To Ryanair Pilots: What is wrong with the landings?
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It can land as smoothly as anything else. The unforgiving suspension just makes it feel like an incredible jolt- you didn't understand what I was sayng. The landing gear oleos should be absorbing the shock. They don't- hardly any give, so the jolt goes through the aeroplane. Even a gentle touchdown feels 'hard'. That is the secret. I think Boeing designed the undercarriage for a far heavier 737, and for the lighter 700 and 800 models, it ends up being too hard and unyielding.
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For what it's worth, I stopped giving a toss about what people thought of my landings a long time ago. I don't fly for Ryanair but do fly the 737 and I'll be judged by my peers and my training department on my line checks who know what they're talking about. Smooth touchdown's, unless in the 1% of landings when you fluke it under the following criteria are not safe. The aircraft is to be landed in the right place and at the right speed, end of story. How 'hard' the touchdown is is irrelevent. The 737-800 is a very slippery aircraft with a very real risk of tail strikes. It's no coincidence that pilots of this type all land it the same way.
Be grateful these pilots are doing EXACTLY what they should be doing and stop thinking you know better, because you don't
Be grateful these pilots are doing EXACTLY what they should be doing and stop thinking you know better, because you don't
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Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Good answer! Says it like it is. Stop namby pamby-ing RYRNick and be a man! Get hairs on your chest and relish the moment of touchdown- you have survived another one! Smoothies are for wimps! It's like bleeding that you thought your ferry ride wasn't safe because it used to bump into the jetty! You've arrived....ALIVE!
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Leaving aside the prickly responses from those employed to pilot aircraft on the advantages of a hard landing, does anyone know the answer to the main element of the original question?
I was killing time on the tarmac a few weeks ago, and observed a Ryanair 73 on finals. I was obviously only aware of the approach speed in the last seconds of flight, but it was noticably fast.
If this is not a rare event for Ryanair operation, is it policy?
I was killing time on the tarmac a few weeks ago, and observed a Ryanair 73 on finals. I was obviously only aware of the approach speed in the last seconds of flight, but it was noticably fast.
If this is not a rare event for Ryanair operation, is it policy?
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Oh FFS! OK, you win, it's all a big conspiracy and you've rumbled us. We thump aeroplanes in for a laugh, and RYR pilots fly much faster than everyone else to save money / time / fuel. The rest of us get out of their way to give them a clear run in. Happy now?
You're really not listening are you? I've tried to explain in detail how airliners are landed, and why the subjective 'quality' of landing passengers feel in the back is pretty much irrelevant to the objective - which is safety. Topslide6 has spelt it out much more succinctly. Rainboe - with unusual restraint - has very patiently explained that the 737-800 has much less forgiving landing gear than earlier designs.
And still you won't have it.
And I say again, you haven't got a clue. I can't judge approach speeds unless I've got an airspeed indicator in front of me, and I fly for a living.
You're really not listening are you? I've tried to explain in detail how airliners are landed, and why the subjective 'quality' of landing passengers feel in the back is pretty much irrelevant to the objective - which is safety. Topslide6 has spelt it out much more succinctly. Rainboe - with unusual restraint - has very patiently explained that the 737-800 has much less forgiving landing gear than earlier designs.
And still you won't have it.
I was obviously only aware of the approach speed in the last seconds of flight, but it was noticably fast.
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Thank you for all your replies, very interesting. I will be seating near the front on the flight I have on Wednesday.
Once again, thank you for your help.
Nick
Once again, thank you for your help.
Nick
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G SXTY, the tone of your post seems a little unjustified.
RYRnick asked about some fast landings he had experienced when flying RyanAir, and his experience on contact. As you note, a number of contributers have explained that the measure of a pilot's capability is not solely dependent on the passenger experience in the cabin, and that some types have more forgiving undercarriages than others.
I highlighted the element of his question relating only to approach speed, having recently seen an isolated example.
To a) resort to sarcasm with regard to the actual question I asked, b) rudely suggest I am not listening and then deafly reiterate previous postings with regard to firm landings as if they somehow answer the question relating to approach speed, and c) make dismissive assumptions relating to my knowledge and experience (on what basis?) seems a little unfair to my first post in this thread.
With regard to b), and your comments "You're really not listening are you?" and "And still you won't have it" please note that my question related only to approach speed, and that neither of the contributers you mention dealt with this aspect of the question. I am quite familiar with the matter as ably outlined by those contributers; the invective you deploy is misplaced.
With regard to c) I would suggest that a blind assumption that every contribution is posted by an individual less experienced than oneself is unwise in a forum on any subject.
I would be surprised to learn that it was explicit company policy to shave time off on approach, but when I spotted this thread I was simply interested to fnd out what contributers knew. I cannot see it deserved such a frustrated reply.
RYRnick asked about some fast landings he had experienced when flying RyanAir, and his experience on contact. As you note, a number of contributers have explained that the measure of a pilot's capability is not solely dependent on the passenger experience in the cabin, and that some types have more forgiving undercarriages than others.
I highlighted the element of his question relating only to approach speed, having recently seen an isolated example.
To a) resort to sarcasm with regard to the actual question I asked, b) rudely suggest I am not listening and then deafly reiterate previous postings with regard to firm landings as if they somehow answer the question relating to approach speed, and c) make dismissive assumptions relating to my knowledge and experience (on what basis?) seems a little unfair to my first post in this thread.
With regard to b), and your comments "You're really not listening are you?" and "And still you won't have it" please note that my question related only to approach speed, and that neither of the contributers you mention dealt with this aspect of the question. I am quite familiar with the matter as ably outlined by those contributers; the invective you deploy is misplaced.
With regard to c) I would suggest that a blind assumption that every contribution is posted by an individual less experienced than oneself is unwise in a forum on any subject.
I would be surprised to learn that it was explicit company policy to shave time off on approach, but when I spotted this thread I was simply interested to fnd out what contributers knew. I cannot see it deserved such a frustrated reply.
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I don't like the sound of that. NG models having harder suspension, no reason for that. And now the winglets causing the landing to be even harder? Why on earth to airlines buy the 737NG then?
The A320 seems to be fine!
The A320 seems to be fine!
ing laugh??
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RYRnick, a number of professionals have come along and given you (in my opinion) good sound advice about landings with various aircraft types.
You still seem to be either unhappy with their information or, deliberately trying to wind them up!!
I am sure that Boeing would not have been allowed to add winglets to the 737NG if it would cause landing problems.
Also, as has been pointed out to you previously the B737NG and the Airbus A320 are 2 completely different aircraft when it comes to landing characteristics.
Regards,
G-BPED
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I am sure that Boeing would not have been allowed to add winglets to the 737NG if it would cause landing problems.
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The main gripe of the starter of this thread was hard landings on a 737NG.
It has been pointed out that the landing gear oleos do not "give" much on touchdown hence you feel the landing more (Rainboe's post #21).
If there is any further infomation about the "winglets" I am sure a pilot will come along and let us know.
Regards,
G-BPED
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Clearly, RYRNick and Neplusultra are wind up merchants. Several professional pilots have given quite detailed explanations about how passenger jets land dependent on type, weather and runway. To then continue to argue with them is laughable, how the hell can you tell if a jet is approaching the runway at 180mph and not a 150mph ? Answer = you can't. Also, by indulging in such muppetry you make it less likely that a pilot will answer a reasonable question posed by a passenger - such as the one posed by the gentleman concerning winglets.
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Our 737s sprouted 2 metre winglets half way through my 2 years on them. They make absolutely no detectable difference whatsoever. Anybody who says anything about their handling qualities is bullorduring. Their chief advantage is....they look good! Make a Boeing look really sexy, and the Gulfstream IV incredible. Someone said they save a bit of fuel too. As for judging high speed, even the world's most experienced pilot can't tell unless he has an airspeed indicator in front of him!
I have never worked for Ryanair, but I fly them a lot. I have no qualms whatsoever. I like the free seating- if some brat starts piping up near you, you can move with no nonsense about 'this isn't your seat!'. They keep to schedule, they don't lose your baggage, the stewardesses are all called 'Ludmila' and look knackered, the aeroplanes are all new. True the seats don't recline, and you pay for everything, but all I want is to get there...quick. I am an airline 37 year veteran now. They don't land the 737 harder than the rest (or me), they don't fly superfast approaches. But they do have more garbage sprouted about them than anybody else!
I have never worked for Ryanair, but I fly them a lot. I have no qualms whatsoever. I like the free seating- if some brat starts piping up near you, you can move with no nonsense about 'this isn't your seat!'. They keep to schedule, they don't lose your baggage, the stewardesses are all called 'Ludmila' and look knackered, the aeroplanes are all new. True the seats don't recline, and you pay for everything, but all I want is to get there...quick. I am an airline 37 year veteran now. They don't land the 737 harder than the rest (or me), they don't fly superfast approaches. But they do have more garbage sprouted about them than anybody else!
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I also found a few posts quite arrogant and rude, at the end of the day - if your a crap pilot you shouldn't be flying the plane.
I understand clearly what the pilots have said, but some have blamed the wheels etc. I see now that the 800 series has a completely different landing to a 400.
Like with the A320.
I only wanted to know why suddenly Ryanair have been landing harder than other 800 operators. Seems to be a colourful answer.
I also like flying Ryanair, and I cancelled my gold card with BA recently. Now for a person to do that then they must really like Ryanair!!! Otherwise I would still be flying BA!!!
I never wanted to appear rude, not listening, or "winding up".
But if Boeing did make the 800 series landing gear different, why didn't they make it softer? As newer stuff generally is better right?
Back to my other question, generally where are the best seats? Front or Back?
I understand that several different factors can change a smooth arrival into a firm one! I think I have moved on from that question.
Nick.
I understand clearly what the pilots have said, but some have blamed the wheels etc. I see now that the 800 series has a completely different landing to a 400.
Like with the A320.
I only wanted to know why suddenly Ryanair have been landing harder than other 800 operators. Seems to be a colourful answer.
I also like flying Ryanair, and I cancelled my gold card with BA recently. Now for a person to do that then they must really like Ryanair!!! Otherwise I would still be flying BA!!!
I never wanted to appear rude, not listening, or "winding up".
But if Boeing did make the 800 series landing gear different, why didn't they make it softer? As newer stuff generally is better right?
Back to my other question, generally where are the best seats? Front or Back?
I understand that several different factors can change a smooth arrival into a firm one! I think I have moved on from that question.
Nick.
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I never wanted to appear rude, not listening, or "winding up".
I also found a few posts quite arrogant and rude, at the end of the day - if your[sic] a crap pilot you shouldn't be flying the plane.
Back to my other question, generally where are the best seats? Front or Back?
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I also found a few posts quite arrogant and rude, at the end of the day - if your a crap pilot you shouldn't be flying the plane.
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Our 737s sprouted 2 metre winglets half way through my 2 years on them. They make absolutely no detectable difference whatsoever. Anybody who says anything about their handling qualities is bullorduring. Their chief advantage is....they look good! Make a Boeing look really sexy, and the Gulfstream IV incredible. Someone said they save a bit of fuel too. As for judging high speed, even the world's most experienced pilot can't tell unless he has an airspeed indicator in front of him!
....although I'm going to have to respectfully disagree over the aesthetic qualities of the winglets; I think they look silly on Boeings. 
I like the Airbus style winglets which extend above and below the edge of the wing, they make the A320 look a very pretty aeroplane. The 737 and 757 though with the large ones just look like the wing has been bent upwards and the ones retrofitted to the 727 just look odd.
As for the landings themselves I've only flown Ryanair a few times and didn't notice the landing particularly. My last BA flight felt like a 'greaser' at Gatwick. I remember one AA flight into LAX on a 777....braked very hard and one could hear glass smashing in the galley!
Anyway who I am to comment...I often struggle to land my plane nicely....and it only weighs about one tonne, let alone 70!
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Originally Posted by RYRnick
I also like flying Ryanair, and I cancelled my gold card with BA recently. Now for a person to do that then they must really like Ryanair!!! Otherwise I would still be flying BA!!!
Do you really intend to use Ryanair for every one of the frequent journeys that you must make in order to have attained Gold Card status in the first place? You didn't think you might hang onto the card just in case you had cause to use BA again in the next year or so? How many BA Miles did you lose by cancelling the card?