. Firing the staff on strike may well be illegal - but - as the union had not attempted to help the company and the staff had decided to strike - driving the company into an even worse situation - it is unlikely that a court would have any real sympathy with the union or strikers, would take into account the improved situation of those re-employed and therefore the company. The resulting individual court cases and payments awarded would take some time, possible years and, it is unlikely that the court would award a large amount.
Cull your management team, don't use them on any union negotiation as they have already lost any authority on previous situations, promote new blood from within (if its available!), hire new human resources manager and director, appoint new 2nd and 3rd I/C. In changing management team -re-organisation of company and department structure, possibly a few early retirements, changes of responsibility, accurate performance evaluations, would take care the changes needed - all perfectly legal. Any manager that cannot give a good performance because of unions needs replacing.
In creating more efficient ways of working, also ensure that staff in each department have more responsibility for their work seeing a job through from start to finish, this gives a sense of being part of MY company, having a pride in their work, the best providing an upcoming source of supervisors and managers. Always involve the staff in discussions re any changes to their operation, invite suggestions before laying out your ideas - they may surprise you with better methods, remember, they do the job - ALWAYS share cost savings. For fairness, the following must be said -
Unions are not automatically bad, there is a place for them in providing a focal help and representation point for staff. Provided that they fully understand the company operation, its marketplace and needs, they can provide new ideas to the company and work with it to the benefit of all concerned. The problem for the last XXX years is that the majority of unions have a political agenda which is their primary objective.
NB: Labour costs are not always the biggest financial element, aircraft and airport facilities don't come cheap!!.
Last edited by Entaxei; 30th Mar 2010 at 17:25. Reason: spell
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MPN11,
It's the longhaul routes that the major money is earned So this IMHO, is where the largest group reaction will be. As they see they are the ones being most affected. So, I am not suprised that the stats show longhaul at 57%. LGW crew aren't interested in this strike, Shorthaul crew now also seem to be turning their backs on BASSA.
Given that shed loads of temps are being refreshed at Cranebank another to 2 Fam flights for BA volunteers yesterday ( about 80 more staff ) With the ability to provide more Longhaul crews from within BA vols ( that are increasing in size every week) plus the temps. You may see a nearly, if not full Longhaul programme next time around, should it happen. Whilst La La's troops continue to strike waive banners spew endless lies and all this without having seen the offer that was on the table.
No loss in pay.
T and C's protected.
Extra free flight.
Profit share in line with pilots.
Guaranteed 3 year pay increases.
You just couldn't make it up !!
Just popped over to this site from the airline site and hope this helps.
It's the longhaul routes that the major money is earned So this IMHO, is where the largest group reaction will be. As they see they are the ones being most affected. So, I am not suprised that the stats show longhaul at 57%. LGW crew aren't interested in this strike, Shorthaul crew now also seem to be turning their backs on BASSA.
Given that shed loads of temps are being refreshed at Cranebank another to 2 Fam flights for BA volunteers yesterday ( about 80 more staff ) With the ability to provide more Longhaul crews from within BA vols ( that are increasing in size every week) plus the temps. You may see a nearly, if not full Longhaul programme next time around, should it happen. Whilst La La's troops continue to strike waive banners spew endless lies and all this without having seen the offer that was on the table.
No loss in pay.
T and C's protected.
Extra free flight.
Profit share in line with pilots.
Guaranteed 3 year pay increases.
You just couldn't make it up !!
Just popped over to this site from the airline site and hope this helps.
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If there is a negotiated settlement between BA and Unite (unlikely at the moment) what's the money that the BASSA hierarchy try and shaft LGW and LHR EF to protect LHR WW as revenge for breaking the strike?
Last edited by LD12986; 30th Mar 2010 at 18:37.
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One of BA's public reasons for turning down BASSA's 'pay cut' (loan) was why should LGW take a cut when they are already working the one down system. So BASSA have already tried, and BA didn't go for it. If they have any sense they never will, as LGW and now EF are proving to be the loyal ones, BA needs them on side.
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@ earleyboy ... just so! We have an agreement.
The BA LH "community" are, quite justifiably, trying to defend their T&C - like the £2,000 Crew payment because the lock on the door to the CRA is broken.
I don't actually blame them for defending their T&Cs - I just wish they had done it with realism, with truth, and with some vague sense of dignity.
As BASSA has thrown all that out out of the window, My 'loyalty' is now 100% with the Company, and the good people trying to keep it afloat.
The BA LH "community" are, quite justifiably, trying to defend their T&C - like the £2,000 Crew payment because the lock on the door to the CRA is broken.
I don't actually blame them for defending their T&Cs - I just wish they had done it with realism, with truth, and with some vague sense of dignity.
As BASSA has thrown all that out out of the window, My 'loyalty' is now 100% with the Company, and the good people trying to keep it afloat.
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just an observer:
I found BASSA's treatment of Gatwick crew in that episode to be absolutely appalling.
Miamimike just made a post on the cabin crew thread that is amazing in its sense of entitlement:
First: If and when the strikers return they will have to accept that they are in the minority. Period.
Secondly: BA has shown, rather consistently of late, that they will no longer tolerate the bullying and abuse that has gone on in the past. BASSA will not be in a position to run BA.
Yes, it is enough to expect returning crew to act professionally. That's their job.
Finally...to think that the public will stay away if the strikers do not have their Staff Travel returned is simply a disconnect from reality. Read any newspaper, read forums, read comment sections...the public DO NOT support the strikers. In fact, the public would feel much more secure if these strikers were not a part of BA. Most have seen the photos, the videos, they know what many of these people are made of..and it's not pretty.
We'll see what comes out of negotiations these next few weeks but the public is hoping for a diminished role by BASSA.
I found BASSA's treatment of Gatwick crew in that episode to be absolutely appalling.
Miamimike just made a post on the cabin crew thread that is amazing in its sense of entitlement:
I have to say the pay/contractual/one crew member off situation has become a secondary issue.I stated yesterday my concerns regarding the aftermath,my primary concern.I was ridiculed by various FD and some of my posts removed.By merely suggesting the obvious ie very difficult times ahead re FD/CC relations I was politely advised to get another job/be offloaded.
As a long serving member of CC I have always held the nigels in high regard.Their action has exasperated an already highly charged divide re CC/WW.Im afraid its pure folly to say that everyone should act professionally and rise above it.Many will but many wont.Sadly Im a veteran of strikes,I know all about the aftermath.
As for the secondary aspect,WW needs to swallow his pride and put the pre-strike offer back.ST has to be re-instated,failing this customers will walk.This will be relatively simple compared to the primary problem.
As a long serving member of CC I have always held the nigels in high regard.Their action has exasperated an already highly charged divide re CC/WW.Im afraid its pure folly to say that everyone should act professionally and rise above it.Many will but many wont.Sadly Im a veteran of strikes,I know all about the aftermath.
As for the secondary aspect,WW needs to swallow his pride and put the pre-strike offer back.ST has to be re-instated,failing this customers will walk.This will be relatively simple compared to the primary problem.
Secondly: BA has shown, rather consistently of late, that they will no longer tolerate the bullying and abuse that has gone on in the past. BASSA will not be in a position to run BA.
Yes, it is enough to expect returning crew to act professionally. That's their job.
Finally...to think that the public will stay away if the strikers do not have their Staff Travel returned is simply a disconnect from reality. Read any newspaper, read forums, read comment sections...the public DO NOT support the strikers. In fact, the public would feel much more secure if these strikers were not a part of BA. Most have seen the photos, the videos, they know what many of these people are made of..and it's not pretty.
We'll see what comes out of negotiations these next few weeks but the public is hoping for a diminished role by BASSA.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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On a connected point, it seems to have gone rather quiet on the subject of an appeal by Unite following the last court case.
Other irons in the fire or have they been advised they have no chance of winning?
Other irons in the fire or have they been advised they have no chance of winning?
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MPN11.
I think dignity and truth went out the window weeks ago as far as BASSA and UNITE are concerned . The personal attacks on WW are way out of order and the march as can be seen on youtube makes me cringe... so god knows what CC feel. I am not cabin crew just a ground worker. BA CC in the main are great people who want to give our pax the service they pay for. There are some though, that do as little as possible. I have had the pleasure and displeasure of flying with both types. The pleasure element far outweighs the other in 30+ years in BA. There are some really fantastic people in CC and hopefully they will be protected when all this crap settles down.
I think dignity and truth went out the window weeks ago as far as BASSA and UNITE are concerned . The personal attacks on WW are way out of order and the march as can be seen on youtube makes me cringe... so god knows what CC feel. I am not cabin crew just a ground worker. BA CC in the main are great people who want to give our pax the service they pay for. There are some though, that do as little as possible. I have had the pleasure and displeasure of flying with both types. The pleasure element far outweighs the other in 30+ years in BA. There are some really fantastic people in CC and hopefully they will be protected when all this crap settles down.
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@ Diplome ... some are professionals, some aren't. Basically, that's the issue.
@ west lakes ... Legal advice? BASSA bluster? Unite caught between a [Labour] rock and a [BASSA] hard place? Time will tell, and I think it may possibly be on BA's side.
@ LD12986 ... your revenge point is noted. Perfectly possible, although I would guess that BA won't allow that to happen. BASSA has no power now, IMO.
@ west lakes ... Legal advice? BASSA bluster? Unite caught between a [Labour] rock and a [BASSA] hard place? Time will tell, and I think it may possibly be on BA's side.
@ LD12986 ... your revenge point is noted. Perfectly possible, although I would guess that BA won't allow that to happen. BASSA has no power now, IMO.
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Re the Aer Lingus vote
the cabin crew agreeing to re-ballot after receiving what it said were “deeper clarifications” on the plan. The airline said there had been no change to the original plan.
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Aer Lingus settlement
The Irish cabin crew union press release contrasts starkly with Unite
And according to the FT the percentage savings are far more significant than those BA wants.
IMPACT statement
FT article
The total number of ballots returned was 828 (approximately 83%). The result of the ballot was 92% in favour of the proposals, with 8% against.It is significant that this result was achieved through a joint negotiating process. Furthermore, the agreement was achieved without any recourse to, or threat of, industrial action at any stage of the negotiations.
Extensive bilateral discussions took place last week (Friday 19th March) at the Labour Relations Commission (LRC), which gave the IMPACT cabin crew negotiating team deeper clarification in a number of areas which enabled the branch to put the cost saving proposals of February 15th to another ballot of its members.
Extensive bilateral discussions took place last week (Friday 19th March) at the Labour Relations Commission (LRC), which gave the IMPACT cabin crew negotiating team deeper clarification in a number of areas which enabled the branch to put the cost saving proposals of February 15th to another ballot of its members.
Ireland’s flagship airline said it had agreed a €97m (£80m) cost-savings plan with unions, in spite of earlier objections to the deal by cabin crew members.
The agreement includes 670 voluntary redundancies, pay cuts of 5 to 10 per cent and new working conditions.
Aer Lingus said the deal amounted to cutting its cost base by 7.4 per cent, compared with the 2.6 per cent that British Airways is pressing for.
The agreement includes 670 voluntary redundancies, pay cuts of 5 to 10 per cent and new working conditions.
Aer Lingus said the deal amounted to cutting its cost base by 7.4 per cent, compared with the 2.6 per cent that British Airways is pressing for.
FT article
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I understand that some of the same spirit is showing this week, that the passengers, the pilots, and the assortment serving as cabin crew display an exceptional appreciation of each other.
If I wasn't such a nice person, I'd wonder if maybe they had deliberately booked with BA or not accepted any of the other options during the strike so they could be "victims" and dine out on the stories of how they were stranded in distant lands, thanks to the horrible nasty cabin crew, with not even a drop of water to cool their parched throats. I'd also guess that they were actually quite disappointed to find that we all turned up for work and that they even got the normal service including hot meals throughout the aircraft. But obviously, I am a nice person so I don't suspect any of that.
I don't expect passengers to curtsey as we walk past (although a few flower petals sprinkled in our path would be nice
), but a bit of understanding would be good. We had a lot of young crew on that trip who were understandably nervous about breaking the strike and a few got off the aircraft wondering if they'd done the right thing. So while I'm glad the atmosphere on many flights is good, please don't assume that's the way it is on all of them. To be honest, I'm getting a bit sick of hearing about it. And if you want to be a "victim", may I suggest you don't fly from LGW. Unless you don't like mushrooms and salmon of course....
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@jetset lady OK I promise I won't moan if I get salmon as my only option in J on my trip to UVF and I like chicken with mushrooms.
Although I have to say the seat reclining won't be problem.
Although I have to say the seat reclining won't be problem.