Frenzied passengers on BMI charter flight at palma
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Smoke lingers , air con mist disappears, like in restaurants,bars,cars, shops in fact most places you see an air con unit!
Smoke smells, air con mist doesnt smell like smoke.
Some people
Smoke smells, air con mist doesnt smell like smoke.
Some people
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Smoke lingers , air con mist disappears, like in restaurants,bars,cars, shops in fact most places you see an air con unit!
Smoke smells, air con mist doesnt smell like smoke.
Some people
Smoke smells, air con mist doesnt smell like smoke.
Some people
Captains are sometimes generously paid for their "responsibilities" in regard to the number of souls on board, logically it should be their responsibility to prevent such situations with a proper cabin crew briefing.
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I think I'm with Rainboe on this one.
I would not allow anyone without eight bar epaulettes to bang on our flightdeck door because there are seven bars in there already.
If the crew allowed this to occur I think I would relegate them to PAX.
Rotation is a critical manouvre and if if we cant hear "pos climb...gear up"
we wont be going very far.
Just my two bobs worth of course.
I would not allow anyone without eight bar epaulettes to bang on our flightdeck door because there are seven bars in there already.
If the crew allowed this to occur I think I would relegate them to PAX.
Rotation is a critical manouvre and if if we cant hear "pos climb...gear up"
we wont be going very far.
Just my two bobs worth of course.
Commercial aviation prides itself on the "no-blame" culture as the best means of continuous improvement in flying safety. This should extend to passengers (at least to the sober, non-violent ones).
The incident occurred. It was reported. Recommendations should follow that reduce the risk of it happening again.
The incident occurred. It was reported. Recommendations should follow that reduce the risk of it happening again.
Presumably mist from the air con only occurs during certain specific ambient temperature/humidity combinations? Could these not be established and a timely warning issued in the safety briefing?
No excuse for pax getting out of their seats really in this situation I feel but this is a symptom of our culture now which knows little about rules and regulations and follows the "anything goes" chav mindset.
No excuse for pax getting out of their seats really in this situation I feel but this is a symptom of our culture now which knows little about rules and regulations and follows the "anything goes" chav mindset.
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There's a common theme running here.
The passengers on this flight appear to be morons. A large number of the posts in this thread appear to be by people on the same intellectual plain.
Just what exactly do you expect crew to do during a take off roll if a passenger stands up? The sheer ignorance on display here perfectly highlights the kind of attitude these idiots must have had. Thousands of people fly on these aircraft every single day and being bmi, the crew were without question highly trained and amongst the best in the business.
Quite simply i'd point it out as soon as was appropriate and let the crew get on with their jobs. You know, the ones they're trained for and are checked on at least twice a year. I might even offer to help. What I would not do (and assuming this report is accurate), having a modicum of intelligence, would be stand up, start shouting about fire and bang on the flight deck door during a take off roll.
Like I said, bloody idiots.
The passengers on this flight appear to be morons. A large number of the posts in this thread appear to be by people on the same intellectual plain.
Just what exactly do you expect crew to do during a take off roll if a passenger stands up? The sheer ignorance on display here perfectly highlights the kind of attitude these idiots must have had. Thousands of people fly on these aircraft every single day and being bmi, the crew were without question highly trained and amongst the best in the business.
So what would you do if convinced there was a fire in the cabin and the crew were not aware? Sit tight and pray?
Like I said, bloody idiots.
A4......"to teach the unpopular captain a lesson "
That's a rather stupid thing to say..........as if anybody's going to set up a fatal accident "to teach a lesson" !!!!!
Why is it a stupid thing to say?
That's a rather stupid thing to say..........as if anybody's going to set up a fatal accident "to teach a lesson" !!!!!
Why is it a stupid thing to say?
(The LE flaps were erroneously retracted by the first officer, thinking he'd selected the TE flaps)
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Like I said, bloody idiots.
I have the (questionable) pleasure of seeing a large cross-section of the Great British population in times of stress, and am used to how they react.
Sadly folks, there is a small but noticeable percentage who will make up their minds based on nothing more than a room temperature IQ and a LARRRGE collection of misconceptions, and who will also, when presented with anything other than validation of their own point of view, will do anything, upto and including verbal/physical violence, to avoid accepting the alternative.
These people almost invariably also believe normal rules don't apply to them, and are perfectly capable of e.g. standing up during a take-off role.
Past a certain point you can't actually manage them however hard you try, and they won't be educated, so what do you do?
Empathy
Quote from Topslide6:
The passengers on this flight appear to be morons. A large number of the posts in this thread appear to be by people on the same intellectual plain. (sic)
I've not checked your profile, but very much hope you are not cabin crew, Topslide6.
There has always been a minority of flight attendants that are incapable of looking at situations from a passenger viewpoint, and I fear this may be increasing since 9/11.
If the first passenger to cry fire had never seen a cloud of condensing water vapour from an air conditioning system before, then his/her action would have been rational, if unfortunately timed.
The senior cabin crew member, on the other hand, would have experienced it many times before. It does not take much of a stretch of the imagination to predict that someone off the street might mistake it for smoke on one of his/her flights.
Quote:
Just what exactly do you expect crew to do during a take off roll if a passenger stands up? The sheer ignorance on display here perfectly highlights the kind of attitude these idiots must have had.
The rational thing would have been to keep in mind a form of words that could be used in a PA, like "L & G, the cloud in the cabin is only water vapour from the air conditioning. We often see it. No cause for concern. Kindly sit down." It seems that this was not done.
Passengers are normal human beings in an unfamiliar environment. The cabin crew are there to guide and assist them, not to treat them like morons or potential terrorists. They are the meal ticket.
The passengers on this flight appear to be morons. A large number of the posts in this thread appear to be by people on the same intellectual plain. (sic)
I've not checked your profile, but very much hope you are not cabin crew, Topslide6.
There has always been a minority of flight attendants that are incapable of looking at situations from a passenger viewpoint, and I fear this may be increasing since 9/11.
If the first passenger to cry fire had never seen a cloud of condensing water vapour from an air conditioning system before, then his/her action would have been rational, if unfortunately timed.
The senior cabin crew member, on the other hand, would have experienced it many times before. It does not take much of a stretch of the imagination to predict that someone off the street might mistake it for smoke on one of his/her flights.
Quote:
Just what exactly do you expect crew to do during a take off roll if a passenger stands up? The sheer ignorance on display here perfectly highlights the kind of attitude these idiots must have had.
The rational thing would have been to keep in mind a form of words that could be used in a PA, like "L & G, the cloud in the cabin is only water vapour from the air conditioning. We often see it. No cause for concern. Kindly sit down." It seems that this was not done.
Passengers are normal human beings in an unfamiliar environment. The cabin crew are there to guide and assist them, not to treat them like morons or potential terrorists. They are the meal ticket.
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I think this have to be the funnest incident by pax ever!
can you imagin the rest of the pax seeing those Plonkers shouting smoke....
. I would love to see them reacting to transit in DXB
Safe and happy flying to all from Sybil, Poly and Manuel
BF
can you imagin the rest of the pax seeing those Plonkers shouting smoke....
. I would love to see them reacting to transit in DXBSafe and happy flying to all from Sybil, Poly and Manuel
BF
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like "L & G, the cloud in the cabin is only water vapour from the air conditioning. We often see it. No cause for concern. Kindly sit down."
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You guys who fly the aeroplane please take a step back for a moment and consider that some people do not enjoy flying particularly and any unusual distraction that could threaten their well-being will frighten them.
I love flyng and I have a current PPL(A). I have flown on lots of commercial flghts as SLF as well but have never seen the A/C mist as described earlier or shown in the pic. I wouldn't jump up screaming about it but I would consider asking cabin crew what it was in case it was harmful.
I think a little more friendly information from the flight deck as well as those awful automated safety briefings (which no one appears to watch/listen to) could also help to alliviate these sort of problems and calm potentially nervous passengers.
I love flyng and I have a current PPL(A). I have flown on lots of commercial flghts as SLF as well but have never seen the A/C mist as described earlier or shown in the pic. I wouldn't jump up screaming about it but I would consider asking cabin crew what it was in case it was harmful.
I think a little more friendly information from the flight deck as well as those awful automated safety briefings (which no one appears to watch/listen to) could also help to alliviate these sort of problems and calm potentially nervous passengers.
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Brilliant - let's have the professional just dismiss us pax as morons, stupid, ignorant ... whatever any way to hide the fact that they were all just very probably extremely frightened people who felt trapped in a situation which was going to cost them their lives. In a situation like that you're not thinking rationally, not acting rationally and the flight impulse (as in away from the perceived danger) takes over. We haven't had years of training, we haven't had tests to see how we cope with the pressure of the situation. We're coming across something that we've never experienced before, have not by the sound of things, been prepared for by the 'trained professionals' and the colour of our underwear is probably changing. We need someone to take control and allay our raging fears. If that wsn't done then a few 'highly trained' people ought to sit down and work how this situation can be avoided in the future.
(This situation would have had me frozen in my seat but then as a terrified flyer I spend 90% of a flight with my eyes closed and grasping my seat with no intention of letting go ...)
(This situation would have had me frozen in my seat but then as a terrified flyer I spend 90% of a flight with my eyes closed and grasping my seat with no intention of letting go ...)
As a very regualr pax but witha keen interest in civial aviation I did find this interesting because of two things that happened to me.
One occason was just theorectical after I posted some comments about what happened to me on a thread about Sept 11 . I was on a flight that turned back and was held for about 6 hours overhead Lands End. I commented on the fuel dumping and unusual long noisy bumpy return to LGW with lots of flap and gear dangling all the way from Lands End.to Gatwick saying the engines seemed close to climb power. I got flamed seriously, told numerous times I was an diot , got ti all wrong, mistook what i saw and heard etc until a reply came in from the FO /PF on my trip. No he said what i described was exactly what happened-very unusual yes but an unusual event. Perhaps some of those who had a go at me were pilots but there was a srrong sense of what could you know as just a passenger.
Second time was for real- Off on holiday in the 90s Gatwick to Faro with Ambassador?? long defunct on a 737-200 . I am sitting by the wing leading edge-and they do not extend the leading edges. On and on we taxy towards the holding point and still no leading edge extension. Now we are at the hold and frankly I am pretty scared since I doubt we will fly far without the leading edge flaps but what do I do? Say something to a 20 y/o FA and be told to mind my own business or just sit there , I know the crew probably cannot see the actual wings and well it is a rather dirty shabby example of a 73 so maybe they have a false indication up there. A few minutes go by at the holding point whle I agonise and finally just as we start to move slowly towards the runway down go the leading edges. I was worried, I think rightlly so but in the end I never said anyhting, I suppose because I did trust the crew and presumeably they had there reason for the late slat extension.
(Mind you the appraoch and landing in Faro made me wonder whether I had been right to trust them -LoL)
Anyway I do thnk it s a bit unfair to dismiss pax as idiots-sure some-maybe many are and the scene on the BMI flight appears inexcusable. However,and I know this varies from crew to crew. it seems to me that sometimes a few words from up front go a long long way to making sure the folks in back are relaxed and on a humid day mentionng such phenomena is surely a good idea. I used to fly on BA Cityflyer 146s with there noisy musical flap extensions sounds whch did make people sit up and stare when nothing was said. Several crews hwever realised that the 146 is different and notceably so in this respect from most peoples previous experiences and always mentioned it in a seensible downbeat often gently humourous way and when the noise duly appeared no one batted an eyelid compared to the swivelling heads and widening eyes common when no warning was given.
So a difficult judgement I suppose but as in many things in life a little bit of ommunication and respect for customers can go a long long way. At the end of the day we are your customers and we do pay your wages as much as we should behave ourselves when on your plane.
PB( Ducks quickly)
One occason was just theorectical after I posted some comments about what happened to me on a thread about Sept 11 . I was on a flight that turned back and was held for about 6 hours overhead Lands End. I commented on the fuel dumping and unusual long noisy bumpy return to LGW with lots of flap and gear dangling all the way from Lands End.to Gatwick saying the engines seemed close to climb power. I got flamed seriously, told numerous times I was an diot , got ti all wrong, mistook what i saw and heard etc until a reply came in from the FO /PF on my trip. No he said what i described was exactly what happened-very unusual yes but an unusual event. Perhaps some of those who had a go at me were pilots but there was a srrong sense of what could you know as just a passenger.
Second time was for real- Off on holiday in the 90s Gatwick to Faro with Ambassador?? long defunct on a 737-200 . I am sitting by the wing leading edge-and they do not extend the leading edges. On and on we taxy towards the holding point and still no leading edge extension. Now we are at the hold and frankly I am pretty scared since I doubt we will fly far without the leading edge flaps but what do I do? Say something to a 20 y/o FA and be told to mind my own business or just sit there , I know the crew probably cannot see the actual wings and well it is a rather dirty shabby example of a 73 so maybe they have a false indication up there. A few minutes go by at the holding point whle I agonise and finally just as we start to move slowly towards the runway down go the leading edges. I was worried, I think rightlly so but in the end I never said anyhting, I suppose because I did trust the crew and presumeably they had there reason for the late slat extension.
(Mind you the appraoch and landing in Faro made me wonder whether I had been right to trust them -LoL)
Anyway I do thnk it s a bit unfair to dismiss pax as idiots-sure some-maybe many are and the scene on the BMI flight appears inexcusable. However,and I know this varies from crew to crew. it seems to me that sometimes a few words from up front go a long long way to making sure the folks in back are relaxed and on a humid day mentionng such phenomena is surely a good idea. I used to fly on BA Cityflyer 146s with there noisy musical flap extensions sounds whch did make people sit up and stare when nothing was said. Several crews hwever realised that the 146 is different and notceably so in this respect from most peoples previous experiences and always mentioned it in a seensible downbeat often gently humourous way and when the noise duly appeared no one batted an eyelid compared to the swivelling heads and widening eyes common when no warning was given.
So a difficult judgement I suppose but as in many things in life a little bit of ommunication and respect for customers can go a long long way. At the end of the day we are your customers and we do pay your wages as much as we should behave ourselves when on your plane.
PB( Ducks quickly)
Hi lexxity,
Yes, it did occur to me (post #52) that a suitable PA may have been made, but I was responding to Topslide6's simplistic diatribe; and taking the original story on face value. I agree that we are labouring with limited information: situation normal on PPRuNe.
As an old fart, I think people may be less tolerant in public than in years gone by, and this probably applies to passengers and crews alike. But I think it's vital for the cabin crew to empathise with passengers – even the dodgy-looking ones – from the moment they board. As you settle the passengers down and – later – do the cabin checks for take-off, you have to inspire confidence, without being intimidating. A few minutes later, you will all be belting along a runway. And things can happen...
The one saving grace on take-off and landing is that the cabin crew have nothing to do other than watch and listen. A timely PA should have nipped this in the bud, unless the passengers were drunk and/or disorderly, which would have been spotted before or during boarding.
Chris
Yes, it did occur to me (post #52) that a suitable PA may have been made, but I was responding to Topslide6's simplistic diatribe; and taking the original story on face value. I agree that we are labouring with limited information: situation normal on PPRuNe.
As an old fart, I think people may be less tolerant in public than in years gone by, and this probably applies to passengers and crews alike. But I think it's vital for the cabin crew to empathise with passengers – even the dodgy-looking ones – from the moment they board. As you settle the passengers down and – later – do the cabin checks for take-off, you have to inspire confidence, without being intimidating. A few minutes later, you will all be belting along a runway. And things can happen...
The one saving grace on take-off and landing is that the cabin crew have nothing to do other than watch and listen. A timely PA should have nipped this in the bud, unless the passengers were drunk and/or disorderly, which would have been spotted before or during boarding.
Chris
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So, what kind of "few words" would work then with a bunch of panicked retards? Passengers have responsibilities as well as the rights they are so fond of quoting. This is not touchy-feely customer service stuff; it's beyond stupid to jump up out of your seat on a take off roll, panic other pax and go banging on the cockpit door - we're not exactly talking about using your cellphone despite being told to switch it off here. You have to ask yourself, if If you’re a seated pax on that flight and some guy jumps up screaming fire, we’re all going to die, and makes a run for the cockpit door, are you going to join him? Do you see queues of people lining up to go with the odd person who wigs out and tries to open an exit door? Are we going to end up reading a pre-tax takeoff list to pax for an hour over the intercom to cover the million potential eventualities that may concern them in their ignorance? Yes, we're sure the doors are locked, yes, we're sure the aircraft has been checked by a qualified engineer, we have enough fuel, yada yada. Do you think people like that would listen to a cc briefing on the intercom in the first place, or pay attention to the safety drill even? And if there is something genuine spotted by concerned pax, it's not best communicated by banging on the cockpit door, that's the kind of thing that could get you shot in the States as someone else pointed out, even if you're not on a takeoff roll.
What happened to these people after the event, have they been charged or will they be blacklisted?
What happened to these people after the event, have they been charged or will they be blacklisted?