Thomsonfly B767-200- The most uncomfortable airline??
I can agree with both the above comments.
Yes I know seat spec is down to the customer and not necessarily connected to the airframe manufacturer. And yet there does seem to be a pattern, particularly on widebodies, that Airbus seats are not as good as Boeing ones in the same fleet and same class.
I first noticed this some years ago on Cathay Pacific when using their B744s and A343s on long-haul in Y. The seats appeared less well upholstered, and the seat supporting structures were less convenient and more obstructing for those seated in the row behind.
Narrowbody Airbus should be better as the fuselage has the extra 6" internal cross-section, translated into an extra 1" per seat, but again I find I don't notice that, and when on regular trips recently I compared Aer Lingus A320s with the last of their 737s, the 737 actually seemed to have better seats. Also notable was their older A320s in Y had better seats than the latest one-class ones.
Is it just that Boeings in a fleet tend to be older, when better standards applied at manufacture ? Or do Airbus seats tend to come from European manufacturers like Sigma and are not as well done as the Boeing default from US manufacturers.
Yes I know seat spec is down to the customer and not necessarily connected to the airframe manufacturer. And yet there does seem to be a pattern, particularly on widebodies, that Airbus seats are not as good as Boeing ones in the same fleet and same class.
I first noticed this some years ago on Cathay Pacific when using their B744s and A343s on long-haul in Y. The seats appeared less well upholstered, and the seat supporting structures were less convenient and more obstructing for those seated in the row behind.
Narrowbody Airbus should be better as the fuselage has the extra 6" internal cross-section, translated into an extra 1" per seat, but again I find I don't notice that, and when on regular trips recently I compared Aer Lingus A320s with the last of their 737s, the 737 actually seemed to have better seats. Also notable was their older A320s in Y had better seats than the latest one-class ones.
Is it just that Boeings in a fleet tend to be older, when better standards applied at manufacture ? Or do Airbus seats tend to come from European manufacturers like Sigma and are not as well done as the Boeing default from US manufacturers.
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I personally find the problem is not the seat pitch as such, but the amount of 'intrusion' into my personal space when the seat in front is reclined. I recently flew a 12 hour sector on a European flag carrier (B744 Combi), and I couldn't actually get out of my seat when the occupant in front was reclined. The idea of the 'TGV' seat, borrowed from the French train where the seat base moves rather the the back, meaning that when you recline you use your own space to do it seems welcome, but I imagine it would require extra pitch to accomodate the moving squab.
In short, the golden age of flying is gone, nobody wants to pay the costs anymore, pressure on wages, space etc so less revenue per passenger must mean that more passengers needed per flight to make up the revenue.
In short, the golden age of flying is gone, nobody wants to pay the costs anymore, pressure on wages, space etc so less revenue per passenger must mean that more passengers needed per flight to make up the revenue.
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Must comment on this:
Firstly let me explain that these 2 flights are the first charter jets I`ve flown with. Always use scheduled..
Man (EGCC) to Montego Bay (MKJS) 09/03/06
Thomsonfly 763 Flight No. BY508 10Hrs
Worst aircraft seating and FA`s I`ve ever had the displeasure to fly with, 2-4-2 config and as stated before all the FA`s want to do was sell duty free. They were also discourtious and thought they were doing you a fovor. Food ok , but In my estimation coming around for drinks once every 4 hours is bloody rediculous.
Nothing wrong with the A/C or the Flight crew it was a good flight and the captain and first officers did a good job throughout the flight, No problems.
Return flight same A/C different FA`S slightly better but same with the drinks etc....
Overall crap will not fly with them EVER again Full Stop.
Now,
Flew with FCA First Choice Airways From Man(EGCC) to Mexico (MMUN) 26/04/06 10hrs 50min.
Seating config 2-3-2 (as it should be)
No comparison excellent all the way there and back.
Going to the Bahamas next month flying to US with BA then out with Delta...
Firstly let me explain that these 2 flights are the first charter jets I`ve flown with. Always use scheduled..
Man (EGCC) to Montego Bay (MKJS) 09/03/06
Thomsonfly 763 Flight No. BY508 10Hrs
Worst aircraft seating and FA`s I`ve ever had the displeasure to fly with, 2-4-2 config and as stated before all the FA`s want to do was sell duty free. They were also discourtious and thought they were doing you a fovor. Food ok , but In my estimation coming around for drinks once every 4 hours is bloody rediculous.
Nothing wrong with the A/C or the Flight crew it was a good flight and the captain and first officers did a good job throughout the flight, No problems.
Return flight same A/C different FA`S slightly better but same with the drinks etc....
Overall crap will not fly with them EVER again Full Stop.
Now,
Flew with FCA First Choice Airways From Man(EGCC) to Mexico (MMUN) 26/04/06 10hrs 50min.
Seating config 2-3-2 (as it should be)
No comparison excellent all the way there and back.
Going to the Bahamas next month flying to US with BA then out with Delta...
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Oh Dear!
Just to declare an interest, this is my lot you're talking about, so very sorry to hear that you were not pleased.
Just for curiosity, not as a mod but as humble contributor...
Many thanks in anticipation of your response, and I'm sorry to hear that you were disappointed.
Just for curiosity, not as a mod but as humble contributor...
- You mention that a cabin bar service needs to be offered more frequently than it was. Can you let us know, assuming that you were planning the flight, how frequently the cabin bar service should be offered? i.e. how many times and how frequently? Since the return flight experienced the same problem, on a night sector, your answer would be of interest.
- As a follow up, I assume from reading your post that the scheduled airlines that you customarily use invariably offer more frequent cabin bar services. I wondered which scheduled carriers these might be? So many of them seem to offer a service standard that s little different to that offered by most charter carriers, so it is obviously important that this high level of service is recognised publicly.
Many thanks in anticipation of your response, and I'm sorry to hear that you were disappointed.
TS :
Many long-haul scheduled operators just do a couple of runs with the bar, like before the meal, but in betwen also come through with tea, soft drinks and water, like every couple of hours.
I think the problem with the charter operators is that every drink service is seen as a revenue opportunity (are your crews on commission ?), most of the revenue comes from the alcohol and not the soft drinks, and yet they do not want to be pushing the alcohol too much for fear of getting problems in the cabin with those who cannot hold it.
Many long-haul scheduled operators just do a couple of runs with the bar, like before the meal, but in betwen also come through with tea, soft drinks and water, like every couple of hours.
I think the problem with the charter operators is that every drink service is seen as a revenue opportunity (are your crews on commission ?), most of the revenue comes from the alcohol and not the soft drinks, and yet they do not want to be pushing the alcohol too much for fear of getting problems in the cabin with those who cannot hold it.
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Thanks WHBM
Yes, our crews are on commission, and yes the charter operators see bar services as revenue opportunities. Soft drinks are chargeable on Longhaul, so additional soft drinks services are all grist to the mill.
I'll wait and see how kriss1000 answers, if you're OK with that, since it is unclear whether this is what he wants (he may prefer the option of a full bar service every 2 hours?)
I was also pleased to note that
- Although this must have been tricky to observe from the cabin.
Yes, our crews are on commission, and yes the charter operators see bar services as revenue opportunities. Soft drinks are chargeable on Longhaul, so additional soft drinks services are all grist to the mill.
I'll wait and see how kriss1000 answers, if you're OK with that, since it is unclear whether this is what he wants (he may prefer the option of a full bar service every 2 hours?)
I was also pleased to note that
the captain and first officers did a good job throughout the flight
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No problem i`ll gladly reply,
If we can return to the FCA flight as a non-drinker (alcohol that is) I am a big coffee drinker, one both the outbound day and inbound night flights with FCA I had no problems at all asking the FA`s for coffee this was dished out every time I asked for it, black,white or cappuchino, after a short wait that is, this just didnt happen on Thomson when they eventually got round to asking me they said there was no black coffee just cappuchino????... I had to wait for the meal service before they came with black coffee, to be fair on the return flight an FA male actually made me one.
I understand that headphones, duty free etc are all part of the commercial venture and has to be done. What I would change is the seating config 2-4-2 is not for long haul flights if the 2-3-2 config was impossed then at least an FA could get past the trollies to get you a coffee etc.. They need to desperately reduce the number of Pax.
We travel a lot i`m semi retired and have used most of the flag carrier operators, don`t get me wrong I do not expect to get this kind of service on a charter A/C thats not my point at all, I was merely pointing out the difference between these two charter flights so that any interested pax could take note.
Perhaps it would be more informative if you flew FCA to see the difference for yourself.
Im my opinion best Airline:
1. Singapore Airlines also includes the best FA`s
2. Cathay Pacific
3. Continental Airlines also best food
4. BA
5. AAL
6. Malaysia
Although this must have been tricky to observe from the cabin.
I fly too..
If we can return to the FCA flight as a non-drinker (alcohol that is) I am a big coffee drinker, one both the outbound day and inbound night flights with FCA I had no problems at all asking the FA`s for coffee this was dished out every time I asked for it, black,white or cappuchino, after a short wait that is, this just didnt happen on Thomson when they eventually got round to asking me they said there was no black coffee just cappuchino????... I had to wait for the meal service before they came with black coffee, to be fair on the return flight an FA male actually made me one.
I understand that headphones, duty free etc are all part of the commercial venture and has to be done. What I would change is the seating config 2-4-2 is not for long haul flights if the 2-3-2 config was impossed then at least an FA could get past the trollies to get you a coffee etc.. They need to desperately reduce the number of Pax.
We travel a lot i`m semi retired and have used most of the flag carrier operators, don`t get me wrong I do not expect to get this kind of service on a charter A/C thats not my point at all, I was merely pointing out the difference between these two charter flights so that any interested pax could take note.
Perhaps it would be more informative if you flew FCA to see the difference for yourself.
Im my opinion best Airline:
1. Singapore Airlines also includes the best FA`s
2. Cathay Pacific
3. Continental Airlines also best food
4. BA
5. AAL
6. Malaysia
Although this must have been tricky to observe from the cabin.
I fly too..
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Thanks kriss1000
I've travelled a lot with virtually all the other carriers that you mention, so your feedback is interesting as a comparison to my experiences. I'm aware that Tfly have issues around their longhaul product just now, and that you are not alone in your views: I'm also aware that not all crews are equally diligent in passenger care.
FCA have certainly shaken up the longhaul charter market recently, but their product raises as many questions as it answers. Time, and financial performance, will tell, no doubt.
It's probably unfair and unwise for me to continue posting on this thread under a mod name, so I'll thank you for your thoughts and think on them further before my next longhaul
I've travelled a lot with virtually all the other carriers that you mention, so your feedback is interesting as a comparison to my experiences. I'm aware that Tfly have issues around their longhaul product just now, and that you are not alone in your views: I'm also aware that not all crews are equally diligent in passenger care.
FCA have certainly shaken up the longhaul charter market recently, but their product raises as many questions as it answers. Time, and financial performance, will tell, no doubt.
It's probably unfair and unwise for me to continue posting on this thread under a mod name, so I'll thank you for your thoughts and think on them further before my next longhaul
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I should say (nothing new) that you are getting what you have paid for.
When I'm flying for a holidays to Carribean destinations out of UK I'm always trying to take MyTravel A330 service with premium class 2-3-2 cabin, which is something like old-style J-cabin (no flat beds but reasonably wide and reasonable seat pitch, and I'm a tall guy), and althouth they not doing a bar service every hour I never ever had a problem a press a call button and being served with a smile, or sometimes I just taking my glass and heading to forward galley where FAs are quite happy to refill it and chat about how's life goes. Food is nothing to write home about but still reasonable, and drinks are free. You just need to pay something at a time of a booking.
Saying that when I'm looking on rear cabin on these flights I'm just damn sure I would never go for this cramped, narrow and non-existing leg space in the back. This is all about how much you respect yourself, nothing more and nothing less. As for me if I cannot afford to pay some extra to get a comfortable flight I would rather opt to stay at home. But that's just me.
When I'm flying for a holidays to Carribean destinations out of UK I'm always trying to take MyTravel A330 service with premium class 2-3-2 cabin, which is something like old-style J-cabin (no flat beds but reasonably wide and reasonable seat pitch, and I'm a tall guy), and althouth they not doing a bar service every hour I never ever had a problem a press a call button and being served with a smile, or sometimes I just taking my glass and heading to forward galley where FAs are quite happy to refill it and chat about how's life goes. Food is nothing to write home about but still reasonable, and drinks are free. You just need to pay something at a time of a booking.
Saying that when I'm looking on rear cabin on these flights I'm just damn sure I would never go for this cramped, narrow and non-existing leg space in the back. This is all about how much you respect yourself, nothing more and nothing less. As for me if I cannot afford to pay some extra to get a comfortable flight I would rather opt to stay at home. But that's just me.
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Hi TightSlot,
This i`snt aimed at any tour operator its just a general observation while were on the subject.
If one is paying for a *****+ Hotel where you expect to be pampered ie. Thomson A La Carte of First Choice Premier then surely this should reflect in the flight.
Personally i`m returning to booking the hotel and flights to suit myself, afterall i`m paying them its not the other way round.
This i`snt aimed at any tour operator its just a general observation while were on the subject.
If one is paying for a *****+ Hotel where you expect to be pampered ie. Thomson A La Carte of First Choice Premier then surely this should reflect in the flight.
Personally i`m returning to booking the hotel and flights to suit myself, afterall i`m paying them its not the other way round.
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Thomas Cook have excellent seat Pitch on their 752 fleet, Standard pitch is 35" with leather seats to Boot. Have flown to Canada and European destinations with them and it was incredibly confortable. One to Look at as well as First Choice!
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Originally Posted by Pilotdom
Standard pitch is 35" with leather seats to Boot. Have flown to Canada and European destinations with them and it was incredibly confortable. One to Look at as well as First Choice!
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As far as i know the 35" on Thomas Cook is only on a couple of aircraft which fly dedicated routes to Canada. (i believe for Canadian Affair)
Before i give my opinion about the First Choice product i would like to make clear that this is not a stab at First Choice. I fly for another Charter operater and have been on board the FCA 767. When i was on board i had a chat with the Captain (management pilot) and he told me the following story.
The 767's and interior are payed for by Boeing as part of the 787 deal. The passengers love the product but are not willing to pay more for the service. Hence, FCA is having a hard time to make a profit on these aircraft. They do make a profit on them but not as much as a 767 would in the normal charter configuration. If the market recognizes the advantages of this FCA configuration and is prepared to pay for ti than FCA would continue this in their 787's. However if this is not the case than FCA would choosefor a more conventional charter configuration on their 787's.
Again i would like to stretch to any FCA employee this is not a fight against FCA. I have been on board the 767 and would choose FCA over my own company if i have the choice. The story above is exactly as it was told to me by this management pilot. I hope it all works out for you guys and that in the long term all charter operaters are changing their configuration to the same configuration as currently on the FCA 767's.
For the rest. For most charter company's the tour operater has a big influence in the seating capacity of the aircraft. Within our company everybody wants to reduce the amount of seats but the tour operaters request an aircraft with an X amount of seats. If we decide to remove seats than the tour operater would take their business to another airline and we are out of business. So, you can't always blame the airline.
FT
Before i give my opinion about the First Choice product i would like to make clear that this is not a stab at First Choice. I fly for another Charter operater and have been on board the FCA 767. When i was on board i had a chat with the Captain (management pilot) and he told me the following story.
The 767's and interior are payed for by Boeing as part of the 787 deal. The passengers love the product but are not willing to pay more for the service. Hence, FCA is having a hard time to make a profit on these aircraft. They do make a profit on them but not as much as a 767 would in the normal charter configuration. If the market recognizes the advantages of this FCA configuration and is prepared to pay for ti than FCA would continue this in their 787's. However if this is not the case than FCA would choosefor a more conventional charter configuration on their 787's.
Again i would like to stretch to any FCA employee this is not a fight against FCA. I have been on board the 767 and would choose FCA over my own company if i have the choice. The story above is exactly as it was told to me by this management pilot. I hope it all works out for you guys and that in the long term all charter operaters are changing their configuration to the same configuration as currently on the FCA 767's.
For the rest. For most charter company's the tour operater has a big influence in the seating capacity of the aircraft. Within our company everybody wants to reduce the amount of seats but the tour operaters request an aircraft with an X amount of seats. If we decide to remove seats than the tour operater would take their business to another airline and we are out of business. So, you can't always blame the airline.
FT
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If you think the T-Fly 767 is bad have you ever been on their 757s? They are uncomfortable. With regards to the seat pitch it has never been good but it is not as bad as some other charter carriers especially Monarch. Regarding some of the comments made about the inflight service, I think standards have really dropped since Britannia disappeared. I used to work for Thomson Holidays and I really saw a change in the service offered to customers after the TUI takeover. I flew from DSA to Prague return with Thomsonfly a few months ago on 737 and all I can say is never again. The crew were some of the most rude and miserable ever encountered and the cabin cleanliness and maintenance left a lot to be desired. The flights may well be cheap but do we have to pay extra for a smile? What happened to the TUI smile?
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Hi all,
I think there are only two or three Thomas Cook B757's that are configured with leather seats, which has already been mentioned.
Think the aircraft are G-FCLH and G-FCLK, but not sure.
These aircraft, as mentioned do have fewer seats and are used on the Canada routes from Glasgow, Birmingham, Manchester, etc.
But these two do also operate on the usual sunshine routes, when not on the Canada flights.
But the majority of the B757-200 fleet do not have leather seats and are configured to allow more pax, which equals more seats, which equals a lot less leg room!!
But I still think Thomas Cook Airlines are the second best UK charter airline, after First Choice Airways of course.
Cheers.
I think there are only two or three Thomas Cook B757's that are configured with leather seats, which has already been mentioned.
Think the aircraft are G-FCLH and G-FCLK, but not sure.
These aircraft, as mentioned do have fewer seats and are used on the Canada routes from Glasgow, Birmingham, Manchester, etc.
But these two do also operate on the usual sunshine routes, when not on the Canada flights.
But the majority of the B757-200 fleet do not have leather seats and are configured to allow more pax, which equals more seats, which equals a lot less leg room!!
But I still think Thomas Cook Airlines are the second best UK charter airline, after First Choice Airways of course.
Cheers.
Originally Posted by firstforfirstchoice
.... I still think Thomas Cook Airlines are the second best UK charter airline, after First Choice Airways
