Safety Brief - Is it compulsory to listen?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lord Lucan
You claim to be an ATPL holder...tell me one thing - are you going to stop running through your checklists before your next take off because you've done them 1000 times before?? I suspect not...the cabin safety briefing is surely there for the same reason as the flight deck checklists...Also, as many others have said before me, its just basic common courtesy to allow the CC to go about their job without interruption and to let those who are sensible enough to watch/listen to the briefing do so.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: keighley
Age: 46
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eveyyone should listen ?
e.g Some of the 737=8s the lifejacket is in the panel above your head and not under the seat.Just imagine you looking under yr seat to fine its not there.You need to have resepct
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1997
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a minimum it is common courtesy to listen to a briefing which is for the benefit of everyone on board.
The aircraft commander also has a legal obligation (for a UK registered aircraft) to ensure that passengers are adequately briefed (even if this is done on his/her behalf by a qualified crew member). The only way to ensure that his/her responsibilities are discharged is to make sure that everyone is paying attention. That is a 'reasonable step' in my book.
As others have said, if anyone who thought it unworthy to pay attention during the safety brief gets in my way during any emergency evacuation, I'll be walking over the top of them with no hesitation
The aircraft commander also has a legal obligation (for a UK registered aircraft) to ensure that passengers are adequately briefed (even if this is done on his/her behalf by a qualified crew member). The only way to ensure that his/her responsibilities are discharged is to make sure that everyone is paying attention. That is a 'reasonable step' in my book.
53. —(1) Subject to paragraph (2), the commander of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to ensure—
(a) before the aircraft takes off on any flight, that all passengers are made familiar with the position and method of use of emergency exits, safety belts (with diagonal shoulder strap where required to be carried), safety harnesses and (where required to be carried) oxygen equipment, lifejackets and the floor path lighting system and all other devices required by or under this Order and intended for use by passengers individually in the case of an emergency occurring to the aircraft; and
(b) that in an emergency during a flight, all passengers are instructed in the emergency action which they should take.
(a) before the aircraft takes off on any flight, that all passengers are made familiar with the position and method of use of emergency exits, safety belts (with diagonal shoulder strap where required to be carried), safety harnesses and (where required to be carried) oxygen equipment, lifejackets and the floor path lighting system and all other devices required by or under this Order and intended for use by passengers individually in the case of an emergency occurring to the aircraft; and
(b) that in an emergency during a flight, all passengers are instructed in the emergency action which they should take.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: YYZ via the UK
Age: 49
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find it funny that as so many people seem to have heard the safety briefings a thousand times before and don't need to hear them again...that on all the flights I go on there still seem to be numerous people standing up with the seatbelt signs on, undoing their seatbelts whilst taxiing.....going to sleep without seat belts on etc etc. I annoyed a passenger next to me by refusing to let him stand up when we were flying through severe turbulence. When I pointed to the seatbelt sign...his response was "So?"
These people are often the ones who don't need to hear the safety brief again for the "1000th" time...and yet don't seem to feel as though it applies to them when parts of it are used on a "normal" flight. And then whose actions can compromise others.
What steams me most of all...and I mentioned this on another thread. The Air France incident in Toronto...which the report came out last week..made note that over 50% of passengers stopped to collect their personal belongings from the overheads before exiting the aircraft. Are these the same people who have heard the safety brief for the "1000th" time?? I seem to recall the briefings saying not to take personal belongings with you?
Lord Lucan ...if you are have been flying for 35 years...do you skip all preflight checks cos you have a reasonable idea of what to do? You must have done them over a thousand times? What changes from being pilot to being a passenger??
Double standards by passengers and crew alike it seems. For 2 minutes of a flight that can be anything up to 13 hours...we seem to be above something that is designed to provide information to help us in the event of something going wrong. And yet time and time again it is shown that passengers don't know about the seatbelt signs or hand luggage..or opening a compartment so nothing falls out etc etc etc. Sigh!!
Still if anything...I hope that at least in providing the briefing the airline is covered so if someone sues over something that went wrong which is talked about in the briefing the airline can say "Sorry tough luck!"
These people are often the ones who don't need to hear the safety brief again for the "1000th" time...and yet don't seem to feel as though it applies to them when parts of it are used on a "normal" flight. And then whose actions can compromise others.
What steams me most of all...and I mentioned this on another thread. The Air France incident in Toronto...which the report came out last week..made note that over 50% of passengers stopped to collect their personal belongings from the overheads before exiting the aircraft. Are these the same people who have heard the safety brief for the "1000th" time?? I seem to recall the briefings saying not to take personal belongings with you?
Lord Lucan ...if you are have been flying for 35 years...do you skip all preflight checks cos you have a reasonable idea of what to do? You must have done them over a thousand times? What changes from being pilot to being a passenger??
Double standards by passengers and crew alike it seems. For 2 minutes of a flight that can be anything up to 13 hours...we seem to be above something that is designed to provide information to help us in the event of something going wrong. And yet time and time again it is shown that passengers don't know about the seatbelt signs or hand luggage..or opening a compartment so nothing falls out etc etc etc. Sigh!!
Still if anything...I hope that at least in providing the briefing the airline is covered so if someone sues over something that went wrong which is talked about in the briefing the airline can say "Sorry tough luck!"
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: heathrow
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a legal requirement on the Captain to ensure that all of the passengers are suitably briefed, however there is no compulsion on the passenger to listen.
The ANO states that you must obey any reasonable request or order given to you by the commander of an aircraft. What this means is that if the captain orders you to engage in a sexual act in the toilets you may refuse but if he asks you to listen and watch the safety briefing you are obliged by law to do so. ( I have been campaigning for years to get the former request written into law but have been told it is a load of cock)
My opening PA includes this briefing
"The cabin crew will shortly give you a safety briefing please listen and watch and give your full attention to the crew." (That is an order not a request)
Anybody who has not watched the briefing could be gulity of endangering the aircraft as they may slow down an evacuation. It is an offence at anytime to endanger an aircraft.
If a cabin crew member reported to me that xyz passenger had not looked or listened to the briefing technically I cannot fly.
Last edited by llanfairpg; 22nd Dec 2007 at 18:05. Reason: awfuel spulling
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: heathrow
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Passengers often mock the fact that they really don't need to be told how to operate a seatbelt, however investigation has shown that in some emergency situations evacuation has been delayed by people wasting time trying to unfasten the seatbelt. That is the one they are instinctively used to.........in their car, where the buckle is down the side of the seat and not in their lap. Those who listened carefully to the briefing should have the advantage of having this information in the short term memory.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Jose
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As someone with an interest in what happens when things go wrong and why it happens, I do pay attention to the safety briefing, if only to confirm that it's the same as last time. I tend to confirm the nearest exits before taking my seat. I usually get to go through the safety card in great detail, explaining all the symbols and drawings to my young son who wants to know what they all mean.
When they do aircraft certification tests, are all the passengers briefed as per a normal briefing? If so, perhaps it would be interesting to brief half of them beforehand and not do an in-cabin briefing to simulate real life a bit better as half the passengers would be ignorant of what to do?
When they do aircraft certification tests, are all the passengers briefed as per a normal briefing? If so, perhaps it would be interesting to brief half of them beforehand and not do an in-cabin briefing to simulate real life a bit better as half the passengers would be ignorant of what to do?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: YYZ via the UK
Age: 49
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This part I find interesting
Again I link this to the Air France report as this is most recent...and I think is directly related to this topic. It has been mentioned on another thread that a group of passengers is suing various groups in relation to this incident.
Now granted the evacuation of the aircraft was done speedily and efficiently...and the cabin crew came out of this with great credit.
My question is....if the passengers who took their personal belongings with them were found to have ignored the safety briefing...and the briefing tells people not to take personals in the event of an evacuation...are they able to sue other bodies when their actions may have endangered others aswell?
Can you prove someone has not listened to the information?
Anybody who has not watched the briefing could be gulity of endangering the aircraft as they may slow down an evacuation. It is an offence at anytime to endanger an aircraft.
Again I link this to the Air France report as this is most recent...and I think is directly related to this topic. It has been mentioned on another thread that a group of passengers is suing various groups in relation to this incident.
Now granted the evacuation of the aircraft was done speedily and efficiently...and the cabin crew came out of this with great credit.
My question is....if the passengers who took their personal belongings with them were found to have ignored the safety briefing...and the briefing tells people not to take personals in the event of an evacuation...are they able to sue other bodies when their actions may have endangered others aswell?
Can you prove someone has not listened to the information?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: heathrow
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This part I find interesting
My question is....if the passengers who took their personal belongings with them were found to have ignored the safety briefing...and the briefing tells people not to take personals in the event of an evacuation...are they able to sue other bodies when their actions may have endangered others aswell?
Can you prove someone has not listened to the information?
Can you prove someone has not listened to the information?
I would say as a non lawyer that you could sue someone for endangering an aircraft if they stopped to pick up personal belongings. The safety certificate given to a public transport aircraft which I believe means it can be evacutaed in 90 secs using all exits, is not based on picking up personal belongings but what do you call personal belongings, if I take my copy of 'Airline Babes' thats personal belongings, however if I try to collect my Double Base it could be a very different matter.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: heathrow
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When they do aircraft certification tests, are all the passengers briefed as per a normal briefing? If so, perhaps it would be interesting to brief half of them beforehand and not do an in-cabin briefing to simulate real life a bit better as half the passengers would be ignorant of what to do?
Take my advice always try and sit by an emergency exit, I always do.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a legal requirement on the Captain to ensure that all of the passengers are suitably briefed, however there is no compulsion on the passenger to listen.
Not quite correct (calling all pilots please read the ANO)
The relevant portion to your statement is, the commander of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to ensure—
As I already stated in the previous post there are conditions that allow the Captain to refuse to carry any person that he feels is acting in contravention of the conditions of carriage and this would provide for such a sanction if it was deemed appropriate.
"The cabin crew will shortly give you a safety briefing please listen and watch and give your full attention to the crew." (That is an order not a request)
If a cabin crew member reported to me that xyz passenger had not looked or listened to the briefing technically I cannot fly.
In the interests of example to passengers reading this thread I'd like to add my name to the list of professional pilots who watch the briefing and read the safety card.
In the UNLIKELY event that it goes wrong, it's going to go wrong SPECTACULARLY. I will be in a state of shock and should have mentally rehearsed my post event actions.
I run through:
Where the doors are.
How they're opened.
Have a think about opening (Check outside for fire or obstruction, check in automatic, where's the manual inflation toggle - just not your day if you need to use that!)
Where am I in relation to the front, rear, wings?
Is floor level lighting fitted?
Where is my lifejacket stowed and does it feel as if there's actually one in there?
. . and a few other little bits and pieces.
SO, if captains with thousands of hours flying big jets consider it a good idea to pay attention, it may be worthwhile for everyone to have a look at what they're going to do.
Remember: it's still safer than your car
In the UNLIKELY event that it goes wrong, it's going to go wrong SPECTACULARLY. I will be in a state of shock and should have mentally rehearsed my post event actions.
I run through:
Where the doors are.
How they're opened.
Have a think about opening (Check outside for fire or obstruction, check in automatic, where's the manual inflation toggle - just not your day if you need to use that!)
Where am I in relation to the front, rear, wings?
Is floor level lighting fitted?
Where is my lifejacket stowed and does it feel as if there's actually one in there?
. . and a few other little bits and pieces.
SO, if captains with thousands of hours flying big jets consider it a good idea to pay attention, it may be worthwhile for everyone to have a look at what they're going to do.
Remember: it's still safer than your car
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Filton
Age: 57
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fly frequently and, hands in the air, admit I was guilty of feigning interest in the safety drill. After all, the plane isn't going to crash, is it? And if it does, we're all burnt crispy persons anyway.
Last December, however, I flew with my partner from Bristol - Ivalo on one of these "visit Lapland and see Father Christmas on a daytrip" excursions. We don't have kids, it was just going to be an experience.
As the only two adults without children on the flight, we were seated in the emergency exit seats............loads of legroom, bargain.
Then the cabin crew supervisor came upto us just before takeoff and said, in hushed tones, "if we run into problems, we WILL need your assistance in evacuating the aircraft".
I can assure you, I've never listened more intently, then or now, to the safety drill.......
Last December, however, I flew with my partner from Bristol - Ivalo on one of these "visit Lapland and see Father Christmas on a daytrip" excursions. We don't have kids, it was just going to be an experience.
As the only two adults without children on the flight, we were seated in the emergency exit seats............loads of legroom, bargain.
Then the cabin crew supervisor came upto us just before takeoff and said, in hushed tones, "if we run into problems, we WILL need your assistance in evacuating the aircraft".
I can assure you, I've never listened more intently, then or now, to the safety drill.......
Thread Starter
Well, I seem to hold an unpopular position here.
I will just make a few more points and then shut-up
Of course I perform check lists when I am the pilot. It is part of my professional duty to do so. I would say I am more particular about this than many of the FO’s with whom I fly. I find in general there is a tendency to recitation rather than really checking – for what it’s worth.
However, when I am a passenger, this is a different matter. Now I am a member of the public. I take responsibility for my own safety, and I base my actions on my assessment of risk. I know where the exits are without the briefing, because I look, And, lets face it, most passenger cabins are pretty standard.
To all those who seem to worry about air crashes, I would ask:
Do you wear a crash helmet while driving?
Why not. It is easy and pretty cheap and it will save your life more often than an obsessive interest in safety briefings.
I will just make a few more points and then shut-up
Of course I perform check lists when I am the pilot. It is part of my professional duty to do so. I would say I am more particular about this than many of the FO’s with whom I fly. I find in general there is a tendency to recitation rather than really checking – for what it’s worth.
However, when I am a passenger, this is a different matter. Now I am a member of the public. I take responsibility for my own safety, and I base my actions on my assessment of risk. I know where the exits are without the briefing, because I look, And, lets face it, most passenger cabins are pretty standard.
To all those who seem to worry about air crashes, I would ask:
Do you wear a crash helmet while driving?
Why not. It is easy and pretty cheap and it will save your life more often than an obsessive interest in safety briefings.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Legal, compulsory, mandatory, ANO compliance blah, blah, blah...
It's just bloody appalling manners to disregard an aviation professional who is taking the trouble to explain how you might save your life and the lives of others around you, should the unfortunate moment arise. Any claims to ignore the briefing by fellow aviation professionals is surely bogus.
It's just bloody appalling manners to disregard an aviation professional who is taking the trouble to explain how you might save your life and the lives of others around you, should the unfortunate moment arise. Any claims to ignore the briefing by fellow aviation professionals is surely bogus.
Well, I had 113 flights as a passenger in 2007 - on CRJ200, CRJ700, BAe146, AvroRJ85, B737, A300 and A319,320,321.
All are different. I always stop whatever I'm doing and watch the brief. Even though I can probably repeat the 'Sauerstoffmaske aus der Kabindecke' speech in my sleep, it is commonsense and good manners to stop and listen. I also read the card - because I don't want to have to remember whether it's a rotate and push, lift and push or other type of door opening if I need to get out in a hurry.
Mind you, the pursers do have a bit of dry humour at times - the theatrical pause when they say "..emergency exits, which are marked by the word......exit" does make me want to say "No ****, Sherlock".
"Right you lot. Sit down, shut up, strap in and listen. Don't annoy the girls, you'll be fed when we feed you and we'll get there when we do. Got that OK?"
All are different. I always stop whatever I'm doing and watch the brief. Even though I can probably repeat the 'Sauerstoffmaske aus der Kabindecke' speech in my sleep, it is commonsense and good manners to stop and listen. I also read the card - because I don't want to have to remember whether it's a rotate and push, lift and push or other type of door opening if I need to get out in a hurry.
Mind you, the pursers do have a bit of dry humour at times - the theatrical pause when they say "..emergency exits, which are marked by the word......exit" does make me want to say "No ****, Sherlock".
"Right you lot. Sit down, shut up, strap in and listen. Don't annoy the girls, you'll be fed when we feed you and we'll get there when we do. Got that OK?"
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: below the sky
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the cabin crew play a part in how attentive the passengers are to safety announcements.
On a recent 738 flight, Sydney - Brisbane, the two (beautiful) female flight attendants demonstrated the safety equipment, as the male crewmember conducted the briefing "In the event that this flight turns into a cruise!, your life jackets are located under the seats" etc.
Believe me, there was no one playing with their blackberry's.
On a recent 738 flight, Sydney - Brisbane, the two (beautiful) female flight attendants demonstrated the safety equipment, as the male crewmember conducted the briefing "In the event that this flight turns into a cruise!, your life jackets are located under the seats" etc.
Believe me, there was no one playing with their blackberry's.
I guess I'm just awkward.
I always listen to and talk along with the safety briefing, check the life jacket is actually present (it's not unknown for them to have been nicked) despite having flown 80+ times last year.
It's only polite.
Even though we could be better off with a safety briefing before getting on the motorway from the airport - which is far more dangeorus than flying!
I always listen to and talk along with the safety briefing, check the life jacket is actually present (it's not unknown for them to have been nicked) despite having flown 80+ times last year.
It's only polite.
Even though we could be better off with a safety briefing before getting on the motorway from the airport - which is far more dangeorus than flying!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 24/7 Hardcore Heaven
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My top tip...when you get on, count how may rows you are away from the nearest exit. You may not be able to see them in an emergency but you can count them by touch. I do this religiously whenever I fly, bit OCD I know but who knows..may just save my life one day.
This subject has been done to death over and over again. OK, I do watch the Safety Briefing as a courtesy to the crew, but in actual fact I have already briefed myself before the demo has even begun. That's because if the $hite hits the fan I want to be prepared and I have a plan (well more than one, depending on the circumstances).
Reading comments on forums from crews advocating the wisdom and courtesy of paying attention to Safety Briefings, I am remimded the fact that one of the flights I regularly travel on always includes a positioning crew (in uniform) on board. On all occasions I have observed how they have continued to chat and joke with each other as the demo is given! What a great example to the rest of the pax that is!
Reading comments on forums from crews advocating the wisdom and courtesy of paying attention to Safety Briefings, I am remimded the fact that one of the flights I regularly travel on always includes a positioning crew (in uniform) on board. On all occasions I have observed how they have continued to chat and joke with each other as the demo is given! What a great example to the rest of the pax that is!