grumpy at aircraft when asked for boarding pass. why?

[flyflybaby]

Yes it is, passports and boarding cards an be swapped and people can board a plane they are not supposed to be on. You dont realise how important it is to ceck this. In the airport i work in the airport authority regularly send people on flights who have to swap boarding cards or passports to see if staff are checking them. If those undercover pax get through the gate that staff member WILL be fired.

So yes it is neccessary for security to check a passport at the gate along with the boarding card.

[christep]

Originally Posted by flyflybaby

So yes it is neccessary for security to check a passport at the gate along with the boarding card.

No it is NOT. It is absolutely nothing to do with security. It may be important for the airline's revenue protection or for immigration reasons but neither of these is a security issue.

The fact that it is airline employees running these test just highlights that it is a revenue protection issue. Surely you can understand the difference can't you?

[Final 3 Greens]

all European/US/CA/ME carriers I have flown on as pax (even staff & Dead Head) have checked boarding pass on boarding.

Swiss do not.

Lufthansa do not.

Air Malta do not.

[christep]

American Airlines does not.
Cathay Pacific does, but only to point you at your seat (if you tell them your seat number and clearly know where you are going then they don't require your boarding pass)

[flyflybaby]

No i said airport authority not airline employees. The airport authority is run by the government they dont care if the airline incurs penalties for transporting the wrong passengers. they are there to make sure the security laws are enforced.
what would happen if a pax went through the gate without showing their passport and arrived in their destination to find the passport was left at security. you would have a pax that has travelled without a passport.

that means big trouble wether you believe it or not.

[mutt]

On my last flight outta the USA, immigration cleared, boarding passes checked at the gate, immigration checked passports and boarding cards in the airbridge, cabin crew checked boarding cards at the door. Onboard, cabin attendants collected ALL PASSPORTS for inspection, at this stage we had overstayed our time at that parking gate so the aircraft was repositioned, we then got our passports back.... Total delay almost 2 hours!!!!

Mutt

[christep]

Originally Posted by flyflybaby

you would have a pax that has travelled without a passport.

I'll try just one more time. Please explain to us how a passenger travelling without a passport endangers the security of the flight.

[flyflybaby]

it may or may not affect the security of the flight but it would be a security breach which is apparently very dangerous, dont ask me why,
thats just the way things are.

[christep]

Oh dear. I rest my case.

[PaperTiger]

Wasting your time, Chris. They have been assimilated.

[boardingpass]

christep,
I can't understand why you fail to acknowledge that if someone tries to board an aircraft who is not authorised, it is a matter of security. Are you seriously suggesting we as cabin crew aren't concerned about security? Believe it or not, security and safety are the two things we spend the majority of our time training for, talking about and while as passengers you don't see most of it, it is also what we spend the majority of our time on... There are many people on no-fly lists who, for one reason or another, are not allowed to fly. So, whether it's a stow-away trying to hitch a free ride, or a suicide bomber with a backpack.... either you have a valid boarding pass, or the appropriate authorisation to board, or you're not coming on. I think the majority of the flying public would want that we check you're permitted to board the aircraft and therefore the majority are happy to comply... there's only a few 'holier than thou' such as yourself who seem to think they are above it all... so why not teach us something else now?

[fyrefli]

He's trying to teach you reasoned debate. Unfortunately your latest contribution is so full of unsubstantiated logical jumps I'm not surprised he's given up

Here's a starter for ten:

Which is more dangerous?:

a) a suicide bomber with a backpack and his own boarding card
b) a suicide bomber with a backpack and a boarding card for the wrong flight
c) a suicide bomber with a backpack and no boarding card
d) a suicide bomber with a backpack and someone else's boarding card

??

[boardingpass]

Thanks for your pearl of wisdom Fyrefli! For the rest of cabin crew reading this, let's just smile at the very clever SLF when we next ask "May I see your boarding class please?"

[malc4d]

Ok, to all CC or most prob. to their bosses.

If l want to fly a - b but not b-a back, instead of throwing my return half of the ticket away i give it to a friend who wants to fly b-a.
Now we both have passports to show at check-in but the return ticket is in my name, they cant fly.........But surely a bum on the seat is a bum on the seat, does it really matter who's.

Now is this for a security reason or (more likely) a profit reason

[christep]

Originally Posted by boardingpass

Thanks for your pearl of wisdom Fyrefli! For the rest of cabin crew reading this, let's just smile at the very clever SLF when we next ask "May I see your boarding class please?"

I think that's probably the best course because you clearly don't have any understanding whatsoever of why you are doing it. I'm sure you are concerned about security, but you have clearly demonstrated that you don't have the intelligence to be more than a pawn in the process.

A stowaway hitching a free ride is not in itself a security issue. It is a revenue protection issue, just the same as if I get on a bus without paying.

Checking that somebody has a boarding pass doesn't achieve anything for security. You aren't checking that they are someone who is not allowed to fly, you aren't even checking if they are the person who is named on the boarding pass. And you certainly aren't checking whether they have in their possession any means to disrupt the security of the flight.

The only purpose that is served by checking a boarding pass at the door is to be a last check that someone is not getting on the wrong plane. This is entirely a revenue protection issue. It has nothing to do with security.

I'm sure all passengers want maximum effort to be made to protect the security of the flight. (Although quite why planes should be singled out rather than all the other places that terrorists could kill hundreds of people very simply is another matter.)

Securing the cockpit door was by FAR the single most significant increase in security since 9/11, thus stopping the plane being taken over and used as a missile.

Once you have done that all you need to do is to try to stop people taking on board the means to destroy the plane mid-flight. Thus, the x-raying of luggage and the WTMD, which are useful security procedures.

The liquids ban, as currently implemented, is not a useful security procedure, as explained by Bruce Schneier, a professional security expert, here.

[boardingpass]

But surely a bum on the seat is a bum on the seat, does it really matter who's.

Well, if they are on a no-fly list, it is a matter of security! Perhaps your mate isn't entitled to purchase a ticket in their own name because on the last flight they were on they got really drunk and tried to open a door (read one example here). Perhaps they've attacked another passenger or physically assaulted a cabin crew or security staff (another example here). Perhaps they've otherwise jeopardised or made a threat against the safety of the plane. Perhaps they're under investigation for a crime and have had their passport confiscated. And if they start getting violent or causing a problem during the flight, guess who's going to have to deal with it?

I work in Europe, so I can't confirm the situation for AA or CX, but if it's an EU-OPS regulated flight, it is a requirement that anyone who enters a plane is authorised to, and therefore it is a requirement that the name on the boarding pass matches the photo ID of the person, and the photo ID of the person matches the person's face. Airlines may differ on how they implement this. On my airline, my colleague at the gate will check the photo ID, and then the cabin crew at the door checks you've been through the normal passenger route in possession of a valid boarding pass (i.e. haven't jumped over the airport fence to get onto the apron or you're not an airside garbage man who's just been made redundant with a score to settle.) It also helps to ensure the pax manifest is accurate. As already said, it helps identify pax who are by accident trying to board the wrong plane (a regular occurrence), and then finally, it lets us separate those who need to turn left from those who need to turn right...

If you only want to go from a to b, one-way tickets are available on most airlines (provided you can meet immigration rules - for example, many countries require tourists have an outbound ticket).

Otherwise, you're always welcome to take the train (although I'm sure they'll still ask to see your ticket).

[fyrefli]

Originally Posted by boardingpass

Thanks for your pearl of wisdom Fyrefli! For the rest of cabin crew reading this, let's just smile at the very clever SLF when we next ask "May I see your boarding class please?"

BP, if I'm ever boarding one of your flights, I'll not only be one of those walking up the steps / down the bridge with his boarding pass stub in his hand but will also be presenting it to you in my long accustomed manner, placed next to my photo in my opened passport. I have no problem with this.

I do have an issue with CC who think they are better than their passengers. This comes from 1) several years spent earlier in my life in high quality customer service roles and 2) a couple of experiences where obnoxious CC's attitudes have been counter-productive.

[Final 3 Greens]

Boardingpass

Quite often rail tickets are not inspected, e.g. my journey on the Heathrow Express yesterday.

Nonetheless, the NRCoC of the UK ATOC says

A ticket may only be used by the person for whom it has been bought. It may not be resold or passed on to anyone else unless this is specifically allowed by the terms and conditions which apply to that ticket and which are set out in the notices and publications of the relevant Train Company.

Clearly this a revenue protection step - even though a train ticket does not include the name of the passenger

If the airlines did not run some type of revenue protection scheme, then people would book early and resell, at a profit, on eBay, just like ticket touts.

So there is a strong element of revenue protection in airline procedures, which makes sense.

or you're not an airside garbage man who's just been made redundant with a score to settle

Good job that airside garbage men, with a score to settle, can't afford free tickets from a well known loco

Can we just agree that the reason boarding passes are checked at the door by UK carrier is that the UK authorities require this?

And as many people from the rest of Europe say, the UK is different in many ways.....

[christep]

Originally Posted by boardingpass

Well, if they are on a no-fly list, it is a matter of security!

To some extent yes, although for people allegedly there for terrorist reasons but with no previous convictions then if there isn't enough evidence to jail them then it is, in my view, an unacceptable infringement of their civil rights to ban them from flying "on a hunch". Clearly this doesn't apply to people who are on the list for a proven previous record.

Originally Posted by boardingpass

it is a requirement that the name on the boarding pass matches the photo ID of the person, and the photo ID of the person matches the person's face. Airlines may differ on how they implement this. On my airline, my colleague at the gate will check the photo ID, and then the cabin crew at the door checks you've been through the normal passenger route in possession of a valid boarding pass (i.e. haven't jumped over the airport fence to get onto the apron or you're not an airside garbage man who's just been made redundant with a score to settle.) It also helps to ensure the pax manifest is accurate.

You might wish to point out to the people in your airline that in the days of "print your own" boarding passes there is one very crucial step missing:

No-one checks that the name on the boarding pass (which is trivial to manipulate before printing it at home) matches the name on the passenger manifest (i.e. the name in which the ticket was bought, which is where the checking against the no-fly list is done).

This is such a glaringly obvious hole that it renders the whole process useless for increasing security.

Again in the days of print your own boarding passes, your check at the door does NOT achieve what you say about people somehow getting there without going through the normal processes. The check that DOES achieve that to some extent is the headcount match against the manifest. But even then there is still a glaring hole in that if it is possible to get in that way then it is also likely possible that someone can get out that way, so two people can effectively swap on the airbridge. So again, the check at the door doesn't achieve anything much for security (although it does for revenue protection).

[Skipness One Echo]

The reason that both Ryanair, easyJet and flybe insist on photo ID is REVENUE PROTECTION. It means if I book a cheap fare I can afford to miss and give to a mate for free, they won't allow it and inist he books full whack if he wants to travel.

This is why I much prefer BA and bmi who don't add ANOTHER layer of fussiness onto my journey within my own country. ( BA sometimes need the bankcard used to make the booking but that's not always the case. )

Unless the girl at the gate is a moron, there is no real reason why the cabin crew should need to recheck the documentation 30 seconds later. In Paris at CDG last week, I met a G4S man complete with rucksack, clearly leaving the area with his shift finished, on the walk from the gate down the long secure passageway to the airbridge. He gives me a funny look, stops me in my tracks and asks for ID! That's what happens when you wear a hoody when not at work in a suit. I gritted my teeth and presented my ID AGAIN....

You are making compliant sheep of us all damn you. * Baaaaaah*

There is a corrosive effect over time :
"May I see your papers?" "They are in order, you MAY proceed."
"May I see your papers?" "They are in order, you MAY proceed."
"May I see your papers?" "They are in order, you MAY proceed."

Minimise the above as it's a pain, just remove the duplication and be consistent, because when different carriers do this differently you know it's not about security.