Uk Airport Chaos (hand wringing thread)
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah
Cabin crew will have the opportunity to relax in a hand baggage free environment unabused by either business traveller or unkempt parent.
Peace and tranquility will reign in the air.
There is much to look forward to in the flights of the future.
The cabin crew will be able to relax, in the ever growing unemployment line. Their services, along with the pilots, engineers, ticket and counter staff, baggage handlers and most of the airport employees will not be needed. The majority of the passengers these days are the rank and file public, and they do not have to go on vacation.
Please engage brain before typing people!! When the business traveler is kept from working before, during and after the landing, and his/her laptop/pda/phone is stolen from the checked baggage, they will do something else.
When the parents with several kids cannot carry toys to entertain kids on a 10 hour flight or when the rank and file cannot carry a Ipod to listen to music, carry a computer to catch up on email, or have a book to read, they will find another way to travel.
This is a solution but only for those who have other options. Our option is to fix this mess or lose our job/career and I for one do not like the second option.
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finfly1
Yes, it is a good answer, in every way except as Beagle points out.
The same applies to profiling, it can't be implimented in the short term.
Leaving aside, for now, the nothing needs to be done, there have been no better ideas suggested that would work and could be implimented litteraly overnight.
Now moving to the nothing needs to be done argument, I covered that previously, it's un provable, and a big risk to take.Great, if nothing does happen, but very expensive in terms of lives if it does.
Yes, it is a good answer, in every way except as Beagle points out.
The same applies to profiling, it can't be implimented in the short term.
Leaving aside, for now, the nothing needs to be done, there have been no better ideas suggested that would work and could be implimented litteraly overnight.
Now moving to the nothing needs to be done argument, I covered that previously, it's un provable, and a big risk to take.Great, if nothing does happen, but very expensive in terms of lives if it does.
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Almost an intelligent, insult-free discussion. Few more points. I apologize for not have been able to correctly spell authority and variations in my previous posts. I hope that doesn't form a prejudice toward what I said.
Is this really happening? If it is, haven't "you" - as in Security learnt anything?
I understand that a Security Officer having dissenting views on the instruction received is probably unsuited for the job. At the same time, I reclaim the right for anyone to use his own thinking as dictated by experience and continuous proactive approach to the matter. Remember, we are not polemizing with the executors of Security measures, but with the measures themselves.
Yes I do. When travelling for the company, I was often sent to training and customer support within hours notice. I used my laptop on board to familiarize with the issues and not make a fool of myself when I arrive and have to go straight to the meeting. At the time I traveled coach without being any kind of manager. As other have said, having the laptop stolen or broken by baggage handlers would have been unacceptable from a corporate point of view.
Yes I need a mobile, to be used on the plane on ground (when allowed) or immediately upon leaving the airplane. I need it to arrange pick-up, inform colleageus about delay or changed situation, or other important business.
But the thing is that I do not compromise anyone security, and it is at me that you have to look first, then if you don't like my passport and stamps, travelling profile, occupation, race or religion then go ahead and search me and my baggage, plus do it randomly as we are used to accept nowadays.
So we agree to disagree.
I do agree up to a certain point. When Police, Judges or whoever is in power really wants something, they get it. The present situation shows exactly that. To me, it is a comfortable excuse for you to say the Airlines don't allow you to do that, exactly like when the Airline says the Securty doesn't allow us to do that. Typical Aviation fingerpointing. As a collective society, we should stop it now.
Beside, I wouldn't be happy anyway leaving anything of value in the baggage, even if we were to sanitize 100% the staff in Europe and other Western countries, what about when one arrives in a third world country where I and my belongings are always seen as a prey.
Ridiculous. Someone is trying to do the right thing and you blame them because in your opinion, the short and brutal way is more effective. I will never agree.
If you have a problem with how the screening is done by these 'colleagues', albeit civilians, you should build up a fat website denouncing their mistakes and then use your inside information for the benefit of everyone. If you are afraid of loosing your job, do it anonymously, this is 2006 and the Blog rules, if it has valuable information, someone will look at it.
Originally Posted by bjcc
el !
...
While you point out one point of view, there is another, which is that the Seucrity Forces are busy patting each other on the back, and wont be expecting anything further.
...
While you point out one point of view, there is another, which is that the Seucrity Forces are busy patting each other on the back, and wont be expecting anything further.
Again, you are right is saying there is no 100% security. The idea is to make things as secure as possible, while maintaining as much freedom as possible. You are entitled to believe the balance is wrong at present, those on the other side, ie who impliment or are responsible for security may have an opposing view.
Even if you are on your side of the argument, do you NEED your lap top in the cabin? No, you don't.
Do you NEED a mobile? Again, no, as far as I know, you can't use it anyway.
I take your point about your toys and comfort, but does your comfort outweigh everyone elses security?
Which leads onto the issue of searches when going airside. You don't address the issue, it matters not whether I agree with 100% pax checks or not, they are happening (No, not an authoritive statement, a statement of fact) and given they are happening, which in themsleves lead to extra delays, then removing the handbaggage issue doesn't make the situation worse.
You can make all the comment about me siding with the 'rules' all you like, possibly I do. Possibly I don't. I have expressed no opinion on the pax searches or the reasons behind them, what I have done is try to explain what from a different point of view are very sensible porcesses.
You can make all the comment about me siding with the 'rules' all you like, possibly I do. Possibly I don't. I have expressed no opinion on the pax searches or the reasons behind them, what I have done is try to explain what from a different point of view are very sensible porcesses.
Finally, the issue of crime prevention and expensive items in hold luggage, that is a different issue, and one where I will express an opinion. The situation where the contents of your bag can be stolen is unacceptable. There are things that can, and should have been done in the past, and haven't. For that though, you need to blame the airlines themselves, they are the ones who prevent investigation of offences and refuse to impliment arrangements to stamp it out. Oddly, the best one of which is the very thing there is so much hand wringing over on this thread, 100% search of the contents of baggage handlers property when exiting work.
Beside, I wouldn't be happy anyway leaving anything of value in the baggage, even if we were to sanitize 100% the staff in Europe and other Western countries, what about when one arrives in a third world country where I and my belongings are always seen as a prey.
Edit re your edited comment:
I do not believe that profiling is a very reliable way of arranging security. It relies on well trained and motivated staff, something there is a shortage of. The profiling that people like AA and AI run at LHR I never found very reliable, and they were wrong far more often than they were right.(albeit this was in connection with dodgy passports) That form of security costs, and that means it costs Pax, it may be it will be introduced, but I can't see that in the short term.
I do not believe that profiling is a very reliable way of arranging security. It relies on well trained and motivated staff, something there is a shortage of. The profiling that people like AA and AI run at LHR I never found very reliable, and they were wrong far more often than they were right.(albeit this was in connection with dodgy passports) That form of security costs, and that means it costs Pax, it may be it will be introduced, but I can't see that in the short term.
If you have a problem with how the screening is done by these 'colleagues', albeit civilians, you should build up a fat website denouncing their mistakes and then use your inside information for the benefit of everyone. If you are afraid of loosing your job, do it anonymously, this is 2006 and the Blog rules, if it has valuable information, someone will look at it.
Está servira para distraerle.
It all sounds good for the rebirth of the British ship building industry, investment in The Clyde and the re-emergence of Liverpool as a major transport hub.
There'll be plenty of jobs on the new liners which will be built to accomodate those in search of a relaxing holiday. Sea bourne Butlins sounds about right!
Business travellers, whose salary is mostly paid by the poor investor who has to travel in steerage in order to subsidise this hireling in business class, can take advantage of satellite conferencing and create new investment in telecommunications.
Heavens, some daddies might even have more time to spend with their families!
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cavort, finly, bjcc,
So do you advocate hand-baggage free fly travel. Either because you're so disturbed by business travelers, kids looking for their magazines, or you want an easier, more ordered screening at the airport in the name of Security.
Many others, like me, think exactly the opposite. Perhaps that should be decided in an Universal Travel Choice Poll:
Do you accept that:
a) others may do things that you don't like typing or leaving the seat momentarly.
b) you won't be hassled excessively, but there is a risk that someone is bad enough to find a new way to blow you up.
I vote "yes" to the above. In my opinion, is the rest of people that should "find another way to travel". Others, will think just the opposite.
Divide et impera in any case they won.
MechantVenturer: Generalization is always a mistake and one should avoid it as much as possible. But in reality, certain categories, being Police or unrepented Liberals, show a pattern of habits, some are "good", some are "bad", so when these emerges and are remarked in a conversation, there is nothing to get stiff about.
So do you advocate hand-baggage free fly travel. Either because you're so disturbed by business travelers, kids looking for their magazines, or you want an easier, more ordered screening at the airport in the name of Security.
Many others, like me, think exactly the opposite. Perhaps that should be decided in an Universal Travel Choice Poll:
Do you accept that:
a) others may do things that you don't like typing or leaving the seat momentarly.
b) you won't be hassled excessively, but there is a risk that someone is bad enough to find a new way to blow you up.
I vote "yes" to the above. In my opinion, is the rest of people that should "find another way to travel". Others, will think just the opposite.
Divide et impera in any case they won.
MechantVenturer: Generalization is always a mistake and one should avoid it as much as possible. But in reality, certain categories, being Police or unrepented Liberals, show a pattern of habits, some are "good", some are "bad", so when these emerges and are remarked in a conversation, there is nothing to get stiff about.
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Originally Posted by chandlers dad
Please engage brain before typing people!! When the business traveler is kept from working before, during and after the landing, and his/her laptop/pda/phone is stolen from the checked baggage, they will do something else.
They won't be shrugging at the moment - they'll be losing 50+ quid an hour, and even, for example, with ludicrously priced UK rail fares it doesn't take long for the risk calculations to look very simple.
Cheers,
Rich.
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El!
On your first point, regarding security patting each other on the back. You ask, "Is that really happening"
Apparently not no. Which is why we have the current situation.
Your second point. If you had ever had dealings with for example BAA security, you would be aware, they are expressly forbiden to use thier own thinking. They are entirely process driven. Thought is not permitted.
Do you need your laptop? My computer has a button marked 'Print'
Mobiles? You have to wait for your hold baggage anyway, and while doing so, you could use a pay phone. If you really must use your mobile, then wait for it to come out of the baggage shute.
Random searches miss things. Something that stands to reason. 100% searches miss far less.
Baggage thefts. It has nothing to do with Judges or Police. An airport is private property, not a public area. That to an extent limits Police Powers. In any event, it is for the airline to arrange for action such a restriction of what a baggage handler can and cannot take with him airside, and the conditions of search when he goes landside. Most requests from Police to take that sort of action are met with a blanket No. That is then the end of it.
I have no need to use blogs or anything else to denouce a non working method of screening. It doesn't work because there is little training given. Its straight foreward. There is no requirement for that screening, just the policey of the airlines concerned.
The so called inteligent profiling, even if it does work, which I doubt, is reliant on training and experience, something there is a great shortage of. It certainly couldn't be put in place overnight, and probably not for months.
Lastly.
Quote:
"Ridiculous. Someone is trying to do the right thing and you blame them because in your opinion"
Or to put it another way, exactly what you are doing!
On your first point, regarding security patting each other on the back. You ask, "Is that really happening"
Apparently not no. Which is why we have the current situation.
Your second point. If you had ever had dealings with for example BAA security, you would be aware, they are expressly forbiden to use thier own thinking. They are entirely process driven. Thought is not permitted.
Do you need your laptop? My computer has a button marked 'Print'
Mobiles? You have to wait for your hold baggage anyway, and while doing so, you could use a pay phone. If you really must use your mobile, then wait for it to come out of the baggage shute.
Random searches miss things. Something that stands to reason. 100% searches miss far less.
Baggage thefts. It has nothing to do with Judges or Police. An airport is private property, not a public area. That to an extent limits Police Powers. In any event, it is for the airline to arrange for action such a restriction of what a baggage handler can and cannot take with him airside, and the conditions of search when he goes landside. Most requests from Police to take that sort of action are met with a blanket No. That is then the end of it.
I have no need to use blogs or anything else to denouce a non working method of screening. It doesn't work because there is little training given. Its straight foreward. There is no requirement for that screening, just the policey of the airlines concerned.
The so called inteligent profiling, even if it does work, which I doubt, is reliant on training and experience, something there is a great shortage of. It certainly couldn't be put in place overnight, and probably not for months.
Lastly.
Quote:
"Ridiculous. Someone is trying to do the right thing and you blame them because in your opinion"
Or to put it another way, exactly what you are doing!
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bjcc, I said before that you like to have the last word, I got criticized because it is "generalizing", but it is true isn't?
You repeating over and over what you said already, and are defending points that not only in my opinion, are undefendable.
Beside the fact that is a bit pretentious for you to teach how professional should use their laptops and cellphone, I really have a problem accepting your explaination on the issue of fighting crime in Airports. In my country, the fact that an Airport is a private property is of little relevance, as the concession to operate public transport facilities come from the Gov.nt in first place. In fact, Police conducted a major sting against baggage thiefs using hidden cameras. This happened at Malpensa circa 2003. I hope the workers now have learnerd the lesson (wouldn't swear on that).
We learn from a link posted above that the UK Secret Service has secretely wiretapped the homes of the alleged plotters. So when it is about terrorism the Law has special prerogatives and is untouchable, can use suppresive methods (think of the killing of a Brazilian citizen in the Metro). When it is about illegal immigrant the Law has the power to detain indefinitely, when is about drug repression they can conduct impromptu searches.
But for what they see as "petty crimes", under pressure from large companies they can't do anything, does that sound right ?
Then you come again with your opinion that intelligent searches would be ineffective for "lack of training", and you take a swab to Airline employees being able, at most, to spot Passport issues only. That must be a very unimporant thing to your eyes.
The constant whining that comes fro Security forcs in unbelivable and someone is not telling the truth. ASAIK Police get what they need 99% of the times, because they always ask for 200% first.
The 'right' measures should have been put in place since 5 years now, then we find now that these are not working because of the system, in fact you defend the "non-thinking" method in favour of the brute force method. I do not see an inch of critical or constructive approach in what you say. In your words, things are as they are, no plan to change are needed, so everyone stick with the discomfort as long it is imposed, when it will go away we will go back to a bigger risk _plus_ the current hassle. Very smart, thank you.
Well, let me tell you that, as long the Civil Society and their Servants, as long we all as individuals are not thinking, the terrorist will use their sick thinking.
Now to you to take your imprescindible last word. Enjoy it.
You repeating over and over what you said already, and are defending points that not only in my opinion, are undefendable.
Beside the fact that is a bit pretentious for you to teach how professional should use their laptops and cellphone, I really have a problem accepting your explaination on the issue of fighting crime in Airports. In my country, the fact that an Airport is a private property is of little relevance, as the concession to operate public transport facilities come from the Gov.nt in first place. In fact, Police conducted a major sting against baggage thiefs using hidden cameras. This happened at Malpensa circa 2003. I hope the workers now have learnerd the lesson (wouldn't swear on that).
We learn from a link posted above that the UK Secret Service has secretely wiretapped the homes of the alleged plotters. So when it is about terrorism the Law has special prerogatives and is untouchable, can use suppresive methods (think of the killing of a Brazilian citizen in the Metro). When it is about illegal immigrant the Law has the power to detain indefinitely, when is about drug repression they can conduct impromptu searches.
But for what they see as "petty crimes", under pressure from large companies they can't do anything, does that sound right ?
Then you come again with your opinion that intelligent searches would be ineffective for "lack of training", and you take a swab to Airline employees being able, at most, to spot Passport issues only. That must be a very unimporant thing to your eyes.
The constant whining that comes fro Security forcs in unbelivable and someone is not telling the truth. ASAIK Police get what they need 99% of the times, because they always ask for 200% first.
The 'right' measures should have been put in place since 5 years now, then we find now that these are not working because of the system, in fact you defend the "non-thinking" method in favour of the brute force method. I do not see an inch of critical or constructive approach in what you say. In your words, things are as they are, no plan to change are needed, so everyone stick with the discomfort as long it is imposed, when it will go away we will go back to a bigger risk _plus_ the current hassle. Very smart, thank you.
Well, let me tell you that, as long the Civil Society and their Servants, as long we all as individuals are not thinking, the terrorist will use their sick thinking.
Now to you to take your imprescindible last word. Enjoy it.
"Do you need your laptop? My computer has a button marked 'Print'
Mobiles? You have to wait for your hold baggage anyway, and while doing so, you could use a pay phone. If you really must use your mobile, then wait for it to come out of the baggage shute"
God, but you're an utter woodentop arse.
I need my laptop for bespoke software, commercial information, e-mail contacts and for a whole lot more. I need my organiser for a variety of reasons - and I need my car keys. Use a 'pay phone' whilst waiting for my luggage to come out (hopefully) of the 'baggage shute'(sic) - so how does anyone contact me, you idiot?
Get back to pinching kids for riding bikes without lights, or something else your mononeuronic, amoebe-like brain can cope with!
Mobiles? You have to wait for your hold baggage anyway, and while doing so, you could use a pay phone. If you really must use your mobile, then wait for it to come out of the baggage shute"
God, but you're an utter woodentop arse.
I need my laptop for bespoke software, commercial information, e-mail contacts and for a whole lot more. I need my organiser for a variety of reasons - and I need my car keys. Use a 'pay phone' whilst waiting for my luggage to come out (hopefully) of the 'baggage shute'(sic) - so how does anyone contact me, you idiot?
Get back to pinching kids for riding bikes without lights, or something else your mononeuronic, amoebe-like brain can cope with!
Originally Posted by BEagle
[iGet back to pinching kids for riding bikes without lights, or something else your mononeuronic, amoebe-like brain can cope with!
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Originally Posted by bjcc
Mobiles? You have to wait for your hold baggage anyway, and while doing so, you could use a pay phone. If you really must use your mobile, then wait for it to come out of the baggage shute.
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Originally Posted by bjcc
Do you need your laptop? My computer has a button marked 'Print'
Mobiles? You have to wait for your hold baggage anyway, and while doing so, you could use a pay phone.
If you really must use your mobile, then wait for it to come out of the baggage shute.
Baggage thefts. It has nothing to do with Judges or Police. An airport is private property, not a public area. That to an extent limits Police Powers. In any event, it is for the airline to arrange for action such a restriction of what a baggage handler can and cannot take with him airside, and the conditions of search when he goes landside. Most requests from Police to take that sort of action are met with a blanket No. That is then the end of it.
The so called inteligent profiling, even if it does work, which I doubt, is reliant on training and experience, something there is a great shortage of. It certainly couldn't be put in place overnight, and probably not for months.
Mobiles? You have to wait for your hold baggage anyway, and while doing so, you could use a pay phone.
If you really must use your mobile, then wait for it to come out of the baggage shute.
Baggage thefts. It has nothing to do with Judges or Police. An airport is private property, not a public area. That to an extent limits Police Powers. In any event, it is for the airline to arrange for action such a restriction of what a baggage handler can and cannot take with him airside, and the conditions of search when he goes landside. Most requests from Police to take that sort of action are met with a blanket No. That is then the end of it.
The so called inteligent profiling, even if it does work, which I doubt, is reliant on training and experience, something there is a great shortage of. It certainly couldn't be put in place overnight, and probably not for months.
Laptop? Yes, I need it as my company says that I cannot travel without the operation's manual, not to mention data on the operation of the plane, which is contained in the laptop or on a CD that they give me every so often. Even if I could print it out I am not allowed to take it on the plane, not to mention the cockpit at this time.
Use my mobil after it comes down the chute? What do we all do when it does not come "down the chute?" Bag is missing or delayed and so are we. As well I cannot call anyone as my telephone list is not allowed to come on board the plane with me, as a pax or pilot, so once my bag or bags are missing I am standing there with my thumb up my rear?! Also, how are we supposed to use the pay phone even if we had the number to call? We are now not allowed to carry any coins or phone cards with us!? As well, flying from one country to another, even if we could carry coin's or phone cards on our person in the plane, you expect us to carry funds from how many countries just to use the pay phone after landing?
Baggage thefts are EVERYONE'S issue and will become more so in the very near future. One of my flight attendent was not allowed to carry a bag in the cabin recently (heading home, not working) and when she arrived a $5000 watch had been stolen from the bag. Airline is not paying for it, security is not paying for it and she is out for blood or balls, does not care which. Wait until they steal my cell, blackberry and laptop and I will be in the hunt with her.
Which world are you living in? Let me tell you about something in our world. There is a country called Israel and they have an airline called El Al. For some silly reason they have a lot of people (it seems at times just about every Moslem in the world) who want to kill them. Their security people have used profiling for years and are known around the industry as the BEST IN THE WORLD. Please, this is our field of expertise and many of us have lived and worked in this area for decades (almost 4 in my case) and have a pretty good handle on things.
Please stop using your years of experience to find ways to defeat us in our trying to return to as close a normal life as possible. We are flight crew and not your enemy, the terrorists are the enemy. Take your focus off of us and concentrate on them. We would all very much like to see you using your experience in finding ways to make everything work smoother AND safer for everyone involved.
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BEagle
Funny isn't it that you go for the same tired insults when you can't put over a reasoned point. They arn't my rules, like everyone else, I have to put up with them, or find ways round. Or didn't they teach that at Cranwell?
Now, El!
Therein lays the problem, you are in the USA, I am in the UK. The 2 places work under different legislation, and rules. In the case of LHR, it is private property. As such, in many areas although Police have a right of entry, they do not have a right to plant cameras etc without the permission of the airport authority, or if the area is leesed by an airline, that airline.
So, yes, in that case, as with theft on any private property the ability to investigate is limited. Its not pressure from airlines, its the way the Police Service in the Uk are set up.
You mention 'the right mesures', and that they should have been in place years ago. Fine, they were not and obviously are not. That being the case, what do you suggest? You still have not answered that.
Chandlers Dad.
El Al do profile yes, they also use 100% pax search, after the airport authority search. Thats why it takes a great deal longer to check in with them. Also thier staff are trained to profile, and a great deal better at searches than, BAA staff for example. Do you seriously expect the TSA, who most crew on this forum spend so much time telling us are undeducated morons, to do that?
I can understand your desire to return to 'normal' as soon as possible. I wouldn't hold your breath it will happen in the near future though.
Funny isn't it that you go for the same tired insults when you can't put over a reasoned point. They arn't my rules, like everyone else, I have to put up with them, or find ways round. Or didn't they teach that at Cranwell?
Now, El!
Therein lays the problem, you are in the USA, I am in the UK. The 2 places work under different legislation, and rules. In the case of LHR, it is private property. As such, in many areas although Police have a right of entry, they do not have a right to plant cameras etc without the permission of the airport authority, or if the area is leesed by an airline, that airline.
So, yes, in that case, as with theft on any private property the ability to investigate is limited. Its not pressure from airlines, its the way the Police Service in the Uk are set up.
You mention 'the right mesures', and that they should have been in place years ago. Fine, they were not and obviously are not. That being the case, what do you suggest? You still have not answered that.
Chandlers Dad.
El Al do profile yes, they also use 100% pax search, after the airport authority search. Thats why it takes a great deal longer to check in with them. Also thier staff are trained to profile, and a great deal better at searches than, BAA staff for example. Do you seriously expect the TSA, who most crew on this forum spend so much time telling us are undeducated morons, to do that?
I can understand your desire to return to 'normal' as soon as possible. I wouldn't hold your breath it will happen in the near future though.
Last edited by bjcc; 13th Aug 2006 at 19:02.
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Bronx, post #396, well said!
*********
OMG – what an awful thought, but maybe there’s a loophole there…
bjcc…
I think we are at odds over the definition of sustainable. You seem to be inferring it means possible – not the way I interpret it. I’m not saying you are wrong, as meanings and understandings often vary. Maybe http://www.ecifm.reading.ac.uk/definitions.htm will assist in seeing how the understandings differ. My use and understanding would be along the lines of “the high house prices in the SE of England are not sustainable in the long term in view of current salary levels”. hth
I do not think pax (the money supply) are remotely interested in what “authorities would not prefer”. It’s what air travellers would tolerate (and prefer) that matters here. Hence, what will turn out, in the end, to be sustainable.
Concerning what is illegal to possess in whatever jurisdiction, I don’t think this has been questioned by any posters, certainly not by me. I am definitely not in favour of items such as firearms, pepper/cs/mace sprays being on board a plane, and I can’t see posts by anyone suggesting that they are acceptable.
I can’t believe you are seriously saying this is the way forward. Perhaps you could clarify.
Could I politely request that the inflammatory remarks cease? Presumably you are trying to provoke a response in like manner, but you won’t achieve that.
I’m just wondering who wrote post #416.
Please don’t interpret this as a personal attack, it is not. I just find your statements and logic perverse, and from many other posts here I see I am not the only one to find this.
*********
Also, is there any policy applicable to stoma patients (ileostomy, colostomy, etc)? Are they subject to any kind of additional security examination?
bjcc…
Yes, I'm afraid a total ban on hand baggage is sustanable. It's very easy to do… …if for no other reason than the staffing at search areas is not suffiecent to to do both quickly.
thats not to say that airport authorities would not prefer to have a permanant ban on hand baggage, it is certainly something they often talked about in the mid 90's.
Concerning what is illegal to possess in whatever jurisdiction, I don’t think this has been questioned by any posters, certainly not by me. I am definitely not in favour of items such as firearms, pepper/cs/mace sprays being on board a plane, and I can’t see posts by anyone suggesting that they are acceptable.
…the DfT wanted to make the regulations as simple as possible… …Ban everything, then there is no doubt involved
Of course, those like you didn't know the above, and just assume there is no logic to these restrictions.
I’m just wondering who wrote post #416.
Please don’t interpret this as a personal attack, it is not. I just find your statements and logic perverse, and from many other posts here I see I am not the only one to find this.
bjcc, whilst your ex-job as PC Plod was to enforce the rules, it was never to challenge their justification or legitimacy.
Nor do you now seem capable of understanding that the current UK rules are totally unsustainable and will lead to severe commercial injury to the airlines. But hey, 'Befehl ist befehl' and you obviously can't see beyond that.
It's almost dark now, so get out there and pinch those kids for riding their bikes without lights.
Mind how you go.....
Nor do you now seem capable of understanding that the current UK rules are totally unsustainable and will lead to severe commercial injury to the airlines. But hey, 'Befehl ist befehl' and you obviously can't see beyond that.
It's almost dark now, so get out there and pinch those kids for riding their bikes without lights.
Mind how you go.....
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For a better thread, change your settings to get:
This message is hidden because bjcc is on your ignore list.
And a prediction: hand-baggage restrictions relaxed and "only" a liquids ban by the time 1.BLAIR/A MR departs BGI.
Good luck to everyone tomorrow.
Over and out.
And a prediction: hand-baggage restrictions relaxed and "only" a liquids ban by the time 1.BLAIR/A MR departs BGI.
Good luck to everyone tomorrow.
Over and out.
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BEagle
Have you anything inteligent to add?
spork
The question regarding previously prohibited items was asked by EL!.
It's a sad fact that pax do and have always taken(albeit not always intentionally) things that they should not. Like you, I am not in favour of guns, knives etc being on a plane I am on. No, no one has suggested they are acceptable. The point is that without handbaggage none of those can be taken into the cabin.
Sustainable/possible. That depends on which part of this policy you refer too.
I would say that if 100% pax searches remain, then the ban on hand baggage must do so. For no other reason than there are neither the staff, nor the room to be able to cope with checks on hand baggage along with the additional people searches.
It would not suprise me if the ban on hand baggage remains in force, or modified to a minor extent, and the person searches are reduced.
Is that acceptable? To some it would be, to others, it wouldn't. Obviously its not something we will know unless it happens. I would suggest the desire to fly will outweigh the disadvantages.
Have you anything inteligent to add?
spork
The question regarding previously prohibited items was asked by EL!.
It's a sad fact that pax do and have always taken(albeit not always intentionally) things that they should not. Like you, I am not in favour of guns, knives etc being on a plane I am on. No, no one has suggested they are acceptable. The point is that without handbaggage none of those can be taken into the cabin.
Sustainable/possible. That depends on which part of this policy you refer too.
I would say that if 100% pax searches remain, then the ban on hand baggage must do so. For no other reason than there are neither the staff, nor the room to be able to cope with checks on hand baggage along with the additional people searches.
It would not suprise me if the ban on hand baggage remains in force, or modified to a minor extent, and the person searches are reduced.
Is that acceptable? To some it would be, to others, it wouldn't. Obviously its not something we will know unless it happens. I would suggest the desire to fly will outweigh the disadvantages.
"Have you anything inteligent to add?"
Says it all really.
Quick, bjcc, there's another one! He's wearing a loud shirt in a built-up area!
Says it all really.
Quick, bjcc, there's another one! He's wearing a loud shirt in a built-up area!
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Thanks bjcc for your polite response. It's unfortunate that this thread has taken the turn that it has.
I think you should answer the point re “unsustainable”. You seem to be advocating just about anything that will make life easier for airport staff and security staff. Is that really the case? You’re certainly fairly Luddite about us having anything post “hoop and stick” with us.
Maybe we should all be anaesthetised on check in, stripped naked and trussed up on hooks to be slid into place on a shiny stainless steel rail on the plane? How far does your zeal for efficiency go?
Hope M.O’Leary isn’t reading this…
I think you should answer the point re “unsustainable”. You seem to be advocating just about anything that will make life easier for airport staff and security staff. Is that really the case? You’re certainly fairly Luddite about us having anything post “hoop and stick” with us.
Maybe we should all be anaesthetised on check in, stripped naked and trussed up on hooks to be slid into place on a shiny stainless steel rail on the plane? How far does your zeal for efficiency go?
Hope M.O’Leary isn’t reading this…