T5 is working
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T5 isn't working
I'm hoping it's now got to the stage (5 months since opening) where we can openly discuss the place.
Despite having first visited the place when it was all 'hard hats and ladders' my first departure from there wasn't until BA738 on 10th August. Mission aborted at the last minute due to the ATC Tower Fire (alarm ?) - I considered this to be exceptional circumstances and accepted BA's handling despite it taking over 2 hours from the cancellation announcement to getting on the Hoppa to the Renaissance. Some humour was added to the proceedings by being 'dealt with' by Jeremy Spake.
24th August BA738 - all worked fine - see T5 is working
31st August BA738 - exact rerun of 10th August but no excuse given this time - do BA not know how to deal with customers
A few cancelled flights led to c.1,000 people milling around in the check in area being watched by officious oafs with clipboards whilst most of the Customer Service desks remained unmanned. Again 2 hours from cancellation to leaving the building and amazed the police didn't end up being called to deal with the unhappy, kept in the dark, fare paying CUSTOMERS.
I've been supportive of both the place and the companies involved but enough is enough - I may have had bad luck but a 33% success factor is not good enough - time to try LCY-GVA and watch BA sink gracefully.
Despite having first visited the place when it was all 'hard hats and ladders' my first departure from there wasn't until BA738 on 10th August. Mission aborted at the last minute due to the ATC Tower Fire (alarm ?) - I considered this to be exceptional circumstances and accepted BA's handling despite it taking over 2 hours from the cancellation announcement to getting on the Hoppa to the Renaissance. Some humour was added to the proceedings by being 'dealt with' by Jeremy Spake.
24th August BA738 - all worked fine - see T5 is working
31st August BA738 - exact rerun of 10th August but no excuse given this time - do BA not know how to deal with customers
A few cancelled flights led to c.1,000 people milling around in the check in area being watched by officious oafs with clipboards whilst most of the Customer Service desks remained unmanned. Again 2 hours from cancellation to leaving the building and amazed the police didn't end up being called to deal with the unhappy, kept in the dark, fare paying CUSTOMERS.I've been supportive of both the place and the companies involved but enough is enough - I may have had bad luck but a 33% success factor is not good enough - time to try LCY-GVA and watch BA sink gracefully.
Last edited by k3lvc; 2nd Sep 2008 at 10:48.
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FYI - LHR had to cancel a lot of flights because of weather conditions (see http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...ons-today.html). While we were all caught out in it (me ex-DUB into LTN instead of LHR), that does not mean T5 is not working. You should've seen LTN. None of the airport employees were remotely helpful with the exception of one baggage handler who offered to look for the passenger information people, but, alas, they were no-where to be found.
S.
S.
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Thanks for the link - might have ben useful if BA were passing on this message rather than leaving people in the dark.
As previously when T5 works it's great but when it doesn't it certainly cannot claim to be world class and something we should be proud of.
As previously when T5 works it's great but when it doesn't it certainly cannot claim to be world class and something we should be proud of.
Skipness
Be fair -Longhaul "en-masse move phase One" went OK ( I'm an arch cynic and even I was pleasantly surprised), but you are right, there's still a lot of traffic out of T4 that's got to fit into T5...that could be fun.
Then again T5 is already v tatty behind the scenes, guess there not a lot in the budget for routine care and cleaning.
Then again T5 is already v tatty behind the scenes, guess there not a lot in the budget for routine care and cleaning.
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The argument that BAA makes is reasonably compelling. When there is not much left in terms of capacity, what can you do when your ops are disrupted, other than cancel and divert? Some airlines diverted (i.e. EI), others just cancelled flights (BA).
Granted, BA could've told people why flights were cancelled, but then again, the customer advisors are probably so far down the chain that all they get is "due to technical problems" instead of "due to weather causing cancellations".
I've seen this in the past, except it was the other way round... the higher the report went, the shorter and more vague it got, until the CEO got a two line summary of what went on, and was nowhere NEAR what really happened. I would not be surprised if that's not been the case here.
S.
Granted, BA could've told people why flights were cancelled, but then again, the customer advisors are probably so far down the chain that all they get is "due to technical problems" instead of "due to weather causing cancellations".
I've seen this in the past, except it was the other way round... the higher the report went, the shorter and more vague it got, until the CEO got a two line summary of what went on, and was nowhere NEAR what really happened. I would not be surprised if that's not been the case here.
S.
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In reality my issue isn't with the lack of communication but their inability to handle what, to me, seems to be a frequent occurence of canx flights. From the BA North Lounge we were sent to Central Customer Service (gate 12-13 area) then to gate 21 then through passport control, baggage reclaim, into arrivals then back up to departures - a nice 20 min walk to arrive 100 metres from the Lounge I was in.
Being aware of the much vaunted Architects views of the building as providing a stress free environment I do hope he never has to travel through there and suffer a canx flight.
Once back in the check in area there was absolutely no system - the staff should have had plenty of notice that 1,000 pax were about to descend on them and have been organised accordingly with queues clearly marked instead of the free-for-all that occurred.
Maybe the circumstances are exceptional but twice in 3 visits tells me it's the norm.
Being aware of the much vaunted Architects views of the building as providing a stress free environment I do hope he never has to travel through there and suffer a canx flight.
Once back in the check in area there was absolutely no system - the staff should have had plenty of notice that 1,000 pax were about to descend on them and have been organised accordingly with queues clearly marked instead of the free-for-all that occurred.
Maybe the circumstances are exceptional but twice in 3 visits tells me it's the norm.
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I've been there dozens of times and never experienced anything like that so I'd say my experience is probably the norm. Far from this being a T5 issue, do you think it would be any better handled if it had occurred in any of the other Heathrow terminals? Is your complaint that T5 isn't working or that the staff didn't know what they were doing?
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I'd say my experience is probably the norm
I've been one (inbound) and thought the terminal was a disappointment.
If ZRH has an indicator to tell you the platform for the next shuttle,why can't T5 have one? I (amongst about 50 others) had to rush from one platform to the other to avoid missing the shuttle - completely ridiculous and avoidable.
Once landside, it was difficult to find anyone to get information, the signage wasn't great and I thought that the area after clearing customs was pretty small for the size of the terminal.
What was a major improvement was the handling of busses - top marks for that.
All in all, it's not bad, but given it is an April 2008 launch, I did expect better.
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Is your complaint that T5 isn't working or that the staff didn't know what they were doing?
Your post reassures me that it's not the norm but a responsive Customer Service team in the event of difficulties rather than Jobsworths with clipboards would do far more to encourage me to continue using it.
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Nothing to do with T5 on the 31st August, the thunderstorms would have had a similar affect if it was anywhere else.
Yes it is 100 metres but don;t forget you are in the departures area and can't just walk back through where you came from check in. If you are 'landing' then you need to go through the proper channels back to immigration, hence the long way round to go what is a short distance in reality.
Having 1000 pax descend on anyone at short notice isn't the easiest thing to handle at the best of times.
It is certainly not the norm, just unlucky that you happended to be flying during these events. Hope it is easier if there is a next time.
In reality my issue isn't with the lack of communication but their inability to handle what, to me, seems to be a frequent occurence of canx flights. From the BA North Lounge we were sent to Central Customer Service (gate 12-13 area) then to gate 21 then through passport control, baggage reclaim, into arrivals then back up to departures - a nice 20 min walk to arrive 100 metres from the Lounge I was in.
Once back in the check in area there was absolutely no system - the staff should have had plenty of notice that 1,000 pax were about to descend on them and have been organised accordingly with queues clearly marked instead of the free-for-all that occurred.
Maybe the circumstances are exceptional but twice in 3 visits tells me it's the norm.
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Yes it is 100 metres but don;t forget you are in the departures area and can't just walk back through where you came from check in. If you are 'landing' then you need to go through the proper channels back to immigration, hence the long way round to go what is a short distance in reality.
Having 1000 pax descend on anyone at short notice isn't the easiest thing to handle at the best of times.
I've no doubt I'll have to travel through the place again despite my (foreign) boss trying to ban me from using BA however I'll seriously consider waiting landside until the 35 min deadline if there's any doubt in my mind that the flight'll be going.
Paxing All Over The World
Listening to the radio in the car today and, changing channels came in half way through an advert 'T5 is working'. I heard how they had spoken to n people yesterday and how quick part of their transit through T5 had been. Personally, I would have waited to do the 'Working' campaign until after all the flights had transferred. They only need a small amount of disruption before it's complete and all this money will be down the drain and they will have more ridicule in the press.
I have not had to use T5 yet but the process of delivering my sister there five weeks ago revealed that many signs on the roads outside as much as those inside, were not in place and that staff with official uniforms on did not know where a particular place was and showed zero interest in trying to help me locate it. (Waving her hand) "It's over there ..." It wasn't and I was not impressed.
I have not had to use T5 yet but the process of delivering my sister there five weeks ago revealed that many signs on the roads outside as much as those inside, were not in place and that staff with official uniforms on did not know where a particular place was and showed zero interest in trying to help me locate it. (Waving her hand) "It's over there ..." It wasn't and I was not impressed.
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Having 1000 pax descend on anyone at short notice isn't the easiest thing to handle at the best of times.
Preprepared contingency plans?
Extra personnel called in?
Plans executed, pax disruption reduced?
Nothing to do with T5 on the 31st August, the thunderstorms would have had a similar affect if it was anywhere else.
LHR is runway constrained, whereas some other airports are not. So some other airports may have been able to maintain a hgiher flow rate post event, positively impacting the situation.
A terminal is only as good as the airport's ability to support movements and T5 is a modern terminal at an old (small) site and one must assess the whole package, not just the new shiny bit.
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IMO the security check as you come in to T5 (from T4 for example) is poorly designed / laid out. If PAX are queing back out the automatic doors then it's wrong, and then you have to grab your stuff from the tray before it disappears through an automatic tray stacker on the other side.
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Severe weather warnings, several hours in advance?
Preprepared contingency plans?
Extra personnel called in?
Plans executed, pax disruption reduced?
Preprepared contingency plans?
Extra personnel called in?
Plans executed, pax disruption reduced?
Paxing All Over The World
Whilst working in IT for 25 + years, I was in a very wide range of companies (both as full time and contractor and consultant). These were across the South East of England and in other countries. The one consistent factor was "How can we employ less people?"
From that stemmed shortcuts, cutbacks, a desire to automate as much as possible and then outsource the rest. When 'managers' were given budgetary control and made 'departmental profit centres' they quickly lost any interest in other parts of the business. Instead of seeing themselves as part of a process, they became the one-and-only. The idea that the company starts with (say) advertising and runs through ticket sales to the moment the client leaves an airport (over which you have little control but your staff will make YOUR client's progress smoother than any others) 10,000 miles away ... that is old history.
In short, the age old desire to lower the price so as to sell more and then make more. In this, the airline business is identical to every other. This may sound dismal and disheartning but I can only report on my 42 years of being a Pax.
From that stemmed shortcuts, cutbacks, a desire to automate as much as possible and then outsource the rest. When 'managers' were given budgetary control and made 'departmental profit centres' they quickly lost any interest in other parts of the business. Instead of seeing themselves as part of a process, they became the one-and-only. The idea that the company starts with (say) advertising and runs through ticket sales to the moment the client leaves an airport (over which you have little control but your staff will make YOUR client's progress smoother than any others) 10,000 miles away ... that is old history.
In short, the age old desire to lower the price so as to sell more and then make more. In this, the airline business is identical to every other. This may sound dismal and disheartning but I can only report on my 42 years of being a Pax.
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Severe weather warnings, several hours in advance?
Preprepared contingency plans?
Extra personnel called in?
Plans executed, pax disruption reduced?
Preprepared contingency plans?
Extra personnel called in?
Plans executed, pax disruption reduced?