Ryanair again (sorry)
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flybywire,
I am simply taking a word from SXB's post, SXB used the word 'haters' with respect to Ryanair.
Then I asked a series of questions in order to clarify what SXB really means. I can understand people 'disliking' Ryanair, but hate?. I think when that sort of word comes out things are getting nuts and objectivity has gone out of the window.
F3G,
It's horses for courses. I have used FR and EZ on business when it suits me flying in Europe. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. What ryanair have done is provide additional choice, and forced the legacy airlines to compete. I actually think BA's value for money offering in Europe has improved since Ryanair and Easyjet came on the scene, had these new upstarts not arrived then BA would still cut service levels but without cutting fares. Competition is generally good for the consumer.
I am simply taking a word from SXB's post, SXB used the word 'haters' with respect to Ryanair.
Then I asked a series of questions in order to clarify what SXB really means. I can understand people 'disliking' Ryanair, but hate?. I think when that sort of word comes out things are getting nuts and objectivity has gone out of the window.
F3G,
It's horses for courses. I have used FR and EZ on business when it suits me flying in Europe. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. What ryanair have done is provide additional choice, and forced the legacy airlines to compete. I actually think BA's value for money offering in Europe has improved since Ryanair and Easyjet came on the scene, had these new upstarts not arrived then BA would still cut service levels but without cutting fares. Competition is generally good for the consumer.
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final 3 greens
why would you pick EZY over RYR ?
if you were low costing
have you not see the amount of canx flights they
have, I love low cost airlines and would use AB
if the network was better
however having given EZY 3 chances I avoid them
1st flt STN-NCL day trip to visit mum in hospital
aborted landing and turned to MAN
coach to NCL arrived at NCL after my RTN
flt had departed made to pay for another
flight
2nd flt IBZ-STN flight canx missed days work
put on next flt next day
3rd flt PRG-STN delayed 4 hrs got onboard sat for
1 hr then got told to flight was canx
got back to departure lounge only to see
pax for LGW boarding our a/c
now you might not trust what im saying is true
but that was my only flights with EZY im not picking
out the bad ones
and as for RYR I have flown then about 40 time and only
had one problem delayed 1 1/2 hrs out bound to REU
if you were low costing
have you not see the amount of canx flights they
have, I love low cost airlines and would use AB
if the network was better
however having given EZY 3 chances I avoid them
1st flt STN-NCL day trip to visit mum in hospital
aborted landing and turned to MAN
coach to NCL arrived at NCL after my RTN
flt had departed made to pay for another
flight
2nd flt IBZ-STN flight canx missed days work
put on next flt next day
3rd flt PRG-STN delayed 4 hrs got onboard sat for
1 hr then got told to flight was canx
got back to departure lounge only to see
pax for LGW boarding our a/c
now you might not trust what im saying is true
but that was my only flights with EZY im not picking
out the bad ones
and as for RYR I have flown then about 40 time and only
had one problem delayed 1 1/2 hrs out bound to REU
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Slim_slag
You have raised an important point about competition in Europe. It is true that some fares have become more competitive, but this is not just due to Ryanair, as there are many good budget operators who work to much higher standards of service delivery, such as flybe and AirBerlin. The real problem comes as a business traveller, as the cheap fares are not available at short notice.
I have not noticed a reduction in BA fares or any other carrier for that matter, but this is because I book at short notice to travel on business. I have however, noticed a serious reduction in service standards (and seat pitch) in Airlines, including BA whose seat pitch will shortly be the same as Ryanair/EasyJet. My honest opinion, is that Budget airlines have had a negative effect for people travelling on business in Europe. Service standards are being lowered across the board (along with pay and conditions for staff) but business (flexible Y or C) fares are not, in order to effectively subsidise the headline grabbing cheapo fares, sold below cost.
The only people who have benfited from this are the type of leisure travellers who can be extremely flexible on travel dates, and book well ahead. If you fall into that category, you will think budget airlines are great. If you fly on business, and can still remember the high standards of service that previously existed, you may not think so. Competition is great in any industry, but it won't always be beneficial to all segments in the market.
You have raised an important point about competition in Europe. It is true that some fares have become more competitive, but this is not just due to Ryanair, as there are many good budget operators who work to much higher standards of service delivery, such as flybe and AirBerlin. The real problem comes as a business traveller, as the cheap fares are not available at short notice.
I have not noticed a reduction in BA fares or any other carrier for that matter, but this is because I book at short notice to travel on business. I have however, noticed a serious reduction in service standards (and seat pitch) in Airlines, including BA whose seat pitch will shortly be the same as Ryanair/EasyJet. My honest opinion, is that Budget airlines have had a negative effect for people travelling on business in Europe. Service standards are being lowered across the board (along with pay and conditions for staff) but business (flexible Y or C) fares are not, in order to effectively subsidise the headline grabbing cheapo fares, sold below cost.
The only people who have benfited from this are the type of leisure travellers who can be extremely flexible on travel dates, and book well ahead. If you fall into that category, you will think budget airlines are great. If you fly on business, and can still remember the high standards of service that previously existed, you may not think so. Competition is great in any industry, but it won't always be beneficial to all segments in the market.
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10secsurvey,
I'd agree with some of what you say. It was deregulation that allowed competition but that was some time ago now. In the early days BA just ignored this and carryed on as usual. It took an airline like Ryanair years to become a certain size and start kicking BA's ass and only very recently did BA realise it has to compete. Unfortunately BA sat on it's backside for too long and Ryanair was too big, it was no Laker and couldn't be squashed. This was to the benefit of BA passengers, and I thought that was all we cared about on here
So you have brought up prices. If you want to compare fares for BA, FR and EZ at any time on any roughly equivalent route then pick them and I'll run a simple comparison. What I suspect you will find is that FR is significantly cheaper than BA for any period you select, short term or long.
My major memory of flying on short notice in Europe twenty years ago is high prices, not level of service, but I do remember two drink runs and a hot meal on the MAN shuttle. Rather expensive drinks though when you look at the ticket prices.
I'd agree with some of what you say. It was deregulation that allowed competition but that was some time ago now. In the early days BA just ignored this and carryed on as usual. It took an airline like Ryanair years to become a certain size and start kicking BA's ass and only very recently did BA realise it has to compete. Unfortunately BA sat on it's backside for too long and Ryanair was too big, it was no Laker and couldn't be squashed. This was to the benefit of BA passengers, and I thought that was all we cared about on here
So you have brought up prices. If you want to compare fares for BA, FR and EZ at any time on any roughly equivalent route then pick them and I'll run a simple comparison. What I suspect you will find is that FR is significantly cheaper than BA for any period you select, short term or long.
My major memory of flying on short notice in Europe twenty years ago is high prices, not level of service, but I do remember two drink runs and a hot meal on the MAN shuttle. Rather expensive drinks though when you look at the ticket prices.
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Ryanair has a very,very long way to go before it can be like Southwest, and I doubt it would ever want to be like JetBlue (a quality airline). I would so love someone to set up a Jet Blue equivalent in Europe, as I think it would have the effect of pulling up service standards in ALL airlines. Hey, maybe Aer Lingus could be re-born as the JetBlue of Europe??
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Slim_slag
I have not noticed a reduction in BA fares or any other carrier for that matter, but this is because I book at short notice to travel on business. I have however, noticed a serious reduction in service standards (and seat pitch) in Airlines, including BA whose seat pitch will shortly be the same as Ryanair/EasyJet.
I have not noticed a reduction in BA fares or any other carrier for that matter, but this is because I book at short notice to travel on business. I have however, noticed a serious reduction in service standards (and seat pitch) in Airlines, including BA whose seat pitch will shortly be the same as Ryanair/EasyJet.
If people can plan a little bit in advance (same system for every lo-co) BA have reduced their fares incredibly in Europe, just have a look at their website under "planning my trip" then --> "Our low fare routes".Fares start at £25 one way including taxes.
In fact sometimes for me is cheaper to by a normal online ticket with BA than to fly ID90. In may I went to Turin for £69 return, including taxes, I booked 2 weeks early and those were not even the cheapest days to fly. Same days with FR were over £140.
Like F3G I too prefer Easyjet to Ryanair. I have always had a pleasant experience with EZY, all around, despite their modus vivendii is not too distant from FR's. It's just a matter of choice, in my case the choice is highly influenced by precedents.
So I do not "hate" no-frills airlines, I have used them when their schedule was convenient for me. However as a crew, and as a frequent traveller I know what the benefits of a "traditional" airline are and I know that I couldn't do without it for 99% of my flights.
FBW.
PS:F3G it's always great to see that Latin still means something to people nowadays!!
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10secsurvey,
Now that could be an interesting and novel thread, how could Ryanair become a Southwest/Jet Blue and how far away are they?
1) When you get a problem you need real people on the phone who are empowered to immediately solve it for you, within the T&C of course.
2) No longer point to point, transfer baggage and people within the ryanair network, and if a flight gets in late book you on next one at no penalty.
3) Better web based interface to change travel plans.
4) Frequent flier plan, Southwest's is absoultely superb, best in the industry IMO.
That's about it.
The quid pro quo would be higher ticket prices. Southwest and Jet Blue are not anyway near loco in the same way Ryanair is, you don't get anywahere close to the same deals as Ryanair offers. Maybe if given signifiantly higher ticket prices most people prefer Ryanair as it is, who knows, I might be one of them.
For BA to become a southwest would require changes to their corporate culture which would be a lot harder than the above changes to Ryanair, imo.
Now that could be an interesting and novel thread, how could Ryanair become a Southwest/Jet Blue and how far away are they?
1) When you get a problem you need real people on the phone who are empowered to immediately solve it for you, within the T&C of course.
2) No longer point to point, transfer baggage and people within the ryanair network, and if a flight gets in late book you on next one at no penalty.
3) Better web based interface to change travel plans.
4) Frequent flier plan, Southwest's is absoultely superb, best in the industry IMO.
That's about it.
The quid pro quo would be higher ticket prices. Southwest and Jet Blue are not anyway near loco in the same way Ryanair is, you don't get anywahere close to the same deals as Ryanair offers. Maybe if given signifiantly higher ticket prices most people prefer Ryanair as it is, who knows, I might be one of them.
For BA to become a southwest would require changes to their corporate culture which would be a lot harder than the above changes to Ryanair, imo.
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10secsurvey,
If you want to compare fares for BA, FR and EZ at any time on any roughly equivalent route then pick them and I'll run a simple comparison. What I suspect you will find is that FR is significantly cheaper than BA for any period you select, short term or long.
If you want to compare fares for BA, FR and EZ at any time on any roughly equivalent route then pick them and I'll run a simple comparison. What I suspect you will find is that FR is significantly cheaper than BA for any period you select, short term or long.
It's not just the ticket price itself that needs to be considered, in my honest opinion.
Last edited by flybywire; 1st Sep 2006 at 10:40.
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They need to give some kind of consistency to their passengers connecting to and from long haul.
But their new prices have been proven successful, until last year BA's shorthaul was only a feeding network for their long haul routes, now it stands on its own. There must be some kind of success behind this.
I wish FR became like Jetblue, they have far more potential than BA in this field as they were born a low cost and didn't need to adapt their style. Jetblue is by far the best low cost carrier I've ever flown with, everything is better, from the cabin crew to their ground handling, and would fly with them again
Too mean to buy a long personal title
So you have brought up prices. If you want to compare fares for BA, FR and EZ at any time on any roughly equivalent route then pick them and I'll run a simple comparison. What I suspect you will find is that FR is significantly cheaper than BA for any period you select, short term or long.
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daz
This extract from the easyJet T&Cs is why I wouold choose EZY....
. If your flight is cancelled as a result of extraordinary circumstances
If your flight is cancelled as a result of extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even though we took all reasonable steps , including but not limited to:
* Air Traffic Control
* Weather
* Civil unrest
* Terrorist alerts and Security alerts
* Strike Action
* Unexpected flight safety shortcomings
easyJet will not compensate you further other than providing you with one of the following options (“Re-routing and Reimbursement Options”):
You will be entitled to:
1. Re-routing to your final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
2. Re-routing to your final destination at later date at your convenience and subject to availability; or
3. A refund of the fare paid for the journey not made and for the journey already made where the flight no longer serves the purpose of the original travel plan. This refund can be claimed by visiting our website (www.easyJet.com) and completing the online cancelled flight form in the contact us section. Additionally, where relevant, we will offer a return flight to the first point of departure at the earliest available time.
In addition, you will be offered free of charge two telephone calls, or telex or fax messages or emails.
Where you choose to be re-routed at the earliest opportunity:
1. You will be provided with meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to your waiting time; and
2. If an overnight stay is required because the reasonably expected time of departure is at least the day after the time of departure previously announced, easyJet shall offer you hotel accommodation and transport between the airport and the hotel free of charge.
And they deliver on these promises.
Check out Ryanair's T&Cs and you will find...
Ryanair does not provide compensation for flights which are delayed or cancelled for reasons beyond Ryanair's control.
That is very clear and on this forum I have posted several times that Ryanair have laudibly clear T&Cs, but as a FQTV I am aware of the potential for disruption "if you have time to spare, travel by air" and the difference in T&Cs makes it a no brainer for me, since even with travel insurance (which I have), there is still the matter of finding avaialbel hotac when a lot of other people are trying too and then the hassle of arranging ground transport, e.g. have I got enough cash for a taxi.
In effect, I am prepared to pay a premium (since EZY are often more expensive that FR), because I buy based on best value which is a subjective judgement, not lowest cost which is data driven.
However, if you prefer Ryanair and it works for you, then I'm pleased for you.
This extract from the easyJet T&Cs is why I wouold choose EZY....
. If your flight is cancelled as a result of extraordinary circumstances
If your flight is cancelled as a result of extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even though we took all reasonable steps , including but not limited to:
* Air Traffic Control
* Weather
* Civil unrest
* Terrorist alerts and Security alerts
* Strike Action
* Unexpected flight safety shortcomings
easyJet will not compensate you further other than providing you with one of the following options (“Re-routing and Reimbursement Options”):
You will be entitled to:
1. Re-routing to your final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
2. Re-routing to your final destination at later date at your convenience and subject to availability; or
3. A refund of the fare paid for the journey not made and for the journey already made where the flight no longer serves the purpose of the original travel plan. This refund can be claimed by visiting our website (www.easyJet.com) and completing the online cancelled flight form in the contact us section. Additionally, where relevant, we will offer a return flight to the first point of departure at the earliest available time.
In addition, you will be offered free of charge two telephone calls, or telex or fax messages or emails.
Where you choose to be re-routed at the earliest opportunity:
1. You will be provided with meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to your waiting time; and
2. If an overnight stay is required because the reasonably expected time of departure is at least the day after the time of departure previously announced, easyJet shall offer you hotel accommodation and transport between the airport and the hotel free of charge.
And they deliver on these promises.
Check out Ryanair's T&Cs and you will find...
Ryanair does not provide compensation for flights which are delayed or cancelled for reasons beyond Ryanair's control.
That is very clear and on this forum I have posted several times that Ryanair have laudibly clear T&Cs, but as a FQTV I am aware of the potential for disruption "if you have time to spare, travel by air" and the difference in T&Cs makes it a no brainer for me, since even with travel insurance (which I have), there is still the matter of finding avaialbel hotac when a lot of other people are trying too and then the hassle of arranging ground transport, e.g. have I got enough cash for a taxi.
In effect, I am prepared to pay a premium (since EZY are often more expensive that FR), because I buy based on best value which is a subjective judgement, not lowest cost which is data driven.
However, if you prefer Ryanair and it works for you, then I'm pleased for you.
Last edited by Final 3 Greens; 1st Sep 2006 at 10:54.
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Slim_slag
Of all the budget carriers in Europe, I would think Ryanair would be one of the last to make it to equivalence with southwest. Wasn't it just recently, that Southwest took great exception to Ryanair comparing itself to Southwest.
There are many innovative airlines in Europe, good examples are flybe, and AirBerlin. In fact, I stand to be corrected, but I think AirBerlin is becoming very like southwest, much more so than any other European budget carrier.
Of all the budget carriers in Europe, I would think Ryanair would be one of the last to make it to equivalence with southwest. Wasn't it just recently, that Southwest took great exception to Ryanair comparing itself to Southwest.
There are many innovative airlines in Europe, good examples are flybe, and AirBerlin. In fact, I stand to be corrected, but I think AirBerlin is becoming very like southwest, much more so than any other European budget carrier.
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Its all well and good having the fall backs and I would feel that I would need them
more with EZY than with RYR
everyone has a choice and mine was made due the things
that happened to me on my 3 EZY flights
yes I did get compensation from EZY but it was like
getting blood from a stone and not the tax so we are
talking a few £'s not the full cost of the flight
where in 40 flights with RYR I had one bad but not that bad
flight so as far as I see it the best choice for me is RYR
Im lucky that I live near STN and have a large choice
of low cost airline I have used many and would always
look at RYR first and then the others but RYR always comes
out on top for price and dep times and network
I have to say AB would be a good choice but they need
more routes
more with EZY than with RYR
everyone has a choice and mine was made due the things
that happened to me on my 3 EZY flights
yes I did get compensation from EZY but it was like
getting blood from a stone and not the tax so we are
talking a few £'s not the full cost of the flight
where in 40 flights with RYR I had one bad but not that bad
flight so as far as I see it the best choice for me is RYR
Im lucky that I live near STN and have a large choice
of low cost airline I have used many and would always
look at RYR first and then the others but RYR always comes
out on top for price and dep times and network
I have to say AB would be a good choice but they need
more routes
Last edited by daz211; 1st Sep 2006 at 11:41. Reason: as rqstd !
Eight Gun Fighter
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Easyjet charges for second bags
A budget airline is to charge passengers an extra fee for putting a second bag in aircraft holds.
Easyjet said the increased security measures at UK airports was to blame for the move.
It will cost passengers £10 to put additional luggage in the hold on check-in or £5 if paid in advance.
Spokesman Toby Nicholl said: "We've seen in the past three weeks an explosion in the amount of baggage put in holds and it is delaying check-ins."
He added: "We're trying to incentivise passengers to take one bag to reduce delays."
bbc
Is incentivise a real word?
A budget airline is to charge passengers an extra fee for putting a second bag in aircraft holds.
Easyjet said the increased security measures at UK airports was to blame for the move.
It will cost passengers £10 to put additional luggage in the hold on check-in or £5 if paid in advance.
Spokesman Toby Nicholl said: "We've seen in the past three weeks an explosion in the amount of baggage put in holds and it is delaying check-ins."
He added: "We're trying to incentivise passengers to take one bag to reduce delays."
bbc
Is incentivise a real word?
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Re: Easyjet new additional baggage charges
Quote : "We're trying to incentivise passengers to take one bag to reduce delays."
More like, we're trying to make a fast buck whilst the security scare lasts, and dress it up to look like we're helping passengers.
Quote : "We're trying to incentivise passengers to take one bag to reduce delays."
More like, we're trying to make a fast buck whilst the security scare lasts, and dress it up to look like we're helping passengers.
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10sec
I agree that this sounds as if there may be an element of presentation to make it more acceptable, but I wonder what has happened to handling costs and whether this is a cost recovery tactic with delay reduction benefits?
We know that the airlines have been increasing hand luggage allowances and one wonders if their contracts are based on a target number of pieces per flight, with penalties for more? In which case the latest restrictions will be costing the airlines a lot of money, as do delays.
Daz, can you shed any light, without giving away commercial info?
I agree that this sounds as if there may be an element of presentation to make it more acceptable, but I wonder what has happened to handling costs and whether this is a cost recovery tactic with delay reduction benefits?
We know that the airlines have been increasing hand luggage allowances and one wonders if their contracts are based on a target number of pieces per flight, with penalties for more? In which case the latest restrictions will be costing the airlines a lot of money, as do delays.
Daz, can you shed any light, without giving away commercial info?
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Ezy / Ryr
I see today that EZY has canx somemore flights EX-
EZY3076 - OVD
EZY238 - EDI
EZY516 - NCL
EZY3776 - BIO
anyone know why ?
see this is what I was going on about EZY seem to be canx
flights on a daily basis
EZY3076 - OVD
EZY238 - EDI
EZY516 - NCL
EZY3776 - BIO
anyone know why ?
see this is what I was going on about EZY seem to be canx
flights on a daily basis
Too mean to buy a long personal title
I think it's been discussed quite widely on PPRuNe that EZY is having some capacity problems, and there's quite a lot of subbing going on for them as well as canx - a search might throw up some of the threads.