Fly MayBe - wot a shower
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I've been away for a few days and thus neither seen nor commented further on this thread. It seems my remarks (posting no 50) upset a couple of people, apparently those who, as others have pointed out, have little notion of the concept of customer satisfaction and retention, particularly in these hard times.
I try to see this from the perspective of both an (ex-)airline employee and a passenger, and often the two perspectives are mutually incompatible.
I've worked for several airlines and done just about everything except flying the 'planes and screwing them together (unless putting chewing gum on a leaking fuel line counts!). My approach and that which I instilled to those around me was that we would give the customer what he/she wanted as long as he/she was reasonable and polite, and it would not cost us (too much - and of course that's hard to define) money. If we couldn't solve a problem we'd explain why and not just refuse.
As for Jaycee46's last response, I'm fully in agreement. I do most of my domestic travelling in UK and Europe by train. It's often more expensive than flying, but is generally more pleasant and can be more cost effective. Flying is rarely ever pleasant, or to put it more precisely, the airport experience generally detracts from any pleasure that the flying itself might give. I also find that the amount of time that one spends at, and getting to and from, airports, is disproportionate to that spent flying, and the shorter the flight is the greater that imbalance becomes.
I try to see this from the perspective of both an (ex-)airline employee and a passenger, and often the two perspectives are mutually incompatible.
I've worked for several airlines and done just about everything except flying the 'planes and screwing them together (unless putting chewing gum on a leaking fuel line counts!). My approach and that which I instilled to those around me was that we would give the customer what he/she wanted as long as he/she was reasonable and polite, and it would not cost us (too much - and of course that's hard to define) money. If we couldn't solve a problem we'd explain why and not just refuse.
As for Jaycee46's last response, I'm fully in agreement. I do most of my domestic travelling in UK and Europe by train. It's often more expensive than flying, but is generally more pleasant and can be more cost effective. Flying is rarely ever pleasant, or to put it more precisely, the airport experience generally detracts from any pleasure that the flying itself might give. I also find that the amount of time that one spends at, and getting to and from, airports, is disproportionate to that spent flying, and the shorter the flight is the greater that imbalance becomes.
Shining Example, apparently...
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Aha - I'm starting to see why Capetonian is struggling to 'get it' in a contemporary context:
Sounds like you'd no idea of the profit margin for each ticket, nor a given budget for issues resolution. Uncontrolled operational expenses are an excellent way to bankrupt a company.
Of course, explaining why a request has been declined is elementary customer service. In practice, many customers are too piqued to listen to the explanation (even though it'd be far less blunt than "We offered you a flexible ticket but you declined. Now you want it for free.") but if an airline agent doesn't try, this is indeed a problem. Finally:
This would be exceptionally dangerous, and a threat to the safety of the aircraft. Please tell us you weren't serious? 
We would give the customer what he/she wanted as long as he/she was reasonable and polite, and it would not cost us (too much - and of course that's hard to define) money. If we couldn't solve a problem we'd explain why and not just refuse.
Of course, explaining why a request has been declined is elementary customer service. In practice, many customers are too piqued to listen to the explanation (even though it'd be far less blunt than "We offered you a flexible ticket but you declined. Now you want it for free.") but if an airline agent doesn't try, this is indeed a problem. Finally:
putting chewing gum on a leaking fuel line
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Sounds like you'd no idea of the profit margin for each ticket, nor a given budget for issues resolution. Uncontrolled operational expenses are an excellent way to bankrupt a company.
putting chewing gum on a leaking fuel line
One of the reasons I left that airline was because it had dodgy practices in all areas. I could write a book about it.
Shining Example, apparently...
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Wrong, (sic) there you go again with your assumptions
"Don't ask me to tell you what airline it was" I didn't. "because I won't" Good for you. "but I am serious" Really? "and was told that chewing gum freezes rock solid and is as good as Araldite."
What about operating conditions above freezing point? Physical reactions are one aspect, but what about the chemical interactions between fuel and the gum? Or, for that matter, Araldite?
"dodgy practices in all areas" would be a whole new conversation, and I'm be curious to learn how unscrupulous operators could be reported to the relevant authorities. In my outfit, anyone who made/approved a substandard repair to a prime mover would be terminated for negligence, and fast.
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Flybe=Maybe=shower=100%
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the original poster's complaint, Flybe/Maybe is probably only slightly above Ryanair in my opinion. (regular flyer avg 70 flts a year so well able to voice an opinion)
How about £55.00 for a so called 'free flight'?
How about cancelling flights and leaving the punters to rebook, maybe days later?
Loads of hidden fees
On their website lots of 'optional'extras boxes ticked so you really have to take care to untick all the 'optional' extras.
I would be very pleased to see Flybe go bust.
How about £55.00 for a so called 'free flight'?
How about cancelling flights and leaving the punters to rebook, maybe days later?
Loads of hidden fees
On their website lots of 'optional'extras boxes ticked so you really have to take care to untick all the 'optional' extras.
I would be very pleased to see Flybe go bust.
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Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Well I have to say I have just flown Flybe as a (critical) regular passenger. I would say it was a superb experience. I took what handbaggage I required (free). I had the option to opt out of paying for hold baggage. The flight was exemplary in absolutely superb latest equipment (Embraer 195 or something)- a really super aeroplane with 2/2 seating. They gave what they promised. I didn't expect them to supply what I had not purchased for nothing on pain of throwing a public tantrum! Deal.
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Crepello
I do disagree with you, mainly because you seem to spend most of your time on this forum in combat mode simply contradicting others with semantics and word play. It's not constructive and I'm not getting into it.
You're not going to get 'my side' of it because it's nobody's business except mine and that of my ex-employer at the time.
As for the Araldite/chewing gum story, I'm not a technician, it wasn't proposed or implemented by me, I was simply a witness to what seemed to me to be an appalling breach of safety and common sense.
I do disagree with you, mainly because you seem to spend most of your time on this forum in combat mode simply contradicting others with semantics and word play. It's not constructive and I'm not getting into it.
You're not going to get 'my side' of it because it's nobody's business except mine and that of my ex-employer at the time.
As for the Araldite/chewing gum story, I'm not a technician, it wasn't proposed or implemented by me, I was simply a witness to what seemed to me to be an appalling breach of safety and common sense.
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Radiosutch,
Thankyou for wishing unemployment on me and my 6000 colleagues because you have trouble unticking a few boxes on a website.
Thankyou for wishing unemployment on me and my 6000 colleagues because you have trouble unticking a few boxes on a website.
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I would be very pleased to see Flybe go bust.
I hope this was just a flippant remark. There are certain employees who don't deserve their jobs, and personalities in the airline industry whom we'd all like to see getting their come-uppance, no names of course but a certain loud mouthed arrogant Irishman comes to mind, but to wish redundancy on everyone in an airline is quite a different matter.
There are choices in life, mine is to avoid certain airlines for a variety of reasons, but to wish bankruptcy on them is wrong.
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I read through this thread in disbelief, I occasionally wander on to the SLF forum and read some people with a loyalty card that seems to entitle them to think they own the airline, but this takes the biscuit.
I have a shiny arse from heavy paxing as opposed to a shiny card from my company paying business or first for me. The paxing gets me from A to B to do my job, and is treated as a means to an end. I read and understand the rules, because it's my job - I don't expect the pimply 18 year old to bend them for me. If I get caught because I didn't read them, I suck it up. Sometimes I get AOGs, diverts, bad weather, ATC delays, etc, but I suck it up and reschedule as best I can, because that's all I can do. I stand in huge checkin/immigration/security queues in airports, but I plan and arrive in good time as that's what I'm paid to do. And I ALWAYS say thank you to the hosties on the way out the aircraft door.
I have a friend who still thinks he can arrive 20 minutes before the flight at any airport and breeze through with everything as hand luggage to his Easyjet or Ryanair flight because he's BUSY. I refuse to fly with him any more when we go on holidays, because by the time he gets off the flight where we're going, his head is a blood-pressure purple from ranting about every single thing in the airport and on the aircraft. And I honestly couldn't argue with at least 80% of what he says.
Why come on pprune and rant about a few kgs in your hold baggage? It IS a pilot's website - admittedly there is an SLF section, but I can see some purpose in having a section where pilots can explain noises an A320 makes on the stand, or why -NGs can seem to land harder than other aircraft. I suppose a post such as this is marginally better than trying to join in on a technical discussion on A330 stall speeds, but what is it trying to achieve, do you think people who work in airports as their job day in and out will be impressed?
I have a shiny arse from heavy paxing as opposed to a shiny card from my company paying business or first for me. The paxing gets me from A to B to do my job, and is treated as a means to an end. I read and understand the rules, because it's my job - I don't expect the pimply 18 year old to bend them for me. If I get caught because I didn't read them, I suck it up. Sometimes I get AOGs, diverts, bad weather, ATC delays, etc, but I suck it up and reschedule as best I can, because that's all I can do. I stand in huge checkin/immigration/security queues in airports, but I plan and arrive in good time as that's what I'm paid to do. And I ALWAYS say thank you to the hosties on the way out the aircraft door.
I have a friend who still thinks he can arrive 20 minutes before the flight at any airport and breeze through with everything as hand luggage to his Easyjet or Ryanair flight because he's BUSY. I refuse to fly with him any more when we go on holidays, because by the time he gets off the flight where we're going, his head is a blood-pressure purple from ranting about every single thing in the airport and on the aircraft. And I honestly couldn't argue with at least 80% of what he says.
Why come on pprune and rant about a few kgs in your hold baggage? It IS a pilot's website - admittedly there is an SLF section, but I can see some purpose in having a section where pilots can explain noises an A320 makes on the stand, or why -NGs can seem to land harder than other aircraft. I suppose a post such as this is marginally better than trying to join in on a technical discussion on A330 stall speeds, but what is it trying to achieve, do you think people who work in airports as their job day in and out will be impressed?
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Bear 11
As you appear not to be aware of the mission statement for the SLF forum, it appears below.
The forum for pax to ask questions of pilots is Spectators Gallery, as elicited in the Questions forum statement.
I hope this information may assist you.
As you appear not to be aware of the mission statement for the SLF forum, it appears below.
If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your views or questions here? Many of us pilots like to know exactly what you think of us, the job, the airline or anything that you think we should hear about.
I hope this information may assist you.
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And you obviously miss my point entirely, a slave to the modern idea of if you can do it, you should - not whether it will achieve anything, or if it's an intelligent thing to do in the first place. Plus, ignore the middle 2 paragraphs for an encore.
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Chesty Morgan
Whilst I don't wish unemployment on your colleagues and you, I do feel that the poster who wouldn't mind it happening had a few more important gripes than unticking preselected internet buttons, which was added as the last point.
Having said that, having to opt out of optional extras is not particularly good practice in customer care, when dealing with non changegable and/or refundable tickets.
An airline, with whom I fly a lot, introduced this approach to travel insurance.
When I pointed it out to a senior manager, he agreed that it was customer unfriendly and they stopped doing it.
Like it or not, your company has some dissatisfied customers.
It may be wiser to reflect that this type of feedback (however irritating) is probably quite useful as part of the marketing mix and no doubt you have commercial colleagues monitoring this (and other) relevant sources.
Whilst I don't wish unemployment on your colleagues and you, I do feel that the poster who wouldn't mind it happening had a few more important gripes than unticking preselected internet buttons, which was added as the last point.
Having said that, having to opt out of optional extras is not particularly good practice in customer care, when dealing with non changegable and/or refundable tickets.
An airline, with whom I fly a lot, introduced this approach to travel insurance.
When I pointed it out to a senior manager, he agreed that it was customer unfriendly and they stopped doing it.
Like it or not, your company has some dissatisfied customers.
It may be wiser to reflect that this type of feedback (however irritating) is probably quite useful as part of the marketing mix and no doubt you have commercial colleagues monitoring this (and other) relevant sources.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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I became aware by default that certain optional items were being included that I did not wish to have, so it was a simple matter to go back and exclude them. The point remains I found the Flybe flight very pleasant from a customer point of view. On time, excellent equipment, friendly smiling crew. I say this as an employee of a competitor. Whilst one noisy person can berate the airline, I am a regular user of Flybe because of where I live, and the quality of the flights and genuine friendliness of the crew are known factors in my choice of using them.
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Rainboe
I agree with you that customers will favour providers who do what they say they will do and do it with a smile.
So I can understand why you use Flybe and am pleased that you have good experiences, as travelling is much better when it works that way.
On the subject of good practices in designing websites, because of programmes and projects I managed in the past, I do think, in this instance, that I know rather more than you about the subject. Just because a person with above average IQ and a history of managing highly complex systems can adapt easily does not mean its good practice in usability.
I agree with you that customers will favour providers who do what they say they will do and do it with a smile.
So I can understand why you use Flybe and am pleased that you have good experiences, as travelling is much better when it works that way.
On the subject of good practices in designing websites, because of programmes and projects I managed in the past, I do think, in this instance, that I know rather more than you about the subject. Just because a person with above average IQ and a history of managing highly complex systems can adapt easily does not mean its good practice in usability.
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I would be very pleased to see Flybe go bust.
Boing7117 - your considered tone suggests to me more than an 'employee' of the airline?
- but in a previous life before flying I was involved in a customer facing job dealing various people of differing backgrounds, experiences with varying needs and requirements. The most important thing I ever learnt was no matter what I think the company I work for stand for, achieve or represent, someone, somewhere will always have a conflict of opinion. Listening, on our part is the only way forward. Doing something about it is the next step, but that's sometimes easier said than done.
Finals 3 Greens / Jaycee - I think there might be a small chance you may well end up using FlyBe again in the future. I hope you do and I hope that your experience next time round is a more pleasant one.
Air Travel isn't a wonderful and stress free way to travel and yes, the airports don't help that, combined with strict requirements from the airlines aswell makes for a trying time regardless of the duration the flight - but it will improve and should get better, more efficient, less hassle. But it will take time.
The problem is that if we allow the setup to become as lax as going to a bus station and hopping on a bus, like it used to be in the US, it doesn't stop people hopping on with a grudge against most of humanity and causing a catastrophe. We're still reeling from that in the aviation industry and will be for some time. That's not a kop out statement - but it's worth remembering why getting on a plane can just seem like such a hassle sometimes!
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Under the Third Package rules, airlines should not have this service on an 'opt-out' basis
This is a part of an e-mail I received from the AUC after I complained about the way in which Flybe now charges for online seat selection during the flight booking process.
Previously when making a booking passengers were asked if they wanted to include seat selection in the process. If they decided to wait until check-in thereby not incurring any charge the booking process simply moved on.
However, recently this has changed. Seats are now pre-selected for each booking and the passenger is asked whether they wish to accept them or change them. But here's the catch - you're charged for seat selection whichever course of action you take. You actually have to opt out of seat selection altogether if you don't want to pay for it amid dire online warnings about not being able to sit beside your travelling companions etc etc.
I like Flybe and fly with them frequently. But I'm not standing for that. Why should passengers pay for a seat automatically allocated to them? I can understand being charged to change from the allocated seat but being charged for a seat I have had no say in selecting is ridiculous. You don't have to pay for an automatic seat allocation in which you have no say at check-in so why at the time of booking?
The Northern Ireland Consumer Council has also received complaints about this change to online seat selection - Flybe is the largest operator at Belfast City. They've told me it should be on a strictly opt in basis.
This is a part of an e-mail I received from the AUC after I complained about the way in which Flybe now charges for online seat selection during the flight booking process.
Previously when making a booking passengers were asked if they wanted to include seat selection in the process. If they decided to wait until check-in thereby not incurring any charge the booking process simply moved on.
However, recently this has changed. Seats are now pre-selected for each booking and the passenger is asked whether they wish to accept them or change them. But here's the catch - you're charged for seat selection whichever course of action you take. You actually have to opt out of seat selection altogether if you don't want to pay for it amid dire online warnings about not being able to sit beside your travelling companions etc etc.
I like Flybe and fly with them frequently. But I'm not standing for that. Why should passengers pay for a seat automatically allocated to them? I can understand being charged to change from the allocated seat but being charged for a seat I have had no say in selecting is ridiculous. You don't have to pay for an automatic seat allocation in which you have no say at check-in so why at the time of booking?
The Northern Ireland Consumer Council has also received complaints about this change to online seat selection - Flybe is the largest operator at Belfast City. They've told me it should be on a strictly opt in basis.
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"Seats are now pre-selected for each booking and the passenger is asked whether they wish to accept them or change them. But here's the catch - you're charged for seat selection whichever course of action you take. You actually have to opt out of seat selection altogether if you don't want to pay for it"
I noticed this on my last Flybe booking and I thought it was me being a bit thick, as it was late at night and I'd been enjoying some of Stellenbosch's finest wines earlier in the evening. You're right about "dire online warnings about not being able to sit beside your travelling companions etc etc." but as I was travelling on my own I wasn't really bothered. I long ago gave up hope of sitting next to a blonde nympho and now my greatest hope is to have an empty seat next to me!