Ryanair forces boy with leg in plaster to stand on 2 hour flight
I call you back
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Either the boy was standing for the flight or he was not.
If it was the latter FR should sue the Mail. If it was the former there should be an investigation into what is a serious breach of regulations and a serious threat to the safety of all passengers on board ( picture what happens a standing 16 year old in cast when you slam on the brakes at 140mph and imagine him hitting you in the back of the head ).
It would be reckless to allow any passenger to stand for flight and to be aware of this before departure and if true the Captain and the Senior could be in serious trouble.
However it is also likely that the Mail have taken a few comments and turned it into a story. If that is the case then I really hope FR use their lawyers in a useful manner for aviation for once.
As for the other comments. The nervous handwringing by FR defenders is pathetic. It is either the boys fault, his supervisors fault, security's fault or the ground handlers fault, anybody but those actually responsible when the doors close.
Just because Michael O'Leary has decided that an airline is not a service but merely a bully taking your lunch money does not make it so. This is a service industry no matter what he or his cronies think and we should be looking after our passengers, particularly injured children.
If it was the latter FR should sue the Mail. If it was the former there should be an investigation into what is a serious breach of regulations and a serious threat to the safety of all passengers on board ( picture what happens a standing 16 year old in cast when you slam on the brakes at 140mph and imagine him hitting you in the back of the head ).
It would be reckless to allow any passenger to stand for flight and to be aware of this before departure and if true the Captain and the Senior could be in serious trouble.
However it is also likely that the Mail have taken a few comments and turned it into a story. If that is the case then I really hope FR use their lawyers in a useful manner for aviation for once.
As for the other comments. The nervous handwringing by FR defenders is pathetic. It is either the boys fault, his supervisors fault, security's fault or the ground handlers fault, anybody but those actually responsible when the doors close.
Just because Michael O'Leary has decided that an airline is not a service but merely a bully taking your lunch money does not make it so. This is a service industry no matter what he or his cronies think and we should be looking after our passengers, particularly injured children.
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I think I would give FR the benefit of the doubt on this sorry drama.
I guess they will feel better paying BA fares next time then.
The parents should have been at the gate to make sure the crew knew about the situation.
In a letter to the airline, she (the mother) wrote: "It seems that commercial greed and your shareholders are the only concerns of your company, with the customer being a necessary evil and inconvenience."
A spokesman for Ryanair said: "We apologise to Mr Cannon that our handling agents in Bergamo did not follow the correct procedure by advising our cabin crew in advance of his broken leg.
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Regarding the split cast point raised....i think it would be more appropriate for a medically qualified person to answer because I certainly am not, but i will offer my thoughts on the matter.....
I think it is advisable for the cast to be split if the pax is travelling with 48 hours or so of the accident, as swelling can be an issue after take off. Outside 48 hours, maybe swellin isn't such an issue, not no necessity to split the cast. I assume the issuing of a medical certificate would have taken into account the time apsect of things. It would be good for all to have to opinion of a qualified medical person on this subject.
I think it is advisable for the cast to be split if the pax is travelling with 48 hours or so of the accident, as swelling can be an issue after take off. Outside 48 hours, maybe swellin isn't such an issue, not no necessity to split the cast. I assume the issuing of a medical certificate would have taken into account the time apsect of things. It would be good for all to have to opinion of a qualified medical person on this subject.
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If Ryanair had refused him travel you would be jumping up and down for them leaving the poor boy behind. How could he sit in row 1 as it is an emergency exit?? As somebody else has already said why didnt somebody in his group find another seat and leave him with 2 free seats. what would have happened if the flight was full?
This is just an excuse to fill up the paper and write a story bashing Ryanair.
This is just an excuse to fill up the paper and write a story bashing Ryanair.
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Congratulations
A spokesman for Ryanair said: "We apologise to Mr Cannon that our handling agents in Bergamo did not follow the correct procedure by advising our cabin crew in advance of his broken leg.
Is this a first?
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from a USA perspective
sadly, southwest airlines (the model low fare, low cost carrier) charges larger people for two seats and has made that fact well known.
as to denying flight/denying boarding, I have had to do that to a person who requested oxygen prior to flight. pax had a note from a doctor requesting oxygen. the low cost carrier within a carrier had a policy of not providing supplemental medical oxygen, while the higher cost carrier would.
I even got medical advice on the subject, and we offered to rebook the passenger on the other side of our same airline.
as to "WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO AVIATION", it is a sad state of affairs, and of course it is all about MONEY.
funny, in the USA, there was more leg room, faster flying times, better looking flight attendants, and happier passengers 40 years ago than today. EG: flight time between New York, and Miami is longer today than 40 years ago! (planes flew faster then instead of fuel efficient profiles now)
and this is progress?
sadly, southwest airlines (the model low fare, low cost carrier) charges larger people for two seats and has made that fact well known.
as to denying flight/denying boarding, I have had to do that to a person who requested oxygen prior to flight. pax had a note from a doctor requesting oxygen. the low cost carrier within a carrier had a policy of not providing supplemental medical oxygen, while the higher cost carrier would.
I even got medical advice on the subject, and we offered to rebook the passenger on the other side of our same airline.
as to "WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO AVIATION", it is a sad state of affairs, and of course it is all about MONEY.
funny, in the USA, there was more leg room, faster flying times, better looking flight attendants, and happier passengers 40 years ago than today. EG: flight time between New York, and Miami is longer today than 40 years ago! (planes flew faster then instead of fuel efficient profiles now)
and this is progress?
The Reverend
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Nobody seems to have mentioned the most obvious point of the matter. If the lad needed two seats and sitting sidewise to allow his plastered leg to fit between the seat rows, how on earth could he have safely evacuated in an emergency? In my opinion, he should have been medivaced home by his insurance company.
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I totally agree with the comments about the ground staff. All to often I have received pax at the aircraft unfit to travel (usually through drink) They should never have been allowed to proceed this far leaving humiliation and embarrassment for the people who have to offload them, resulting in delays whilst their baggage is removed and distress to the crew and the other passengers.
If this boy had been adequately insured, his policy would have repatriated him in a safe and comfortable manner.
Much as I cannot condone the attitude of the crew, this just seems to be another press pop at the low cost carriers. The less people pay for their flights, the more they seem to expect.
If this boy had been adequately insured, his policy would have repatriated him in a safe and comfortable manner.
Much as I cannot condone the attitude of the crew, this just seems to be another press pop at the low cost carriers. The less people pay for their flights, the more they seem to expect.
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Hot Dog - As i have said before, it is a common occurance to carry pax with plaster casts on home from various ski destinations. They cant sit in seats which are solely allocated for able bodied pax ie row 1 and o'wing exit seats, but other than that they can legally sit (or lay!) in any other seat and it is quite frankly up to them to get out in the event of an evacuation. The c/s would help if at all possible.
Ground Bound - I agree but safety still has to be maintained if you're a national carrier or low coster, so I would hope the cabin secure subject would be looked at. There can be only two outcomes, either the airline is leeting its standards slip or the press have got it wrong again.
Ground Bound - I agree but safety still has to be maintained if you're a national carrier or low coster, so I would hope the cabin secure subject would be looked at. There can be only two outcomes, either the airline is leeting its standards slip or the press have got it wrong again.
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HotDog - wrt to people who are invalid / infirm (be that physically and / or mentally) evacuating from an aircraft in an emergency... the plain and simple answer is that they are not going to be able to evacuate, and that's a risk that they (and those travelling with them) have to take. That said, quite whether they are aware of the risk and / or likely outcome is another matter?! 
Life is full of 'risk'; Nobody gets out alive!
Life is full of 'risk'; Nobody gets out alive!
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The Southwest Airlines policy for larger passengers is fair. For those pax who are large and cannot fit within one seat (ie not occupying part of seat next to him/her) the airline has a policy that is fair to the large traveler and those sitting next to the individual. Knowing this in advance leaves little for confusion and allows larger pax to plan accordingly as to guarantee space on confirmed flights. Many legacy carriers here in the US have similar policies yet do not make them well known for fear of bad publicity.
In this case, too many people made assumptions and did nothing to plan the trip home for this individual given his condition nor did the airline properly handle it.
Here is the policy for Continental Airlines (found on the net, assumed to be legit)
Customers Requiring Extra Seating
A customer flying in the economy cabin who is not able to safely and comfortably fit in a single seat is required to purchase an additional seat for each leg of their itinerary. The second seat may be purchased for the same fare as the original seat, provided it is purchased at the same time. A customer who does not purchase an extra seat in advance may be required to do so on the day of departure for the fare level available on the day of departure. The customer may instead choose to purchase a ticket for First Class/Business/BusinessFirst®, or elect to pay for an upgrade to the front cabin if there is availability to do so. Continental Airlines is not required to provide additional seats or upgrades free of charge.
A customer is required to purchase an additional seat or upgrade if they do not meet one of the following criteria:
The customer must be able to properly attach, buckle and wear the seatbelt, with one extension* if necessary, whenever the seatbelt sign is illuminated or as instructed by a crew member.
The customer must be able to remain seated with the seat armrest(s) down for the entirety of the flight.
The customer must not significantly encroach upon the adjacent seating space. See our seat maps.
Continental Airlines will not board a customer who declines to purchase a ticket for an additional seat or upgrade for each leg of their itinerary when required.
*The average length of the seatbelt extension is approximately 25 inches. As the seat designs on our aircraft vary, it is possible that the seatbelt extension presented on your flight provides less than 25 inches of additional coverage. Regardless of the actual additional length the extension provides, if you do not meet criteria #1 listed above when using the extension provided on your flight, it will be necessary for you to purchase an additional seat or an upgrade, where available.
Additional Procedures
The additional seat must be available without downgrading or unseating another customer. If an additional seat is not available on the flight for which the customer is confirmed, he or she is required to rebook on the next Continental Airlines flight with seats available for accommodation. Continental will waive penalties or fees that may otherwise apply to this change.
If the customer is away from his or her domicile and must rebook for a flight the following day, amenities including applicable meals and hotel accommodations for one night will be provided as appropriate. When the customer is able to rebook for a later flight on the same day as originally scheduled, amenities will not be provided.
__________________________________________________ __
I also found these tidbits from CO's COntract of Carriage:
RULE 21 REFUSAL TO TRANSPORT
CO shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any
Passenger for the following reasons:
……………..
H) Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a Passenger may be necessary for the safety of such Passenger or other
Passengers or members of the crew, including, but not limited to:
………………..
6) Persons who are unable to sit in a single seat with the seat belt properly secured, unless they comply with
Rule 6 I); (see below)
I) Passengers Occupying Two Seats
Upon request, or if determined necessary by CO, and given availability, a Passenger will be permitted to the
exclusive use of two seats subject to the payment of two applicable fares for the points between which the two
seats will be used. A Ticket will be issued for each seat and the normal free baggage allowance will apply in
connection with each such Ticket presented to CO.
In this case, too many people made assumptions and did nothing to plan the trip home for this individual given his condition nor did the airline properly handle it.
Here is the policy for Continental Airlines (found on the net, assumed to be legit)
Customers Requiring Extra Seating
A customer flying in the economy cabin who is not able to safely and comfortably fit in a single seat is required to purchase an additional seat for each leg of their itinerary. The second seat may be purchased for the same fare as the original seat, provided it is purchased at the same time. A customer who does not purchase an extra seat in advance may be required to do so on the day of departure for the fare level available on the day of departure. The customer may instead choose to purchase a ticket for First Class/Business/BusinessFirst®, or elect to pay for an upgrade to the front cabin if there is availability to do so. Continental Airlines is not required to provide additional seats or upgrades free of charge.
A customer is required to purchase an additional seat or upgrade if they do not meet one of the following criteria:
The customer must be able to properly attach, buckle and wear the seatbelt, with one extension* if necessary, whenever the seatbelt sign is illuminated or as instructed by a crew member.
The customer must be able to remain seated with the seat armrest(s) down for the entirety of the flight.
The customer must not significantly encroach upon the adjacent seating space. See our seat maps.
Continental Airlines will not board a customer who declines to purchase a ticket for an additional seat or upgrade for each leg of their itinerary when required.
*The average length of the seatbelt extension is approximately 25 inches. As the seat designs on our aircraft vary, it is possible that the seatbelt extension presented on your flight provides less than 25 inches of additional coverage. Regardless of the actual additional length the extension provides, if you do not meet criteria #1 listed above when using the extension provided on your flight, it will be necessary for you to purchase an additional seat or an upgrade, where available.
Additional Procedures
The additional seat must be available without downgrading or unseating another customer. If an additional seat is not available on the flight for which the customer is confirmed, he or she is required to rebook on the next Continental Airlines flight with seats available for accommodation. Continental will waive penalties or fees that may otherwise apply to this change.
If the customer is away from his or her domicile and must rebook for a flight the following day, amenities including applicable meals and hotel accommodations for one night will be provided as appropriate. When the customer is able to rebook for a later flight on the same day as originally scheduled, amenities will not be provided.
__________________________________________________ __
I also found these tidbits from CO's COntract of Carriage:
RULE 21 REFUSAL TO TRANSPORT
CO shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any
Passenger for the following reasons:
……………..
H) Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a Passenger may be necessary for the safety of such Passenger or other
Passengers or members of the crew, including, but not limited to:
………………..
6) Persons who are unable to sit in a single seat with the seat belt properly secured, unless they comply with
Rule 6 I); (see below)
I) Passengers Occupying Two Seats
Upon request, or if determined necessary by CO, and given availability, a Passenger will be permitted to the
exclusive use of two seats subject to the payment of two applicable fares for the points between which the two
seats will be used. A Ticket will be issued for each seat and the normal free baggage allowance will apply in
connection with each such Ticket presented to CO.
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"I was in a row of three seats. But only the one next to me was free - and it wasn't enough to take my plastered leg."
Tom's ordeal began when he was playing for a Hertfordshire youth team at an international football tournament in Milan.
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If a passenger has a broken leg and due to the plaster cast, they
are unable to bend their knee, they would need to purchase an
additional two seats, giving them a total of three seats.are unable to bend their knee, they would need to purchase an
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Most posters seem to have not seen or ignored the comments of Ryanair
"A spokesman for Ryanair said: "We apologise to Mr Cannon that our handling agents in Bergamo did not follow the correct procedure by advising our cabin crew in advance of his broken leg.
Ryanair itself seems to have accepted it failed the passenger and then go on to make the extraordinary comment
"However, we are pleased that our cabin crew were nonetheless able to provide him with special seating arrangements while on board and full assistance disembarking at Luton Airport."
Seating arrangements?
"A spokesman for Ryanair said: "We apologise to Mr Cannon that our handling agents in Bergamo did not follow the correct procedure by advising our cabin crew in advance of his broken leg.
Ryanair itself seems to have accepted it failed the passenger and then go on to make the extraordinary comment
"However, we are pleased that our cabin crew were nonetheless able to provide him with special seating arrangements while on board and full assistance disembarking at Luton Airport."
Seating arrangements?
The Analog Kid
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Hang on a mo, I've been reading this thread and focussing on the "who could have done what better" aspects and then a lightbulb went on in my head: just how small is the rake on FR, how tall is this lad and how thick was his cast? Why do I ask? Because my missus is 6' 2" (yep, you guessed it, she's Dutch) - and her right knee has been fused straight (okay, 2 or 3 degrees bent max) since she was a teenager. Now, we regularly sleazy it between AMS, BRS and so on and she can happily (okay, only just, but without discomfort) fit in one seat, let alone three. And no, she doesn't normally sit in the aisle seat and "cheat", as she appreciates that would be dangerous to her and everyone else, she sits with her right leg correctly under the seat in front of her.
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In the context of the cheap seats, presumably if they were on sale at 99p plus tax, he'd have only had to pay one lot of tax as it's per passenger? Assuming availability, that's only a couple of quid extra for comfort.
Or has Gordon pulled a fast one and levied his tax per seat in use?
Or has Gordon pulled a fast one and levied his tax per seat in use?
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I make no bones about it. I would have denied him travel if he could not safely seated. If the parents were that bothered they should have paid for an air ambulance or gone by train.
The Analog Kid
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Split Casts
Oh, on the subject of split casts, it's not that clear cut (er, sorry!!). I was signed off as fit to fly four days after having my wrist put back together last year (having fallen out of the sky) but the split is for pressure, not security, as most of you realise. In my case, I had a probably 320 degree plaster of paris cast with a 360 degree no-split modern cast over the top. (Yes, it was bloody heavy!!)
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View from the cabin...
Hey guys,
I'm not a pilot, but this story just caught my eye.
From a LCC cabin crews point of view, regardless whether this story is true or not:
How on earth could he have been strapped upright??? Where???
I cannot think of any spots in a plane where you can do that. Definitely not between seats... Any ideas anyone?
Every airline regularly carries people with reduced mobility, of course it is a problem when evacuating, but that is why they always sit "out of the way". Or if they are sitting in as isle seat, then have the accompanying person to sit "inside" and make them aware of the situation should an emergency occur.
He could have bought 3 seats, would have been perfectly fine, but I assume, when they bought the cheap tickets they didn't plan on coming home in a cast... A couple of days before departure you have to pay your pants off for 2 extra seats!!! Don't know how the insurance company deals with this, but the ground stuff should have told them and assisted them with the purchase of the extra seats.
In this case (if true) obviuosly they couldn't have been bothered...
On board the crew shouldn't have taken it all out on the boy, although the problem shouldn't have got that far, in cases like that you have to deal with it. Either offload him or what I would have done is ask pax to move around so he can have 3 seats at least during the flight. If the first row wasn't fully occupied how hard it would have been to seat him in another seat where he can fit for T/O and LDG and let him sit in row 1 for the rest of the time? Done that before. Although he wasn't in a cast but couldn't bend his knee.
Oh, and what is that crap about "special seating arrangement"???
Anyway, it'll be interesting to find out if this is true...
I'm not a pilot, but this story just caught my eye.
From a LCC cabin crews point of view, regardless whether this story is true or not:
How on earth could he have been strapped upright??? Where???
I cannot think of any spots in a plane where you can do that. Definitely not between seats... Any ideas anyone?Every airline regularly carries people with reduced mobility, of course it is a problem when evacuating, but that is why they always sit "out of the way". Or if they are sitting in as isle seat, then have the accompanying person to sit "inside" and make them aware of the situation should an emergency occur.
He could have bought 3 seats, would have been perfectly fine, but I assume, when they bought the cheap tickets they didn't plan on coming home in a cast... A couple of days before departure you have to pay your pants off for 2 extra seats!!! Don't know how the insurance company deals with this, but the ground stuff should have told them and assisted them with the purchase of the extra seats.
In this case (if true) obviuosly they couldn't have been bothered...
On board the crew shouldn't have taken it all out on the boy, although the problem shouldn't have got that far, in cases like that you have to deal with it. Either offload him or what I would have done is ask pax to move around so he can have 3 seats at least during the flight. If the first row wasn't fully occupied how hard it would have been to seat him in another seat where he can fit for T/O and LDG and let him sit in row 1 for the rest of the time? Done that before. Although he wasn't in a cast but couldn't bend his knee.
Oh, and what is that crap about "special seating arrangement"???
Anyway, it'll be interesting to find out if this is true...
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The Child was Injured - Then why pay for a 2 cent seat home on a budget airline that does not even have reclining seats? Did they not have travel Insurance??? The Child should have been on board an a/c on a stretcher or travelled home by road/rail?
This is a prime example of stupid parents jumping on the ryanair bandwagon, and running to the press as soon as something happenes like this?
Now not only did they get their injured child home for 2 cent but they have most likely made money on the whole situation by selling the story to the press. And I strongly doubt that the child was strapped in somewhere in an upright position for the flight ... this is an unsecure cabin and if it turns out that this happened, the capt. and no. 1 need to answer some q's.
This is a prime example of stupid parents jumping on the ryanair bandwagon, and running to the press as soon as something happenes like this?
Now not only did they get their injured child home for 2 cent but they have most likely made money on the whole situation by selling the story to the press. And I strongly doubt that the child was strapped in somewhere in an upright position for the flight ... this is an unsecure cabin and if it turns out that this happened, the capt. and no. 1 need to answer some q's.