Safety Brief - Is it compulsory to listen?
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We have one widebody type of aircraft in our company and at one time three different cabin and exit layouts, and different exit types in each part of the aircraft type in some cases. I doubt if it is possible for a regular customer with us to completely remember and memorise all of these.
It's politeness and good manners to watch the briefing whether you are customer or crew, on our smaller type I quite often stand visible in front of the customers whilst I read off the demo and 99% of people watch, its far more personable and gains fuller attention than a video demo.
For those who don't, you are quite likely the ignoramuses that will probably cause a problem during an evacuation through your lack of situational awarness and knowledge of a particular aircraft's layout or safety features/equipment, and could possibly kill others and yourself through your ignorance in the event of an emergency.
I'm not sure that anyone not watching should be subject to the threat of arrest/action unless they are being disruptive, I think that there are far too many cabin crew that are a bit too quick to steam in with ultimatums when they are simply not required and when a polite couple of words will usually suffice.
It's politeness and good manners to watch the briefing whether you are customer or crew, on our smaller type I quite often stand visible in front of the customers whilst I read off the demo and 99% of people watch, its far more personable and gains fuller attention than a video demo.
For those who don't, you are quite likely the ignoramuses that will probably cause a problem during an evacuation through your lack of situational awarness and knowledge of a particular aircraft's layout or safety features/equipment, and could possibly kill others and yourself through your ignorance in the event of an emergency.
I'm not sure that anyone not watching should be subject to the threat of arrest/action unless they are being disruptive, I think that there are far too many cabin crew that are a bit too quick to steam in with ultimatums when they are simply not required and when a polite couple of words will usually suffice.
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Originally Posted by Avman
Reading comments on forums from crews advocating the wisdom and courtesy of paying attention to Safety Briefings, I am remimded the fact that one of the flights I regularly travel on always includes a positioning crew (in uniform) on board. On all occasions I have observed how they have continued to chat and joke with each other as the demo is given! What a great example to the rest of the pax that is!
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I saw the following statement made on the UK Guardian "Comment is Free" Blog today. And I wondered if this could be true?
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In an evacuation situation, how is anything a passenger is liable to do likely to endanger the AIRCRAFT? I can see them endangering themselves, other passengers and possibly the crew - but not the aircraft itself.
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Actually yes you can, provided you have taken all reasonable steps to ensure compliance. Again you have the sanction to remove a passenger prior to departure if that passenger is being willfully obstructive or indeed for any other reason you see fit, however the ANO| should be read for what it actually says and not for what you would like it to say.
How the ANO is interpreted is up to me as the commander, the law may be interpreted in many different ways but on my aircraft it is only interpreted in one way-mine.
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To Lord Lucan
You should watch. If it come down to it, I will not come back and save your arse when you really have no idea what to do. TRUST ME , I HAVE BEEN IN A MINIMUM TIME DITCHING IN THE LAST 10 YEARS. The 
like you who did not watch, most did not live to tell the story. I have worked for airlines for the last 15 years. As I said, within the last 10 years I have had a ditching. When it hit's the fan,you have no idea what it is really like.
Undersiege.
like you who did not watch, most did not live to tell the story. I have worked for airlines for the last 15 years. As I said, within the last 10 years I have had a ditching. When it hit's the fan,you have no idea what it is really like. Undersiege.
Fly Conventional Gear
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I wrote this on another thread, but I think it's worth posting here again:
When the hijacked Ethiopian 767 crashed off the coast of Africa it became clear that a number of the passengers had...despite being told by the captain minutes before impact NOT to inflate their life jackets...done just that: inflated their life jackets inside the cabin.
The results were predictable, when the plane hit the water it filled so quickly passengers had to dive under water in order to get to the exits. Those who had not inflated their life jackets could hold their breath and dive for it. Those who had inflated their life jackets floated to the top of the cabin and were trapped against the ceiling.
Listen to the safety briefing, it might one day save your life.
Lord Lucan, I'm sure you do know the brief off by heart...and I'm sure you'd do fine in an emergency (not that I approve of not watching the briefing...I think it is rude not to listen and as I said above it could save your life)...but honestly one must question the sanity of someone who admits to not listening to the briefing on here, I mean you must have realised you were going to get a broadside a la PPRuNe when you first posted.
Forgive me for saying this but it just sounds like a wind up.
When the hijacked Ethiopian 767 crashed off the coast of Africa it became clear that a number of the passengers had...despite being told by the captain minutes before impact NOT to inflate their life jackets...done just that: inflated their life jackets inside the cabin.
The results were predictable, when the plane hit the water it filled so quickly passengers had to dive under water in order to get to the exits. Those who had not inflated their life jackets could hold their breath and dive for it. Those who had inflated their life jackets floated to the top of the cabin and were trapped against the ceiling.
Listen to the safety briefing, it might one day save your life.
Lord Lucan, I'm sure you do know the brief off by heart...and I'm sure you'd do fine in an emergency (not that I approve of not watching the briefing...I think it is rude not to listen and as I said above it could save your life)...but honestly one must question the sanity of someone who admits to not listening to the briefing on here, I mean you must have realised you were going to get a broadside a la PPRuNe when you first posted.
Forgive me for saying this but it just sounds like a wind up.
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I also believe that in the Ethiopian incident they found passengers still strapped in their seats, with scratch marks on their side indicating that they were frantically trying to unbuckle their seatbelts as if they were in a car.
I flew for a charter airline where it was compulsory for passengers to pay attention. We were instructed to approach passengers reading or talking and ask them to hold back for a few minutes.
Charter aircraft are very different from scheduled aircraft, except for EZY/FR. The high density requires a different approach to SEP. By nature, SEP training and implementation is much stricter on UK charter airlines. For example, there are many more restricted seats - all aisle seats in the first two rows and the last two rows for example.
The chances of a passenger to be travelling week in, week out on a Monarch flight are slim, not impossible but slim. The passenger profile on ALC is going to be very different to, say the Friday night FRA on BA.
I flew for a charter airline where it was compulsory for passengers to pay attention. We were instructed to approach passengers reading or talking and ask them to hold back for a few minutes.
Charter aircraft are very different from scheduled aircraft, except for EZY/FR. The high density requires a different approach to SEP. By nature, SEP training and implementation is much stricter on UK charter airlines. For example, there are many more restricted seats - all aisle seats in the first two rows and the last two rows for example.
The chances of a passenger to be travelling week in, week out on a Monarch flight are slim, not impossible but slim. The passenger profile on ALC is going to be very different to, say the Friday night FRA on BA.
Fly Conventional Gear
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I flew for a charter airline where it was compulsory for passengers to pay attention. We were instructed to approach passengers reading or talking and ask them to hold back for a few minutes.
I have to say I find the idea that I might under extreme stress forget how to undo the seatbelt very scary. I listen to the safety demo.
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i have been working as cabin crew for many years and have seen that as flying has become such routine for many of us, that passengers take less notice of the safety demo's as much as they used to.
In an ideal world it would be great to see all watching me or the video screens, but alas thats not gonna happen. I have got past the stage of worrying if someone is watching because they are reading or writing, that is up to them.
I do take exception to people who like to continue with their loud conversations during the demo.
I would politely ask that they put their conversation on 'hold' for the few minutes the demo takes. I do this not for their concern, but for the other people around them, that may not have flown much before(if at all, there are some still out there)and do generally want to listen and see what they would have to do in the event of an emergency.
I would like to think that i am acting in the best interests of the many, rather than treating a pasenger badly.
Merry xmas and happy flying to you all.
In an ideal world it would be great to see all watching me or the video screens, but alas thats not gonna happen. I have got past the stage of worrying if someone is watching because they are reading or writing, that is up to them.
I do take exception to people who like to continue with their loud conversations during the demo.
I would politely ask that they put their conversation on 'hold' for the few minutes the demo takes. I do this not for their concern, but for the other people around them, that may not have flown much before(if at all, there are some still out there)and do generally want to listen and see what they would have to do in the event of an emergency.
I would like to think that i am acting in the best interests of the many, rather than treating a pasenger badly.
Merry xmas and happy flying to you all.
A couple of years back, I was on a LGW to VCE flight on BA. Safety briefing starts, about half the PAX carried on talking and not paying attention. Purser stops the briefing and gets on the PA and tells the PAX in no uncertain terms that this briefing is for their safety and and it also affects her, so they BETTER listen! When she stops, a few PAX clap, with cries of 'hear, hear'. Re runs safety briefing in silence, and gets attention - and a number of PAX later congratulating her on her stand.
She did seem to preene herself a bit with getting some PAX support - I suspect it doesn't always happen.
I'm surprised nobody else appears to check that there REALLY is a lifejacket under the seat and it's not been nicked. I have on one occasion found on BA that it wasn't there, and it took about 20 seconds after telling the CC and them checking, for another one to appear. And we hadn't even pushed back!
She did seem to preene herself a bit with getting some PAX support - I suspect it doesn't always happen.
I'm surprised nobody else appears to check that there REALLY is a lifejacket under the seat and it's not been nicked. I have on one occasion found on BA that it wasn't there, and it took about 20 seconds after telling the CC and them checking, for another one to appear. And we hadn't even pushed back!
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I feel the bottom line on all of this can be summed up in one word "MANNERS"
Whether you are a first time pax, frequent flyer or crew travelling in the pax cabin as the original poster states.
It is just pure manners to listen and pay attention when a member of the cabin crew is addressing everyone.
I don't give a toss whether you have flown thousands of miles, know where all the exits are, can find the emergency rows blindfolded or can put your life jacket on with one hand still on your G & T.
Neither do I care if you need to get that last email squeezed out of your Blackberry.
Just shut up for 5 minutes and pay attention and show some manners. Manners are something that is lacking in many parts of the world and, I am not just hitting at some of todays youth. It's prevalent in many age groups.
Ok, rant mode off.
Happy Christmas all
Whether you are a first time pax, frequent flyer or crew travelling in the pax cabin as the original poster states.
It is just pure manners to listen and pay attention when a member of the cabin crew is addressing everyone.
I don't give a toss whether you have flown thousands of miles, know where all the exits are, can find the emergency rows blindfolded or can put your life jacket on with one hand still on your G & T.
Neither do I care if you need to get that last email squeezed out of your Blackberry.
Just shut up for 5 minutes and pay attention and show some manners. Manners are something that is lacking in many parts of the world and, I am not just hitting at some of todays youth. It's prevalent in many age groups.
Ok, rant mode off.
Happy Christmas all
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Passengers decision whether to watch it or not.
My airline is required to provide a Safety Demonstration but the passenger can choose whether to watch it or not. (Written in front of me in black and white.)
It normally goes down to an individual crew member and how conduct themselves that can cause this situation happening.
Although i generally don't ask passengers to give full attention if standing in the cabin i am confident that a PA introducing the demo is always made (generally on more then one occasion advising full attention) and that fellow crew may wish to encourage full attention if they are happy to challenge a passenger.
It normally goes down to an individual crew member and how conduct themselves that can cause this situation happening.
Although i generally don't ask passengers to give full attention if standing in the cabin i am confident that a PA introducing the demo is always made (generally on more then one occasion advising full attention) and that fellow crew may wish to encourage full attention if they are happy to challenge a passenger.
Last edited by 2Fly2Serve; 24th Dec 2007 at 01:11. Reason: Edit Grammar.
Isn't there a valid argument that those who don't listen are actually a potential danger to those who have listened, because of panic or failure to know what to do?
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Passenger Psychology.
Radeng - An argument maybe, but obviously not important enough to warrant a policy in which it is mandatory everyone HAS to observe the Safety Demo. A passenger knowledgeable or not may still freeze up in shock etc...in a real evacuation and respond differently anyway.
As for passengers at overwings, exits etc... on my airline we brief those passengers individually and make sure you they understand the instructions and to read the information in front of them and safety card. Again we don't force anyone and we are not happy we move them. We don't even have to move non English speaking passengers from sitting next to the exit.
As for passengers at overwings, exits etc... on my airline we brief those passengers individually and make sure you they understand the instructions and to read the information in front of them and safety card. Again we don't force anyone and we are not happy we move them. We don't even have to move non English speaking passengers from sitting next to the exit.
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Isn't there a valid argument that those who don't listen are actually a potential danger to those who have listened, because of panic or failure to know what to do?
Anyone who obviously doesn't pay attention to the safety brief deserves a swift kick in the nuts! Even if you know it backwards, it is common courtesy to listen - after all it's only about 2 minutes out of your life, if that!
.........as for crews pi55ing about during the brief, it's irritating but it's gone on since Pontius was a Pilot! The safety brief is often a good opportunity for a practical joke on the newbie - like smearing bitter-tasting "Stop N Grow", or hot "Tabasco" sauce on the mouthpiece of the lifejacket or a bit of mascara around the lifejacket neck so that the demonstrator either grimaces from the taste or gets black smudges on the face or neck! It's pretty harmless fun, all things considered!
Happy Christmas Everyone - we're almost there!
Last edited by bealine; 24th Dec 2007 at 19:58.
crews pi55ing about during the brief
" . . . and there is a whistle to attract passing sailors."
The Air Scotia line by camp steward as stewardess demonstrated manual inflation "She does that awfully well."
Paxing All Over The World
radeng
When I did the check and found it missing, the CC looked at me blank faced and no replacement arrived. As there was open water about 5km from the runway .... I'll leave you to guess the name of carrier (not BA) 
but they are OFF my visiting list.
I'm surprised nobody else appears to check that there REALLY is a lifejacket under the seat and it's not been nicked. I have on one occasion found on BA that it wasn't there, and it took about 20 seconds after telling the CC and them checking, for another one to appear. And we hadn't even pushed back!
but they are OFF my visiting list.
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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A salutary tale about frequent fliers....
A number of years ago, during a spell in my career when I was flying as a pax perhaps 100+ times per year, I took a flight in the WTP cabin of a BA747, just after that class had been introduced. Next to me was a guy who started to smirk as I broke off my conversation with him to listen to the safety brief. He made some crack about me being "not used to planes, I've heard this all before".
Like one of the previous posters, I also bent forward to touch my lifejacket - my neighbour thought this very odd - but was was odder was that I couldn't find the lifejacket. It couldn't have been under the seat (there is a footrest there) and the seat isn't wide enough to be in the centre console. The brief said that it would be "under my seat", so after the brief was done, I asked a passing CC member. She seemed slightly surprised that I couldn't find it, then after a brief inspection (during which time my neighbour was making sarcastic comments about if I were a real frequent flyer, I would know where it was) - she admitted she couldn't find it either. Eventually the CSD found it, in a pocket in the extending foot rest. Not obvious, not placarded and not spelt out in the brief. (CSD was shocked, took my details and passed them on to BA, and very rapidly I had a nice letter, and the brief in WTP was slightly modified, as were the seat back cards).
If I had taken Lord Lucan's advice, and assumed that I didn't need to listen to the brief, since both I and my neighbour had flown soooooo much, the first time I would have noticed that I couldn't find the lifejacket would have been a small amount of time before BOAC became BOAT....
I always listen. Why is it so hard? It is a few minutes out of my life. It is a mark of good manners to listen to, and watch someone, who is imparting information - especially information that may help to save my life. Anyone who thinks that what they are doing is more important than listening to a fellow human being who is talking to them is rude and ignorant enough to be beneath contempt.
A number of years ago, during a spell in my career when I was flying as a pax perhaps 100+ times per year, I took a flight in the WTP cabin of a BA747, just after that class had been introduced. Next to me was a guy who started to smirk as I broke off my conversation with him to listen to the safety brief. He made some crack about me being "not used to planes, I've heard this all before".
Like one of the previous posters, I also bent forward to touch my lifejacket - my neighbour thought this very odd - but was was odder was that I couldn't find the lifejacket. It couldn't have been under the seat (there is a footrest there) and the seat isn't wide enough to be in the centre console. The brief said that it would be "under my seat", so after the brief was done, I asked a passing CC member. She seemed slightly surprised that I couldn't find it, then after a brief inspection (during which time my neighbour was making sarcastic comments about if I were a real frequent flyer, I would know where it was) - she admitted she couldn't find it either. Eventually the CSD found it, in a pocket in the extending foot rest. Not obvious, not placarded and not spelt out in the brief. (CSD was shocked, took my details and passed them on to BA, and very rapidly I had a nice letter, and the brief in WTP was slightly modified, as were the seat back cards).
If I had taken Lord Lucan's advice, and assumed that I didn't need to listen to the brief, since both I and my neighbour had flown soooooo much, the first time I would have noticed that I couldn't find the lifejacket would have been a small amount of time before BOAC became BOAT....
I always listen. Why is it so hard? It is a few minutes out of my life. It is a mark of good manners to listen to, and watch someone, who is imparting information - especially information that may help to save my life. Anyone who thinks that what they are doing is more important than listening to a fellow human being who is talking to them is rude and ignorant enough to be beneath contempt.
Fly Conventional Gear
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Not obvious, not placarded and not spelt out in the brief. (CSD was shocked, took my details and passed them on to BA, and very rapidly I had a nice letter, and the brief in WTP was slightly modified, as were the seat back cards).
I forget the airline but I remember once the brief mentioning three different places the life jacket might be depending on what class you were in. It took me a moment to think where mine might be...and it took me a while to actually find it. If I hadn't found it prior to take off and we had had an emergency, in the dark and in the panic it would have taken me ages to find it, if at all.
The other thing (a tip I picked up on here actually) I do is to count the number of seats to the nearest exit during the brief.
Last edited by Contacttower; 29th Dec 2007 at 16:07.