lap tops with new security rules
Sims Fly Virtually
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Used to be 3rd Sand Dune from the Left - But now I'm somewhere else somewhere else.
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not that I can't let my lappy out of my control, but I have several thousand quid's worth of electronics that I must take with me when on holiday (lappy, PDA-phone, etc) as I am often needed to carry on my work when I am away.
Who pays for the replacements if things are "lost" frommy bags while I am not carrying them? Not the airlines ("we tell everyone not to check valuables") Not the insurance companies ("checkng valuables is stoopidand we won't cover your stooopidity") Not the British Government ("we aren't responsible for anything)
I know it's not the airlines' fault, but something has to be done to privide secure transport for the professionals' equipment when they are flying - or they will stop flying whenever possible (at least, where it involves using British airports).
I have a flight UK-USA planned for 2 minths from now and I am wondering how to be sure that my equipment is safe, as well as all of the data on the computer (prices lists, correspondance records etc) that I may need while I am in the USA.
Who pays for the replacements if things are "lost" frommy bags while I am not carrying them? Not the airlines ("we tell everyone not to check valuables") Not the insurance companies ("checkng valuables is stoopidand we won't cover your stooopidity") Not the British Government ("we aren't responsible for anything)
I know it's not the airlines' fault, but something has to be done to privide secure transport for the professionals' equipment when they are flying - or they will stop flying whenever possible (at least, where it involves using British airports).
I have a flight UK-USA planned for 2 minths from now and I am wondering how to be sure that my equipment is safe, as well as all of the data on the computer (prices lists, correspondance records etc) that I may need while I am in the USA.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Those of you who are cancelling or changing flights to avoid the UK are behaving in exactly the way the terrorists had hoped.
You may be right, but I am not a UK resident and do not run a UK business.
Therefore it is up to the UK authorities to sort out their mess, confound the terrorists and then I'll start contributing money via airport taxes and airline ticket costs.
Until then, I'll do what I need to do to protect my business.
You may be right, but I am not a UK resident and do not run a UK business.
Therefore it is up to the UK authorities to sort out their mess, confound the terrorists and then I'll start contributing money via airport taxes and airline ticket costs.
Until then, I'll do what I need to do to protect my business.
Riding the Euro Gravy Plane
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Strasbourg
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ExSimGuy
It isn't actually so to say that an insurance company will not cover expensive items which are stored in the hold.
When I travel everything which I own, whether it's carried on my person or on in the hold is covered by an insurance policy taken out by my employer. This insurance covers theft, loss or injury from the moment my trip starts to the moment it ends. I've only used it once when BA lost my bag , permanently. BA paid out about €600 and the insurance company made up the claim to €3000 which was the true value of the items lost, some of the items were of a reasonably high value, like a €700 digital camera. That said my IT items are not covered by the policy because they are owned by my employer but if they were mine they'd be covered, apparently.
Our insurance company is Chubb, who are based in London I believe. I've no idea how expensive that kind of policy actually is, it also covers our repatriation and risk insurance so I suppose it's expensive and has probably been written for us.
Laptops do get lost or stolen, I've 'lost' 3 in the last 5 years All of my data is backed up and I can always borrow one from our local office when I reach my destination, plus it's not mine so it's no big deal. I've also lost countless mobile phones, the most inconvenient thing being the loss of my contact list, which I also backup nowadays.
It isn't actually so to say that an insurance company will not cover expensive items which are stored in the hold.
When I travel everything which I own, whether it's carried on my person or on in the hold is covered by an insurance policy taken out by my employer. This insurance covers theft, loss or injury from the moment my trip starts to the moment it ends. I've only used it once when BA lost my bag , permanently. BA paid out about €600 and the insurance company made up the claim to €3000 which was the true value of the items lost, some of the items were of a reasonably high value, like a €700 digital camera. That said my IT items are not covered by the policy because they are owned by my employer but if they were mine they'd be covered, apparently.
Our insurance company is Chubb, who are based in London I believe. I've no idea how expensive that kind of policy actually is, it also covers our repatriation and risk insurance so I suppose it's expensive and has probably been written for us.
Laptops do get lost or stolen, I've 'lost' 3 in the last 5 years All of my data is backed up and I can always borrow one from our local office when I reach my destination, plus it's not mine so it's no big deal. I've also lost countless mobile phones, the most inconvenient thing being the loss of my contact list, which I also backup nowadays.
My employer has also cancelled all but critical air travel. That's hundreds of Biz class flights a week. Yes a solution needs to be found, and quickly. but there'a also another knock on effect, and that is that people relalise just how much can be done by video conference etc. Getting these people back in the air may prove to be a struggle.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Office
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let's face it, with current or even previous security arrangements, air travel has become a pain in the backside. I would sooner not fly for work, but do everything by phone, email, video conferencing etc. So once people get the taste of not flying, and once beancounters realise the benefit of not flying people around, air travel for business will not come back to the level it previously was.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SXB, as far as laptops are concerned its not always so much the loss of the physical device or even the consequental loss of use (both of which can often be overcome, although not always easily with appropriate resources). It is often the risk of loss of commercial or confidential data on laptops and in physical documents with which people have to travel, and the "inbuilt" access laptops often have to other systems, that is a challenge. No insurance will deal with those things. The company I work for isn't doing any UK domestic air travel anymore, and some folks next week are doing Eurostar/Air France to get to the USA - that's BA/BDs loss and as indicated here its not an isolated case. These rules WILL f**k up the UK airline industry very quickly.
Andy
Andy
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
film
There's been a lot of mention about laptops, biut what about cameras. Although not a professional, my holidays are geared towards photography, and I use film cameras rather digital. I'm certianly not keen on putting gear in the hold for a couple of reasons, ie it might be stolen or broken and if that happens on the way out, the even if you have insurance, the trip is thne wasted. But more importantly, film cannot be put in the hold as the xrays will damage it. You might as well throw it in the bin. An not every country has film that you can get hold of when you arrive.
I've got a trip planned not too far away and I'm faced with 2 options, eitehr cancel it - wic means that terrorists have won or go and but a digital camera to replace my film equivalent - this will set me back about £4000 to do and this on top of paying £3500 for my holiday is not good. It would still mena putting that gear in the hold......
I've got a trip planned not too far away and I'm faced with 2 options, eitehr cancel it - wic means that terrorists have won or go and but a digital camera to replace my film equivalent - this will set me back about £4000 to do and this on top of paying £3500 for my holiday is not good. It would still mena putting that gear in the hold......
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
spikeair, when I am not travelling on business, I face the same dilemma. I am travelling in four weeks or so and unless the rules change I am cancelling the trip - I have a refundable business class ticket which will be the airline's loss, not mine. There is no way I am checking over £5000 worth of camera equipment in because loss or damage defeats the entire purpose of the trip.
This is starting to hurt airlines for both camera equipment and laptops, and it might just be up to the airlines to apply commercial pressure to align the UK with the rest of the world where electronic equipment is still allowed to be carried on - well done Willie Walsh for already hitting back. After all, if the restrictions are only one way (which they are - ex UK) what's the point - is the government really saying that they want to make it safe to travel out of the UK but its OK for us get blown up on the way back???
Andy
This is starting to hurt airlines for both camera equipment and laptops, and it might just be up to the airlines to apply commercial pressure to align the UK with the rest of the world where electronic equipment is still allowed to be carried on - well done Willie Walsh for already hitting back. After all, if the restrictions are only one way (which they are - ex UK) what's the point - is the government really saying that they want to make it safe to travel out of the UK but its OK for us get blown up on the way back???
Andy
Paxing All Over The World
MarcJF
I don't think that it will be difficult in any way. Before I give my reasons; I have spent 27 years in telecommunications on the customer side. I have been providing facilties for overseas travel since before lap tops existed and when pager's were only just starting to be widely used in this country. Then I have been involved in buying audio and visual conference equipment across some 20 years.
Whatever happens in the short term - in the long term they wil be back. True, some of the local stuff might go to VLJs as Bumz suggests but the long haul is always here. Until ... there is the next worldwide depression and then it is but one of the countless problems.
... people realise just how much can be done by video conference etc. Getting these people back in the air may prove to be a struggle.
- There is only just so much that you can do by A/V conf. If you have established a working relationship with the distant party - then you can move business along. But if you are starting to talk to people for the first time, then you have no choice but to meet face to face, irrespective of whether you are buying or selling.
- Humans rely on far more signals and feedbacks than can be accomplished in even full motion broadcast quality video - for v/c conf, it just does not cut it. It can be used to maintain a business relationship but not to intiate or develop it.
- People LOVE international business travel. They say that it is a drag but many folks only get to do it once or twice a year and they LOVE it. It is a badge of office and a change to their usual schedule. Not to mention that some see it as the best opportunity to be legally away from their spouse, so that they can behave in ways that would otherwise be impossible.
- Frequent Flyer Schemes.
Whatever happens in the short term - in the long term they wil be back. True, some of the local stuff might go to VLJs as Bumz suggests but the long haul is always here. Until ... there is the next worldwide depression and then it is but one of the countless problems.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London,Bucharest...wherever...
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Amazing is'nt it - for 4 years it's been no electrical goods in hold luggage as I understood they dont consider they can be adequately identified/scanned so they go in hand luggage for closer examination as reqd...then overnight apparently completely the opposite!? It's perfectly OK and the better screening option??!!
Yawn...usual over reaction...just awaiting the 'justification' to increase the so called Security Tax/levy which it seems has just been going to bolster the airport operators revenues...
Laughs/chuckles/smiles insincerely
Yawn...usual over reaction...just awaiting the 'justification' to increase the so called Security Tax/levy which it seems has just been going to bolster the airport operators revenues...
Laughs/chuckles/smiles insincerely
Riding the Euro Gravy Plane
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Strasbourg
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Posted by PaxBoy
Oh no ! Looks like we've been rumbled 
Not to mention that some see it as the best opportunity to be legally away from their spouse, so that they can behave in ways that would otherwise be impossible.
Paxing All Over The World
Does anyone know if laptop bags are being tagged Fragile? I plan to put such lables on my 'cabin' bag for this week's TXL trip. But I am doubtful that the overworked staff will be able to respond to anything other than the 'need for speed'.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tea green International
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pax boy, I see a pink elephant, sitting on your laptop
In my experience any fragile tag will attract attention.
However it might assist in the insurance claim.
I am considering a tamper alarm, that sets off a high pitched alarm, if "carry on bag" is interfered with....maplins and other sell them...
Bumz
However it might assist in the insurance claim.
I am considering a tamper alarm, that sets off a high pitched alarm, if "carry on bag" is interfered with....maplins and other sell them...
Bumz
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: An Island near France
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As it stands at the moment this is being enforced on flights between the Channel Islands so if I want to take my laptop to Jersey from Guernsey on a 15 minute Trislander flight I have to put it in hold baggage! Ridiculous!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The bar of the Frog and Peach
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone know to what extent these rules extend to aircraft chartered by companies specifically for their employees? The amount of time wasted in airports to fly scheduled services is bad enough without adding an increased risk of losing company data in laptops left in the care of baggage handlers. Biz jets are starting to look attractive once more.
As for luggage which is required by law to remain with me at all times, I'm so glad I don't have to do those journeys anymore.
As for luggage which is required by law to remain with me at all times, I'm so glad I don't have to do those journeys anymore.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: About 1 mile from WOD ndb
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crossover Point
All security is a trade-off between safety, cost and convenience in the sense of what can be tolerated. In other words, there is an acceptable level of risk that people are prepared to tolerate before the precautions themselves become intolerable.
It seems to me that we have reached the crossover point with the current restrictions on cabin luggage.
The key points revolve around electronic equipment, in particular laptops, mobile phones, PDAs. (Was it really only early last week that a furious debate was going on about the wisdom of allowing/facilitating the in-flight use of mobile phones?)
The simple fact is that business passengers in the 21st century expect to be able to take their laptop into the departure lounge and continue working in a relaxed atmosphere to kill those two hours of "security required" check-in time. They expect the airline to get both their person and their laptop to their destination undamaged. They might like to work on the plane, so they might reasonably expect to take their laptop with them, which also means at least the damage/loss criterion is their own responsibility.
Are we really saying that this is impossible to arrange?
If that is, indeed, what we are saying, then commercial air travel, supported by the premium business passenger, is doomed, at least with its current economic model.
It seems to me that we have reached the crossover point with the current restrictions on cabin luggage.
The key points revolve around electronic equipment, in particular laptops, mobile phones, PDAs. (Was it really only early last week that a furious debate was going on about the wisdom of allowing/facilitating the in-flight use of mobile phones?)
The simple fact is that business passengers in the 21st century expect to be able to take their laptop into the departure lounge and continue working in a relaxed atmosphere to kill those two hours of "security required" check-in time. They expect the airline to get both their person and their laptop to their destination undamaged. They might like to work on the plane, so they might reasonably expect to take their laptop with them, which also means at least the damage/loss criterion is their own responsibility.
Are we really saying that this is impossible to arrange?
If that is, indeed, what we are saying, then commercial air travel, supported by the premium business passenger, is doomed, at least with its current economic model.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: somewere
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry i could only read about 1 page of your moaning about laptops and blaming airlines, GET A HOLD OF YOURSELVES FOR GOD SAKE. Ok your pi$$ed off that you can't take you laptops, mobiles, mp3 bah,bah! We are talking about human lives, i work as crew and have loads of thing taken from me just the same as passengers but i don't give a ****, cause if it means i get home and get to spend another night with my partner then so be it. How would you fell if after all your moaning to airlines about not taking your laptops onboard, another 9/11 happened. I bet you wouldn't give 2 **** about you laptop cause you or someone you know would be afftected by the actions of some idiot. Please have a good think about things and the present situation of the world and think what comes first, your family or you laptop ( which you will only part company for a few hours) I know what i would pick. As to date every passenger i have had has been very understanding and even joking about bussinessmen with holly socks. Pleeeeeese think about your safty and your family
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 3,586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think we have got as far as we can get here, and with the change of rules on hand-baggage announced this morning, it is time to close this thread.
A new thread has been started by BEagle, SECURITY - Revised Uk Rules (14 Aug 2006) and I've made it stick to the forum top for a while: Please continue your discussions there.
A new thread has been started by BEagle, SECURITY - Revised Uk Rules (14 Aug 2006) and I've made it stick to the forum top for a while: Please continue your discussions there.
