BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Diplome
I think its 4 flights.
eg 1st out to Singapore then layover,
2nd Singapore to Sydney then layover,
3rd Sydney to Singapore then layover,
4th Singapore to London then several days off
Regards
I think its 4 flights.
eg 1st out to Singapore then layover,
2nd Singapore to Sydney then layover,
3rd Sydney to Singapore then layover,
4th Singapore to London then several days off
Regards
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Outside the EU on a small Island
Age: 79
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the clarification, binsleepen.
Those layovers [justified, of course] certainly add to the manpower requirements, and financial cost, of operating LH. It seems to represent 4 days work and 10 days off - with BA paying salary and expenses for a lot of 'unproductive' time whilst effectively getting a 2-day working week in return. No wonder CC manpower savings are high on WW's agenda.
Those layovers [justified, of course] certainly add to the manpower requirements, and financial cost, of operating LH. It seems to represent 4 days work and 10 days off - with BA paying salary and expenses for a lot of 'unproductive' time whilst effectively getting a 2-day working week in return. No wonder CC manpower savings are high on WW's agenda.
Paxing All Over The World
As I understand it, BA would like to have OZ based crews so that the UK crews would do the LHR~SIN, layover and return. The OZ crews would work SYD~SIN, layover and return. This would greatly reduce layovers down route but this was not agreed, many years ago.
I sit to be corrected and I think that numerous carriers would like to do this, perhaps some do. It would be interesting to know.
Coincidentally, there is an identical problem - but sort of in reverse - in British railway ops. The old BR (so I suppose the new companies) wanted drivers to operate to the max of their hours then layover and work a return train the next day. But the (long standing) agreement is that they work half their hours, then turn and work back to base, so that they always get home. This can, I gather, cause waste of time as they may have to wait longer than statuary rest period at the turning point for the return service to operate back. Again, I sit to be corrected.
I sit to be corrected and I think that numerous carriers would like to do this, perhaps some do. It would be interesting to know.
Coincidentally, there is an identical problem - but sort of in reverse - in British railway ops. The old BR (so I suppose the new companies) wanted drivers to operate to the max of their hours then layover and work a return train the next day. But the (long standing) agreement is that they work half their hours, then turn and work back to base, so that they always get home. This can, I gather, cause waste of time as they may have to wait longer than statuary rest period at the turning point for the return service to operate back. Again, I sit to be corrected.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Outside the EU on a small Island
Age: 79
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Much will become clearer by mid-day on Monday.
At that stage everyone will have a better idea of how many flights BA have been able to operate. BTW, I will believe BA's figures, bacause as a plc they are not allowed to lie.
And, I am sure, BASSA will have generated additional fictional statistics which will undermine their case, the people who pay their subs to the Union, and indeed disrespect the whole of BA's good and loyal staff.
At that stage everyone will have a better idea of how many flights BA have been able to operate. BTW, I will believe BA's figures, bacause as a plc they are not allowed to lie.
And, I am sure, BASSA will have generated additional fictional statistics which will undermine their case, the people who pay their subs to the Union, and indeed disrespect the whole of BA's good and loyal staff.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 68
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I ve read quite a few comments on the CC forum about people (allegedly) having resigned their membership from Bassa.
Rather than breaking the strike through flying with volunteers and wet leases which seem to infuriate the strikers, I would suggest that resigning membership from Bassa will conclude this matter rapidly as Unite just cannot afford to loose al that income.....
But then, looking at the pro-strike vote % yet subsequent strike turn-out on strike one, it seems there are quite a few cowards amongst the cc so I guess this is not going to happen...
Rather than breaking the strike through flying with volunteers and wet leases which seem to infuriate the strikers, I would suggest that resigning membership from Bassa will conclude this matter rapidly as Unite just cannot afford to loose al that income.....
But then, looking at the pro-strike vote % yet subsequent strike turn-out on strike one, it seems there are quite a few cowards amongst the cc so I guess this is not going to happen...
Paxing All Over The World
ExSp33db1rd
This will sound harsh: 'Twas ever thus.
In the 21st century, with the Western world in decline after an unprecedented 50 years of growth and prosperity??? Whilst the company stays afloat, there will be more snips. When it gets bought out/goes under - then there is no telling what will happen but the only word is 'less' not 'the same' or 'more'.
I am not reviling you and it is your prerogative to pursue rewards that you have already earned. But there will be no re-think because the world is so utterly different from the one in which these contracts were made.
I recall saying to my father (at least ten years ago because he's been gone almost that long) that, for the best intentions that he and my mother had, the upbringing they gave my siblings and I was almost useless for the world in which we found ourselves. It was no criticism and he agreed it as a statement of fact.
But staff ought to be concerned - if BA can welch on their promises and previous inducements to those already retired, think what else they might do when THEY retire, and how they might also be so suddenly kicked in the guts.
In the 21st century, with the Western world in decline after an unprecedented 50 years of growth and prosperity??? Whilst the company stays afloat, there will be more snips. When it gets bought out/goes under - then there is no telling what will happen but the only word is 'less' not 'the same' or 'more'.
The issue has to be kept alive if there is any chance of a re-think, but I'm reviled and abused when I do that.
I recall saying to my father (at least ten years ago because he's been gone almost that long) that, for the best intentions that he and my mother had, the upbringing they gave my siblings and I was almost useless for the world in which we found ourselves. It was no criticism and he agreed it as a statement of fact.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The strike is almost over Unite appears to have failed to bring down BA
Last week I wrote the following:
"The strike is beginning to crumble as the majority of cabin crew turn up for work.
News just in from British Airways operations at both Heathrow and Gatwick conclusively demonstrates that the strike is beginning to crumble. Over 50% of cabin crew are turning up for work in defiance and as a direct challenge to the power of Unite. Pilots who had been called in to act as cabin crew are being redirected to work as pilots on the flight deck of additional services, as full cabin crew compliments are turning up for work. The atmosphere in the crew report centers is excellent with a real esprit de corps. Although it is still early to make a definite judgement on the state of the strike the signs are increasingly positive.
Cabin crew who are failing to report are being suspended indefinitely without pay and their future employment status remains uncertain. It looks like Mr Walsh is achieving a remarkable result and for this we should all be very relieved. The United Kingdom cannot afford a return to the destructive strikes of the 70s and if BA can weather this strike then this will certainly usher in a new post militant union era."
This weekend will almost certainly herald the end of the strike and the return to normal operations. Unite will not have been 'broken', whatever that means, but they will clearly have had to accept a management compiled cost saving program. The BASSA militants will have the choice of staying with BA and accept the new deal or leave.
This will herald a sea chance in industrial relations in Britain and allow those who took a more pragmatic, and dare I say realistic, approach towards company costs, prevail over the militants.
"The strike is beginning to crumble as the majority of cabin crew turn up for work.
News just in from British Airways operations at both Heathrow and Gatwick conclusively demonstrates that the strike is beginning to crumble. Over 50% of cabin crew are turning up for work in defiance and as a direct challenge to the power of Unite. Pilots who had been called in to act as cabin crew are being redirected to work as pilots on the flight deck of additional services, as full cabin crew compliments are turning up for work. The atmosphere in the crew report centers is excellent with a real esprit de corps. Although it is still early to make a definite judgement on the state of the strike the signs are increasingly positive.
Cabin crew who are failing to report are being suspended indefinitely without pay and their future employment status remains uncertain. It looks like Mr Walsh is achieving a remarkable result and for this we should all be very relieved. The United Kingdom cannot afford a return to the destructive strikes of the 70s and if BA can weather this strike then this will certainly usher in a new post militant union era."
This weekend will almost certainly herald the end of the strike and the return to normal operations. Unite will not have been 'broken', whatever that means, but they will clearly have had to accept a management compiled cost saving program. The BASSA militants will have the choice of staying with BA and accept the new deal or leave.
This will herald a sea chance in industrial relations in Britain and allow those who took a more pragmatic, and dare I say realistic, approach towards company costs, prevail over the militants.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Outside the EU on a small Island
Age: 79
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ VanHork ... i think that's unfair on several counts.
1. "Allegedly".
Some people are 'allegedly' BA CC, and posting on that Thread. There is no reason to doubt people saying they have resigned from BASSA unless YOU have evidence.
2. "Cowards".
That is a VERY strong term to use. Please remember that many/some CC were grossly misled by the Union as to what they were actually voting to strike about. I suspect many simply thought they were "sending a message to WW". Also remember that many, through ignorance or indoctrination, apparently refused to read any messages from BA and simply read what what BASSA said.
There are a lot of good people out there, trying to save their company and their jobs. Please don't disrespect them.
1. "Allegedly".
Some people are 'allegedly' BA CC, and posting on that Thread. There is no reason to doubt people saying they have resigned from BASSA unless YOU have evidence.
2. "Cowards".
That is a VERY strong term to use. Please remember that many/some CC were grossly misled by the Union as to what they were actually voting to strike about. I suspect many simply thought they were "sending a message to WW". Also remember that many, through ignorance or indoctrination, apparently refused to read any messages from BA and simply read what what BASSA said.
There are a lot of good people out there, trying to save their company and their jobs. Please don't disrespect them.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BBC News Channel
I have watched with incredulity the BBC reporter Louisa Baldini interview a member of CC. She claimed a) salary of £11k pa after 11 years, b) no sick pay, c) no holiday pay and that not all allowances were generous eg BUH, £70 for 2 days. Is Baldini gullible or was she instructed by her editor not to challenge this statement.
My take is that the CC in question is on a post 1997 contract and that she is part time. Her claim regarding sick/holiday pay is plain wrong and that meal per diems reflect the costs at destination. Thus BUH would compare unfavourably with say GVA but her money there would go a lot further.
To cap it all Baldini expressed empathy that she had come straight from her flight to be with colleagues on the picket line at Hatton X. Big deal, she probably nightstopped somewhere in Europe and operated one sector home to LHR. Hardly a hard days work by even CC standards on SH.
My take is that the CC in question is on a post 1997 contract and that she is part time. Her claim regarding sick/holiday pay is plain wrong and that meal per diems reflect the costs at destination. Thus BUH would compare unfavourably with say GVA but her money there would go a lot further.
To cap it all Baldini expressed empathy that she had come straight from her flight to be with colleagues on the picket line at Hatton X. Big deal, she probably nightstopped somewhere in Europe and operated one sector home to LHR. Hardly a hard days work by even CC standards on SH.
Last edited by TruBlu123; 27th Mar 2010 at 19:05. Reason: Spelling error
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BBC News Channel
FinnCastle84:
You are right of course. Why let facts get in the way of a good story. Makes you wonder what has happened to Lord Reiths' founding mantra - "Nation shall speak unto Nation".
Mind you I thought the piece in the Daily Mail today was most unfair to CC. These photographs were never intended to be published for all to see. Harmless high jinx like that should not be used against CC no matter how misguided many CC are about the issues in this dispute.
You are right of course. Why let facts get in the way of a good story. Makes you wonder what has happened to Lord Reiths' founding mantra - "Nation shall speak unto Nation".
Mind you I thought the piece in the Daily Mail today was most unfair to CC. These photographs were never intended to be published for all to see. Harmless high jinx like that should not be used against CC no matter how misguided many CC are about the issues in this dispute.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Outside the EU on a small Island
Age: 79
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, TruBlu and Finky ... sums up the 'balanced reporting' we expect from the Beeb, for which the people pay the licence fee.
It would have been nice if Ms Baldini [who I would
] had prepared herself for about 10 minutes by getting a faint grasp of the issues involved.
BBC? I have to pay a Sky subscription on top of my BBC Licence Fee to be able to see the cr@p they transmit, as I can't get the terrestrial signal where I live ..
[Ooops, thread drift ... sorry, folks]
It would have been nice if Ms Baldini [who I would
] had prepared herself for about 10 minutes by getting a faint grasp of the issues involved.BBC? I have to pay a Sky subscription on top of my BBC Licence Fee to be able to see the cr@p they transmit, as I can't get the terrestrial signal where I live ..
[Ooops, thread drift ... sorry, folks]
Me too!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 68
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two tone blue
Sorry about the "alleged" resignations from BA. What I mean is that i don't know it's true, although I suspect it probably is, given all the lies that Bassa have been spreading.
As to the cowards, I don't feel the need to withdraw that statement. Let me explain:
Before I do, please allow me to show my appreciation for those CC who voted NO to the strike and came to work. My respect to all those staff. More below on the good ones.
Now to the cowardice.
Many thousands of Bassa members who are now not striking voted FOR a strike. It is far too easy to say they were misled by their union (Wir haben es nicht gewusst). After all, many thousands were not misled at the same time and with identical access to information.
I would suggest those who voted FOR the strike but in the end did not strike are at the very least egoistic but more likely in many cases cowards, afraid of loosing pay or complimentary travel.
The fear is that this is the quiet militant group who strike venom in the veins of BA and will do so again whenever they can, because to them the demise of PLC BA or PLC UK is irrelevant when compared to their short moment of being "in charge" of BA. Pathetic really....
Somewhere in between will be those who genuinely voted for a strike but decided against a strike for other than egoistic reasons. To those well done as well!
I hope the BA management will win to the point that management can be allowed to manage and that the unions will have learned to look after the genuine well being of those they represent and this in the long term including allowing streamlined market conforming procedures and accepting change when it is needed for the health of the company.
Again, respect to those who keep BA flying!
As to the cowards, I don't feel the need to withdraw that statement. Let me explain:
Before I do, please allow me to show my appreciation for those CC who voted NO to the strike and came to work. My respect to all those staff. More below on the good ones.
Now to the cowardice.
Many thousands of Bassa members who are now not striking voted FOR a strike. It is far too easy to say they were misled by their union (Wir haben es nicht gewusst). After all, many thousands were not misled at the same time and with identical access to information.
I would suggest those who voted FOR the strike but in the end did not strike are at the very least egoistic but more likely in many cases cowards, afraid of loosing pay or complimentary travel.
The fear is that this is the quiet militant group who strike venom in the veins of BA and will do so again whenever they can, because to them the demise of PLC BA or PLC UK is irrelevant when compared to their short moment of being "in charge" of BA. Pathetic really....
Somewhere in between will be those who genuinely voted for a strike but decided against a strike for other than egoistic reasons. To those well done as well!
I hope the BA management will win to the point that management can be allowed to manage and that the unions will have learned to look after the genuine well being of those they represent and this in the long term including allowing streamlined market conforming procedures and accepting change when it is needed for the health of the company.
Again, respect to those who keep BA flying!
Paxing All Over The World
vanHorck
Well, here is a very good example of two people reading the same information in totally opposite directions.
My interpretation of those who voted for the strike but then decided to work is that they MIGHT (obviously, I cannot know)
I would suggest those who voted FOR the strike but in the end did not strike are at the very least egoistic but more likely in many cases cowards, afraid of loosing pay or complimentary travel.
My interpretation of those who voted for the strike but then decided to work is that they MIGHT (obviously, I cannot know)
- had the chance to consider more information than was then available to them
- discussed things further with their colleagues
- discussed things further with their families
- just had to consider the implications and the public reaction (I mean public not media)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 68
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only a few weeks ago the CC forum was full of posters crying out for the yes voters to go on strike, they were calling their bluff....
Now it s all changed. Those who voted for a strike (when thousands of other voted against it based on the same information) but decided against it are the heroes?
Anyway does it matter? The CC who had the intelligence to read up and voted against the strike were the ones who were right, they deserve A LOT of respect.
The ones who are striking in a way deserve respect too, for sticking to their beliefs, even though they have made a seriously wrong decision imho.
Both sides of the fence (hopefully without militants) will have to work together, wounds will heal, crusts will disappear, let's hope not too many scars will remain. From that point of view Paxboy, I accept your intention.
Now it s all changed. Those who voted for a strike (when thousands of other voted against it based on the same information) but decided against it are the heroes?
Anyway does it matter? The CC who had the intelligence to read up and voted against the strike were the ones who were right, they deserve A LOT of respect.
The ones who are striking in a way deserve respect too, for sticking to their beliefs, even though they have made a seriously wrong decision imho.
Both sides of the fence (hopefully without militants) will have to work together, wounds will heal, crusts will disappear, let's hope not too many scars will remain. From that point of view Paxboy, I accept your intention.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is this the best Unite could come up with for today?
How an earth would passengers be able to board a flight if there were no crew on board to man the doors?
BA: United we stand
How an earth would passengers be able to board a flight if there were no crew on board to man the doors?
BA: United we stand
15:30, 27 March 2010 - Day one of second strike
So far approximate figures show:
Long Haul Heathrow
- thought to be operating at 30% below capacity
- 60 flights planned but 22 of these are cargo only including flights to New York, Johanesburg and Hong Kong
- 6 flights were loaded with passengers then unloaded - no crew - and told to rebook
- Zone E, Terminal 5 now congested; passenger barriers brought out for first time in the dispute to manage crowds;
- tannoy announcements being made by company blaming Unite and cabin crew for the problems
- most flights flying well under capacity
- first flight to Miami, a key weekend route, cancelled
- in-bound flights now being cancelled, including LA flight
Eurofleet Heathrow
- again many grounded as BA relying on 8 other operators to carry passengers
- first 5 flights this morning - delayed because of no crew
Flights now flying with reduced crew. Heavy reliance on 700 pilots as crew.
Gatwick
- all long haul gone one crew member down
- by 9am, running out of 'volunteer' crew
Unite also announces it is seeking legal advice on legality of BA's move to deny pay to strike breakers beyond strike dates and its plans to define crew who are sick as strikers, so withdrawing their travel assistance too.
So far approximate figures show:
Long Haul Heathrow
- thought to be operating at 30% below capacity
- 60 flights planned but 22 of these are cargo only including flights to New York, Johanesburg and Hong Kong
- 6 flights were loaded with passengers then unloaded - no crew - and told to rebook
- Zone E, Terminal 5 now congested; passenger barriers brought out for first time in the dispute to manage crowds;
- tannoy announcements being made by company blaming Unite and cabin crew for the problems
- most flights flying well under capacity
- first flight to Miami, a key weekend route, cancelled
- in-bound flights now being cancelled, including LA flight
Eurofleet Heathrow
- again many grounded as BA relying on 8 other operators to carry passengers
- first 5 flights this morning - delayed because of no crew
Flights now flying with reduced crew. Heavy reliance on 700 pilots as crew.
Gatwick
- all long haul gone one crew member down
- by 9am, running out of 'volunteer' crew
Unite also announces it is seeking legal advice on legality of BA's move to deny pay to strike breakers beyond strike dates and its plans to define crew who are sick as strikers, so withdrawing their travel assistance too.