'Bog' standard Ryanair

[derekvader]

Originally Posted by Globaliser

Like so many of these purported BA/FR price comparisons, this BA "price" is a flat lie.
BA LHR-FCO-LHR for travel 14/18 September is available for £60.00 + £46.30 = £106.30 total.
The lowest FR fare for those dates is £37.98 + £28.77 = £66.75.
So the cash saving, just looking at the tickets, by flying FR is less than £40. Not £440, as daz211 would like to suggest.
The difference between the train fare from Liverpool Street to Stansted and back, and the Tube fare to Heathrow and back, will make a serious inroad into the £40 before you count anything else.

Confirmed, £106.40 with BA.

Fare (A1): BA LONROM NEUNCBA1 fare (rules) £30.00
Fare (A2): BA ROMLON NEUNCBA1 fare (rules) £30.00
Tax: United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge £13.00
Tax: United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty £5.00
Tax: Italian Council City Tax €2.00
Tax: Italian Security Bag Charge €2.05
Tax: Italian Security Charge €1.81
Tax: Italian Embarkation Tax €5.06
Tax: BA YQ surcharge £21.00

Total for 1 adult passenger: £106.40

[daz211]

globaliser

I was just making a point
the prices shown where real

dep LHR 0910 14sep
dep FCO 1155 18sep BA £552.30

dep STN 0840 14sep
dep CIA 1000 18sep FR £113.17

shown are both airlines top fare for that day

[slim_slag]

Originally Posted by Globaliser

Like so many of these purported BA/FR price comparisons, this BA "price" is a flat lie.
The difference between the train fare from Liverpool Street to Stansted and back, and the Tube fare to Heathrow and back, will make a serious inroad into the £40 before you count anything else.

Oh Globaliser, you are so London centric. What about us lot who live in the provinces with huge houses and cheap mortgages and so have a lot more cash in our back pocket to go on these trips.

From my local airport (a 15 minute taxi ride) on those dates Ryanair will charge me approx £50 + £25 = £75 to get to Rome and back.

BA will charge me... er, actually they don't have a service. So for me to enjoy all SXB's anecdotal advantages of BA I have a 3.5 hour slog on the train/tube, or a 3 hour slog on the M1/M25 to Heathrow and their glorious passenger friendly infrastucture. Local airport is nice and modern and from kerbside to gate is generally 10 minutes (haven't tried it recently !!! )

So for you London folk, the tube to Heathrow (I see you didn't compare priices using the HEX) may make loads of sense. Please allow us simple country bumpkins to say Ryanair makes sense for me because they have an extensive network of flights leaving from all over the UK, something that cannot be said about these airlines who choose to operate from fortress heathrow.

And I will have my spreadsheet out shortly to do a proper fare comparison between LON and Rome. Results later

SXB, read the BA T&C's. For that was what I was talking about, not these anecdotal stories. You expect me to choose an airline because of goodwill? HA HA HA!

[SXB]

Slim_slag

I can understand what you're saying about T&C's but my point is that BA will do more for me when I have a problem, sorry about the anecdotes but Carr specifically requested some. In anycase even if I wanted to use RYR I can't because they don't fly to most of the destinations I visit for work plus my employer won't allow me to take them even if they did. My trips are multi sector (at least a total of 4 sometimes 8) and RYR just don't so that.

There is also a world of difference between the trips I do and those like the LHR-FCO example, I'm not hot-footing it to Rome for the weekend for a bit of R&R, I'm travelling all day and then working. When doing this I want a nice big seat that reclines almost all the way, I want an entertainment system with 15 movies, I also want something decent to eat because I won't get anything when I arrive at my destination in the middle of the night, I want my ticket to be completely flexable in case I decide to postpone the trip for a while but most of all I want to be taken care of if things go wrong.

My original point on this thread is that BA and RYR are completely different kinds of airlines and that is true.

[slim_slag]

Nothing wrong with anecdotes SXB, just that when you have a problem the airline is more likely to refer you to their written T&Cs than a nice story on a bulletin board. And the written T&Cs for Ryanair and BA are almost identical when it comes to delay/cancellations. As for whether BA "will do the right thing", perhaps you should post on the BA baggage thread

I also suspect your particular travel is mainly long haul to places FR or EZ don't fly. So it is unfair to compare FR/EZ with eg Club World, you need to compare then with BA European short haul services. BA business class in European short haul doesn't have 15 channels of entertainment, or big seats that recline almost all the way either.

Spreadsheet analysis coming soon...... When looking at BA fares from London, I note that the BA web site claims they also fly 'direct' to Rome from Birmingham and Manchester. Aha I thought, us provincial yokels might find that actually be worth looking into. Then when looking for fares from Birmingham you appear to route via Edinburgh and London. Has BA redefined 'direct' in the same way as it redefined 'enhancement' ???

[SXB]

I also suspect your particular travel is mainly long haul to places FR or EZ don't fly

That's correct, when using BA my flights are normally a minimum of 5 hours. For short haul I normally travel economy (though with a ticket that has some flexability) with LH, Austrian, Swiss or AF.

it is unfair to compare FR/EZ with eg Club World, you need to compare then with BA European short haul services

My point exactly, FR/EZ are just not the same type of airline and when thinking of BA I just think of the whole company and their global product, as when I use them it's always a combination of short haul and long haul because I need to get to LHR to begin my long haul journey.

Getting back to the T&Cs my experience of RYR is that they will do their level best not to meet their obligations, I also find them economical with the truth.

I have nothing against RYR, in fact I think they have opened a whole, new, section of the travel industry. At the end of the day their product just isn't for me.

[slim_slag]

Originally Posted by SXB

Getting back to the T&Cs my experience of RYR is that they will do their level best not to meet their obligations, I also find them economical with the truth

When things go wrong I'd agree with that, and I'd say BA are no different.

[10secondsurvey]

My final say on this, because it's getting tedious. Everyone has a choice, just as everyone has a point of view.

Essentially many here are defending Ryanair by saying the criticisms are based on hear say etc.. Here are some hard facts;

http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/0406/ryanair.html

http://uutiskirje.kuluttajavirasto.f...n_GB/ryanair1/

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=234377


http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/arti...155143,00.html


http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...2/ai_n13464297


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...ixtrvhome.html



http://www.forbrug.dk/english/dco/dc...eases/ryanair/


http://www.oft.gov.uk/News/Press+rel...0/PN+37-00.htm



http://www.rte.ie/pda/business/2006/0406/1087449.html


http://www.thisistravel.co.uk/travel...ticle_id=43251


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/fro...M1RYANAIR.html


http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nach...el-6225488.asp


http://wwa.rte.ie/news/2005/0422/ryanair.html

[angels]

When things go wrong I'd agree with that, and I'd say BA are no different.

Have to disagree. RYR (or rather their handlers) effectively destroyed my son's new suitcase a couple of months ago. You get directed to a phone at STN to report the damage -- not even a human being.

My report of the damage was not greeted with alacrity. When I said the wheels had been torn off the response was that if the handle was still on it he could carry it.

I suppose this attitude works as I've given up trying to get the case replaced. I just can't be arsed banging my head against a brick wall.

When something similar happened to my case when it was in BA's care I was in pocession of a new case within a day.

That said, I'm not a Ryanair basher, but tend to subscribe to the 'you get wat you pay for' brigade. They flew me and the family to Forli with no hassles last year.

[Globaliser]

Originally Posted by slim_slag

So for you London folk, the tube to Heathrow (I see you didn't compare priices using the HEX) may make loads of sense. Please allow us simple country bumpkins to say Ryanair makes sense for me because they have an extensive network of flights leaving from all over the UK, something that cannot be said about these airlines who choose to operate from fortress heathrow.
...
SXB, read the BA T&C's. For that was what I was talking about, not these anecdotal stories. You expect me to choose an airline because of goodwill? HA HA HA!

True: If you live very much closer to one airport than the other, then of course the balance will be different. I myself will also squish into a 146 from LCY to get the convenience advantages over a 320 from LHR.

As for goodwill, I will simply say that I've had my fair share of this from BA. They've cheerfully filled in gaps - at no extra cost to me - which might have cost me much moolah if they'd stuck to the T&C. And that's on top of generally being looked after in all sorts of little ways which make the travel experience much less stressful than it otherwise could be. Very personal experience, but there it is.

[daz211]

angels

im so sorry ryanair damaged you sons bag
but all airlines damage bags and i mean all even BA first class
passengers get damaged bags
and all airlines advise that any damage or loss to baggage
should be reported before leaving the airport
how would any airline know that you didnt damage the bag
putting it into your car or on the bus or train

as i see it a bag is only there to protect what is inside the bag
it is not a fasion item

[Final 3 Greens]

and all airlines advise that any damage or loss to baggage
should be reported before leaving the airport

You stupid b*gger.

The poster was directed to a phone IN THE AIRPORT.

[daz211]

i know this phone well

sorry missed the bit about the phone

this phone is at a security point called VP-9
and is for the use of domestic passengers as the baggage desk is in the
int arrivals hall where domestic passengers cant get to
if the son had flown international he should have reported it before
leaving the baggage hall (international)
however all domestic passengers have no choice but to use this phone
and a damage report would / should have been taken
there is only one problem with this phone and that is staffing
it can somtimes take upto 20 min for staff to become free and
meet you at this point (VP-9) as they may have other passengers they are dealing with
this can sometimes seem silly to the passenger as they can not see what is going on in the int arrivals hall

please note the airline (ryanair) have an handling agent
this agent handles many other airlines not just ryanair
so they can get very busy delays in dealing with problems
for domestic passengers are common

[SXB]

Daz

and all airlines advise that any damage or loss to baggage
should be reported before leaving the airport

I don't quite understand what you're saying - 'loss to baggage' Do you mean items lost from baggage or just baggage lost ? If it's items lost from baggage ie stolen how would you know before you left the airport ? I've never seen anyone open their bag and do an inventory check in the reclaim area. Also, I believe Ryan Air were recently the subect of a successful legal action when a passenger had something stolen from his bag while it was under the care of Ryanair, RYR argued he should have made a claim before he left the airport. The guy in question represented himself while RYR sent down a lawyer, the guy still managed to successfully argue that it was unreasoanble to expect a passenger to check his bag in the reclaim area. The judge, quite rightly, found in favour of the passenger. This is just another example of RYR trying to avoid their obligations.

Last questions Daz, do you work for Ryanair (or a subcontractor) and have you ever taken a flight on BA ?

[CARR30]

£552-30 is the maximum price for this BA trip to Rome

Your shopping basketShopping basket icon
Product Description Price
Flight Flight Departing Heathrow (London), London, Fri 8 September 2006, 1 adult. £552.30 [change]
Total price: £552.30 GBP
Check your flight itinerary details
Flight number From To Class Depart Arrive
Outbound BA0552 Heathrow (London),United Kingdom Fiumicino (Rome),Italy Economy (Traveller) Fri 8 September 2006 ,07:20 Fri 8 September 2006 , 10:40
Inbound BA2541 Fiumicino (Rome),Italy Gatwick (London),United Kingdom Economy (Traveller) Sun 24 September 2006 ,18:15 Sun 24 September 2006 , 19:50
I've checked the price of a future trip to the Languedoc. BA and Ryanair prices to Montpellier are almost identical. If I lived near Gatwick then I would almost certainly buy a BA ticket. I'm sure sitting in the back of a BA plane would no doubt be Burger King to Ryanair's McDonalds.

However the plane ride itself is nothing compared to the hassle of getting to, parking at and passing through airports. Factoring in the Dartford crossing and the gamble of the M25 is what puts me off this alternative to Stansted.

At least we have the choice.

[angels]

daz a 13 year old returning from a school trip to Spain who has a teacher telling him to hurry up is not really going to know that he should have reported the damage airside.

I know about handling agents and their role but my son entrusted his case to Ryanair, they can't just fob it off onto their subcontractors.

I rather suspect that this probably happens a fair bit and that people (like me) give up at the obstructions put in their place. Your description about this bizarre phone is the first of the obstructions.

The time BA replaced my bag I was flying Y, a damaged bag is a damaged bag which ever class you're flying.

[slim_slag]

The subject of BA and Ryanair fares came up again with some claims which need looking at. The claims were made London - ROme - London on 14-18th Sept.

Looking at BA/FR fares from London-Rome-London during the period of 13th Sept to 20th Sept. Figures are prior to addition of claimed taxes/airport charges, to get the rough gross price add £30 to both.

Both airlines have similar frequency of service.

For the 'leisure traveller' who wants to pay as little as possible I took the cheapest fares leaving on each day and calculated all possible round trip prices during that week. This gives an idea of the cheapest fares on each carrier.

Lowest round trip fares possible

Ryanair BA
Highest £59.98 £196.50
Lowest £0.02 £68.50
Average £30.57 £114.43
Median £25.98 £101.50
Mode £25.98 £77.50

So Ryanair's highest possible 'leisure' fare during that week is lower than BA's lowest possible 'leisure' fare.

For the 'business traveller', who we are told has zero flexibility in travel times, I looked at the most expensive fares on each day for the round trip. This gives an idea of the maximum fares you might pay.

Highest fares

Ryanair BA
Highest £179.98 £523.50
Lowest £44.98 £297.50
Average £102.62 £444.53
Median £99.98 £473.50
Mode £59.98 £473.50

So you cannot pay FR more than £179 to fly from London to Rome during that week. Compare that to the possible range of BA fares, their lowest fare for the inflexible traveler is higher than Ryanair's fare for the inflexible traveller.

The modes and medians tell the real story. There are low fares available on both carriers on this route for that week, but BA's are the exception and Ryanair's are the rule. For the 'inflexible' traveller, one wonders whether the recent BA fare cuts actually took place.

angels,

Ryanair got into trouble for this sort of thing years ago and were told to clean up their act by the OFT. If they haven't then I'd let the OFT know and put a claim in via your small claims court. No point in playing with airlines at their game, if they don't play ball then small claims court them.

[Globaliser]

Originally Posted by daz211

im so sorry ryanair damaged you sons bag but all airlines damage bags and i mean all even BA first class passengers get damaged bags and all airlines advise that any damage or loss to baggage should be reported before leaving the airport how would any airline know that you didnt damage the bag putting it into your car or on the bus or train

as i see it a bag is only there to protect what is inside the bag
it is not a fasion item

This is very true: Any airline may damage your bag. But the differentiator is how they deal with the situation.

The last time I changed my main suitcase, it was because of cumulative damage over a number of flights. Most of the incidents did not result in major functional impairment. The notable exception was that BA did break the handle that was needed to pull the bag along on its wheels (it had one pair of wheels on a corner so had to be partially lifted).

I reported the damage to a BA representative at the destination airport and a PIR (or whatever they're called) was filled out immediately. Later, when I'd bought a new suitcase, I wrote to BA and asked whether they might consider making a contribution towards the cost. Not the whole amount, because the damage that they'd done was significant but didn't destroy the suitcase or make it unusable. The amount that they offered - sending a cheque immediately in the reply - was actually more than the original suitcase had cost many years ago.

Needless to say, it was a good investment on BA's part. I know that it might happen again. But I don't worry about what will happen afterwards.

[Globaliser]

Originally Posted by slim_slag

The subject of BA and Ryanair fares came up again with some claims which need looking at. The claims were made London - ROme - London on 14-18th Sept.
...
For the 'business traveller', who we are told has zero flexibility in travel times, I looked at the most expensive fares on each day for the round trip. This gives an idea of the maximum fares you might pay.

What about for the leisure traveller who wants to travel on those days? Many leisure travellers are constrained to travel on specific days. That's the primary way that I work, when buying: What are the lowest fares on the specific dates on which travel needs to be?

In any event, the "claims" are not just claims; your choice of that word and its perjorative overtone is uncalled for. Those are the prices that each airline was asking for on those dates. For the specific dates mentioned, that is the fare difference between FR and BA. One's own choice, of course, as to whether BA is worth paying the extra £40 for. But someone must have taken up BA's offer as the seats at that price on 14 September now seem to have gone.

[slim_slag]

Originally Posted by Globaliser

What about for the leisure traveller who wants to travel on those days? Many leisure travellers are constrained to travel on specific days. That's the primary way that I work, when buying: What are the lowest fares on the specific dates on which travel needs to be?

Just looked at the raw data for people who are constrained in the way you describe. For that period I looked at, on every day you will always get a cheaper fare on Ryanair than BA.
You have to face the facts, when you compare BA and Ryanair on price, BA comes out significantly more expensive. It's your money, spend it as you like.