South African Airways. Customer Care ... what a joke!
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South African Airways. Customer Care ... bad start, good ending
In February I purchased 3 tickets on flysaa.com. They charged me for 4.
After a series of emails which were ignored I 'phoned them (from overseas) and they promised me a refund, which materialised in due course. I ended up about £10 out of pocket due to exchange rate differences and bank charges, as the debit and credit were on a Sterling credit card. I would have left it there but they didn't.
They refunded two further tickets a few weeks later, and then a couple of weeks later charged them back to me, without having the courtesy to notify me. My bank advised me to treat this as fraudulent. I appreciate that they are entitled to recover the loss but as it was due to their inefficiency they should have notified me. This left me about £40 out of pocket, due again to charges and RoE losses, plus the cost of numerous telephone calls to their 'Customer Care' in JNB.
Emailing them is an exercise in futility as all you get back is an auto-response containing a lie, as below, ..... nobody has ever responded directly to me, just copying me in a forwarded note to the refunds department.
Phoning them is only a little more fruitful. I've spoken to several of their agents, spending almost two hours total on the 'phone, all are pleasant and polite, but utterly incompetent, they promise to look into the case and call back, and they never do. They seem to think that lying is acceptable.
Speaking to refunds directly is just as hopeless. Each call is answered by a different person who refuses to transfer me to the person I'd previously spoken, or to a supervisor (supervisors/managers are always 'out', which raises some concerns). The reference number I was given doesn't seem to enable them to retrieve the information as they ask the same questions each time.
One cretin when I complained that the girl I'd previously spoken to had promised to call me back on the previous day and didn't, asked me if I'd given her my 'phone number. Well, no ..... I expect people to just guess it .... ****wit..... apart from which they had it on the PNR, on all the correspondence, and I'd given it verbally several times.
Next I managed to speak to the first girl in refunds and I asked her why she hadn't called back and she said she had .... a lie ... and then she contradicted herself and said she hadn't because she was still 'looking into the case'.
I've managed to get the direct email addresses of some of the supervisors and have emailed them copying Customer Care. No response.
I have never had direct experience of a major airline which treats its customer with such contempt and dishonesty. Fortunately I've not had to deal with Ryanair or Globespan who may be worse.
I hope someone from SAA reads this and I challenge them to reply.
This has been going on since the end of May. Up until this morning I've been pleasant and polite ..... that will change.
SAA might be a good airline to fly with but their Customer Service is not worthy of the name, an utter disgrace and a shambles.
After a series of emails which were ignored I 'phoned them (from overseas) and they promised me a refund, which materialised in due course. I ended up about £10 out of pocket due to exchange rate differences and bank charges, as the debit and credit were on a Sterling credit card. I would have left it there but they didn't.
They refunded two further tickets a few weeks later, and then a couple of weeks later charged them back to me, without having the courtesy to notify me. My bank advised me to treat this as fraudulent. I appreciate that they are entitled to recover the loss but as it was due to their inefficiency they should have notified me. This left me about £40 out of pocket, due again to charges and RoE losses, plus the cost of numerous telephone calls to their 'Customer Care' in JNB.
Emailing them is an exercise in futility as all you get back is an auto-response containing a lie, as below, ..... nobody has ever responded directly to me, just copying me in a forwarded note to the refunds department.
Dear Customer,
Welcome to the South African Airways Customer Care Department. The Customer Care Department deals with all post departure complaints and compliments.
Thank you for sharing your travel experience with us, your feedback is appreciated.
Please note that a customer service agent will respond to you shortly.
With kind regards,
SOUTH AFRICAN AIRWAYS CUSTOMER CARE TEAM
Office Hrs: 08h00-1630 Mon-Fri
Telephone: 0027 11 978 2888
Welcome to the South African Airways Customer Care Department. The Customer Care Department deals with all post departure complaints and compliments.
Thank you for sharing your travel experience with us, your feedback is appreciated.
Please note that a customer service agent will respond to you shortly.
With kind regards,
SOUTH AFRICAN AIRWAYS CUSTOMER CARE TEAM
Office Hrs: 08h00-1630 Mon-Fri
Telephone: 0027 11 978 2888
Speaking to refunds directly is just as hopeless. Each call is answered by a different person who refuses to transfer me to the person I'd previously spoken, or to a supervisor (supervisors/managers are always 'out', which raises some concerns). The reference number I was given doesn't seem to enable them to retrieve the information as they ask the same questions each time.
One cretin when I complained that the girl I'd previously spoken to had promised to call me back on the previous day and didn't, asked me if I'd given her my 'phone number. Well, no ..... I expect people to just guess it .... ****wit..... apart from which they had it on the PNR, on all the correspondence, and I'd given it verbally several times.
Next I managed to speak to the first girl in refunds and I asked her why she hadn't called back and she said she had .... a lie ... and then she contradicted herself and said she hadn't because she was still 'looking into the case'.
I've managed to get the direct email addresses of some of the supervisors and have emailed them copying Customer Care. No response.
I have never had direct experience of a major airline which treats its customer with such contempt and dishonesty. Fortunately I've not had to deal with Ryanair or Globespan who may be worse.
I hope someone from SAA reads this and I challenge them to reply.
This has been going on since the end of May. Up until this morning I've been pleasant and polite ..... that will change.
SAA might be a good airline to fly with but their Customer Service is not worthy of the name, an utter disgrace and a shambles.
Last edited by Capetonian; 8th Jul 2009 at 15:44.
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Achievement today, after a total of 1h45' on the 'phone and about 30 emails in the last 4 weeks, is that a customer care supervisor from SAA has actually called me back as promised and has listened to what I had to say. It's not much of an achievement given that this is what should have happened in the first place, but it's a step forward.
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South African Airways the worlds worst customer-service-ness.
I won't bore you with the details but I can tell you my complaint is similar to yours Capetonian but is 5 months long and counting. Sorry to tell you I passed that return phone call bit of the process 3 months ago.
Skytrax how could you have given SAA a 4 star ranking?
Skytrax how could you have given SAA a 4 star ranking?
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I wouldn't be spending money on international phone calls to airlines for this sort of thing. Wouldn't even call an 0870/0845 number, waste of cash.
Companies House gives their UK branch as
SOUTH AFRICAN AIRWAYS
ST GEORGE'S HOUSE
61 CONDUIT STREET
LONDON
W1R 9FD
Not sure exactly what they have been doing but if the credit card company says there is naughty business going on (and the credit card company would be jointly liable) you need to put things in writing. You probably needed to do that anyway. If they ignore a couple of letters or fail to refund what they are required to, then just go after your UK credit card issuer for the money.
Companies House gives their UK branch as
SOUTH AFRICAN AIRWAYS
ST GEORGE'S HOUSE
61 CONDUIT STREET
LONDON
W1R 9FD
Not sure exactly what they have been doing but if the credit card company says there is naughty business going on (and the credit card company would be jointly liable) you need to put things in writing. You probably needed to do that anyway. If they ignore a couple of letters or fail to refund what they are required to, then just go after your UK credit card issuer for the money.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Were the tickets purchased on the internet or travel agents? How did they charge for 4 when you bought 3? Was there an additional name thrown in somewhere, or extra leg for you that you did not think you were purchasing but the person on the other end assumed you had? How did they just 'add another ticket'? There must have been a positive name or sector under your name.
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Tickets were purchased on flysaa.com, using the South African site as I was in SA at the time. However for logistical reasons I paid for them with a UK card.
They are unable to explain why they billed for a 4th. ticket. There were 3 names, 3 ticket numbers, 3 ITRs, and 3 return sectors.
As the transaction took place in SA I can't go after them under UK law and it's such a small amount it's not worth it, it's just their total contempt and their lies I can't put up with. I feel like giving them a full revving and getting them to back down.
Mine is also 5 months long (stop bragging!) if you consider that the original purchase was in February and we are now in July.
Next time I'm at Jans Smuts (yeah I know what it's called now but for me it will always be Jan Smuts) I feel I will go into Airways Park and confront them!
They are unable to explain why they billed for a 4th. ticket. There were 3 names, 3 ticket numbers, 3 ITRs, and 3 return sectors.
As the transaction took place in SA I can't go after them under UK law and it's such a small amount it's not worth it, it's just their total contempt and their lies I can't put up with. I feel like giving them a full revving and getting them to back down.
Mine is also 5 months long (stop bragging!) if you consider that the original purchase was in February and we are now in July.
Next time I'm at Jans Smuts (yeah I know what it's called now but for me it will always be Jan Smuts) I feel I will go into Airways Park and confront them!
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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It was with a UK credit card. Surely with appropriate supporting information, it is simple for you to get redress from the credit card company? Isn't it Section 25 of the Finance Act or something? I don't recall foreign transactions being excluded. If the transaction is for more than £100, as far as I know, if impropriety in billing and payment has taken place, the credit card company should seek redress for you.
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I believe that to claim back for the mysterious 4th ticket (Section 75 refund), that ticket on it's own has to have cost more than £100 - see this section of Money Saving Expert for an example and details:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/sho...purchases#bill
However, in this situation I'm sure the card company would help even if the price of the ticket didn't automatically qualify
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/sho...purchases#bill
However, in this situation I'm sure the card company would help even if the price of the ticket didn't automatically qualify
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Thanks Raffele, and all of you.
The mysterious 4th. ticket was refunded so I don't have grounds for action there.
At present, the situation is that I've been charged for 6 tickets and refunded for 3, meaning that (and this is not higher mathematics although it seemed to cause one numbskull at SAA a problem, I said to her it's 6-3=3 but she seemed to have a problem with that) I've ended up paying for 3 - which is correct.
My losses on the transactions result from the consequence of the debits being converted from ZAR to GBP at one rate (plus the 2.75% credit card rate) and then when the refund for the same amount of ZAR was converted to GBP the 2.75% was again applied, plus any exchange rate fluctuation, meaning I got back less than I'd been charged.
When I discussed this by 'phone with my CC issuer in UK the person didn't seem to think they could do anything, so I left it at that on the basis that these things usually only get proper attention if put in writing.
It's now become a matter of principle rather than of the £60 or so that this now racks up to. Never mind my time.
SAA got a 4 star Flytrax rating based on their inflight service (which is generally very good) and probably does not cover administrative matters. Their after sales service is an utter disgrace and should also be rated. On a scale of 1-100 I'd give them -20.
The mysterious 4th. ticket was refunded so I don't have grounds for action there.
At present, the situation is that I've been charged for 6 tickets and refunded for 3, meaning that (and this is not higher mathematics although it seemed to cause one numbskull at SAA a problem, I said to her it's 6-3=3 but she seemed to have a problem with that) I've ended up paying for 3 - which is correct.
My losses on the transactions result from the consequence of the debits being converted from ZAR to GBP at one rate (plus the 2.75% credit card rate) and then when the refund for the same amount of ZAR was converted to GBP the 2.75% was again applied, plus any exchange rate fluctuation, meaning I got back less than I'd been charged.
When I discussed this by 'phone with my CC issuer in UK the person didn't seem to think they could do anything, so I left it at that on the basis that these things usually only get proper attention if put in writing.
It's now become a matter of principle rather than of the £60 or so that this now racks up to. Never mind my time.
SAA got a 4 star Flytrax rating based on their inflight service (which is generally very good) and probably does not cover administrative matters. Their after sales service is an utter disgrace and should also be rated. On a scale of 1-100 I'd give them -20.
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If you have a UK credit card I assume you have a UK address. If you are out of pocket by £60 (or any amount really) due to their negligence then they are liable for your losses. Worth a letter to their UK branch pointing that out. Only you can decide whether to pursue further. Plenty of small claims cases are heard for less. Of course if you are living in South Africa then you don't want to have to revolve your life around the dates set by the overworked and inefficient small claims courts in the UK.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Find out the name and business address of the SAA CEO and write to him/her, personally, by name, using registered post, making very clear your dissatisfaction at the lack of service and give full details, listing dates, times and calls made so far. Your complaint will then percolate down through senior management and people who normally can and will take decisions. You now have people above putting pressure on people below to get a result as your letter to the CEA canot be ignored and he/she will want answers.
Starting at the bottom and working up is a total waste of time as junior people don't want their incompetence exposed and will go to great lengths to hide it, they certainly won't refer you to their superior and are incapable of putting any pressure on them.
Starting at the bottom and working up is a total waste of time as junior people don't want their incompetence exposed and will go to great lengths to hide it, they certainly won't refer you to their superior and are incapable of putting any pressure on them.
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Promised 'phone call not received, I can't say I was surprised, but I got this email today :
My apologies for not coming back to you in time as I was waiting for feedback from the relevant source (i.e. the team leader at refunds department.
We reviewed your query and went as far as checking the matter with the Team Leader/Supervisor at refunds department. I have been advised that we regrettably cannot refund the difference in the rate of exchange and also the calls made as Alfred had already advised that we cannot accede to your request of the refund. (This is a lie.)
Should you still not be satisfied with the answer to the query, kindly contact our refunds department at 011 978-1786 and ask to speak to Pierre van der Westhuizen who is the senior manager at refunds for further assistance on the matter. (He's the fellow for whom I've left several messages and whom I've asked to speak to several times and he's always 'busy' or 'out') I would like to thank you for the opportunity given to try and assist where possible.
With kind regards,
Victor (mod edit - real name deleted)
My response :
I have spoken again to my UK credit card issuer and they are prepared to act on my behalf in this, and also to SAA LON who were as helpful as the other shower of crap were unhelpful, and they have also offered to help.
Mountains and molehills may come to mind, but there is a principle involved and I have plenty of time!
My apologies for not coming back to you in time as I was waiting for feedback from the relevant source (i.e. the team leader at refunds department.
We reviewed your query and went as far as checking the matter with the Team Leader/Supervisor at refunds department. I have been advised that we regrettably cannot refund the difference in the rate of exchange and also the calls made as Alfred had already advised that we cannot accede to your request of the refund. (This is a lie.)
Should you still not be satisfied with the answer to the query, kindly contact our refunds department at 011 978-1786 and ask to speak to Pierre van der Westhuizen who is the senior manager at refunds for further assistance on the matter. (He's the fellow for whom I've left several messages and whom I've asked to speak to several times and he's always 'busy' or 'out') I would like to thank you for the opportunity given to try and assist where possible.
With kind regards,
Victor (mod edit - real name deleted)
My response :
I am sure that you will appreciate that, from my perspective as a customer who has been inconvenienced and has incurred expenses due to a series of unacceptable errors on the part of SAA, this response is utterly unsatisfactory, as indeed all my dealings with you on this matter have been unsatisfactory.
The 'service' provided by 'Customer Care', who don't even respond to emails or return calls (with one exception) is effectively worthless and discourteous, and that provided by the refunds department is clearly shambolic - I think 'gemors' would sum it up. (It's an Afrikaans word meaning a mess!)
As a matter of principle, and however small the amount, a customer should not be out of pocket due to failures by a provider.
In addition I have been made a number of promises which were not fulfilled and I have been told untruths, including the one in the email below in which you state : "Alfred had already advised that we cannot accede to your request of the refund."
Alfred has not advised me of this, in fact he has not even had the courtesy to respond to my emails or 'phone calls on this matter. Perhaps you could tell me when and how he advised me that you would not accede to the refund request, because I have no record of any such email or conversation. I also asked for an explanation of how the errors could have occurred, since this series of failures give me some concern about ever using your services online again.
I am also asking that Mr. van der Westhuizen calls me on either of the numbers I have provided below as I see no reason why I should be subjected to further expense as a result of SAA's incompetence and negligence towards me as a customer.
I will now escalate this. This is the first time in many years that I have had cause to complain about SAA and I intend to pursue this.
The 'service' provided by 'Customer Care', who don't even respond to emails or return calls (with one exception) is effectively worthless and discourteous, and that provided by the refunds department is clearly shambolic - I think 'gemors' would sum it up. (It's an Afrikaans word meaning a mess!)
As a matter of principle, and however small the amount, a customer should not be out of pocket due to failures by a provider.
In addition I have been made a number of promises which were not fulfilled and I have been told untruths, including the one in the email below in which you state : "Alfred had already advised that we cannot accede to your request of the refund."
Alfred has not advised me of this, in fact he has not even had the courtesy to respond to my emails or 'phone calls on this matter. Perhaps you could tell me when and how he advised me that you would not accede to the refund request, because I have no record of any such email or conversation. I also asked for an explanation of how the errors could have occurred, since this series of failures give me some concern about ever using your services online again.
I am also asking that Mr. van der Westhuizen calls me on either of the numbers I have provided below as I see no reason why I should be subjected to further expense as a result of SAA's incompetence and negligence towards me as a customer.
I will now escalate this. This is the first time in many years that I have had cause to complain about SAA and I intend to pursue this.
Mountains and molehills may come to mind, but there is a principle involved and I have plenty of time!
Last edited by TightSlot; 3rd Jul 2009 at 20:48. Reason: Removed real name - not relevant to discussion
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Most people would say "ten quid? not worth it". However I think it's good that you pursue this - no company anywhere should think it's acceptable for their customers to foot the bill for charges caused by their incompetence.
Paxing All Over The World
I think that parabellum has it right. You now have amassed enough evidence to go to the to man and kak all over him from a dizzy height.
Had it just have been the exchange rate? Nah. But the 4th ticket? I agree that looks like a scam or simple incompetence but it is serious and unusual.
I have not flown long haul with SAA since 1987 and have made another (checks records) eight trips since then and the ninth is booked.
Had it just have been the exchange rate? Nah. But the 4th ticket? I agree that looks like a scam or simple incompetence but it is serious and unusual.
I have not flown long haul with SAA since 1987 and have made another (checks records) eight trips since then and the ninth is booked.
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The problem is to get hold of the head honcho in such cases. And to be honest even I feel daft going to that length for £60! What has really pissed me off is the way they have dealt with this.
Anyway thanks for the support and I'll keep you posted.
Anyway thanks for the support and I'll keep you posted.
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You are not seeing the big picture Capetonian. Assuming you are correct then follow this through and forever you name will be high lighted in the computer as one not to be messed with. Getting hold of the CEO's name and address should be quite simple, believe me, it is the only way to go, other wise you will be ignored.
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I agree with parabellum - I'm guessing this wasn't the first time this happened (to a SAA customer) , and if everyone who ends up £10 out of pocket because of an error made by the airline just shrugged it off then you're in effect condoning their actions! Get your case put to the CEO and make them deal with it! Not just for your sake, but for the sake of all customers!
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On Friday afternoon I sent the email in my posting on that date at 1731. This morning Mr. van der Westhuizen 'phoned me, appeared to be in agreement with my sentiments firstly this had been appallingly handled and secondly that I should not end up out of pocket. He also took the trouble to epxlain why the errors had happened.
He has now promised to call me within the next few days with a solution. Let's see. It is at least a step forward.
He has now promised to call me within the next few days with a solution. Let's see. It is at least a step forward.
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.. and today I had an email from Customer Relations in London offering to settle my expenses in full.
That is how it should have been from the beginning. It's a pity that I had to get nasty and threatening for anything to happen.
That is how it should have been from the beginning. It's a pity that I had to get nasty and threatening for anything to happen.