BA posts record loss
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BA posts record loss
I cannot say that I am particularly surprised.
BA slumps to record loss as strikes loom - Telegraph
The company really needs to realise that many if it's once loyal customer base have discovered that better value is available elsewhere and do something to get them back.
PAXBoy has posted in the past that he believes that BA is in slow terminal decline and it is hard to argue with him.
Surely Walsh cannot have long left?
BA slumps to record loss as strikes loom - Telegraph
The company really needs to realise that many if it's once loyal customer base have discovered that better value is available elsewhere and do something to get them back.
PAXBoy has posted in the past that he believes that BA is in slow terminal decline and it is hard to argue with him.
Surely Walsh cannot have long left?
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I'm in two minds with BA
I have always enjoyed excellent ground and onboard treatment and respect the crews highly but think the management, particularly senior management are complete nitwits with no idea of how to treat customers ( or their own staff come to that) and particularly loyal customers that combined give them a reasonable income stream. Very shortsighted
So, feel sorry for the crew that work hard but BA deserve these losses. Treat your customers like c**p and they will go elsewhere.
I have always enjoyed excellent ground and onboard treatment and respect the crews highly but think the management, particularly senior management are complete nitwits with no idea of how to treat customers ( or their own staff come to that) and particularly loyal customers that combined give them a reasonable income stream. Very shortsighted
So, feel sorry for the crew that work hard but BA deserve these losses. Treat your customers like c**p and they will go elsewhere.
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Yes basically. Making it look like their balance sheet is stronger than it really is by creative accounting. The company is only looking as good as they are (and that's absolute rubbish) by fiddling their pension fund liabilities. They even had to 'borrow' money off their pension fund recently to boost their balance sheet. I think accountants get a bad wrap from people on here, they get blamed for driving the company into loco service levels, but the crew wouldn't have jobs if the accountants didn't control costs.
As the crew costs appear untouchable due to militancy from top to bottom then the only costs the accountants can really cut are ones which affect service levels. And this is where we find ourselves.
Company needs liquidating to release LHR for the new breed of airline which will give customers decent service for decent fares.
As the crew costs appear untouchable due to militancy from top to bottom then the only costs the accountants can really cut are ones which affect service levels. And this is where we find ourselves.
Company needs liquidating to release LHR for the new breed of airline which will give customers decent service for decent fares.
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Perfect news for Willie.
He now has the green light to take on the unions and sort out, as perceived by industry analysts, an overpaid, underperforming workforce when compared to others in the industry. I don't know what low cost carriers pay but allegedly, with VS crew on £15kpa and BA crew earning from £25-60kpa, there does appear to be an issue. As an analyst said on Radio 4 this morning, a strike costing £10-20m over Christmas will not be seen as a problem by investors...so long as the issues get dealt with once and for all.
He now has the green light to take on the unions and sort out, as perceived by industry analysts, an overpaid, underperforming workforce when compared to others in the industry. I don't know what low cost carriers pay but allegedly, with VS crew on £15kpa and BA crew earning from £25-60kpa, there does appear to be an issue. As an analyst said on Radio 4 this morning, a strike costing £10-20m over Christmas will not be seen as a problem by investors...so long as the issues get dealt with once and for all.
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Originally Posted by Scumbag O'Riley
Company needs liquidating to release LHR for the new breed of airline which will give customers decent service for decent fares.
The fundamental problem is that many passengers these days demand ever-lower fares, measured in pennies rather than pounds, and are prepared to accept an abysmal level of customer service to get them. As a result, legacy airlines are forced to lower their fares to match those of the locos (which they do - BA and other major airlines are often cheaper than the low-cost airlines on routes and dates that people actually want to travel) even though their cost base is significantly higher.
This is the new reality, and it presents a challenge that all legacy airlines must face.
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seems like a downward spiral to me - one of the key points stated is that they will cut costs by 'reducing the number of cabin crew on flights' - that to me certainly indicates that standard/quality of in flight service will fall by default (and in my recent experience BA's in flight service isn't that great overall anyway) - so they will no doubt soon be providing a product that is perceived by the customer to be of a lesser standard than before and in many ways a lesser standard that is bettered by other carriers including some LCC's in my experience - way to go BA...not!
PS. BA lost my loyalty some 5 years ago when they moved their European service/product model to a LCC product...after that they are just another carrier in a market with other operators with better overall product and leaner costs...
PS. BA lost my loyalty some 5 years ago when they moved their European service/product model to a LCC product...after that they are just another carrier in a market with other operators with better overall product and leaner costs...
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The fundamental problem is that many passengers these days demand ever-lower fares, measured in pennies rather than pounds, and are prepared to accept an abysmal level of customer service to get them. As a result, legacy airlines are forced to lower their fares to match those of the locos (which they do - BA and other major airlines are often cheaper than the low-cost airlines on routes and dates that people actually want to travel) even though their cost base is significantly higher.
This is the new reality, and it presents a challenge that all legacy airlines must face.
This is the new reality, and it presents a challenge that all legacy airlines must face.
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Post of the week - nail hit firmly on head
And also Lufthansa group announced an operating profit for Q3.
I therefore believe that the problems are somewhat deeper than Rusland 17 opines.
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Sorry to disagree with the prophets of doom. We've flown BA long haul for many years & have always had excellent service & I'm sure this will continue. The unions want to continue with outdated practices which have no place in the modern world of aviation. The crew reduction on the 74s is to reduce by 1 CC & ask the CSD to help with the service. Surely not too much to ask.
I doubt they will have the heart or the stupidity to strike, particularly after the High Court ruling yesterday. I hope I'm right as we're booked on BA59 LHR-CPT 23 Dec.
The unions want to continue with outdated practices which have no place in the modern world of aviation. The crew reduction on the 74s is to reduce by 1 CC & ask the CSD to help with the service. Surely not too much to ask.I doubt they will have the heart or the stupidity to strike, particularly after the High Court ruling yesterday. I hope I'm right as we're booked on BA59 LHR-CPT 23 Dec.
In my experience, BA still provides a better than "decent" level of service for decent fares.
The fundamental problem is that many passengers these days demand ever-lower fares, measured in pennies rather than pounds, and are prepared to accept an abysmal level of customer service to get them. As a result, legacy airlines are forced to lower their fares to match those of the locos (which they do - BA and other major airlines are often cheaper than the low-cost airlines on routes and dates that people actually want to travel) even though their cost base is significantly higher.
The fundamental problem is that many passengers these days demand ever-lower fares, measured in pennies rather than pounds, and are prepared to accept an abysmal level of customer service to get them. As a result, legacy airlines are forced to lower their fares to match those of the locos (which they do - BA and other major airlines are often cheaper than the low-cost airlines on routes and dates that people actually want to travel) even though their cost base is significantly higher.
You credit people with looking at lots of airlines for lower fares but then state well Legacy carriers will have cheap fares on the days that the people really need to fly and they just won't book with us.
The oft used mantra of better customer service didn't show up when thousands of people got abandoned on a couple of Augusts or bags getting left at Heathrow at Christmas or T5 fiasco.
BA does some things well and others lets say not so well BUT it doesn't do everything at a consistent high level that would persuade enough people to still fly with them .
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And also Lufthansa group announced an operating profit for Q3.
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I find it laughable that someone would use Lufty as an example of why the lo-co's aren't affecting BA's profits
I cited Lufthansa to show that a legacy airline can make an operating profit in hard times.
LH is also subject to low cost competition on shorthaul and operates a global network, like BA, with premium traffic part of the mix, like BA.
Therefore, would you like to explain why it is not a valid comparison?
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Yes, the point went well over the head Fargoo is banging 
A very quick scan of LH's most recent financial statements suggests that the airline part of their business is just as knackered as BA, in fact it looks like BA are cuttings costs better than LH. LH appears to have its fingers in a few other pies and that has helped them make money.
Who knows what BMI will bring to the party, seems like LH is going to pare them to the bone, and BA is talking about buying up their slots. What a joke
A very quick scan of LH's most recent financial statements suggests that the airline part of their business is just as knackered as BA, in fact it looks like BA are cuttings costs better than LH. LH appears to have its fingers in a few other pies and that has helped them make money.
Who knows what BMI will bring to the party, seems like LH is going to pare them to the bone, and BA is talking about buying up their slots. What a joke
Paxing All Over The World
Prophet of Doom Speaking ...
One of the curious things that I have observed about companies on their last legs is that, many, many folks think that they are doing fine.
Banks are 'solvent' until the day they go bust, even though the harbingers are all visible to those that look. Woolworths retail chain in the UK went bust a year ago and thousands were surprised. I am no expert but I had been expecting it for ten years. Marks & Spencer were very close to the line a few years ago but have pulled back by concentrating on food, an area in which they have only one significant competitor (Waitrose) but the rest of their main operation is still in line for the end of it's life.
The nature of Boards of directors and similar is that they keep on thinking "We can pull this round" until it is categorically proved to them that they cannot. If WW goes there will be yet another bright and thrusting male who says "I can pull BA round" but he won't be able to.
Many companies would do better by themselves, their shareholders and staff if they admitted defeat and sold whilst still trading. The greatest majority don't and the company goes Splat, folks lose money and jobs.
Want an example of a REALLY clever airline owner who manouevered all the way down the line and then sold at the right moment of his choice? Sir Michael Bishop at BMI.
For the record, I am not a BA shareholder, nor have I ever worked for them. I have been a HIGHLY satisfied customer of them but they are no longer my first choice of LH carrier and have not been since the disgraceful dirty tricks campaign. In the air, the staff are top class.
I repeat that I do not know the timescale of BA's close but, they will not exist in their present form, management and owneship within ten years.
One of the curious things that I have observed about companies on their last legs is that, many, many folks think that they are doing fine.
Banks are 'solvent' until the day they go bust, even though the harbingers are all visible to those that look. Woolworths retail chain in the UK went bust a year ago and thousands were surprised. I am no expert but I had been expecting it for ten years. Marks & Spencer were very close to the line a few years ago but have pulled back by concentrating on food, an area in which they have only one significant competitor (Waitrose) but the rest of their main operation is still in line for the end of it's life.
The nature of Boards of directors and similar is that they keep on thinking "We can pull this round" until it is categorically proved to them that they cannot. If WW goes there will be yet another bright and thrusting male who says "I can pull BA round" but he won't be able to.
Many companies would do better by themselves, their shareholders and staff if they admitted defeat and sold whilst still trading. The greatest majority don't and the company goes Splat, folks lose money and jobs.
Want an example of a REALLY clever airline owner who manouevered all the way down the line and then sold at the right moment of his choice? Sir Michael Bishop at BMI.
For the record, I am not a BA shareholder, nor have I ever worked for them. I have been a HIGHLY satisfied customer of them but they are no longer my first choice of LH carrier and have not been since the disgraceful dirty tricks campaign. In the air, the staff are top class.
I repeat that I do not know the timescale of BA's close but, they will not exist in their present form, management and owneship within ten years.
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I'm not saying it's not a good company to use as comparison, only that things aren't all rosy in Luftys' garden either
As I see it, the LoCo's have it nailed when it comes to what passengers want for a short trip - we certainly don't. I agree with you both that some more drastic action is needed and definately don't have my head in the sand where that is concerned.
I am however totally against liquidating a 40000+ peoples jobs just to "free up" LHR for the LoCo's. It's a competetive business, those that aren't up to it go under those that are thrive. I just hope that BA survive for very selfish reasons.
No doubt if I didn't work for them I might see things slightly differently
As I see it, the LoCo's have it nailed when it comes to what passengers want for a short trip - we certainly don't. I agree with you both that some more drastic action is needed and definately don't have my head in the sand where that is concerned.
I am however totally against liquidating a 40000+ peoples jobs just to "free up" LHR for the LoCo's. It's a competetive business, those that aren't up to it go under those that are thrive. I just hope that BA survive for very selfish reasons.
No doubt if I didn't work for them I might see things slightly differently
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I repeat that I do not know the timescale of BA's close but, they will not exist in their present form, management and owneship within ten years.