Some crews are just incredible
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Bucket, my next door neighbour has the ugliest wife in the world.
I think he was extremely unwise to marry her…all my other neighbours agree. But so what, it’s his choice and since I don’t know for certain that he has broken any law or company rule, it’s his business.
If a pax was concerned, he should approach the relevant company and maybe they might have told him that as responsible, professional adults (and having finished a duty) the company feels that their crews were entitled to have a small drink the same as any other human being. OTOH he might have been told that it was indeed against company policy and that disciplinary procedures would be instigated against the crew concerned…but what we got was a post on PPrune and the usual shooting from the hip from people who don’t know the facts and aren’t interested…just as long as they can spout anonymous indignation.
I think he was extremely unwise to marry her…all my other neighbours agree. But so what, it’s his choice and since I don’t know for certain that he has broken any law or company rule, it’s his business.
If a pax was concerned, he should approach the relevant company and maybe they might have told him that as responsible, professional adults (and having finished a duty) the company feels that their crews were entitled to have a small drink the same as any other human being. OTOH he might have been told that it was indeed against company policy and that disciplinary procedures would be instigated against the crew concerned…but what we got was a post on PPrune and the usual shooting from the hip from people who don’t know the facts and aren’t interested…just as long as they can spout anonymous indignation.
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If a pax was concerned, he should approach the relevant company and maybe they might have told him that as responsible, professional adults (and having finished a duty) the company feels that their crews were entitled to have a small drink the same as any other human being.
Nobody is suggesting that these individuals were not entitled to have a "small drink." It doesn't matter if they were off duty pilots, policemen, surgeons or anything else. However given they were perfectly capable of divesting themselves of sufficient uniform items to both allay any concerns that might arise, and identify their company and office, it didn't take much common sense and effort to prevent this situation arising.
Calling the police is a rather pointless exercise as no offence has been committed. Inviting the perception that one has, is also pointless. It is to prevent this type of concern and potential inconvenience that companies have relevent rules in place. Those that don't (and they must be few,) either rely on the common sense of their employees not to embarrass the company or are presumably happy to deal with any negative PR. Taking your jacket, tie and epaulettes off must take all of 15 seconds. Saying to the public "Look at me I am a Captain/First officer with XYZ airlines" with an alcoholic drink in your hands (or any perception of one) is at best dim witted and liable to result in unwanted attention.
Ok, hold on.
It's one thing that you see three pilots enjoying a drink and open a topic about it on PPRuNe. I share your concern. It's not the most professional thing to drink, off duty in uniform, when there are passengers around.
However it's something else when you start emailing their company. I'm not saying you shouldn't have. But they did not brake any law. They did not endanger anyone. They did not embarass you. I would shrugg, maybe even open a topic, but contacting their company? Isn't that a bit too...
Like a previous poster said, who knows what might have actually been going on.
It's one thing that you see three pilots enjoying a drink and open a topic about it on PPRuNe. I share your concern. It's not the most professional thing to drink, off duty in uniform, when there are passengers around.
However it's something else when you start emailing their company. I'm not saying you shouldn't have. But they did not brake any law. They did not endanger anyone. They did not embarass you. I would shrugg, maybe even open a topic, but contacting their company? Isn't that a bit too...
Like a previous poster said, who knows what might have actually been going on.
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The fact is that as far as anyone is aware, no laws were being broken.
The fact is that no-one knows if the company has a rule regarding this matter, it matters not if it’s unusual; I used to work for one such company.
The fact is this crew’s identity is unknown and the role they play within the company concerned. For all anyone knows they might have just operated their last flight before redundancy.
Another curious fact is that posting an unrelated company’s rules regarding this matter is surprisingly irrelevant.
Try reaching an opinion based on facts… and the fact is that regarding this incidence, facts are in very short supply.
It would seem that the need for facts and that relationship in forming a valid opinion of an event, is an alien concept for many who post here.
The fact is that no-one knows if the company has a rule regarding this matter, it matters not if it’s unusual; I used to work for one such company.
The fact is this crew’s identity is unknown and the role they play within the company concerned. For all anyone knows they might have just operated their last flight before redundancy.
Another curious fact is that posting an unrelated company’s rules regarding this matter is surprisingly irrelevant.
Try reaching an opinion based on facts… and the fact is that regarding this incidence, facts are in very short supply.
It would seem that the need for facts and that relationship in forming a valid opinion of an event, is an alien concept for many who post here.
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However it's something else when you start emailing their company. I'm not saying you shouldn't have. But they did not brake any law. They did not endanger anyone. They did not embarass you. I would shrugg, maybe even open a topic, but contacting their company? Isn't that a bit too...
If an off duty policeman was drinking at an airport bar, how would anybody know or care? On the other hand if he/she was wearing their uniform with shoulder numbers, their employer would likely be very unhappy to be notified.
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I try to be tolerant of a rainbow of opinions, but this is beginning to stray into the realm of the cretinous.
No aircrew, anywhere, at any time, under any circumstance should publicly drink alcohol in identifiable uniform - whatever company regulations may mandate. This is defined by a mixture of regulation and common sense.
If an individual pilot in uniform chooses to do so, He/She may expect, at best, exactly this kind of query from the public, and the inevitable consequences, and at worst, summary dismissal. It is inconceivable that this can come as a surprise to the individual involved.
Yes we can speculate - they could all have lost their favorite Great Aunts in a tragic accident: They could have spent all day dealing with a sick puppy. It is all irrelevant.
Any true professional knows the above to be the case. If any one of you is unable to understand this core absolute of our industry then PPRuNe is absolutely not the place for you to post any further.
No aircrew, anywhere, at any time, under any circumstance should publicly drink alcohol in identifiable uniform - whatever company regulations may mandate. This is defined by a mixture of regulation and common sense.
If an individual pilot in uniform chooses to do so, He/She may expect, at best, exactly this kind of query from the public, and the inevitable consequences, and at worst, summary dismissal. It is inconceivable that this can come as a surprise to the individual involved.
Yes we can speculate - they could all have lost their favorite Great Aunts in a tragic accident: They could have spent all day dealing with a sick puppy. It is all irrelevant.
Any true professional knows the above to be the case. If any one of you is unable to understand this core absolute of our industry then PPRuNe is absolutely not the place for you to post any further.
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If I were a concerned pax, about to board a flight, and presented with such a situation, I might approach the persons and politely enquire if they were going of duty or on. I would see no reason to find their employers and shop them.
Unless they admitted were going on duty.
Unless they admitted were going on duty.
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OK, hold your horses here. Some people are guessing a bit too much here.
I've not in this thread given away the airline in question. I said I've written a question to the airline in question, and yet again, I've not given away when/where/who in that email.
I've also stated I'm not into getting the press on to this, and I'm not out to get people into unwarranted problems. I wanted to air the issue of sitting in a lounge and seeing what should be three bright persons doing something that seems about as unnatural a cop drinking in a bar.
As many have pointed out, I do not know all the circumstances around this, I do not know what just happened. But I know what I saw and that got my attention, and for that reason I'm not about to disclose them here or to the employer in question after actually finding out from the lounge receptionist what flight was involved and verifying they were not on the flight deck.
-A
I've not in this thread given away the airline in question. I said I've written a question to the airline in question, and yet again, I've not given away when/where/who in that email.
I've also stated I'm not into getting the press on to this, and I'm not out to get people into unwarranted problems. I wanted to air the issue of sitting in a lounge and seeing what should be three bright persons doing something that seems about as unnatural a cop drinking in a bar.
As many have pointed out, I do not know all the circumstances around this, I do not know what just happened. But I know what I saw and that got my attention, and for that reason I'm not about to disclose them here or to the employer in question after actually finding out from the lounge receptionist what flight was involved and verifying they were not on the flight deck.
-A
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Tight Slot
I couldn't agree more with you there.
This is all about context - and with that in mind, a capt / FO sitting in a busy lounge, in full uniform, necking vodka in full view of anyone who happened to be around is TOTALLY unforgivable.
I happened to be drinking with a fellow 500 hour man, a good friend, last night in our local pub in my native leafy West Yorkshire. We were there, pint in hand, discussing our views on everything from AF447 to whether our pal's trip to Rome would be bumpy.
Had that happened while in full garb after a flight - and in full uniform - I would fully expect to be given the bullet irrespective of whether I was toasting the memory of my late goldfish or simply having one after work with collegues.
One's slacks and a local are only ever around the corner......
This is all about context - and with that in mind, a capt / FO sitting in a busy lounge, in full uniform, necking vodka in full view of anyone who happened to be around is TOTALLY unforgivable.
I happened to be drinking with a fellow 500 hour man, a good friend, last night in our local pub in my native leafy West Yorkshire. We were there, pint in hand, discussing our views on everything from AF447 to whether our pal's trip to Rome would be bumpy.
Had that happened while in full garb after a flight - and in full uniform - I would fully expect to be given the bullet irrespective of whether I was toasting the memory of my late goldfish or simply having one after work with collegues.
One's slacks and a local are only ever around the corner......
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I worked for an airline long ago, and I'm not saying who or where, although I will say that this airline now really only exists in name.
It was common practice for the flight deck crew, on night stops, to be in the bar at the hotel until midnight or later, prior to an early morning departure. Not in uniform, and probably not drinking a great deal, but still utterly wrong for all the reasons stated.
It was common practice for the flight deck crew, on night stops, to be in the bar at the hotel until midnight or later, prior to an early morning departure. Not in uniform, and probably not drinking a great deal, but still utterly wrong for all the reasons stated.
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job done
Further discussion on this subject seems a little pointless to me after reading reply number 27 from the moderator.
That post sums up the matter exactly and there can surely be nothing more, from either a passenger or pilot that can usefully be added.
P.
That post sums up the matter exactly and there can surely be nothing more, from either a passenger or pilot that can usefully be added.
P.
