BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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Perhaps the reason that so many who voted yes to a strike are now working, is that BASSA got an improved offer in the form of 184 (I think) of the reduced crew level replaced, plus a cash bonus on the same basis the pilots would get shares, and possibly could have firmed up on the generally vague promises of continuing T&Cs (which were firmed up somewhat in the new offer immediately pre strike), but BASSA effectively refused to put it to a ballot by calling strike dates instead.
The deadline for calling strike dates had been mutually agreed between Walsh and Simpson of Unite to be extended, but by calling the strike, the whole thing came off the table, and one can't help but wonder if that was intentional, either by BASSA as they thought crew might vote in favour of it, or McLuskey who seems to have his own agenda.
The deadline for calling strike dates had been mutually agreed between Walsh and Simpson of Unite to be extended, but by calling the strike, the whole thing came off the table, and one can't help but wonder if that was intentional, either by BASSA as they thought crew might vote in favour of it, or McLuskey who seems to have his own agenda.
I'll make just a couple of observations of my own.
Firstly, the strike was always controversial. BA are losing money and are hurting badly in the current economic climate. As a result, BA have tried to negotiate, and eventually imposed changes in CC working practices. However, these are widely considered to be modest, there have been no compulsory redundancies, and no cuts in pay. Under the circumstances, a lot of CC have concluded that it would be self indulgent to support a strike which will further damage an already wounded company.
Secondly, however sorely some of the CC feel about the way BA have behaved, a lot of them recognise that it's still the best CC job in the UK airline industry, and the issues under dispute simply aren't worth losing salary, staff travel and possibly employment over. They may have voted 'Yes' but only to "send a message" to Willie Walsh; they never had any real intention of striking.
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Radeng
This is what the EU says
Upgrading and downgrading
1. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class
higher than that for which the ticket was purchased, it may not
request any supplementary payment.
2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class
lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall
within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3),
reimburse
(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1 500 kilometres
or less, or
17.2.2004 EN Official Journal of the European Union L 46/5
(b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community
flights of more than 1 500 kilometres, except flights
between the European territory of the Member States and
the French overseas departments, and for all other flights
between 1 500 and 3 500 kilometres, or
(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling
under (a) or (b), including flights between the European
territory of the Member States and the French overseas
departments.
Go get 'em, Floyd.
I would love to see them try and argue 'extraordinary' circumstances when they had considerable advance warning of the strike.
This is what the EU says
Upgrading and downgrading
1. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class
higher than that for which the ticket was purchased, it may not
request any supplementary payment.
2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class
lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall
within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3),
reimburse
(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1 500 kilometres
or less, or
17.2.2004 EN Official Journal of the European Union L 46/5
(b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community
flights of more than 1 500 kilometres, except flights
between the European territory of the Member States and
the French overseas departments, and for all other flights
between 1 500 and 3 500 kilometres, or
(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling
under (a) or (b), including flights between the European
territory of the Member States and the French overseas
departments.
Go get 'em, Floyd.
I would love to see them try and argue 'extraordinary' circumstances when they had considerable advance warning of the strike.
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So is it stalemate now in this dispute??? nothing about any of the sides meeting? in for the duration now, sad really so many have so much to lose...including me, only as a passenger though, with plans for a big family reunion in Phoenix at the end of April...we all booked a long time ago with BA, I noticed that Phoenix flights have been cancelled in both of the strike dates, well the LHR - Phoenix part, for selfish reasons I hope its settled by then, but in truth I really don't think so....
Last edited by Ruthanne; 24th Mar 2010 at 16:42. Reason: spelling
"Hatred" in the process of strikes
Where BA and CC are in the strike process.
When a group go on strike in the UK it is completely normal for that group to become very emotional towards its employer. Equally, the employer becomes very emotional towards the strikers.
Thus, all the anti-WW stuff is normal. I'm not saying it is pleasant, it is normal, as is the removal of staff travel as the employers emotional response.
However, I'm a bit worried about the staff travel issue. To get strikers back to work, one normally finds a way around issues which are important for the strikers. Staff travel is one such issue. However, to "give it back" would deeply offend the non-striking staff. How will this be resolved?
Maybe BA have no intention of ever "giving it back", and have no intention of taking the strikers back???
When a group go on strike in the UK it is completely normal for that group to become very emotional towards its employer. Equally, the employer becomes very emotional towards the strikers.
Thus, all the anti-WW stuff is normal. I'm not saying it is pleasant, it is normal, as is the removal of staff travel as the employers emotional response.
However, I'm a bit worried about the staff travel issue. To get strikers back to work, one normally finds a way around issues which are important for the strikers. Staff travel is one such issue. However, to "give it back" would deeply offend the non-striking staff. How will this be resolved?
Maybe BA have no intention of ever "giving it back", and have no intention of taking the strikers back???
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In for the long haul
Having seem the alleged e-mail from Big WW to striking CC regarding travel conseccions one suspects that he is probably rather grateful that UNITE are effectivley doing his job for him. By taking away non contractual benefits he is going to get some instant cost savings ( probably not significant). Perhaps more significantly, having lost their perks, there is now a greater likelihood that that same group of CC will not want to stay with BA post strike - unless their perks are returned ( I suspect that will form part of the next negotiation.)
The stakes look as if they will rise and either support for UNITE will collapse (my bet) or BA will back down ( I think not!).
Perhaps somewhat unfairly, Lord Peter Meddlesome, has been putting it about that BA will not be given the same protection as the UK Banks that went under - when in fact what he means is that the government could not be seen to permit its biggest funder to ruin one of the the UK's biggest businesses and international flag carrier. Thanks Mandy, at least the share price is flying! (Ok - so, its down .65% today )
The stakes look as if they will rise and either support for UNITE will collapse (my bet) or BA will back down ( I think not!).
Perhaps somewhat unfairly, Lord Peter Meddlesome, has been putting it about that BA will not be given the same protection as the UK Banks that went under - when in fact what he means is that the government could not be seen to permit its biggest funder to ruin one of the the UK's biggest businesses and international flag carrier. Thanks Mandy, at least the share price is flying! (Ok - so, its down .65% today )
Ruthanne,
I've been involved in rather too many strikes. I just can't see a decent "we'll all happily work to-gether" way through on this one.
However, I do hope that you'll be "Standing on a corner in Phoenix Arizona"* by the end of April.
(*Eagles. They changed it to Southern California in the Live version.)
I've been involved in rather too many strikes. I just can't see a decent "we'll all happily work to-gether" way through on this one.
However, I do hope that you'll be "Standing on a corner in Phoenix Arizona"* by the end of April.
(*Eagles. They changed it to Southern California in the Live version.)
Munnyspinner - you're wrong about strikers being sacked. They can all be sacked at any time. Those who claim "unfair" dismissal may or may not get some sort of payout from a Court some years down the way.
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer
To get strikers back to work, one normally finds a way around issues which are important for the strikers. Staff travel is one such issue. However, to "give it back" would deeply offend the non-striking staff. How will this be resolved?
Maybe BA have no intention of ever "giving it back", and have no intention of taking the strikers back???
Maybe BA have no intention of ever "giving it back", and have no intention of taking the strikers back???
BA, the company, is likely to have a similar view.
It may take a while longer for that hard-core element to all self select.
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3 Greens,
many thanks for that.
I'll see what i get from my last email to them.....
many thanks for that.
I'll see what i get from my last email to them.....
I would love to see them try and argue 'extraordinary' circumstances when they had considerable advance warning of the strike.
Now - this exchange should be added to the 'How to P1ss off BA's best customers' thread', as yet again BA shooting themselves in the foot. Save a penny, loose a frequent flyer.
Mind you, on the other hand, had they cancelled your flight you would only have been entitled to a refund or a reroute, compensation isn't payable for flights cancelled because of strikes. In the Regulation this is clearly an extraordinary circumstance even with considerable advance warning.
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In addition to the "alleged email from Big WW", there's an "alleged" summary of WW's message at the BA employee Forum here Post 350
Allegedly I typed this, but that's impossible to verify either
Allegedly I typed this, but that's impossible to verify either
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BASSA Admit their figures are questionable!
See Moo's post on cc tread.
On the plus side they accept that the figures they have used have not been accurate
on the negative side they dont know that BA flight numbers suffixed with 'F' are freighter flights which BA announced they did operate to position aircraft for flights that had been canx and pax moved!
Conculsion on behalf of BASSA - whats this piece of metal in my hand and why do I have a hole in my foot!
Jez, can they get anything right? Soz, stupid question!!!
On the plus side they accept that the figures they have used have not been accurate
on the negative side they dont know that BA flight numbers suffixed with 'F' are freighter flights which BA announced they did operate to position aircraft for flights that had been canx and pax moved!
Conculsion on behalf of BASSA - whats this piece of metal in my hand and why do I have a hole in my foot!
Jez, can they get anything right? Soz, stupid question!!!
That perk alone must cost BA millions
perk ? as in Company Car etc ? Airline staff are no different to many other companies who offer rebate facilities of some sort or another to their employees, but the Green Eyed Monster often conveniently forgets that !
see below ........
understood that Staff Travel was on a 'space available' basis - essentially the same as Standby. On that basis there's no real cost penalty to BA as such [BA staff use unsold seats].
Staff travel is one such issue. However, to "give it back" would deeply offend the non-striking staff. How will this be resolved?
Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 24th Mar 2010 at 22:32.
From the previously alleged letter to striking staff from W.W. ........
.
BA staff and those pensioners still granted access to S.T. are allowed to buy 'Hotline' tickets, these are basically commercial fares at a discount, around 10% I believe but can vary, and also buy these for ANY of their friends, effectively just acting as a Travel Agent, so if you want a discounted ticket just befriend a BA staff member or valid pensioner. (Staff are limited to how many times a year they can utilise this function - so get in quick )
In my day I could live anywhere I liked so long as I could report for duty as required, how I did that was entirely my affair - and my responsibilty - I haven't heard that long distance commuting staff have any new concessions, but they might have, but relying solely on a normal Staff Travel standby basis would be fraught with hazard, I would have thought, tho' boarding using S.T is often ' who you know, not what you know' but it is more computerised now and less open to blatant favouritism by those checking the tickets. ( and don't tell me it never happens/ed )
By allowing striking C.C. to retain Hotline facilities, WW is still giving them the chance to commute to work, and ...... buy tickets for their friends to help B.A. ! ( do you think they will ?? ) tho' he has removed that potential source of income from the older pensioners that he has kicked out - zilch for us.
..........You may, however, continue to benefit from discounted commercial tickets (Hotline).
I'm not completely clear how ST might affect the 'commuters' who live far, far away and fly into LHR to go to work. Is that a separate form of ST? As in "Home to Duty"? Otherwise some people's cosy living arrangements may be substantially screwed
BA staff and those pensioners still granted access to S.T. are allowed to buy 'Hotline' tickets, these are basically commercial fares at a discount, around 10% I believe but can vary, and also buy these for ANY of their friends, effectively just acting as a Travel Agent, so if you want a discounted ticket just befriend a BA staff member or valid pensioner. (Staff are limited to how many times a year they can utilise this function - so get in quick )
In my day I could live anywhere I liked so long as I could report for duty as required, how I did that was entirely my affair - and my responsibilty - I haven't heard that long distance commuting staff have any new concessions, but they might have, but relying solely on a normal Staff Travel standby basis would be fraught with hazard, I would have thought, tho' boarding using S.T is often ' who you know, not what you know' but it is more computerised now and less open to blatant favouritism by those checking the tickets. ( and don't tell me it never happens/ed )
By allowing striking C.C. to retain Hotline facilities, WW is still giving them the chance to commute to work, and ...... buy tickets for their friends to help B.A. ! ( do you think they will ?? ) tho' he has removed that potential source of income from the older pensioners that he has kicked out - zilch for us.
