To Ryanair Pilots: What is wrong with the landings?
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Just to be clear.....aircraft don't have 'suspension'. Rainboe is referring in laymen's terms (to be applauded of course! 
) to the oleo's.
I can't say for certain as I don't work for them but a mate who does has said that Ryanair are very hot on aircraft being landed in the right place and speed. They fly to some very un-yielding runways where floating is simply not an option and thus the mentality is right place, right speed every time. I would imagine this has been re-inforced recently as they've had a couple of 'excursions from the paved surface'. Rightly so. I'm sure if that's incorrect a Ryanair pilot will correct me.
All these people tw@tting on about touchdowns ought to be allowed to sit on a 737 flightdeck when heavy and landing into somewhere like Jersey. No doubt, having just changed your undercrackers, you'd pretty much shut up.
Well done to those passengers (my assumption) who posted here and employed a bit of common sense.
) to the oleo's.I can't say for certain as I don't work for them but a mate who does has said that Ryanair are very hot on aircraft being landed in the right place and speed. They fly to some very un-yielding runways where floating is simply not an option and thus the mentality is right place, right speed every time. I would imagine this has been re-inforced recently as they've had a couple of 'excursions from the paved surface'. Rightly so. I'm sure if that's incorrect a Ryanair pilot will correct me.
All these people tw@tting on about touchdowns ought to be allowed to sit on a 737 flightdeck when heavy and landing into somewhere like Jersey. No doubt, having just changed your undercrackers, you'd pretty much shut up.
Well done to those passengers (my assumption) who posted here and employed a bit of common sense.
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I have lost several BA miles and I don't care. I had a awful experience with BA recently on a flight to Madrid. I am going to sue them for the damages to my hand luggage (which had my laptop computer, BlackBerry, and my work!)
I started to like Ryanair for the really low fares for pleasure, and now when I travel for work. I go Ryanair, they fly to most of the bases I go to. And I don't mind the bases which are not bang in the city - as on the bus to the city I can either finish work, or relax.
I now understand and know that the landings that I thought were good, are really dangerous! To get a safe touchdown the rear wheels must be landed firmly to get the autobrake on? And that Boeing does recommend that the plane is landed firmly?
And that the 737-800 is different to the 737-400 and the Airbus A320, which means different landings.
Anything else I forgot?
I started to like Ryanair for the really low fares for pleasure, and now when I travel for work. I go Ryanair, they fly to most of the bases I go to. And I don't mind the bases which are not bang in the city - as on the bus to the city I can either finish work, or relax.
I now understand and know that the landings that I thought were good, are really dangerous! To get a safe touchdown the rear wheels must be landed firmly to get the autobrake on? And that Boeing does recommend that the plane is landed firmly?
And that the 737-800 is different to the 737-400 and the Airbus A320, which means different landings.
Anything else I forgot?
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Well, I learned something...
Thanks to those pilots with the patience to explain what was going on. I'll refrain in future from cursing (silently) those pilots that seem to want to loosen my fillings.
Interesting about the 747-400. More than once I've been woken by CC, "Sir, we're at the gate, will you be leaving us?" though that might have more to do with pure exhaustion than a smooth landing.
Interesting about the 747-400. More than once I've been woken by CC, "Sir, we're at the gate, will you be leaving us?" though that might have more to do with pure exhaustion than a smooth landing.
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I'm shooting in the dark a bit here as i've flown an aircraft with two or more sets of main wheels (as in 757 upwards) but I believe they are a bit easier to land smoothly as the rear set of wheels touch first, spin up and the main force of the landing then comes down on the second set. As I said, that could easily be wide of the mark on that one.
RYRnick, it's not that landings are not good etc. As for the 737, the idea is plant the main wheels on the runway which spins the wheels up, deploys the spoilers and gets the retardation going. Any float stops this from happening until further down the runway. You may find on a smoother touchdown if a float is evident that the subsequent braking and thrust reverse usage is more harsh. This is obviously bad as it cooks the brakes, uses more fuel (very bad)and makes a hell of a racket. Most of the time it's not an issue as many runways are more than long enough when they're dry. When they are wet or contaminated it's a whole different ball game, particularly the latter.
As I said, landing a heavy 737 into somewhere like Jersey is not easy. There isn't really enough runway to be getting it wrong, and by that I mean floating and trying to touchdown smoothly. The fact at the end of the day, however, is that if Ryanair wish their pilots to land the aircraft firmly then that's what the majority of them will do.
Anyway, now I know what feeding the troll means I shall now stop.
RYRnick, it's not that landings are not good etc. As for the 737, the idea is plant the main wheels on the runway which spins the wheels up, deploys the spoilers and gets the retardation going. Any float stops this from happening until further down the runway. You may find on a smoother touchdown if a float is evident that the subsequent braking and thrust reverse usage is more harsh. This is obviously bad as it cooks the brakes, uses more fuel (very bad)and makes a hell of a racket. Most of the time it's not an issue as many runways are more than long enough when they're dry. When they are wet or contaminated it's a whole different ball game, particularly the latter.
As I said, landing a heavy 737 into somewhere like Jersey is not easy. There isn't really enough runway to be getting it wrong, and by that I mean floating and trying to touchdown smoothly. The fact at the end of the day, however, is that if Ryanair wish their pilots to land the aircraft firmly then that's what the majority of them will do.
Anyway, now I know what feeding the troll means I shall now stop.
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NG Winglets
The winglet reduces the crosswind component acceptable for landing: hardly surprising given that it is close on 8ft high !
The take off field length is also reduced for a comparable non W airframe.
It also allows the W NG to climb to a higher cruising level than the non W NG at the same weight: this reduces the margin to the buffet - noticeable in turns.
The cruise fuel flow is reduced by up to 4% by the winglet.
According to Boeing the benefits are:
Performance
Four to five percent cruise drag reduction
No change to initial buffet boundary
No change to stall speeds
No pilot-perceived buffet before stick shaker
Flaps-down lift increase
Significant drag reduction for takeoff flaps
Handling qualities
Improved Mach tuck
Improved directional stability
Improved longitudinal and lateral trim stability
Increased pitch stability
No degradation of stall characteristics and stall identification
Unchanged rudder crossover speed
Unchanged Dutch roll damping
Unchanged manual reversion roll characteristics
The take off field length is also reduced for a comparable non W airframe.
It also allows the W NG to climb to a higher cruising level than the non W NG at the same weight: this reduces the margin to the buffet - noticeable in turns.
The cruise fuel flow is reduced by up to 4% by the winglet.
According to Boeing the benefits are:
Performance
Four to five percent cruise drag reduction
No change to initial buffet boundary
No change to stall speeds
No pilot-perceived buffet before stick shaker
Flaps-down lift increase
Significant drag reduction for takeoff flaps
Handling qualities
Improved Mach tuck
Improved directional stability
Improved longitudinal and lateral trim stability
Increased pitch stability
No degradation of stall characteristics and stall identification
Unchanged rudder crossover speed
Unchanged Dutch roll damping
Unchanged manual reversion roll characteristics
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To those pax who complain about firm landings, let me suggest the following.
Go and take a few lessons in a light aircraft weighing less than a ton.
Learn how to make an approach to landing at 65 knots (70mph) and land on a runway where it is important not to float due to length issues.
You will then understand that landing in the right place is more important that landing smoothly and so long as you arrive within the parameters, you will have done a good job.
Imagine trying to do the same in an airliner weighing over 50 tons, at double the speed or more.
Then have a little respect for the professionals who put the bird in, the right place, in all weather conditions, every landing and keep us pax safe by ensuring the aircraft gives book performance.
As a PPL who has made many hundreds of landings in light aircraft, I have immense respect for their performance.
Go and take a few lessons in a light aircraft weighing less than a ton.
Learn how to make an approach to landing at 65 knots (70mph) and land on a runway where it is important not to float due to length issues.
You will then understand that landing in the right place is more important that landing smoothly and so long as you arrive within the parameters, you will have done a good job.
Imagine trying to do the same in an airliner weighing over 50 tons, at double the speed or more.
Then have a little respect for the professionals who put the bird in, the right place, in all weather conditions, every landing and keep us pax safe by ensuring the aircraft gives book performance.
As a PPL who has made many hundreds of landings in light aircraft, I have immense respect for their performance.
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A big thank you to those who have taken the time (and patience) to answer the various questions raised by the non-flyers on this thread.
I'm happy that the subject has now been answered comprehensively for those who may choose to stop asking silly questions and actually think about the answers given, so we'll put this one to bed.
I'm happy that the subject has now been answered comprehensively for those who may choose to stop asking silly questions and actually think about the answers given, so we'll put this one to bed.
