grumpy at aircraft when asked for boarding pass. why?
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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I've been interested how many posters jump on the security bandwagon and assumed that when the word security is spoken it ONLY refers to the post 9/11 procedures.
As far as I am aware boarding cards were checked on the aircraft prior to that event and again one of the reasons would have been security. But bear in mind that the definition of the word security covers many things, it may be being used as a reference to internal security policies of the airlines and nothing at all to do with terrorists threats.
It is only the objectors that have taken the "must be anti-terrorist" view of the word security.
Yes it's about revenue protection, correct passenger lists, not ending up with passengers at the wrong destination, not having to sort arguments about seating (i.e. two passengers with the same seat - one on the wrong flight) and I'm sure many other factors. In reality as lot of the above issues will come, in some organisations, under the umbrella of security and there may even be a "security" department within the airline that deals with these policies.
So in many cases the term security correctly applies to this procedure.
An example where I work
Computer security - passwords etc.
Site security - making sure we know who is in our buildings, fire regulation requirement
System security - to keep the leccy flowing
Operational security - to stop folks getting killed in substations
Financial security - the manage the companied finances
Not one of the above deals with any external threats (and we do have them)
As far as I am aware boarding cards were checked on the aircraft prior to that event and again one of the reasons would have been security. But bear in mind that the definition of the word security covers many things, it may be being used as a reference to internal security policies of the airlines and nothing at all to do with terrorists threats.
It is only the objectors that have taken the "must be anti-terrorist" view of the word security.
Yes it's about revenue protection, correct passenger lists, not ending up with passengers at the wrong destination, not having to sort arguments about seating (i.e. two passengers with the same seat - one on the wrong flight) and I'm sure many other factors. In reality as lot of the above issues will come, in some organisations, under the umbrella of security and there may even be a "security" department within the airline that deals with these policies.
So in many cases the term security correctly applies to this procedure.
An example where I work
Computer security - passwords etc.
Site security - making sure we know who is in our buildings, fire regulation requirement
System security - to keep the leccy flowing
Operational security - to stop folks getting killed in substations
Financial security - the manage the companied finances
Not one of the above deals with any external threats (and we do have them)
Paxing All Over The World
Boss Raptor
I would hazard a guess that it is job creation. In South Africa (as in many countries) it is often better to have staff being paid a small amount to do simple jobs, than to have more people unemployed.
One example is a road-working crew in a Third World country. You could have a very expensive machine that needs to be fuelled and maintained in a tricky climate far from it's base with one man - or you could half a dozen men earning a living wage. The second may well be cheaper in the long run.
PS. In Joburg I was a given a further plastic security tag by a security bloke at top of jetway (after airline gate check at boarding) which u then gave to yet another clown standing in front of the door...approx 7 metres down the jetway with no means of access...work that one out
One example is a road-working crew in a Third World country. You could have a very expensive machine that needs to be fuelled and maintained in a tricky climate far from it's base with one man - or you could half a dozen men earning a living wage. The second may well be cheaper in the long run.
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When the second flight is due to go, there's the problem, there are cases onboard with no passenger,
It's a simple way of making sure some idiot doesn't get on the wrong plane!
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an amazing debate . . . . . . . . ! !
Just SO many different aspects and situations and opinions to encompass . . . ! !
STILL rolling along, more than a hundred posts later ! !
I'm genuinely amazed that it has proved to be such a controversial requirement
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Well if you keep treating us like morons don't be so surprised we get flustered and occasionally lost.
A different mode of transport
Euston Station, departure board shows two trains to two different destinations on adjacent platforms.
Tickets checked as you go down the ramp to platforms, inspectors directing folk to the correct train.
On the train doors in cheerful yellow LED's the train's destination.
Four folk get on to first class (business suits etc. I put that in to suggest they may be reasonably intelligent) and begin arguing that some other people are sat in their seats. Train manager called who points out that the four that have just got on are on the wrong train and theirs has just left.
No security checks, departure board correct, tickets checked, directed to the correct train and signs on every door showing destination.
Could they use your excuse?
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So we lower everyone to the lowest common denominator as we're all potential morons / terrorists needing continual guidance from people in dayglo yellow? Yes of course we do, we live in New Labours Britain in 1984....er 2008.
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AH!
The Mark drops!
The lowest common denominator in the boarding pass monster post - airport security peoples-quasi Stasi.
That is really the reason everyone is so Grumpy by the time of arrival at boarding hatch!
The Mark drops!
The lowest common denominator in the boarding pass monster post - airport security peoples-quasi Stasi.
That is really the reason everyone is so Grumpy by the time of arrival at boarding hatch!
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Yep
The age of people using.having common sense has gone
The age of people being allowed to use common sense has gone in a lot of cases
So in most cases procedures are put in place to allow for the lowest common denominator.
The age of people using.having common sense has gone
The age of people being allowed to use common sense has gone in a lot of cases
So in most cases procedures are put in place to allow for the lowest common denominator.
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The Times and other media have reports today that BAA Security at LGW are so busy looking for bottles of water and yoghurts that the testers manged to smuggle fake bomb making equipment through.
That should not be a surprise as the system has x amount of ability to look for things and 0.9x is looking for non lethal shampoo.....
That should not be a surprise as the system has x amount of ability to look for things and 0.9x is looking for non lethal shampoo.....
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Getting on the wrong aircraft would be entirely possible at, for example, Valencia where Ryanair flights depart at much the same time and where recently passengers for Stansted (myself included) descended steps from the terminal to the tarmac to see one of Mr O'Leary's shiny Boeings - only this one was going to Rome! The Stansted 'plane was farther away!
The Analog Kid
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Originally Posted by West Lakes
Yep
The age of people using.having common sense has gone
The age of people being allowed to use common sense has gone in a lot of cases
So in most cases procedures are put in place to allow for the lowest common denominator.
The age of people using.having common sense has gone
The age of people being allowed to use common sense has gone in a lot of cases
So in most cases procedures are put in place to allow for the lowest common denominator.
That one of my larger clients is an online insurance company certainly helps - after all, they don't actually want to insure morons, so it's a nice bit of self-selection!
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el your arguments are very repetitive. im new to this particular thread and have read all previous posts. you seem to articulate the same opinion over and over. i would be very interested to know what line of work you are in?
Thread Starter
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hippotamus, just for the record I would never greet any of my pax by their first names, far too familiar and just not the done thing! strictly Mr and Mrs surnames only.
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Quite right, the thing that pi$$es me off is that there are inconsistancies, here's this months:
No kids in BA Silver lounge at T5
Kids in BA Silver lounge at Term E in ZRH
Kids in BA Silver lounge at MIA
Check boarding Passes - KLM in ZRH
No check boarding passes LX in AMS
Boarding pass and passport compared at gate before entry to waiting area - LX in D term at AMS
Boarding pass and passport compared at gate after waiting area - KL in in D term at AMS
Security check at airside - AMS for gates D57+
Security check at gate - AMS for gates D1-56
KLM e-boarding pass is one page printout
LX e-boarding pass is two pages of printout
2 security checks for flights to UK at FRA
1 security check for flights to SG at FRA
it goes on, and this is my month's recent travel.
When you **** pax around like this, you gotta expect some feedback. Not your fault but you are the face of the company. Of course, if I only flew one airline everywhere I'd be far more ignorant and far happier.
No kids in BA Silver lounge at T5
Kids in BA Silver lounge at Term E in ZRH
Kids in BA Silver lounge at MIA
Check boarding Passes - KLM in ZRH
No check boarding passes LX in AMS
Boarding pass and passport compared at gate before entry to waiting area - LX in D term at AMS
Boarding pass and passport compared at gate after waiting area - KL in in D term at AMS
Security check at airside - AMS for gates D57+
Security check at gate - AMS for gates D1-56
KLM e-boarding pass is one page printout
LX e-boarding pass is two pages of printout
2 security checks for flights to UK at FRA
1 security check for flights to SG at FRA
it goes on, and this is my month's recent travel.
When you **** pax around like this, you gotta expect some feedback. Not your fault but you are the face of the company. Of course, if I only flew one airline everywhere I'd be far more ignorant and far happier.
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Mr Quite Happy,
If you exchange "boarding pass" for "ID", it's just like us going to work.! Different airports have different procedures. Ok, we're wearing our IDs, but we still have to stop and hold it up for them,at check-in, security and before we can get on the plane.
I'm not complaining, just pointing out that we have to go through similar things to you..
Apart from flying from LHR,(where we have separate security, and that's for a whole other thread.!!), we go through exactly the same security you do..it maybe sometimes a different channel, but it's the same security.
We're not ****ing you around..
If you exchange "boarding pass" for "ID", it's just like us going to work.! Different airports have different procedures. Ok, we're wearing our IDs, but we still have to stop and hold it up for them,at check-in, security and before we can get on the plane.
I'm not complaining, just pointing out that we have to go through similar things to you..
Apart from flying from LHR,(where we have separate security, and that's for a whole other thread.!!), we go through exactly the same security you do..it maybe sometimes a different channel, but it's the same security.
We're not ****ing you around..
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not you my friend, not you.
The airline along with the airports are. Not on an individual basis, but collectively.
They're screwing with you too.
Here's a few basic truths, abreviated because I'm looking after two boys (2y and 5m) at the moment.
easy is repetative, repetative is easy.
variable processes are inefficient and inefficient processes vary.
efficiency = profit, inefficiency = loss
Based on those truisms.....
The airlines and the airports are ******* their Pax around. And probably more than any other industry anywere in the world (though I'd be interested to hear from others!).
A lot of it is revenue protection.
It is no wonder that 'new' airlines and airports can come along and be successful if they don't have the appalling process-baggage of an established airline or airport.
The airline along with the airports are. Not on an individual basis, but collectively.
They're screwing with you too.
Here's a few basic truths, abreviated because I'm looking after two boys (2y and 5m) at the moment.
easy is repetative, repetative is easy.
variable processes are inefficient and inefficient processes vary.
efficiency = profit, inefficiency = loss
Based on those truisms.....
The airlines and the airports are ******* their Pax around. And probably more than any other industry anywere in the world (though I'd be interested to hear from others!).
A lot of it is revenue protection.
It is no wonder that 'new' airlines and airports can come along and be successful if they don't have the appalling process-baggage of an established airline or airport.
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I really don't understand why people get so hot under the collar, it takes a few seconds to show your boarding pass to the crew on the plane, and as my grandmother used to say "Manners cost nothing".
Yes, I am a frequent flyer, yes, having idiots in front of me who cant find their boarding cards at the plane irks me, but hey, we can't all be perfect. It doesn't hurt to smile at the crew and wish them good (morning/afternoon/evening) as you board a plane.
Perhaps we shouldn't let grumpy people out of the country, brings down the reputation to the outside world!
Yes, I am a frequent flyer, yes, having idiots in front of me who cant find their boarding cards at the plane irks me, but hey, we can't all be perfect. It doesn't hurt to smile at the crew and wish them good (morning/afternoon/evening) as you board a plane.
Perhaps we shouldn't let grumpy people out of the country, brings down the reputation to the outside world!
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May I suggest that, entirely accidentally, all this inconsistency enhances security?
The terrorist needs to know in advance what the system is in order to spot how to defeat it. He wants a high degree of certainty in that process. If the process keeps changing, and has no consistency to it, it makes his task that much more difficult. Now of course the tidy minds haven't designed the system that way, and the chaos isn't intelligent chaos, but it's better than complete predictability, no?
Sven
The terrorist needs to know in advance what the system is in order to spot how to defeat it. He wants a high degree of certainty in that process. If the process keeps changing, and has no consistency to it, it makes his task that much more difficult. Now of course the tidy minds haven't designed the system that way, and the chaos isn't intelligent chaos, but it's better than complete predictability, no?
Sven
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I can't belive this thread has gone on for so long, how long does it take to get you're boarding card out show it to the crew ????!!! It WILL take longer if pax huff and puff, and swear are you, and what, for the sake of 5 seconds?
Grow up.
Grow up.