Heathrow T5
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Heathrow T5
Is it just me or is the new terminal at Heathrow completely rubbish?
Here's my tale:
Flew in from Bahrain just before Christmas. New terminal should equal lots of jetways but we ended up in the middle of nowhere stepping off the bottom of the steps into pouring rain to get on a bus to take us to the terminal.
My wife had decided to buy me a watch for my birthday. We asked if the Duty Free shop had any Longines - Not in this terminal we were told. So that means that they are sold in other terminals but not the newest one in the country! Yep
We stopped off at the business class lounge intending to shower to freshen ourselves up for the next leg up to Newcastle. We asked the front of house lady if we had to book in for showers. She said "Oh, we don't have showers in this lounge, only in the South lounge" It then took 5 minutes of discussion with her collegue to establish that, yes, they had showers and, yes, you had to book in for them.
On our return trip, we landed from Newcastle and, guess what, another bus ride to the terminal. We were dropped off at the Domestic entrance and started to look for the Flight Connection signs. There were none so we started to follow the crowd (no other option!). Up to the first floor - offices and still no signs. Second floor - still no signs so we asked a BA employee who told us we had to go all the way up to the top floor then through security. He also, very helpfully told us that the VAT returns desk was at the South end.
So, through security, then ask the way to the business class lounge. Told to go along to the middle of the building then down 3 floors and then back to the south end. Went down 3 floors to find that, yes indeed, we had to go to the south end but only to go up 2 floors to get to the lounge. Mad design!! Up 3 floors, down 3 floors then up 2 floors to get to the lounge. We had not hung about and it still took an hour to get to the lounge from landing.
Arrived at the lounge and went through the front desks separately. I was allowed to enter as was my wife but only she was told that our flight would be going from T5 B and not this terminal and anyway, theres no water in this lounge so no washrooms or toilets!!
So, back down to bottom floor to get train to T5B. Decided to do the last bit of shopping there but the choices in the Duty Free section were limited to say the least.
All in all, the place is poorly designed, poorly run and extremely frustrating.
Here's my tale:
Flew in from Bahrain just before Christmas. New terminal should equal lots of jetways but we ended up in the middle of nowhere stepping off the bottom of the steps into pouring rain to get on a bus to take us to the terminal.
My wife had decided to buy me a watch for my birthday. We asked if the Duty Free shop had any Longines - Not in this terminal we were told. So that means that they are sold in other terminals but not the newest one in the country! Yep
We stopped off at the business class lounge intending to shower to freshen ourselves up for the next leg up to Newcastle. We asked the front of house lady if we had to book in for showers. She said "Oh, we don't have showers in this lounge, only in the South lounge" It then took 5 minutes of discussion with her collegue to establish that, yes, they had showers and, yes, you had to book in for them.
On our return trip, we landed from Newcastle and, guess what, another bus ride to the terminal. We were dropped off at the Domestic entrance and started to look for the Flight Connection signs. There were none so we started to follow the crowd (no other option!). Up to the first floor - offices and still no signs. Second floor - still no signs so we asked a BA employee who told us we had to go all the way up to the top floor then through security. He also, very helpfully told us that the VAT returns desk was at the South end.
So, through security, then ask the way to the business class lounge. Told to go along to the middle of the building then down 3 floors and then back to the south end. Went down 3 floors to find that, yes indeed, we had to go to the south end but only to go up 2 floors to get to the lounge. Mad design!! Up 3 floors, down 3 floors then up 2 floors to get to the lounge. We had not hung about and it still took an hour to get to the lounge from landing.
Arrived at the lounge and went through the front desks separately. I was allowed to enter as was my wife but only she was told that our flight would be going from T5 B and not this terminal and anyway, theres no water in this lounge so no washrooms or toilets!!
So, back down to bottom floor to get train to T5B. Decided to do the last bit of shopping there but the choices in the Duty Free section were limited to say the least.
All in all, the place is poorly designed, poorly run and extremely frustrating.
I've been through T5 several times in the last year. My opinion is that it's cr*p!
Get through security on the not-quite-as-slow (but for heaven's sake, still slow in comparison with the non-fast tracks at Arlanda, Nice, Frankfurt, Phoenix, San Diego etc) track The security staff are generally a miserable lot with no manners - they have never heard of the words 'please' or 'thankyou'. Additionally, half the time , they don't know the rules on the BAA website! Walk along, down, back the way you came and back up to get to the south lounge - all so you can be forced to pass the tacky shops that Bloody Awful Airports want you to spend money in.
Then there are jetways that leak and get slippery when it rains. Buses out to board - we were given the impression just before it opened that T5 was a proper terminal, not for some flights, a 'bus station on the way to the aeroplane.
When you get back, there a very few moving walkways and an enormous baggage hall with toilets at the ends so you have to walk miles again! T5 - designed by idiots, sold by charlatans, and piad for by suckers called passengers!
Get through security on the not-quite-as-slow (but for heaven's sake, still slow in comparison with the non-fast tracks at Arlanda, Nice, Frankfurt, Phoenix, San Diego etc) track The security staff are generally a miserable lot with no manners - they have never heard of the words 'please' or 'thankyou'. Additionally, half the time , they don't know the rules on the BAA website! Walk along, down, back the way you came and back up to get to the south lounge - all so you can be forced to pass the tacky shops that Bloody Awful Airports want you to spend money in.
Then there are jetways that leak and get slippery when it rains. Buses out to board - we were given the impression just before it opened that T5 was a proper terminal, not for some flights, a 'bus station on the way to the aeroplane.
When you get back, there a very few moving walkways and an enormous baggage hall with toilets at the ends so you have to walk miles again! T5 - designed by idiots, sold by charlatans, and piad for by suckers called passengers!
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Ohhh booo hoo dry those tears boys.
T5B is part of T5, it's what we call a "Satellite". The reason for the long walk is to make sure you walk past all the shops before you get to the plane and as for flight connestions signs, I assure you there are f***ing plenty mate, perhaps you should have asked the guide dog.
Dear God if it's soooo bad there are four other terminals and many other airports. I found it rather uneventful ( dull even ) when I was through last week. All new, shiny, ( almost complete it IS Britain after all ) and arrivals is a pice of cake.
The bussing is not unknown throughout Europe, and will remain at LHR even after T5C comes on line as there is not enough space to fit the full BA program on a pier. This is not news and has been known about since Pontious expressed an interest in flying school.
T5B is part of T5, it's what we call a "Satellite". The reason for the long walk is to make sure you walk past all the shops before you get to the plane and as for flight connestions signs, I assure you there are f***ing plenty mate, perhaps you should have asked the guide dog.
Dear God if it's soooo bad there are four other terminals and many other airports. I found it rather uneventful ( dull even ) when I was through last week. All new, shiny, ( almost complete it IS Britain after all ) and arrivals is a pice of cake.
The bussing is not unknown throughout Europe, and will remain at LHR even after T5C comes on line as there is not enough space to fit the full BA program on a pier. This is not news and has been known about since Pontious expressed an interest in flying school.
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To add my comments
I suspect limited space on the ground meant using height and floors. Personally for me its a damn site better using escalators and lifts rather than walking for miles around those huge terminals encountered in the USA.
Security - not great, but still better than most parts of the world which shows just how bad security generally is
Bussing to planes - Absurd really but given the terminal space governed by height not width - thats a limitation of the boundaries of LHR
As to lounges, not sure why the policy of BA is an issue of the terminal itself.
Overall design - well its there to make money for BAA, not a convenience for the PAX.
I suspect limited space on the ground meant using height and floors. Personally for me its a damn site better using escalators and lifts rather than walking for miles around those huge terminals encountered in the USA.
Security - not great, but still better than most parts of the world which shows just how bad security generally is
Bussing to planes - Absurd really but given the terminal space governed by height not width - thats a limitation of the boundaries of LHR
As to lounges, not sure why the policy of BA is an issue of the terminal itself.
Overall design - well its there to make money for BAA, not a convenience for the PAX.
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I went through ZRH last week, a regular experience.
This is the gold standard for terminal design, IMHO.
It's the little things that help, llike the information about which of the two platform will host the next shuttle train.
Also, as a business class passenger, they have fast track for premium pax which is just that, whereas at T4 (haven't tried T5 outbound yet, will do in 10 days) security feeds economy pax into the fast track line from the economy queue, which again IMHO, shows the lack of understanding of customer service delivery at BAA.
This is the gold standard for terminal design, IMHO.
It's the little things that help, llike the information about which of the two platform will host the next shuttle train.
Also, as a business class passenger, they have fast track for premium pax which is just that, whereas at T4 (haven't tried T5 outbound yet, will do in 10 days) security feeds economy pax into the fast track line from the economy queue, which again IMHO, shows the lack of understanding of customer service delivery at BAA.
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Have to agree with many of the comments here re: T5
Flew back to T5 from Hong Kong before Christmas and transferred to an Edinburgh flight.
In spite of the full BA schedule not having transferred there, and it being early on a Sunday morning, a whole host of problems:
o the area for waiting for shuttle trains was very crowded and seems too small
o long wait for a shuttle train
o long queues at the security area and no space for people to queue
o people destined for the Fastrack security queue unable to reach it due to the length of the Slowtrack queue
o the new automatic "leave the tray on the conveyor" system seems slower than the old one
o signage for transferring to domestic flights v. poor
o signage around the departure gates is vague. We left the building to board our EDI flight under an "Emergency exit only" sign. How about a sign saying "GATE xxx" directly above where the gate is ?
o tiny flight information boards, causing even people with 20/20 vision to crowd around creating obstructions
o BA lounge is as soulless as a factory canteen. And fragmented - why do I have to go somewhere different if I want a shower ?
On the plus side, my luggage did get transferred to Edinburgh correctly, so I suppose I should be grateful for that
13Alpha
Flew back to T5 from Hong Kong before Christmas and transferred to an Edinburgh flight.
In spite of the full BA schedule not having transferred there, and it being early on a Sunday morning, a whole host of problems:
o the area for waiting for shuttle trains was very crowded and seems too small
o long wait for a shuttle train
o long queues at the security area and no space for people to queue
o people destined for the Fastrack security queue unable to reach it due to the length of the Slowtrack queue
o the new automatic "leave the tray on the conveyor" system seems slower than the old one
o signage for transferring to domestic flights v. poor
o signage around the departure gates is vague. We left the building to board our EDI flight under an "Emergency exit only" sign. How about a sign saying "GATE xxx" directly above where the gate is ?
o tiny flight information boards, causing even people with 20/20 vision to crowd around creating obstructions
o BA lounge is as soulless as a factory canteen. And fragmented - why do I have to go somewhere different if I want a shower ?
On the plus side, my luggage did get transferred to Edinburgh correctly, so I suppose I should be grateful for that
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The "advanced" leave the tray on the conveyor system is simply not working as some people thought it would. It slows everything down. A simple time and motion study would have shown this and I would have expected it to have been modified by now.
And, no, I don't want to buy a ticket to win an Audi R8 either! They seem to be getting more aggressive these days too.....it's like the modern day double glazing sales pitch.
And, no, I don't want to buy a ticket to win an Audi R8 either! They seem to be getting more aggressive these days too.....it's like the modern day double glazing sales pitch.
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it would be nice if Iris worked as well (morning of 17/12).
Apart from that, mainly going domestic, absolutely clear and simple apart from not having enough x-ray machines open at 6am and sometimes sending you on a long walk to the south security whan you know you have a gate at the northern end
Apart from that, mainly going domestic, absolutely clear and simple apart from not having enough x-ray machines open at 6am and sometimes sending you on a long walk to the south security whan you know you have a gate at the northern end
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My experience.
Security queue was a long pain and I agree with
Signage is very poor.
To add to the trip I was a lonely soul left watching an empty carrousel when a helpful BA person addressed me by name and told me my "lost" case was hidden out of sight to me at the other end of the belt.
Full marks to her.
0 marks to the dozey BA CC who heaved my black Delsey off the belt cos it had a yellow tie on label and did not have the sense or consideration to put it back on the belt.
They got away on time and I did not.
I too had a long walkabout. Customs exit was unmanned so trek to the other one and then back again landside to find wife.
IS anyone out there listening ?
Security queue was a long pain and I agree with
The "advanced" leave the tray on the conveyor system is simply not working as some people thought it would
To add to the trip I was a lonely soul left watching an empty carrousel when a helpful BA person addressed me by name and told me my "lost" case was hidden out of sight to me at the other end of the belt.
Full marks to her.
0 marks to the dozey BA CC who heaved my black Delsey off the belt cos it had a yellow tie on label and did not have the sense or consideration to put it back on the belt.
They got away on time and I did not.
I too had a long walkabout. Customs exit was unmanned so trek to the other one and then back again landside to find wife.
IS anyone out there listening ?
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I actually quite like T5, going through the fast track to the lounge has generally never taken me more than 15 minutes. I've never had a problem getting through security, but then I normally use the one right at the south end.
I like the BA First Lounge, BA staff are very helpful and there are a lot more of them.
The T5B Lounge is like a ghost town, on the few flights I've flown from T5B its been lovely and relaxing.
But then I dont go to the airport to shop, typically I want to get in the lounge as fast as possible and chill out.
It does seem to take a while getting back in, imho Iris is a complete waste of time, it seems to regularly break down. Is it my imagination or has UK Border control slowed down so that we now think they are really going to clamp down on illegals? Good spin, but hardly worth while!!!
I like the BA First Lounge, BA staff are very helpful and there are a lot more of them.
The T5B Lounge is like a ghost town, on the few flights I've flown from T5B its been lovely and relaxing.
But then I dont go to the airport to shop, typically I want to get in the lounge as fast as possible and chill out.
It does seem to take a while getting back in, imho Iris is a complete waste of time, it seems to regularly break down. Is it my imagination or has UK Border control slowed down so that we now think they are really going to clamp down on illegals? Good spin, but hardly worth while!!!
Paxing All Over The World
jethrobee
That's an iteresting response, as all the folks who complained in here about T5 (in previous threads too) have all said the same - that they are not interested in the shops BUT have to fight their way past them.
Thus far, I have only had to collect and drop off at T5 but on both occasions found confusing signage on the approach roads to the car park and those useless tiny flat screen displays inside, as well as unhelpful staff.
But then I don't go to the airport to shop, typically I want to get in the lounge as fast as possible and chill out.
Thus far, I have only had to collect and drop off at T5 but on both occasions found confusing signage on the approach roads to the car park and those useless tiny flat screen displays inside, as well as unhelpful staff.
Shining Example, apparently...
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In fairness, I've found T5 to be a breath of fresh air compared to what went before it - T3/T4 bus transfers, lots of walking, queueing, ageing and swearing (to myself).
On reflection, it's a terminal that works very well IF you've been through it before, AND you know exactly where you need to go, AND you have time on your side. That's a lot of preconditions, which is darned unforunate.
Bottom line: I'd much rather transfer thru LHR T5 than make an inter-terminal run at Paris CDG. This is not a benchmark BAA should be proud of. Commendable start though - let's hope they build on that.
On reflection, it's a terminal that works very well IF you've been through it before, AND you know exactly where you need to go, AND you have time on your side. That's a lot of preconditions, which is darned unforunate.
Bottom line: I'd much rather transfer thru LHR T5 than make an inter-terminal run at Paris CDG. This is not a benchmark BAA should be proud of. Commendable start though - let's hope they build on that.
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I thought I'd give BA longhaul another chance after a few years away.
However, I was unpleasantly surprised to find myself being bussed out to the a/c and same on the way back.
Does anyone know if this will be normal procedeure going forwards or is there still some building work going on which will solve the issue?
However, I was unpleasantly surprised to find myself being bussed out to the a/c and same on the way back.
Does anyone know if this will be normal procedeure going forwards or is there still some building work going on which will solve the issue?
Last edited by strake; 10th Jan 2009 at 16:17. Reason: Just noted previous response but surely bussing is not acceptable in a brand new terminal at LHR?
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Is it my imagination or has UK Border control slowed down so that we now think they are really going to clamp down on illegals? Good spin, but hardly worth while!!!
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Does anyone know if this will be normal procedeure going forwards or is there still some building work going on which will solve the issue?
BTW, has anyone else noticed that the BAA cheapskates have reduced the building area of T5B which is why you have those extremely long jetways to the end stands? Also, from the look of the T5C, they have decided to save loads of money by building it to a cheaper design (none of the intricate roof support trusses of T5A and T5B).
This bussing to and from the A/C seems to be mainly European thing. I don't remember it at Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, Phoenix or Los Angeles. But at Heathrow, Charles de Gaulle, Frankfurt, Nice......Pity, because it's a pain the a**e!
I went BA from T5 to Vancouver last month. T5 was brand new, the terminal at Vancouver is about 10 years old. What a comparison !
Just can't believe how poorly designed so many aspects of T5 are in comparison. The information monitors are like something out of the stone age for their usefulness compared to those in Vancouver (where, for example, they show at the baggage carousel the local TV news, with Teletext subtitles, to while away the few minutes before your bag appears).
Imbecile design issues like the shuttle to T5B, which is a multi-car train, and so it deposits a large number of people all at once every few minutes, feeding a single up escalator, which is an optimum method for a steady flow of passengers. So as soon as the shuttle arrives there is a huge scrum for the escalator which takes a couple of minutes to subside. Then finally it's all quiet and deserted, then the same happens again. It's as if the architects have never designed a large building before.
In the reverse direction the shuttle cannot handle passengers per minute at the rate they disembark from a 747 arrival, so many arriving passengers were missing the next or even the second shuttle because of the crush.
Security that took 20 minutes to get through on a normal of-peak afternoon. The layout issues slowing down their throughput were plain to see. The whole security area seemed to be squashed in so there was space for a "Win a Ferrari" promotion in the middle of the floor as you exited, which of course had all the space they wanted.
The route to the departure gates is amazingly non-intuitive.
For domestic departures BAA seem to have added about 30 minutes, at least, to the time it used to take from London to getting on board a BA T1 departure in the old days.
Even their retail side is poor. Plenty of shops selling inappropriate items like jewellry with nobody,absolutely nobody, buying them, while it is impossible to get any catering at a level between Gordon Ramsay's high-priced place and a huge queue for the couple of Costa Coffee type cafes who never seem to clear their tables.
Down in baggage claim, the BAA signage all points to "Baggage Enquiries" while the BA sign over the desk says "Customer Service". How on earth can the two not have got their words consistent ? Did they ever speak to each other ?
Heathrow is a money-making plain box. Vancouver was interesting architecture, all sorts of notable things throughout - and apparently done at a fraction of the cost. And no queues, despite it being a day of snow disruption.
The sooner BAA/Ferrovial are made to sell off EVERY one of their UK airports, the better.
Just can't believe how poorly designed so many aspects of T5 are in comparison. The information monitors are like something out of the stone age for their usefulness compared to those in Vancouver (where, for example, they show at the baggage carousel the local TV news, with Teletext subtitles, to while away the few minutes before your bag appears).
Imbecile design issues like the shuttle to T5B, which is a multi-car train, and so it deposits a large number of people all at once every few minutes, feeding a single up escalator, which is an optimum method for a steady flow of passengers. So as soon as the shuttle arrives there is a huge scrum for the escalator which takes a couple of minutes to subside. Then finally it's all quiet and deserted, then the same happens again. It's as if the architects have never designed a large building before.
In the reverse direction the shuttle cannot handle passengers per minute at the rate they disembark from a 747 arrival, so many arriving passengers were missing the next or even the second shuttle because of the crush.
Security that took 20 minutes to get through on a normal of-peak afternoon. The layout issues slowing down their throughput were plain to see. The whole security area seemed to be squashed in so there was space for a "Win a Ferrari" promotion in the middle of the floor as you exited, which of course had all the space they wanted.
The route to the departure gates is amazingly non-intuitive.
For domestic departures BAA seem to have added about 30 minutes, at least, to the time it used to take from London to getting on board a BA T1 departure in the old days.
Even their retail side is poor. Plenty of shops selling inappropriate items like jewellry with nobody,absolutely nobody, buying them, while it is impossible to get any catering at a level between Gordon Ramsay's high-priced place and a huge queue for the couple of Costa Coffee type cafes who never seem to clear their tables.
Down in baggage claim, the BAA signage all points to "Baggage Enquiries" while the BA sign over the desk says "Customer Service". How on earth can the two not have got their words consistent ? Did they ever speak to each other ?
Heathrow is a money-making plain box. Vancouver was interesting architecture, all sorts of notable things throughout - and apparently done at a fraction of the cost. And no queues, despite it being a day of snow disruption.
The sooner BAA/Ferrovial are made to sell off EVERY one of their UK airports, the better.
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I agree that Vancouver is a pleasant airport to use but there will be no metro rail link until the Winter Olympics, the "Airporter" coach to/from downtown is very expensive and the local Translink bus only serves the domestic terminal (with passengers who use it having to change to get to/from downtown).
I think that compared with Heathrow, Vancouver simply has the capacity to cope with the numbers using it. For example, I've never had to queue when using the FastTrack security line.
(During the recent snow, though, there was absolute mayhem when it came to locating "lost" luggage.)
I think that compared with Heathrow, Vancouver simply has the capacity to cope with the numbers using it. For example, I've never had to queue when using the FastTrack security line.
(During the recent snow, though, there was absolute mayhem when it came to locating "lost" luggage.)
Anyway this is a Heathrow thread
Last edited by WHBM; 12th Jan 2009 at 16:32.