BA posts record loss

[PAXboy]

I think the legacy airlines have an impossible task.

1. Not enough people wil pay for old style service
2. Cosy deals between govts to maintain fares are long gone
3. Short haul is a lost cause other than as feeder and that's going too
4. Staffing contracts made 20/30/40 years ago are unsustainable
5. Pension contracts made 20/30/40 years ago are unsustainable
6. Demands for green taxes

In the UK, no one wants to pay for anything! People want to have European style health care and benefits - but don't want to pay the taxes for it. The airlines have no where to run to except to slim down and start the consolidation process. BUT that is being actively prevented by govts who want to retain 'national' carriers, even if PLCs. There is still a mirage (pun intended!) of gloss and swank about airlines. As we all know, the big shipping companies came to an end and so will the big airlines. The govts all tried to hold on to car companies (for fairly sound economic reasons) and yet they have still fallen apart and moved East.

As I have said before, we shall land up with a few international groups that have sub-contracted/owned service companies. These groups will be called:

• One World
• Star Alliance
• Sky Team
• etc.

But govts will not permit the companies to move towards this in a structured manner so as to retain as many jobs as poissible and cause as little loss of investment as possible. This consolidation will only happen once the majors start to tumble and there is no alternative. Then it will be thrown together and a lot of people thrown out of work. The govts will then try and take the credit for 'saving' jobs when they could have started the move eight years ago. But no one gets rewarded for preventing a disaster, only for clearing up the mess afterwards.

[BMEDFO]

BA is loosing £16.50 for every passenger it carries. No wonder Willie Walsh wants to take drastic action!

[teddybear44]

Just Mr Average SLF

As an infrequent flyer (three / four times a year) and one who mainly flies for leisure and therefore foots the bill from my only slightly above average earnings in the S.E. England, I base my choice of carrier on the following:

1. Safety record
2. Convienent point of Departure
3. Service level on board
4. Availability of a reasonable fare

I am prepared to pay a reasonable preminum for safe and comfortable transportation of myself and my family from A to B based on my own perceptions of who can best satisfy my requirements. I prefer to choose a full service carrier as opposed to a low cost operator. I recently flew from LGW to CAG with my family and thoroughly enjoyed not only the BA flight but the airport experience in the North Terminal at LGW, where we had a nice family breakfast before we left. Crew were excellent.

There are more of us around than many think, on modest earnings who are capable of making informed choices and prioritising. Even now, with the prospect of IA on BA around winter, I have some idea of approx periods to avoid based on keeping up with current affairs. I might even pick up a bargain !

If the major legacy carriers (including BA) can keep it together and give the appearance of running smoothly with a decent product, then that will be where I put my dosh when travelling.

Sorry, but I still like to enjoy my day out flying and I want my kids to as well. I'll pay for the smiles !!

Ted

[jethrobee]

I personally think BA need to sort out the identity, at the moment they are trying to offer both a premium service up the front which many people (myself included) sign up to.

The problem is that they are also trying to compete with the Loco's down the back, this is a having cake and eating it scenario.

You cant get away with charging premium fares for a premium service and then trying to skimp up there to save the money. The real things they need to be looking at are the ratios of premium pax, and protecting and differentiating that from rivals.

Most of the pax who fly down the back are wanting a premium service for a low cost fare. They also need to realise that if you pay a low cost fare then you get the same levels of extra charges on BA as you do on a low cost carrier.

[teddybear44]

Flew last week LHR-AMS-LHR on BD. No meal and beverages had to be purchased but still preferred this option rather than trek to STN to potentially save a few quid on RYR. I did not purchase any beverages but would not have begrudged it if I felt the need. 2 nights in a 3 star hotel and return flight package about 190GBP purchased a little while in advance. Guessing the airfare was a pretty good deal. Take that every time !

Went LHR-GLA-LHR a week earlier on BA. Hot breakfast served but it would not have bothered me if it was only coffee / tea as only just over 1 hour. Busy flight, elbows in. Some pax declined the hot breakfast.

[Final 3 Greens]

You cant get away with charging premium fares for a premium service and then trying to skimp up there to save the money. The real things they need to be looking at are the ratios of premium pax, and protecting and differentiating that from rivals.

This analysis is spot on.

I made two return trips to Riyadh recently, from London, with BA, then Swiss and will compare the BA trip to the medium haul legs of the Swiss experience.

Both aircraft cabins were immaculate, the BA NCW seats were in a different league to the Swiss business (on an A330-200, a fleet now being replaced.)

Apart from that, the Swiss experience was better in nearly every respect

- food (BA didn't serve a light meal towards the end of a 6 hour 30 minute sector, Swiss did on a 5 hour sector) Swiss served up very tasty meals, BA's were okay (not bad, but a little tasteless)

- service, after the service, I literally didn't see a crew member for the next 3 hours and had to use the call bell for service, whereas on Swiss, the cabin was continuously and discretely 'patrolled' by a CC member, who didn't disturb you, but was there in a flash if you looked across at them

I would acknowledge that I don't use entertainment systems, so BA's may be better than Swiss's, but it is not an important factor to me.

If I was taking a 10 hour flight, I would choose the BA seat over the Swiss offer, but then again Swiss would be serving up a 340 or 330-300 with flat seats, which woud suit me as well as NCW, as I sleep easily on aircraft and anything remotely flat will do.

In every other respect, I would choose Swiss and especially in the light of BA's track record of threatened industrial action over the past few years.

[Scumbag O'Riley]

The real things they need to be looking at are the ratios of premium pax, and protecting and differentiating that from rivals.

Yeah, what would be best for us long suffering passengers in general would be for BA to quit whining and bite the bullet and downsize to a premium only airline. This would get them out of the low end market which they hardly like being in and are obviously incapable of competing in anymore and release a large number of LHR slots for new airlines to take advantage of. Low end passenger gets the loco service which they want and which there is obviously a huge market for. Suspect with BA out of the way the economy class market would be less distorted and new entrants would be more likely to take the punt on setting up long haul loco service. End result superior service and choice for both the business passenger and the economy passenger, and that is what this forum is about, innit?

It will never happen willingly as they want the slots. Lose the slots to effective competition and they are well and truly up the creek.

[PAXboy]

Indeed it won't happen. CEOs and Main Board directors do not vote themselves out (I would guess that less than 1% do so). The inclination of male human beings is to make something bigger than the next man and make more money than the next man. They will pursue ANY policy - even if it means they lose everything. They will take the risk of making more money and, when the company goes Splat and gets taken over - they blame everyone else.

Sorry to be cynical but I've worked in commerce and local govt for 30 years, as well as being a citizen of western europe ...

[jethrobee]

I agree, I cant see it happening, but I do wish they would find a better way to let the people who want low cost have low cost, while protecting the premium brand up the front.

I have been a gold card holder with BA for 10 years, I just hate what is happening to this airline.

Why do I fly BA? Well, in my opinion the premium service (seats, crew etc) are better than others on the routes I fly. I also have a gold card with Virgin and Air France. Air France really are a last resort. I do like virgin a lot, but they dont have the same coverage as BA and are actually more expensive on many bookings I make.

The thing that annoys me most with BA is that they are starting to cut cost in the premium cabins, food on my last trip back from Boston was absolutely shocking as I posted here. I am flying Cathay down to Oz in a couple of weeks, and then giving BA another chance to Boston the week after.