Major passenger disturbance on UA flight in Rio
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That's what happens when everyone and his cousin can afford nifty new video cameras. The immediacy of YouTube et al really brings the importance of crisis management as something to be implemented quickly, to the fore. As opposed to "ok we'll put something together for the press by tomorrow morning".
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Explanation according to the user who posted the video
According to the user comment in Youtube, a flight scheduled to friday 18 was cancelled due to radio problems and transfered to saturday 19. On saturday, with the same a/c, there was an issue with the right engine. The user said that it "failed to start". After 1 hour maintenance, they announced that everything was ok and the flight would proceed. Several passengers complained that the right engine "sounded funny". The crew told the passengers to shut up, and the disturbance begun. Eventually the federal police was called and removed a flight attendant and some passengers to get their statements.
The flight took off, but 3 minutes later there was a smell of something burning. The crew shut off the right engine and returned to Galećo. At least two tires blew up during the landing. That last information is confirmed by some news agencies.
Today, it was announced that two other UA flights had to return to Guarulhos due to "technical problems", less than 24 hours apart from each other. Both flights landed without incidents. No further information available.
[]'s
The flight took off, but 3 minutes later there was a smell of something burning. The crew shut off the right engine and returned to Galećo. At least two tires blew up during the landing. That last information is confirmed by some news agencies.
Today, it was announced that two other UA flights had to return to Guarulhos due to "technical problems", less than 24 hours apart from each other. Both flights landed without incidents. No further information available.
[]'s
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Anyone know what cause the disturbance? Where the flight departed from?
I was half expecting to see my sister as the center of it. (NYC to Rio is a common trip for her) A real horse's potoot, she is.
I was half expecting to see my sister as the center of it. (NYC to Rio is a common trip for her) A real horse's potoot, she is.
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Where does it say that passengers are not allowed to use their video cameras in the cabin? The flight attendent kept on telling the bloke that he couldn't film what was going on.
Ozzy
Ozzy
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Re. use of video camera.
All electronic items must be switched off for take off and landing. If the safety demonstration had been completed then this would cover it.
Also I hope that the person got the permission (in writing) of everyone filmed in the video before releasing it in to the public domain.
All electronic items must be switched off for take off and landing. If the safety demonstration had been completed then this would cover it.
Also I hope that the person got the permission (in writing) of everyone filmed in the video before releasing it in to the public domain.
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Permission in writing
If it was required to have all public events which are filmed require the signed permission of the participants you would shut down every news operation in the world. No rioting, no pictures of 9/11, no football matches which included the crowd, nothing. There is no law against filming in public...
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Not so sure an aircraft can be considered a public domain. How would you feel about surveillance cameras filming every passenger in case they decided to stick their chewing gum under the seat?
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Permission in writing
My son is the expert on this, but what I recall him saying is:
Unless local laws say different, the publication of a person's ""likeness"" is ok without permission if the reason for publishing it is for newsworthiness of a current and public nature. This comes from the ""fair use"" provisions of Copyright and Trademark laws - which are moderately international in scope due to treaties & the like.
Unless local laws say different, the publication of a person's ""likeness"" is ok without permission if the reason for publishing it is for newsworthiness of a current and public nature. This comes from the ""fair use"" provisions of Copyright and Trademark laws - which are moderately international in scope due to treaties & the like.
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During January UA experienced several delays in flights 846/847 (IAD-EZE) some due to mechanical, some due to weather as explained over the phone by agents.
During Jan UA also experienced some disturbances in flights from IAD to GRU-GIG.
They are all 763 as far as I am concerned.
Is this a coincidence?
During Jan UA also experienced some disturbances in flights from IAD to GRU-GIG.
They are all 763 as far as I am concerned.
Is this a coincidence?
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Probably coincidence. But darn, didn't a bunch of people end up looking bad at the end of that one?
Scorecard:
First, for the pax: Rule #1 is, when things don't go right, passengers are simply "adversely affected." This rule is why so many people have fear of flying, and part of the reason why for all passengers, flying on commercial airliners sucks. "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" the adage goes. "Communicate to the passengers" is below that, and with good reason. As freight, they cannot bring about a change in the situation. "Would you rather know that we don't know when we're getting a replacement here, or would you rather we work on getting it?" And, once you hit tech cancellations at a remote airport, don't expect the company to have a dozen booking agents sitting around in case that one flight a day doesn't go. Frequent fliers don't just map mentally the way out of the aircraft, but also the reverse way through security and to the transfer desk, also noting any spots where unattended infants might congregate (seriously, you hit a one-way security door, lose 4 places, and get behind the infants, and you're in line for an hour). No need to wait for the announcement when they start pulling the bags off.
For the flight attendants. It's possible there's no connection between what the passengers heard and the fault that required an overweight return. I'm looking forward to hearing more information on the matter. Did the passengers start a ruckus for no reason, and in the delay that caused, someone used way too much Jerry Curl in the lav? Or did they have a legitimate concern by several unrelated and sober persons that was overridden by F/A's who thought they knew better and who refused to refer the matter to those whose ultimate job it is to tend to the safety of the aircraft, and not just its occupants?
Anyway, it should be cute. So far, everyone looks bad.
/rant
Scorecard:
First, for the pax: Rule #1 is, when things don't go right, passengers are simply "adversely affected." This rule is why so many people have fear of flying, and part of the reason why for all passengers, flying on commercial airliners sucks. "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" the adage goes. "Communicate to the passengers" is below that, and with good reason. As freight, they cannot bring about a change in the situation. "Would you rather know that we don't know when we're getting a replacement here, or would you rather we work on getting it?" And, once you hit tech cancellations at a remote airport, don't expect the company to have a dozen booking agents sitting around in case that one flight a day doesn't go. Frequent fliers don't just map mentally the way out of the aircraft, but also the reverse way through security and to the transfer desk, also noting any spots where unattended infants might congregate (seriously, you hit a one-way security door, lose 4 places, and get behind the infants, and you're in line for an hour). No need to wait for the announcement when they start pulling the bags off.
For the flight attendants. It's possible there's no connection between what the passengers heard and the fault that required an overweight return. I'm looking forward to hearing more information on the matter. Did the passengers start a ruckus for no reason, and in the delay that caused, someone used way too much Jerry Curl in the lav? Or did they have a legitimate concern by several unrelated and sober persons that was overridden by F/A's who thought they knew better and who refused to refer the matter to those whose ultimate job it is to tend to the safety of the aircraft, and not just its occupants?
Anyway, it should be cute. So far, everyone looks bad.
/rant
Paxing All Over The World
With that video, every airline in the world just got a free training programme. They should all be extremely appreciative of the folks who created the disturbance and the one who filmed it and posted it. I am serious.
(and you may only call me Shurley on special occasions)
This video is a perfect example of :
(and you may only call me Shurley on special occasions)
This video is a perfect example of :
- Just how fast a situation can get out of hand.
- How difficult it is to get it back under control.
- That pax will use video cams at all, and any, time without a second thought. This person was running the cam during the roll out but hiding it (no vision) so as to capture audio but the camera would have been generating the same amount of interference.
- Airframe and air systems designers must make all systems as impervious as possible to any and all such devices as they will be in use at all times.
- Airline PRs must presume that cameras (still+video) are ALWAYS running and be ready to tackle the fall-out from these videos being viewed by those who are not interested in what actually happened - merely that airline XYZ 'messed up big time'.
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Video surveillance
To be frank... especially in the UK we are under constant video monitoring. We simply have to get used to the idea that incidents such as this are likely to be filmed on lots of devices, some operated by the companies themselves, others used by customers, and that these are quite likely to put into the public domain via Youtube type websites. All companies will have to adapt to this reality whether they like it or not.
The definition of newsworthyness is very broad and would justify publishing virtually anything!
The definition of newsworthyness is very broad and would justify publishing virtually anything!
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United 9805...
I speak and understand Portuguese... as a matter of fact I am in Brasil in vacations at the present time. I showed this to a few Brasilian friends around me to verify my opinion, and I translated the English for them. I am a pilot.
xxx
We looked the tape a few times, I also read the texts in Portuguese which came with the tape on YouTube... It appears that it was entirely taped after the return of the aircraft to RJ. First I heard the clear and polite "SHUT-UP" of a "friendly F/A" from the "friendly skies"... I do believe, that a firm FOR YOUR SAFETY - PLEASE REMAIN IN YOUR SEATS would have been more appropriate. And Portuguese language should equally be used. I heard a Brasilian F/A making a PA... but merely one, although I can see there is what appears a large number of Brasilians aboard.
xxx
A F/A asked early on the tape, for the passenger to stop the taping. The passenger answered "the doors are open, is it...?" - Even though they are on board of a US registry aircraft, operated under FAR 121 - while doors are open, and have "blocked-in" for the arrival, although a precautionary return, the laws of Brasil are then in effect. Try to ask if Brasilian law requires written consent for people to be taped... I doubt it. It is not in Argentina where I live and work. Or do like Aeroflot, and prohibit taking pictures in or from airplanes... and send the FBI, the TSA, the 82nd Airborne and the IRS after these unhappy "terrorists"...
xxx
Apparently, buses came from the terminal to the aircraft, probably stopped on the runway. They deplaned with airstair(s), probably only one was brought to the plane and made a long wait for deplaning. The firefighters seem to be concerned with the RH main gear unit. Nothing about the engine on that side.
xxx
The passenger complains in the terminal on his mobile phone (to UA) about the cancellation the day before ("communications") and the circumstances of "today's flight"... of course, the engine "almost" on fire... which in turn made a frie warning in the toilet. and of course an engine "failure" when the engine power was reduced... Obviously, the passenger is not knowledgeable about airplanes, but yet, he knows that UA is using excuses to fit the circumstances. If the RH engine was shut-down or not, it is not known to the passengers, nor does he realises that the tire(s) failed by a mere blow-up due to overheated tires with the overweight landing brakes effort.
xxx
Certainly, the captain did a good and safe return as warranted, but I am not entirely happy about the attitude of the F/As... As usual, F/As are there to save your a*se, not to kiss it. I do not expect any better treatment from the the friendly skies... however, with my airline, the chief pilot and the chief F/A would give a debriefing (without tea and cookies) about an unsatisfactory attitude with passengers who show various levels of concern to near panick. Realise that the TAM tragedy in GRU a few months ago, is still fresh in the mind of many people in that cabin.
xxx
Keeping them in their seats - YES, yelling SHUT-UP - NO, after a safe landing has been completed, and doors are opened without emergency evacuation. No wonder that UA, does not enjoy the first choice for travel of the people from that country, nor mine. As a captain, I would greet the deplaning passengers at L-1 door, if my duties and time permit, to present the excuses for the airline, and the vocabulary used.
xxx
From a "third world" nation, and with my apologies to the flight deck.
I wish you "happy contrails" -
xxx
We looked the tape a few times, I also read the texts in Portuguese which came with the tape on YouTube... It appears that it was entirely taped after the return of the aircraft to RJ. First I heard the clear and polite "SHUT-UP" of a "friendly F/A" from the "friendly skies"... I do believe, that a firm FOR YOUR SAFETY - PLEASE REMAIN IN YOUR SEATS would have been more appropriate. And Portuguese language should equally be used. I heard a Brasilian F/A making a PA... but merely one, although I can see there is what appears a large number of Brasilians aboard.
xxx
A F/A asked early on the tape, for the passenger to stop the taping. The passenger answered "the doors are open, is it...?" - Even though they are on board of a US registry aircraft, operated under FAR 121 - while doors are open, and have "blocked-in" for the arrival, although a precautionary return, the laws of Brasil are then in effect. Try to ask if Brasilian law requires written consent for people to be taped... I doubt it. It is not in Argentina where I live and work. Or do like Aeroflot, and prohibit taking pictures in or from airplanes... and send the FBI, the TSA, the 82nd Airborne and the IRS after these unhappy "terrorists"...
xxx
Apparently, buses came from the terminal to the aircraft, probably stopped on the runway. They deplaned with airstair(s), probably only one was brought to the plane and made a long wait for deplaning. The firefighters seem to be concerned with the RH main gear unit. Nothing about the engine on that side.
xxx
The passenger complains in the terminal on his mobile phone (to UA) about the cancellation the day before ("communications") and the circumstances of "today's flight"... of course, the engine "almost" on fire... which in turn made a frie warning in the toilet. and of course an engine "failure" when the engine power was reduced... Obviously, the passenger is not knowledgeable about airplanes, but yet, he knows that UA is using excuses to fit the circumstances. If the RH engine was shut-down or not, it is not known to the passengers, nor does he realises that the tire(s) failed by a mere blow-up due to overheated tires with the overweight landing brakes effort.
xxx
Certainly, the captain did a good and safe return as warranted, but I am not entirely happy about the attitude of the F/As... As usual, F/As are there to save your a*se, not to kiss it. I do not expect any better treatment from the the friendly skies... however, with my airline, the chief pilot and the chief F/A would give a debriefing (without tea and cookies) about an unsatisfactory attitude with passengers who show various levels of concern to near panick. Realise that the TAM tragedy in GRU a few months ago, is still fresh in the mind of many people in that cabin.
xxx
Keeping them in their seats - YES, yelling SHUT-UP - NO, after a safe landing has been completed, and doors are opened without emergency evacuation. No wonder that UA, does not enjoy the first choice for travel of the people from that country, nor mine. As a captain, I would greet the deplaning passengers at L-1 door, if my duties and time permit, to present the excuses for the airline, and the vocabulary used.
xxx
From a "third world" nation, and with my apologies to the flight deck.
I wish you "happy contrails" -
Have seen the clip here: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=395_1201204784
Somewhere in the middle of the clip, I hear some alarms which sound to me like toilet smoke alert. I may be wrong, can anyone confirm that? I've heard them before but on other types in test mode.
Somewhere in the middle of the clip, I hear some alarms which sound to me like toilet smoke alert. I may be wrong, can anyone confirm that? I've heard them before but on other types in test mode.
Everything is under control.
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As Paxboy said, "Airline PRs must presume that cameras (still+video) are ALWAYS running . . .."
I have a long-standing corollary -- Never say, write, or do anything that you would not want on the front page of the Washington Post.
I have a long-standing corollary -- Never say, write, or do anything that you would not want on the front page of the Washington Post.
