Airport Security liquids Bag
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Re- Jsl's post #42.
You would feel guilty about inconveniencing and disrupting the lives of ONE load of passengers.
It's time that ALL flight personnel took a stand against these farcical, meaningless and useless regulations.
Every day, MILLIONS of productive hours are wasted in pointless queues,undergoing futile and pointless checks. A couple of days of concerted "disobedience" by aircrew ,would surely be supported by the majority of their Pax. Imagine the effect of telling the "security" jobsworth , that the entire crew and majority of Pax, were not willing to cooperate and DEMANDED that a senior manager hear their grievances and follow the procedures in a prompt,courteous and orderly fashion (provision for sitting, whilst replacing footwear, tables to repack bags, coathooks, etc also seem reasonable to demand) The disruption and exposure of the apalling treatment of paying pax would soon make a few managers fear for their cosy jobs and just maybe heed the old proverb about "biting the hand that feeds you".
The fact that would-be terrorists HAVE boarded,despite the "security" points to it's ineffectiveness. No, I don't swallow the "how many have been deterred" argument.
Any thickos would be detected by the "normal" diligence of checkin /Gate/ general Public-Facing staff....the bright ones are NOT going to be dissuaded by the present "security" charade.
I refute any suggestion that the muppets at the sharp-end of the job are too lacking in gorms to exercise discretion regarding the "clear plastic ziploc bag" issue...a rule CAN be framed, stating a preferred capacity and a suggested tolerance acceptable....jobsworth would then have his boredom alleviated by exercising his authority and discretion and getting the self-satisfied feeling of importance. Likewise, framing a set of regulations to state that the intent of the checks should NOT be to maliciously disrupt,deprive or deny any passenger or their luggage of prompt, fair and courteous service abuse of power shall result in sanctions including possible dismissal against the employee.
the spirit of the regulations can ,and should be, the same as the letter.
Our custodians of the Law, the Police-Force, exercise their discretion every day. Some would say they have a markedly superior level of intelligence and training...
You would feel guilty about inconveniencing and disrupting the lives of ONE load of passengers.
It's time that ALL flight personnel took a stand against these farcical, meaningless and useless regulations.
Every day, MILLIONS of productive hours are wasted in pointless queues,undergoing futile and pointless checks. A couple of days of concerted "disobedience" by aircrew ,would surely be supported by the majority of their Pax. Imagine the effect of telling the "security" jobsworth , that the entire crew and majority of Pax, were not willing to cooperate and DEMANDED that a senior manager hear their grievances and follow the procedures in a prompt,courteous and orderly fashion (provision for sitting, whilst replacing footwear, tables to repack bags, coathooks, etc also seem reasonable to demand) The disruption and exposure of the apalling treatment of paying pax would soon make a few managers fear for their cosy jobs and just maybe heed the old proverb about "biting the hand that feeds you".
The fact that would-be terrorists HAVE boarded,despite the "security" points to it's ineffectiveness. No, I don't swallow the "how many have been deterred" argument.
Any thickos would be detected by the "normal" diligence of checkin /Gate/ general Public-Facing staff....the bright ones are NOT going to be dissuaded by the present "security" charade.
I refute any suggestion that the muppets at the sharp-end of the job are too lacking in gorms to exercise discretion regarding the "clear plastic ziploc bag" issue...a rule CAN be framed, stating a preferred capacity and a suggested tolerance acceptable....jobsworth would then have his boredom alleviated by exercising his authority and discretion and getting the self-satisfied feeling of importance. Likewise, framing a set of regulations to state that the intent of the checks should NOT be to maliciously disrupt,deprive or deny any passenger or their luggage of prompt, fair and courteous service abuse of power shall result in sanctions including possible dismissal against the employee.
the spirit of the regulations can ,and should be, the same as the letter.
Our custodians of the Law, the Police-Force, exercise their discretion every day. Some would say they have a markedly superior level of intelligence and training...
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Our custodians of the Law, the Police-Force, exercise their discretion every day. Some would say they have a markedly superior level of intelligence and training...
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Going through Luton I was also asked to remove my watch. When I assured them that the watch would not initiate the alarm they let me through with a 'let's see' and possibly hoping for an 'I told you so.' My watch is titanium and does not set off the alarms
Just need a titanium belt buckle and I'm laughing...
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Sparrowman says
I also had my M&S bag declined at Glasgow security - was told that it had a volume of greater than 1 litre???
I have since been using SecurityWashbag
and have not had a problem at any airport so far, but don't hold me to that - you just never can tell with the muppet show who run airport security in the UK.............
My securitywashbag.com was rejected at STN one day and a week later was accepted as being OK.
There's no pleasing some folk!!
I also had my M&S bag declined at Glasgow security - was told that it had a volume of greater than 1 litre???
I have since been using SecurityWashbag
and have not had a problem at any airport so far, but don't hold me to that - you just never can tell with the muppet show who run airport security in the UK.............
My securitywashbag.com was rejected at STN one day and a week later was accepted as being OK.
There's no pleasing some folk!!
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The security guys at GRO (members of the Guardia Civil = Spanish federal police) found a sculpting tool, that's a metal rod about 5" long with rounded ends, not sharp, like a small spoon) which had slipped into the lining of my wife's handbag.
The Guardia said to her with a smile "we have no problem here with you taking this on board your flight, but they'll never let you on with it at Stansted on your return flight."
Tool was expensive (hand made) so she phoned me waiting outside GRO airport to see her plane off, I went up, Guardia brought her over to me and she handed me the tool.
Phew ! Another terrorist attack averted !
The Guardia said to her with a smile "we have no problem here with you taking this on board your flight, but they'll never let you on with it at Stansted on your return flight."
Tool was expensive (hand made) so she phoned me waiting outside GRO airport to see her plane off, I went up, Guardia brought her over to me and she handed me the tool.
Phew ! Another terrorist attack averted !
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Ok went through MAN 3 weeks ago, hand luggage only. In my bag were:
2 x small (Hotel type) shampoos
1 x disposable fag lighter
1 x tiny eye drops bottle
Oh, and a similar fag lighter in my coat pocket, which went through the scanner.
Sailed through security. I then bought an eye pencil for a lady friend. Was told this was a liquid, so it was sealed in a bag. No problem.
Returned a few days later, again no problem.
Went through MAN again last week. Same bag, with addition of empty lip gloss (to match the colour and then replace) and said eye pencil (which was also wrong colour and needed replacing - women!!)
This time bag was pulled. Lady went through it and took out the two shampoos, fag lighter, and empty lip gloss container.
Had to pay a quid for a bag to get them through.
However the eye pencil was deemed ok, and the similar fag lighter in my coat pocket, went through ok too?
Consistency anyone?
Suffice to say, reducing the hassle factor is paramount here. I have kept their pound bag. In future I will use it as it seems to placate them that you have made some effort, although not always, judging by some posts. However, it is one of their pound bags, which might help.
As a PAX I almost feel security are on a mission to catch me out for some minor infringement, rather than just look after security.
After all, if they didn't have a visible bin full of empty lip gloss tubes, fag lighters and 5% full small shampoo/cosmetics containers, how could they justify their continued employment? I don't recall seeing any grenades or guns in the 'naughty box'?
2 x small (Hotel type) shampoos
1 x disposable fag lighter
1 x tiny eye drops bottle
Oh, and a similar fag lighter in my coat pocket, which went through the scanner.
Sailed through security. I then bought an eye pencil for a lady friend. Was told this was a liquid, so it was sealed in a bag. No problem.
Returned a few days later, again no problem.
Went through MAN again last week. Same bag, with addition of empty lip gloss (to match the colour and then replace) and said eye pencil (which was also wrong colour and needed replacing - women!!)
This time bag was pulled. Lady went through it and took out the two shampoos, fag lighter, and empty lip gloss container.
Had to pay a quid for a bag to get them through.
However the eye pencil was deemed ok, and the similar fag lighter in my coat pocket, went through ok too?
Consistency anyone?
Suffice to say, reducing the hassle factor is paramount here. I have kept their pound bag. In future I will use it as it seems to placate them that you have made some effort, although not always, judging by some posts. However, it is one of their pound bags, which might help.
As a PAX I almost feel security are on a mission to catch me out for some minor infringement, rather than just look after security.
After all, if they didn't have a visible bin full of empty lip gloss tubes, fag lighters and 5% full small shampoo/cosmetics containers, how could they justify their continued employment? I don't recall seeing any grenades or guns in the 'naughty box'?
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Ah OK I see your point. I was alluding to the fact that the UK has a relatively large and young, often unemployed and angry population of muslim men from Pakistan, which in recent years has been the centre of Islamic militantism. They are not integrated and indeed do not wish to do so. They are much more religious than their parents and they are blazing with rage about what they see as our attack on Islam by being in Afgahnaistan and Iraq at all. Our last government was in utter denial until a group of supposedly British men caused carnage and murder the day after London won the 2012 Olympics.
The community's very strong links with "home" allow an easy conduit for terror into the UK itself with men and women marrying on direction allowing our enemies British passports over time. Roughly, that is why I think the ongoing terror threat is greater.
Which country's citizens hatched the bomb plot that gave us the liquid ban?
Which country was Richard Reid the shoe bomber from?
Which country was the underwear bomber on the AMS-DTW NW A330 radicalised?
The community's very strong links with "home" allow an easy conduit for terror into the UK itself with men and women marrying on direction allowing our enemies British passports over time. Roughly, that is why I think the ongoing terror threat is greater.
Which country's citizens hatched the bomb plot that gave us the liquid ban?
Which country was Richard Reid the shoe bomber from?
Which country was the underwear bomber on the AMS-DTW NW A330 radicalised?
Undoubtedly there appears to be a radical muslim faction in UK. But I suspect it's a tiny minority. Tar all UK muslims with the same brush and you get the 'knee jerk' reaction we have now. And btw I'm not Asian or muslim.
The 7/7 lot didn't target an airport or flight.
The Glasgow lot never attempted a flight but simply tried to attack the airport building.
Of your last 3 examples, for the first one, liquid checks weren't in place, the second one, I'm not sure if they were or not, and for the third one, they were in place but made no difference?
A cynic might say 'vested interests and big security contracts worth thousands of jobs', but I'm not a cynic.
Last year, at T5 as usal, I took my raincoat off, and it went through the scanner, together with my carry bag and the computer. Get into the lounge, take off raincoat and hear a dull 'clunk'. Investigate to find that a 150mL can of Malvern water, scrounged from CC on the previous trip, forgotten and not drunk, was in the raincoat pocket.
'Nuff said.
'Nuff said.
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Last year, at T5 as usal, I took my raincoat off, and it went through the scanner, together with my carry bag and the computer. Get into the lounge, take off raincoat and hear a dull 'clunk'. Investigate to find that a 150mL can of Malvern water, scrounged from CC on the previous trip, forgotten and not drunk, was in the raincoat pocket.
'Nuff said.
'Nuff said.
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Best yet?
came through ZRH today, en route FCO to MAN.
Bag pulled up. Major problem. Zippo petrol fag lighter.
Had to empty all the cotton wool out. With a provided bent screwdriver.
I give up!!
Checked bag next time. Had enough.
Bag pulled up. Major problem. Zippo petrol fag lighter.
Had to empty all the cotton wool out. With a provided bent screwdriver.
I give up!!
Checked bag next time. Had enough.
I was under the impressions that Zippo/refillable lighters are banned under the DG regs for carriage onboard, has that changed?
Think you guys have it bad, try being crew going through MAN... I duly had all my liquids in the required baggie, however it broke in my bag and as I was going through the checkpoint I explained to them what had happened and could I please get a replacement. They handed it over, I put the stuff in, went through. Then had to wait while my bag sat on the side while all the others went through, only then did they bring my bag over and ask me if I had any liquids in it. Not that I can think of, I said, I put them in the bag. "What's this then?" (holding up a mini size clear nail polish) It had fallen out of the baggie when it broke and lodged itself inside my aircraft manual (ring binder) They way they reacted you'd think it was an IED!!!! Got frisked up, name taken down and email sent to my boss.
When I politely asked if they also record the names and details of passengers mistakely in breach of the rules I might as well have asked to eat their firstborn!!! They have no ability to distinguish between a genuine mistake. I get that someone could feign so to get something through, but mate, I have access to far more effective items than clear nail polish if I were someone that wanted to cause some fuss. They just don't seem to understand this.
And FYI I am still very ticked off that one of your staff felt the need to go up my dress during a 'search' without any warning whatsoever!!!!
No idea how to lodge a complaint and anyway since then lost the notebook which I wrote down said persons' details....
Think you guys have it bad, try being crew going through MAN... I duly had all my liquids in the required baggie, however it broke in my bag and as I was going through the checkpoint I explained to them what had happened and could I please get a replacement. They handed it over, I put the stuff in, went through. Then had to wait while my bag sat on the side while all the others went through, only then did they bring my bag over and ask me if I had any liquids in it. Not that I can think of, I said, I put them in the bag. "What's this then?" (holding up a mini size clear nail polish) It had fallen out of the baggie when it broke and lodged itself inside my aircraft manual (ring binder) They way they reacted you'd think it was an IED!!!! Got frisked up, name taken down and email sent to my boss.
When I politely asked if they also record the names and details of passengers mistakely in breach of the rules I might as well have asked to eat their firstborn!!! They have no ability to distinguish between a genuine mistake. I get that someone could feign so to get something through, but mate, I have access to far more effective items than clear nail polish if I were someone that wanted to cause some fuss. They just don't seem to understand this.
And FYI I am still very ticked off that one of your staff felt the need to go up my dress during a 'search' without any warning whatsoever!!!!
No idea how to lodge a complaint and anyway since then lost the notebook which I wrote down said persons' details....
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On the horizon
A new generation of scanners could end the 100ml restriction on carry-on liquids, but will they affect security queues too?
Having passed the Department of Transport's trials, the new X-ray devices, which can detect explosive properties in liquids, will be installed in all British airports and across Europe by 29 April 2013. While passengers will still have to remove liquids for inspection, they will no longer have to comply with the 100ml restriction.
Department of Transport has approved a new generation of airport scanners that will allow passengers to carry containers of fluid larger than 100ml. It's frustrating when you have to buy expensive drinks in the departure lounge or throw away toiletries that you had forgotten to remove.”
The ban has been seen as a huge inconvenience to travellers as they pass through security; 20 household bins full of confiscated items are thrown away daily at London Stansted alone. Seized items range from expensive perfumes to bottled water and champagne.
Having passed the Department of Transport's trials, the new X-ray devices, which can detect explosive properties in liquids, will be installed in all British airports and across Europe by 29 April 2013. While passengers will still have to remove liquids for inspection, they will no longer have to comply with the 100ml restriction.
Department of Transport has approved a new generation of airport scanners that will allow passengers to carry containers of fluid larger than 100ml. It's frustrating when you have to buy expensive drinks in the departure lounge or throw away toiletries that you had forgotten to remove.”
The ban has been seen as a huge inconvenience to travellers as they pass through security; 20 household bins full of confiscated items are thrown away daily at London Stansted alone. Seized items range from expensive perfumes to bottled water and champagne.
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This is what happens when the combined stupidity of the travelling public is pitted against the pointless regulations and the army of knuckle draggers who enforce them with varying degrees of consistency and boorishness.
That said, the regulations are clear in most respects and I have no sympathy for people who try to go through with full 750ml or litres bottles/containers of liquid.
That said, the regulations are clear in most respects and I have no sympathy for people who try to go through with full 750ml or litres bottles/containers of liquid.
If the flight crews did disrupt matters (and JSL, it's going to be the only way) AND the airlines backed them and sued the airports, with LOTS of publicity, we might get somewhere. Until then, no hope....Interestingly, they never ask for my insulin pen and possibly as much as 6mL of insulin to go in a plastic bag.
I doubt you could get away with a pharmacy label on a bottle of champagne though......imagine the label "XYZ Pharmacy, Mr Radeng, 18.75 cL every 30 minutes"
I doubt you could get away with a pharmacy label on a bottle of champagne though......imagine the label "XYZ Pharmacy, Mr Radeng, 18.75 cL every 30 minutes"
Last edited by radeng; 4th Sep 2012 at 16:03. Reason: wrong abbreviation
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Last time I went through BRS I saw a shop employee pulling a pallet of bottled water bottles. It was cling rapped in plastic through which you could see shipping labels. What are the chances that liquid was checked?
Same trip the guy ahead of me at security had a 12" wrench taken from him. Oh, sir, you could hit somebody over the head with that. I recalled that comment as I walked through the DF shop and observed hundreds of similar weapons. Made of heavy glass, many of which had a perfect handle for doing the nasty. Canes of elderly passengers seem to be OK, but woe betide you if you've got a pool cue.
It's theatre, and not very good theatre at that. To be honest it doesn't make me feel secure and the holes obvious to me certainly must be obvious to the black hats.
Same trip the guy ahead of me at security had a 12" wrench taken from him. Oh, sir, you could hit somebody over the head with that. I recalled that comment as I walked through the DF shop and observed hundreds of similar weapons. Made of heavy glass, many of which had a perfect handle for doing the nasty. Canes of elderly passengers seem to be OK, but woe betide you if you've got a pool cue.
It's theatre, and not very good theatre at that. To be honest it doesn't make me feel secure and the holes obvious to me certainly must be obvious to the black hats.
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At ZRH, one used to be able to buy Swiss Army knives airside. Presumably if bought airside, they are no use as a weapon? I believe this is no longer the case.
